God's Will VS. God's Percieved Will.

It's funny, considering that God is all powerful that pitiful humans beleive they know what he wants better than him.
For instance, if God actually despised abortion, he could stop it. But babies have been getting killed for ages - if it were actually out of the womb, and somebody had hit it with a car, or it had drowned, people would say something like "God had other plans for her/him" but if it's in the womb, it's the work of the devil, and it's just murder - there's no "greater purpose" or "other plan" from God (supposedly).
If God hated sexual immorality, or homosexuality, he could get rid of it, after all he supposedly destroyed whole cities before because of it. So if it's wrong in his eyes, he should feel free to destroy some more cities right?
Maybe his values have changed, maybe he's just stopped caring, perhaps he has more important projects to work on, or perhaps it's just God's will that people will try their darndest to enforce what they believe is God's will, and thus there is no purpose for him to do his own dirty work.
If we were to leave everything up to God and faith in him, why do we have government? Why do we have police or guns and weapons? What is wrong with letting God have his way? What is so wrong with God's will that even the people who believe in it most, must say that the world he has created is so full of evil?
Why is it that people believe that it's wrong for a women to alter "God's design" by getting breast implants, but it's perfectly all right for them to have their son's genitals mutilated as a child? After all if God had wanted circumcision in his design of man, we'd have been born that way right?
What is it that God's believers just don't get? Why must they make up God's mind for him?

Are we baiting the religiously-minded participants with plain logic here??

To quote (or paraphrase) Yogi Berra (sp) "You can tell a lot by just looking"
It's very easy to find all kinds of logical inconsistencies in just about every facet of organised religion. It does not seem to dissuade the faithful from their (IMAO delusional) beliefs.

I expect a religious person would say that God does not want to make up our minds for us about Good and Evil.
Instead He gives us the freedom to make our own mistakes and find our own way to worship him or prove our worth so we can be saved on Judgement day, or go to heaven or whatever other miraculous and unproven fate awaits us after death.

Actually, I'm not saying there isn't God, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the way he created the earth (if he does exist) or the way he runs things, I'm just pointing out that apparently alot of what God "likes" and doesn't "like" is just bunk invented by people who apparently aren't in touch with the reality he has created.

Actually, I'm not saying there isn't God, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the way he created the earth (if he does exist) or the way he runs things, I'm just pointing out that apparently alot of what God "likes" and doesn't "like" is just bunk invented by people who apparently aren't in touch with the reality he has created.
Awww........come on, admit there is no God, you'll feel better!! :grinno:

I do agree with you, but I will take it one step further.
The only suggestion for the existence of God is the word of the faithful, or as you say "bunk invented by people" (an accurate description).
Therefore, if organsied religion allows so many obvious flaws and inconsistencies to exist, such as those you mention, I am inclined to believe that the most fundamental concept of western organised religion - the existence of God - is not true.

I am also saying that no matter how spectacularly inconsistent religious teaching are, the religiously faithful can (and I am sure will) explain away all inconsistencies. How?? Well, one cannot use logic (as you attempt to do) to discredit the fundamental illogic of religion.

It's funny, considering that God is all powerful that pitiful humans beleive they know what he wants better than him.
For instance, if God actually despised abortion, he could stop it. But babies have been getting killed for ages - if it were actually out of the womb, and somebody had hit it with a car, or it had drowned, people would say something like "God had other plans for her/him" but if it's in the womb, it's the work of the devil, and it's just murder - there's no "greater purpose" or "other plan" from God (supposedly).
If God hated sexual immorality, or homosexuality, he could get rid of it, after all he supposedly destroyed whole cities before because of it. So if it's wrong in his eyes, he should feel free to destroy some more cities right?
Maybe his values have changed, maybe he's just stopped caring, perhaps he has more important projects to work on, or perhaps it's just God's will that people will try their darndest to enforce what they believe is God's will, and thus there is no purpose for him to do his own dirty work.
If we were to leave everything up to God and faith in him, why do we have government? Why do we have police or guns and weapons? What is wrong with letting God have his way? What is so wrong with God's will that even the people who believe in it most, must say that the world he has created is so full of evil?
Why is it that people believe that it's wrong for a women to alter "God's design" by getting breast implants, but it's perfectly all right for them to have their son's genitals mutilated as a child? After all if God had wanted circumcision in his design of man, we'd have been born that way right?
What is it that God's believers just don't get? Why must they make up God's mind for him?

