Serious help...

Alright. I have a lot of money at stake here.

I just went to a local stereo store that I pretty much trust and have been using for about 10 years now.

Here is what they recommended for that XXX 15"
Planet Audio AP500.2 (the one they showed me was rated on paper at 2250W, not sure if the one I listed is the same one) ($750)
200W Alternator ($400)

Pioneer tweeters and Pioneer REV series, 6.5's and 6x9's. The 6.5s were like $300 a pair, I forgot the model and for all of those pioneers, but they were all high end.
1000W 4 channel amp for all of the mids / highs.
They said I wouldn't even hear my mids and highs with this sub if I didn't get a nice front stage setup like this with a 1000W amp powering all of it

4 caps
The box would cost me $300-$400 for 3cf ported @ 28hz

A secondary battery

I'm looking at about $3500. Are they bullshitting me?

I need the help quick because CarDomain has a GREAT deal on these REV series at $84 for a pair of the 6 1/2's and $99 for a pair of the 6x9's.

haha yes absolutely they are bullshitting you.. almosty all local car audio shopes will. I suppose thats just how much they sell stuff for.. but i guarantee you that you can probably knock about a grand off of the price they gave you..

i dont know as much as i should about proces and where to find stuff for the cheapest.. but im sure by tonight a few people will have good suggestions

basically, from the beginning, i dont think many people recommend planet audio amps since theyre made by boss (i think?).. and even if not, 2250 watts is way too much, unless this is a max rating.. if this is RMS it will fry the XXX if any little thing isnt perfect. youre probably going to need more like 1200-1500 rms at the most.
2) i dont knwo that the alternator is necessary.. its probably a good idea but either way i think $400 is a little much
3) if theyre trying to sell you the speakers for 300 why wouldnt you buy them for 100 from car domian?
4) 1000 watts for front stage? way too much.. but again if this is a max rating it might be ok.. tell us which ratings are max and which are rms its a big difference
5) the caps arent necessary. it would be a waste of that money
6) 300-400 for a ported box? thats like 10x the amount for materials.. they must be lookin for a serious profit cause 200 is kinda high even.
7) 2nd battery? maybe... but youre probably better off just replacing the one you have with a yellow top.. i dont know if youll need the second one.

Then why would they lie to me like this? I mean... that's outrageous.

well its not so much lying.. its just the rediculous difference in price from what retail shops sell to what you can find on the internet.. i mean most people here buy stuff like 25-50% off what those shops would sell the smae stuff for just cause the internet is cheap.

as far as the other stuff... caps are reccommneded prolly cause the help keep the current to the subs strong.. but its really nothing that great.. definately not worth one or $200 a piece.. and why not just go with a 4 farad cap rather than four singles? are they trying to squeze every last penny out of you?..the box is so much probably just because they dont want to build it or they just think its a pain in the ass?? i dont know maybe they just figure people dont want to spend time themselves but either way its not worht that much... and finally the amp wattage they reccommended was probably max power... this would make the most sense to me..

The sub is 1600RMS 2500Max.

The sub is 1600RMS 2500Max.
yeah i knew that i was actually asking abotu the amps... which you might not know.. but if you do know the rms ratings gor the amps it would be better cause im just gonna assume those other ratings are max

u can find the rev components for under or around $150 online, and the 6x9 for even less, ebay will probably do it

and do u mean a 200amp alternator?

and i duno about you, but for $3500 i can build whatever the hell kinda system i wanted to, with that kinda money u can do WONDERS

lets say for example...
$300 head unit
$200 decent front components.. maybe even $150
$200 amp for front components
$400 sub
$400 sub amp
$150 for everything else wiring, deadening.. etc etc still under 2k

and well i wouldn't get back speakers, just my preference

What about the power draw from my battery? Let's be realistic here. I have a 110 amp alternator and a piece of shit battery from walmart. Is an Optima Yellowtop really going to do the trick?

Also, as far as component speakres go, how does Pioneer REV's perform? Would Infinity Kappa's or maybe Adire Koda's be better than the Pioneers?

110 amps is alot, what are you talking about. And a Yellow top with 110 amps and uprgraded "magic 3" should be plenty

ask sr20.. hes on an 80 amp alternator with a yellowtop i think and he just upgraded his big three and says he doesnt have a problem with power draw until he turns it up so loud he cant stand to be in the car. and im sure he has 2000 rms easily.. and i dont see you getting much more than about 2000 rms with a good sub amp and speaker amp

The pioneer rev's will give you the best midbass for your money

First of all what are you trying to accomplish? Are you going for sound quality, spl, or just trying to upgrade and get a nice sound?

yea 110 amps is alot, just do the magic 3 or big 3 or whatever u want to call it

if i were you i would also upgrade the battery, optimas are good

i was running 800rms (non class d) on an 80 amp alt with nothing else, it was barely dimming

and just to let u know, i didnt have the rev components, i had the coaxials, but they weren't that impressive, i would choose the kodas over them any day (just out of pure hype!) and the infinities would be better, i was considering either the kappas or the revs, and got the revs because it cost less lol

also the pioneers have weak power handling, but they can take a lil more than it states, i was running around 90rms into the 60rms speaker for a long time

kodas will definitely do the trick, the RE comps should be pretty good also

also in the case that u do go for the pioneers, the rev series (or the higher series which isn't sold in the US) should be the only pioneers u get, the ones below that imo are pure trash

I take it the XXX comp set wouldn't even fit in my doors. So I should go with the RE comp set.