Your right. God could put an end to all those things but you forgot one thing. He created man with free will. Its man, who with his own free will, thats commicts those acts. If God were to put an end to it then whats use the use of having free will? Because if God were to truly end all acts he deemed evil, then he would be controlling man.

BTW... this, Support America's dependence on foreign oil - drive an SUV! is absolutly hilarious!

The only suggestion for the existence of God is the word of the faithful
But you're forgetting, that there is no way to dissprove God. You can dissprove, all of the religions (of any God or Gods) because they're all man made, and fictional. But you can't dissprove the idea of a greater being, or "creator" simply because you cannot dissprove, what you cannot prove.
If God were to put an end to it then whats use the use of having free will? Because if God were to truly end all acts he deemed evil, then he would be controlling man.
I don't think you got what it was that I was trying to say. I'm talking about "acts of God" God's will, people will say it's "God's will" whenever something happens, but they won't accept "God's will" when something happens that doesn't agree with them - or rather what they claim should be God's will (though they have no evidence that it is).

He gives us life and thats it. Everything else is up to us.

Well they also talk of a Divine plan. Maybe this is all apart of his plan. He has to have a reason to end the world and the way things are going he might have just found his reason. I dunno.

Freewill.

I get the impression that nobody is actually reading the first post. :)

I get the impression that nobody is actually reading the first post. :)
Happens all the time...

It's funny, considering that God is all powerful that pitiful humans beleive they know what he wants better than him.
For instance, if God actually despised abortion, he could stop it. But babies have been getting killed for ages - if it were actually out of the womb, and somebody had hit it with a car, or it had drowned, people would say something like "God had other plans for her/him" but if it's in the womb, it's the work of the devil, and it's just murder - there's no "greater purpose" or "other plan" from God (supposedly).
If God hated sexual immorality, or homosexuality, he could get rid of it, after all he supposedly destroyed whole cities before because of it. So if it's wrong in his eyes, he should feel free to destroy some more cities right?
Maybe his values have changed, maybe he's just stopped caring, perhaps he has more important projects to work on, or perhaps it's just God's will that people will try their darndest to enforce what they believe is God's will, and thus there is no purpose for him to do his own dirty work.
If we were to leave everything up to God and faith in him, why do we have government? Why do we have police or guns and weapons? What is wrong with letting God have his way? What is so wrong with God's will that even the people who believe in it most, must say that the world he has created is so full of evil?
Why is it that people believe that it's wrong for a women to alter "God's design" by getting breast implants, but it's perfectly all right for them to have their son's genitals mutilated as a child? After all if God had wanted circumcision in his design of man, we'd have been born that way right?
What is it that God's believers just don't get? Why must they make up God's mind for him?

What a good post, and I couldn't agree more with it. I think a lot of the time people are just using God or "God's Will" as an excuse to criticize things that they don't like personally. Like the breast implants, or homosexuality.

like i said. God gave us freewill to do what we want. We are judged after death.

but why would god give us free will? what does it serve him?

I didnt read the whole first post...but i think what you are saying is is that it is retarded that people say "its God's will" or "it was in God's plan"...stuff like that.

But at the same time they can say all these other things are because of us and why can't God stop them.

Well, that is rather confusing I agree and I really don't have a solid answer other than what I believe.

I feel that God does have a plan for our lives, but at the same time knows what we are going to CHOOSE. This is odd and can not be understood...how can God let us choose, but still have free will. I am not sure, but God is not of this "world" or anything like that.

Soooo, I don't think God can be blamed for those things happening, I think that people largely just say that to put the "blame" somewhere. Whereas homosexuality, abortion, suffering, etc. can all be stopped by God, that would be interferring with Free Will.

I am not sure what I accomplished by posting this, but I think it is basically saying that in my opinion, from what I have learned that God is all powerful, gives us free will and does not cause us to suffer.

As for people using Gods will to critize personal dislikes, I think it is false. People are basically just told that "Your life has been decided for you" so they think everything is decided. However, God has still given us the coices to go throughout our day and we still know right from wrong and we still choose one or the other. God may know what we will choose, but we have that choice and he will use it either right then and there or in the future to teach us something.

Although, I am sure that there are times that people "take avantage" of that and simply shove the blame or excuse on God, but that is not the large amount of people, in my opinion.


thanks for listening...i am out.

There is a god!

/thread :)

There is a god!

/thread :)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/868323/thxinfo.jpg

It's funny, considering that God is all powerful that pitiful humans beleive they know what he wants better than him.
For instance, if God actually despised abortion, he could stop it.
Abortion is a choice. We have free will to choose it or not choose it.


But babies have been getting killed for ages - if it were actually out of the womb, and somebody had hit it with a car, or it had drowned, people would say something like "God had other plans for her/him" but if it's in the womb, it's the work of the devil, and it's just murder - there's no "greater purpose" or "other plan" from God (supposedly).

Again; In the womb abortion is a choice someone made. Out of the womb accidents are not a choice to destroy that child. In other words..stuff happens.


If God hated sexual immorality, or homosexuality, he could get rid of it, after all he supposedly destroyed whole cities before because of it. So if it's wrong in his eyes, he should feel free to destroy some more cities right?

Depends on how you believe. Some believe that homosexuality is a choice. Some believe that it's not. God didn't destroy Sodom and Ghamora(sp?) because of homosexuality. He destroyed those places because they completely turned their back on him. There was only 1 family left in those cities who remained Godly.


Maybe his values have changed, maybe he's just stopped caring, perhaps he has more important projects to work on, or perhaps it's just God's will that people will try their darndest to enforce what they believe is God's will, and thus there is no purpose for him to do his own dirty work.

God is the same today as he was yesterday. His plan goes along just as he set it up. Sometimes what we percieve as a change in God may actually be a change in us or just the on going plan he has set in motion from the beginning.

If we were to leave everything up to God and faith in him, why do we have government? Why do we have police or guns and weapons? What is wrong with letting God have his way? What is so wrong with God's will that even the people who believe in it most, must say that the world he has created is so full of evil?

Government is created by people. (free will)
What's wrong with letting God have his way? If everyone believed in God then that would be great. Not everyone believes.

Is the world full of evil? The world is full of people. People choose to be evil. (free will)


Why is it that people believe that it's wrong for a women to alter "God's design" by getting breast implants, but it's perfectly all right for them to have their son's genitals mutilated as a child? After all if God had wanted circumcision in his design of man, we'd have been born that way right?
I don't think it's wrong for women to get implants. Vain maybe but not wrong in and of itself.
The circumsision was originally a sign for being Jewish. It has changed over time by man.


What is it that God's believers just don't get? Why must they make up God's mind for him?

Who is making up Gods mind? We are simply interpreting what we see and applying it to the God we know and trying to see how it may fit into His plan. We may not always interpret correctly but this is a learning process that will never end untill we stand before Him.

Hopefully that answered everything.

Later.

Abortion is a choice. We have free will to choose it or not choose it.

Again; In the womb abortion is a choice someone made. Out of the womb accidents are not a choice to destroy that child. In other words..stuff happens.

Depends on how you believe. Some believe that homosexuality is a choice. Some believe that it's not. God didn't destroy Sodom and Ghamora(sp?) because of homosexuality. He destroyed those places because they completely turned their back on him. There was only 1 family left in those cities who remained Godly.

God is the same today as he was yesterday. His plan goes along just as he set it up. Sometimes what we percieve as a change in God may actually be a change in us or just the on going plan he has set in motion from the beginning.

Government is created by people. (free will)
What's wrong with letting God have his way? If everyone believed in God then that would be great. Not everyone believes.

Is the world full of evil? The world is full of people. People choose to be evil. (free will)

I don't think it's wrong for women to get implants. Vain maybe but not wrong in and of itself.
The circumsision was originally a sign for being Jewish. It has changed over time by man.

Who is making up Gods mind? We are simply interpreting what we see and applying it to the God we know and trying to see how it may fit into His plan. We may not always interpret correctly but this is a learning process that will never end untill we stand before Him.

Hopefully that answered everything.

Later.



Checkmate

Hopefully that answered everything.