I take it the XXX comp set wouldn't even fit in my doors. So I should go with the RE comp set.

the xxx set is kinda pricey imo, but the way i see it, i can make any speaker fit in my door with enough fabrication

because i went from stock.. like 1.5 inch depth, with a stock bracket that would only allow that speaker..

to my cdt's now which almost have a 3 inch depth, and the width of the magnet is HUGE, but hey i still got it to fit

Haha. Anything can fit with the proper buturing. I don't mind for one second buturing my doors to make something like that fit either. I'm just so new to advanced installation and seriouis audio that I need all the help I can get. If the price is right, the XXX comp set will be what I get for components. If it becomes a money issue for me, I'll get the RE comp set. I want to go all RE except for the amps. I'll probably go eD nine.2 for the components and cadence zrs-8 for the sub.

Subwoofer Setup
RE XXX 15"
Cadence ZRS-8

Component Setup
Choice I
RE XXX Comp
eD NiNE.2
Choice II
RE Comp
eD NiNE.2

Enclosure
Self built ported enclosure. 3CF, ported @ 28hz.

Miscellaneous Work and Upgrades
Optima Yellowtop with Magic 3 upgrade
Possibly a larger alternator if I get problems after all of this is installed.


As far as wiring schematics go for it all, is there somewhere I can go to read up on it all? Searching this forum sucks. I never find what I need, so if there is a link to a site or if somebody wants to put forth the effort to type this out for me, how would I wire all of this.

wire what? everything????

Basically, wiring schematics for the subwoofer mostly and when I do the components... just unhook all the stock ones, and hook up the RE's? I don't have to do anything special for the components? I want to power them with an amp. I've never done anything like that before with component speakers.

I think that you should get a brahma 15 instead of an xxx. Brahmas are MUCH more efficient and won't need the 2kw+ like the xxx to get full ouput. Then all you would need is big 3 wiring done and you wouldn't have to get a buncha batteries and new alt.....ect.... a b15 in 3cuft ported would prolly only need somethin like a nine.1 to get full output.

with 3500 dollars, don't waste your time with components and rear speakers, go 3 way up front, that includes pair of midbass(usually 8's or 7's), pair of mid-ranges(usually 3's or 4's), and a pair of tweeters. and then get a nice 12 or 15. since you are looking at shops to install your system, i'm probly wasting my time, but its just a suggestion, and you will be able to blow away pretty much anyone in terms of sq.

No, I'm not looking at shops to install the system. I just went up there to see how much they would charge for a box because I didn't want to build it. But they tried to rip me off, so I'm doing everything on my own. I'm still going for the XXX, but SR20 said the ZRS-8 will be enough for it. If needed, I will go for the ZRS-9 for 2000W.

Dude I'm tellin u it will save u a lot of money to not have to upgrade ur electrical so keep it arouns 1200 watts and your not gunna get full ouput off a xxx from that.

Well, let's talk about the brahma then. Can it hit hard when I want it to? I know it has outstanding SQ, but what about SPL? I'm still settled on the XXX15. I can go with the ZRS-8 and not have to mess with any electrical stuff too seriously other than the magic 3 upgrade and goto a yellowtop. Later on down the road when I have more money I can upgrade to a larger alternator and a larger amp and sell off the ZRS-8. But I really want this XXX for future upgrades to this project. I don't mind spending $2,000 for the sound setup and the electrical upgrades to go with it.

the brahma is pretty much equal to the XXX, and if you got the money, 3 way is definitly the way to go......

Unless u got 2500 watts and one hella good electrical system then u don't wanna go w/ the xxx.

I'm sold I suppose. I'm looking into ordering this Monday or Tuesday of next week.

im sure youll be just as happy with the brahma.. from what ive heard theyre pretty equal.. the XXX probably has a little more SPL but like bumpinstang said youll need a ton of power before youll get that output.. and theres no sense spend all that money for what will probably only be like 2 dbs or somethin

what happend to haibane? wasnt he running a XXX off of a nine.1?

yeah i was just going to ask where he went.. anyways im sure it sounded great with a nine.1 but if you wanted to get a better idea of what that sub is capable of it would take much more than the 1400 watts or so the nine.1 would put out... you would still get great bass though dont get me wrong

1200 watts do not even touch xxx's even in big boxes.

Basically, wiring schematics for the subwoofer mostly and when I do the components... just unhook all the stock ones, and hook up the RE's? I don't have to do anything special for the components? I want to power them with an amp. I've never done anything like that before with component speakers.

nah you don't need any schematics.. well maybe for the subwoofer, just hit up rockfordfosgate.com or jbl or any site's technical section and they'll have wiring diagrams where u can input the ohms n such

as for the components, once you open the set you'll know

Thanks for all the help and advice everyone.