Later.

Although I know this answer was thoughtfully considered and did provide an answer to the first post, like I posted earlier in this thread (addressed to 2strokebloke):

I am also saying that no matter how spectacularly inconsistent religious teaching are, the religiously faithful can (and I am sure will) explain away all inconsistencies. How?? Well, one cannot use logic (as you attempt to do) to discredit the fundamental illogic of religion.

Although I know this answer was thoughtfully considered and did provide an answer to the first post, like I posted earlier in this thread (addressed to 2strokebloke):

I am also saying that no matter how spectacularly inconsistent religious teaching are, the religiously faithful can (and I am sure will) explain away all inconsistencies. How?? Well, one cannot use logic (as you attempt to do) to discredit the fundamental illogic of religion.

So you are saying you don't believe so it's not logical. You don't give specifics so I am assuming that in your mind you think all religious teachings are "spectacularly inconsistent". Also you don't point out any particular phrase or explination that I give as illogical or inconsistant so I must assume you belive me to be illogical and inconsistant.

Or....you can't think of a good arguement so you are just repeating the same biggoted statement you made earlier.

We're just not meant to know what is in God's mind and therefore do not know His will. There were some rules handed down to suggest how to behave. You can follow or not, as is your wont.

All I was pointing out it, is that it's rediculous that people will say "it was God's will" when something happens - so long as what had happened doesn't go against their beliefs.
For instance, their child gets hit by a car and dies "God had other plans for him" (in either an effort to ease the pain, or to put some justification to the untimely death) their child grows up to become a pervert - nobody says "that was God's plan for him". :) That's about all I was getting at, nothing about freewill, etc. Just that it's rediculous what people will attribute to God, but nothing they'll give him credit for that they (personally) don't like, though they'll say he has some grand plan for everything.

2 Stroke, you're dead on. People only say "It's God's will" when it suits them.

Very good post 2strokebloke.like i said. God gave us freewill to do what we want. We are judged after death.Than why is it so many on earth are trying to judge others. Their actions, their lifestyles, etc etc. Its all hypicritcal.
The circumsision was originally a sign for being Jewish. It has changed over time by man.True, and wasn't Jesus a jewish man, the son of God. So I guess its okay by God (if he exists).

While most of the first post has gone over some heads, the point of the matter is clear as day. Some folks will only say its Gods' plan when it suits them, and when it is a bad/wrong or tragic event that befalls them they do not say that. Actually most would say "Why God, Why"

While its nice to believe in a greater being, I do not seem how, since there is so much bad stuff that happens to mankind that if I was God seeing my children in such pain I would put a stop to it. Simple as that. But not since the scriptures of old has God actually interfered into our affairs. Its all been our own doing. Our own wars, our own destiny. God has nothing to do with it. Its our belief in such a being that guides us to do the stuff that we do although at times its not the right thing to do. But God itself has not actually done anything. Now personally I belive the the concept of God is mankinds desire to believe that there is something greater than us. And as such, mankind created these laws, fables and good storytelling myths that have continued throughout the ages and handled down into written passages that we consider to be directly from God itself. When in fact its from mans own hand. And as each passage through time, the text gets changed, added and some lost. The Bible has changed so many times by so many people that its almost impossible to say what was the original texted words. And through each change the translation can result in a totally different meaning. Than again maybe it was Gods Will for that to happen. :)

TS out

So you are saying you don't believe so it's not logical. You don't give specifics so I am assuming that in your mind you think all religious teachings are "spectacularly inconsistent". Also you don't point out any particular phrase or explination that I give as illogical or inconsistant so I must assume you belive me to be illogical and inconsistant.

Or....you can't think of a good arguement so you are just repeating the same biggoted statement you made earlier.
Boy, that's quite a mouthful you have attributed to me.

The first post in this thread gave some excellent examples about the logical inconsistencies of religion. Since you are obviously capable of reading, I had assumed you had actually read them and I did not have to repeat them. My point is that those inconsistencies would be further perpetuated by equally illogical posts, such as yours.

You see, while your post you made to answer 'blokes questions was very thoughtful, it relied on the thoroughly illogical concept that there actually IS a God.................which was the point of this thread in the first place.....how can his will exist when his alleged behaviour makes no sense............

Finally I never accused you of being illogical or inconsistent..........just your argument.
I think that you are a very decent fellow; I look forward to your posts, so please do not take anything I say personally.............just because I do find your religious posts to be an amusing torrent of irrationality does not mean they are not worthy of respect. If everyone was as allegedly "bigoted" as me :lol: there would be no pint to this exercise.

All I was pointing out it, is that it's rediculous that people will say "it was God's will" when something happens - so long as what had happened doesn't go against their beliefs.
For instance, their child gets hit by a car and dies "God had other plans for him" (in either an effort to ease the pain, or to put some justification to the untimely death) their child grows up to become a pervert - nobody says "that was God's plan for him". :) That's about all I was getting at, nothing about freewill, etc. Just that it's rediculous what people will attribute to God, but nothing they'll give him credit for that they (personally) don't like, though they'll say he has some grand plan for everything.

I'll agree that some people are like this and suit "God's will/plan" to their needs. As a believer in God and a Christian I simply believe this about the subject.
We have free will to choose, believe, and do whatever we want to. God knows what we're going to choose but doesn't interfer with it. He lets us live with our decesions.
When a woman aborts her baby, IT WAS GOD'S PLAN, even though some will say it isn't and you're going against God's plan. We don't know why some of the stuff happens that happens and probably won't know in this life time.
Maybe that kid that became a pervert, 2stroke talked about, will grow up and turn his life around and be a witness to others like him. That could be the plan God had for him all along, but we wouldn't of seen that in the beginning.
How do you know for sure that some aborted child won't grow up to be the next Hitler?
It's my free will right now to go out and run over the first person I see in my car. I'm not going to but I could because I have the free will to. If I did, how would me running over somebody be a part of God's plan? We don't know and would never know. We don't know God's plan and will never know until this life of ours is long gone and over.

people keep comming back to free will (im not sure why) and have yet to give an explination as to why god would give us a free will. why? what on earth does it do for him?

people keep comming back to free will (im not sure why) and have yet to give an explination as to why god would give us a free will. why? what on earth does it do for him?

God gave us free will because he didn't want us walking around like mindless slaves doing his work. He wanted us to make our own choice and be in control of our destiny.
Some of us choose to believe in him and do what he ask us.
Some of us choose to believe he isn't real and is nothing but a hoax.
He may not like but that's what he wants, for us to make up our own minds and choices.

All I was pointing out it, is that it's rediculous that people will say "it was God's will" when something happens - so long as what had happened doesn't go against their beliefs.

In a way it is all Gods will. If God didn't want it to happen he could intervene. Or he could simply not intervene and let it happen. Either way isn't that Gods will?

For instance, their child gets hit by a car and dies "God had other plans for him" (in either an effort to ease the pain, or to put some justification to the untimely death) their child grows up to become a pervert - nobody says "that was God's plan for him".

Perhaps the plan was for the child to die early. As far as growing up and becomming a pervert then you are right back to that persons choices to become a pervert. I won't attribute it to free will because according to all these post apparently people who don't believe in God also don't believe in free will.


:) That's about all I was getting at, nothing about freewill, etc. Just that it's rediculous what people will attribute to God, but nothing they'll give him credit for that they (personally) don't like, though they'll say he has some grand plan for everything.


God does allow things that I personally don't feel comfortable with and I do question Him. Like when a child get's killed in a car accident. I don't like it that a child dies early buy I know God is in control and have to believe that He knows and sees more than I do. If He didn't then He wouldn't be God would He?

When you are talking about adults and the decisions they make then it is their choice. Is God in control? Yes. Will He stop us from making bad choices? Most of the time no. What's the point if we can't make the choices ourselves and in the end live with the choices we make?
Does that mean God doesn't have a plan for the pervert? No. Does it mean the pervert chose not to be a part of that plan? Yes. But that doesn't mean God is done with him. That pervert can always choose to turn to God. When he does then he starts down the path God has set in motion for his life. He may still have to pay for what he has done before he chose to turn to God but it's better to loose everything here and gain a place in heaven that to do the opposite.

Later.

Boy, that's quite a mouthful you have attributed to me.