New sound system specifications:

Sub Stage:
Adire Brahma Mark II 15"
Cadence ZRS-8

Front Stage:
Apparently I just recently found out the doors fit 5 1/4 and I have no clue how I would get 6.5's to fit unless I purchase a $120 kick panel. So I need a few suggestions on what to get for 2 tweeters at the A pillar, 4 5 1/4's, 2 fours behind the backseat headrests and what looks like 2 6x9's behind the backseat headrests. The 6x9's and the 4's are in a bypass (?) wiring schematic with eachother. I think the 6x9's are handling the lows/mids and the 4's are handling mids/highs (something like that).

The stock setup alone sounds extremely good for a factory setup. It hits all ranges of sound nicely, even with the cheap paper coned speakers which are dry rotted. I just replaced one of the 5 1/4's because it was blown. Went to walmart and bought a cheap $40 pair of Pioneer 2 way 5 1/4's until I get a fully upgraded front stage setup which will be in the next 2 months. So I bought something I won't feel bad about throwing away.

Would something like this be worth my time:
http://www.speedsound.com/caraudio.asp?pg=products&specific=jnqnhro0
I can't figure this out, but does this package come with just ONE 5 1/4 and ONE tweeter? If so, then I'm saying hell no to it.

How much is a Cadence? more money than to just stack 2 nine 1's?

just get a nine.1

please stay away from infinity for your own good, and unless you're on a budget, pioneer as well.

the xxx comps can't go in doors, even if you could get them to physically fit, they're not meant to run IB, they need a sealed enclosure to perform how they were meant to

if you're absolutely positive you can't fit 6.5s in your doors (is cutting/dremeling an option?), then I think the best choice would be the ID chameleon 5.25's. You might need rear fill too to get any kind of midbass output since you'll only have 5.25 in front, but I would wait on that until after you have fronts. If you find that you do need more midbass, just go for a set of bandpassed midbasses in the rear (adire, id, vifa, peerless, etc), don't bother with a full set of components/coaxs, they'll just hurt your sound more than they'll help.

RE re did the xxx set and put a stiffer spider on them and although they perform better in an enclosure they can be ran in IB now.

really?
well that's news to me

still has a 4" mounting depth though :(

yea i called them up about a month ago when i was researching a buncha comps and was askin about reccomended enclosures and stuff and was like i really wish they could run IB and the guy said they redesigned them a little bit and they can now but they still work a lot better in an enclosure.

really?
well that's news to me

still has a 4" mounting depth though :(

The way my speakers mount in the front doors is weird. It protudes out by about 1 - 2 inches at an angle.

And given my situation, do you agree with stang's suggestion, going brahma over XXX?

Oh yeah, how loud does your brahma get in the sealed box, SR20? Does it still hit hard?

well since "loud" is subjective, it's hard for me to describe for you how loud it gets. It's loud enough to be painful, shake the car apart, flex all the body panels (all 4 doors and the roof) about .25" peak to peak, and dim the lights significantly (still need to get a new battery....). It's plenty loud for me

it should go pretty low also, good thing he stuck with a sealed box

I was watching videos of the brahmas on the adire site and I was seriously impressed. I'm convinced to go sealed, my car can't take the beating the brahma would give it in a ported box.

So your thinkin a single brahma 15? For sealed you will want to be 2.5-2.85 cuft. without polyfill. 2.85 will be a .707 alignment in car though u can have a slightly higher qtc. As far as amps go you need 800 watts to get full output in a 2.85 cuft. 1200 watts in 1.9 cuft.

What would be the difference in between the box sizes? Loundess, SQ?

the smaller the box the further up in the freq. range that the box will peak and the less even it will sound.....the bigger the box the lower it peaks in freq. range and the flatter it gets. .707 is considered to be flat in home so in car u can do a little higher qtc.

go for around 2-2.5cf sealed, I have mine in 2.5cf and it sounds great, but with that much power you could go a little smaller without much of an effect.

Just remember the smaller you go the more bottom end your sacrificing, what kind of music do you listen to? Most rock won't hit those real deep notes, but if you listen to a lot of rap (most rap gets prett deep) you will defiantely want to keep the box volume a little bigger.

yeah, the low end shouldn't be a problem with anything over 2cf though. With mine in 2.5 it stays bone flat into the teens, and the only reason it drops off after that is because my amp has a ssf that can't be defeated, and the lowest you can have it set (and where mine is set) is 15hz.

I figured it would drop off below 2.5, but haven't played with it. Build size according to how many watts you have. 2 cubes for around 1200 2.85 for 800.

I listen to blues, rap, techno, rock, country. You name it It's on a cd in my car. So my setup will be probably identical to sr20's. I wanted that XXX but it's not cost efficient and I'm not a millionaire.

yea 2.5 will be good if you listen to a mix of stuff. Make sure you account for displacement.