The first post in this thread gave some excellent examples about the logical inconsistencies of religion. Since you are obviously capable of reading, I had assumed you had actually read them and I did not have to repeat them. My point is that those inconsistencies would be further perpetuated by equally illogical posts, such as yours.

Illogical to you.

You see, while your post you made to answer 'blokes questions was very thoughtful, it relied on the thoroughly illogical concept that there actually IS a God.................which was the point of this thread in the first place.....how can his will exist when his alleged behaviour makes no sense............

So we are talking about the exhistance of God? I thought we were talking about people attributing things (good or bad) to God. Silly me. Apparently silly everyone else too.

Finally I never accused you of being illogical or inconsistent..........just your argument.

Actually yes you did. My arguement is what I am about in a way. My arguement is about what I believe and what I know. If my arguement is illogical and inconsistent then so am I.

I think that you are a very decent fellow; I look forward to your posts, so please do not take anything I say personally.............just because I do find your religious posts to be an amusing torrent of irrationality does not mean they are not worthy of respect. If everyone was as allegedly "bigoted" as me :lol: there would be no pint to this exercise.

Now if that isn't a back handed compliment then I don't know what is.

people keep comming back to free will (im not sure why) and have yet to give an explination as to why god would give us a free will. why? what on earth does it do for him?

Free will exist whether you believe in God or not. What does it do for God? It gives Him people who choose to follow him and are not just puppets forced to choose Him. Would you rather have your wife love you or just be married to you because ypu somehow made her marry you?

In a way it is all Gods will. If God didn't want it to happen he could intervene. Or he could simply not intervene and let it happen. Either way isn't that Gods will?
So if everything is God's will then, abortion is ok by God right?

what happens to an evil man hapens to a holy man. while on earth, earthly things will happen to you.

"IF" god wanted to controll everything he could. but instead there is free will, what dgb454 has been trying to say.

the things that god controlls....... we will never know. what gods will is, we will never have understanding! as was stated, humans tend to say "it was gods will" to make themselves feel better. when in all reality that might not be the case.

to humans, to die seems to be the end. though as the bible speaks, to die is to be born, in the lords eyes.

life is only the beginning.

So if everything is God's will then, abortion is ok by God right?


Being OK with something is not the same a allowing it to happen.

How can I explain this? Let's say my son wants to try drugs. I can force him to stay home and never go out. This would greatly limit his ability to get into drugs. I can force him to do a lot of things but I don't. The reason I don't is because I want him to make a lot of decisions on his own.
I want him to grow into a mature , responsible person. So because I allow him to make that decision on his own doesn't mean I am OK with it.

I don't know if that helps.

what happens to an evil man hapens to a holy man. while on earth, earthly things will happen to you.

"IF" god wanted to controll everything he could. but instead there is free will, what dgb454 has been trying to say.

the things that god controlls....... we will never know. what gods will is, we will never have understanding! as was stated, humans tend to say "it was gods will" to make themselves feel better. when in all reality that might not be the case.

to humans, to die seems to be the end. though as the bible speaks, to die is to be born, in the lords eyes.

life is only the beginning.

Question.
Do you believe it is possible to understand the nature(or the personality) of God?

I'm not looking for a right or wrong answer. I am just curious as to how you think about it.

Later.

So then, it's safe to say that circumcision is man's will, not Gods, he just doesn't stop us 'cause he likes it when we're stupid. :)

Question.
Do you believe it is possible to understand the nature(or the personality) of God?

I'm not looking for a right or wrong answer. I am just curious as to how you think about it.

Later.

we are like him in many ways. but to understand the nature of him........... No. to somewhat understand his personality, yes, somewhat.

he's funny to me
:iceslolan seriously

so what im getting is: it's god will to allow things like abortions, and gay rights (and eating shrimp for that matter) to happen, not because he likes that we're breaking his "laws" but because he would rather us break his laws, than follow him blindly?

but why? why create a bunch of people, create a bunch of rules, and then say "fine by me if you break these rules."

if god has a "plan" then certainly the breaking of god's laws are a part of god's plan, so jane doe having an abortion is part of gods plan. should jane doe then be punished in the after life for simply participating in gods plan?

im getting wayyyyy off topic, i'll stop now

Excellent questions.
God does have a plan. It's up to us whether we participate (or be a part of it) in it. His plan will continue no matter what we choose. If we choose to be in that plan then that also means getting right with God. If we choose not to be a part of that plan then He won't stop us. Is it fine with him that we don't participate? He isn't happy about it and will try and bring you into that plan but won't force you to be in it. He won't force you to love Him and follow his "rules".

I have a hard time with the whole rules thing. If you choose to be a part of Gods plan then these aren't rules that you have to memorize and follow to the letter. These are just things that are in your nature as a decent human being. Chances are you are already following these "rules" if you are a decent person. Some people may have a different view of what is acceptable behavior but as a Christian those views may change somewhat. Especially as you get to know the "personality" or the mind of God.


Youngvr4:

Thanks for the response.

So then, it's safe to say that circumcision is man's will, not Gods, he just doesn't stop us 'cause he likes it when we're stupid. :)

Well... I guess it's kind of like a tattoo or wearing your hair long or short. Do it or don't do it. What difference does it make?

Originally curcumsission was a sign of being a Jewish man. Why circumsission and not something like getting your right pinky cut off I have no idea. Possibly because it wasn't as evident as something that was in sight by the general public. I'm sure there was a reason but I haven't looked into it. Today Jewish males still have it done for the original reason but those not Jewish do it for an entirely different reason.
Does God like that we do it? My personal opinion is that he probably doesn't care one way or the other.

Being OK with something is not the same a allowing it to happen.

I've heard alot of christians claim that you're either for something or against it. You know, if you see somebody doing something you wouldn't personally do, but you don't stop them or say anything to them, that you're just as guilty as they are? There's no feeling of "it's their life, let them screw it up" so perhaps this opinion (which seems very popular amongst them) isn't shared by their God? I assume that God must in all actuality be much more laid back, and far less vengeful and hateful than alot of people try to make him out to be.
:2cents: :wink:

I've heard alot of christians claim that you're either for something or against it.
True. Most of the time things are either black or white. There isn't as much of a grey area that people like to believe there is. (IMO)

You know, if you see somebody doing something you wouldn't personally do, but you don't stop them or say anything to them, that you're just as guilty as they are?

If someone was hurting someone else then of course I would stop them. If they were about to hurt themselve then I would also try and stop them. If someone was going to do something I thought of as moraly wrong should I stop them? I can try and influence them if I knew them. I can try and influence them even if I don't know them but it's somewhat harder to do that. It's hard to force my own moral values on someone else. Sometimes the best way to lead is by example and not force. When Christ walked the earth I am sure he saw many things he saw a wrong. Sometimes he approached those doing wrong and sometimes he preached against their behavior. Jumping in is not always the best answer.


There's no feeling of "it's their life, let them screw it up" so perhaps this opinion (which seems very popular amongst them) isn't shared by their God?

Actually sometimes there is a feeling of "it's their life, let them screw it up." I am only human and am not perfect. In the case of Christ there is never that feeling. If there was then he wouldn't have died for everyone. He would have only died for a few that he liked or not died at all.

I assume that God must in all actuality be much more laid back, and far less vengeful and hateful than alot of people try to make him out to be.
:2cents: :wink:

Perhaps. I don't see God as vengeful. I know people who do but I think that's their relationship with him. I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing. They have a relationship with him so that's what's important.

The bible explination of this would be going back to adam and eve times. God made a perfect world without any problems, then God made adam and then he made eve out of a rib instead of a smarter bone so she decided to do what God didnt want them to do, which is what women do, so she ate the apple off the forbidden tree, God got pissed and said screw it, if this is how yall are going to be then go to hell for all i care, its in your hands now. Which is where we are today. But in my opinion it is Gods will for us to do what we do. If someone is killed its Gods will, if someone has an abortion its Gods will. If someone believes in God completely and unconditionally then they cant say anything different. Dont get me wrong im not a die hard christian, I have problems with every religion I was just raised Catholic which is why I know these stories out of the bible, because the book of Catholic church stories only has 365 chapters so they have to start back over each year so you hear them too often.

I'm not sure where to begin.

1. What book,chapter and verse is it where the Bible says "he made eve out of a rib instead of a smarter bone " ?

2. Same question for "God got pissed and said screw it, if this is how yall are going to be then go to hell for all i care, its in your hands now" ?

I'm not Catholic so I admit that I am not as familiar with their rendition of the Bible as I am with the version I use but I am pretty sure that all the books I have are for the most part identicle to your version. You do have a few more books in yours that we don't though so maybe they are in those books?

I'm Catholic. I've read the King James version. Trust me - there is no chapter that has God getting pissed. Dissapointed, yes. Pissed, no.













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to me it seems that you are saying that ethics should be thrown out the window because anything God does not want to happen, he would stop it by making sure we could not make decisions

The "smarter bone" thing was me being a pig and saying that men are smarter than women. The "god getting pissed" didnt mean he was furious and started throwing crap around, what i ment was that he wasnt happy with what happened. I just put it into my own words. Dont take everything soo seriously.
Also I dont have a bible handy so I cant give you specifics but these things should be in Genesis.

god doesnt have a will... but we do, and we are using it with great stupidity. The bible and religion have the purpose of controlling people, why you might ask?

Every one of our actions has an effect on our planet.

But we are much too stupid to realize that, aren't we.

As people in this day and age have no control, and do whatever the hell they want, the world is becoming an unhealthy place. Look in the news, its pretty obvious how sick we are becoming. Look at the images on TV, everything pushes harder at the "shock" value. People obsessed with living purely materialistic lifestyles, why is the mall still packed AFTER Christmas? All this is adding up to one MAJOR shitstorm, we all know, but who actually cares?

how can anyone actually have the nerve to sit on their fat-ass and proclaim gods will? fuck you, who do u think u are? You're a nobody just like me, deal with it.

I agree with dirtydx in the fact that we are all just running around until we blow up! Every bit of energy that is used(not just electricity but every reaction on a cellular lever contributes to this) is plunging us closer and closer to entropy! Then the universe gets to be happy and uniform once again.

The "smarter bone" thing was me being a pig and saying that men are smarter than women. The "god getting pissed" didnt mean he was furious and started throwing crap around, what i ment was that he wasnt happy with what happened. I just put it into my own words. Dont take everything soo seriously.

I understand.(laymens terms) Anyway...One thing you said I don't understand. You eluded to the idea that God didn't care anymore and gave up on us. "you can all go to hell for all I care" (something like that).
Is that what you believe?

god doesnt have a will... but we do,

God has a will.


and we are using it with great stupidity.

I agree. We do some pretty stupid things most of the time.

The bible and religion have the purpose of controlling people, why you might ask?

I don't know if that is the purpose of them but a lot of people do let themselves get too controlled by religion. I guess people just want some guidence because they have a hard time sorting out the good from the bad anymore.

Every one of our actions has an effect on our planet.
Totally agree.


But we are much too stupid to realize that, aren't we.

Too stupid or too greedy? I think we know it but don't care because we want that instant satisfaction.(just as you say in the next sentence.)


As people in this day and age have no control, and do whatever the hell they want, the world is becoming an unhealthy place. Look in the news, its pretty obvious how sick we are becoming. Look at the images on TV, everything pushes harder at the "shock" value. People obsessed with living purely materialistic lifestyles, why is the mall still packed AFTER Christmas? All this is adding up to one MAJOR shitstorm, we all know, but who actually cares?

True.



how can anyone actually have the nerve to sit on their fat-ass and proclaim gods will? fuck you, who do u think u are? You're a nobody just like me, deal with it.

1. Are you refering to me or Christians in general? (must be Christians in general because I'm not fat)
2. I am nobody just like you? I am sombody just like you.:smile:

I dont believe that god gave up on us, what i was refering to was how before eve ate the apple everyone would have gone to heaven. However after she ate it then god decided that if you sin you dont go to heaven. Or something along those lines.

1. Are you refering to me or Christians in general? (must be Christians in general because I'm not fat)
2. I am nobody just like you? I am sombody just like you.:smile:

1. Sorry, was a dumb thing to say.
2. I think that if everyone keeps striving to be a somebody, the pain in the world will never end. Somebody wants everything life can offer, somebody wants to be known, somebody wants to push the limit, somebody wants to be immortal. 6 billion people striving for this image is unhealthy in a world where we only need each other.