Wicked Mods

Hey yall, i'm new here. Just thought i would get some new ideas. First off. can i get an lsd anywhere for my 84 944? Second, whats the cheapest route i can go to drop an 8 cylinder into my car. Wat kinds of engines can i go with. I know about the ls1 but i dont know what it costs. Any info would help. Thanks

S.Rivers#33

Buy a mustange if you want a V8-don't molest a 944

I agree with the statement above.

i agree too, only i'd suggest a 928 if you want a v8.

Agreed. Why not open up the intake and exhaust flows of the car that you have? I'm sure that that would free up some performance.

I fail to see the fixation on installing a small block V8 in such a finely balanced car. If you want more performance in the same package, start looking for a turbo 944 that you can trick out. I hear that they'll take goodly amount of boost over the stock setup.

Now I myself am wondering if there is a supercharger that would work ob S2. At the same time I'm thinking that it's already at 10.1:1 compression, and if the supercharger stuffs even more fuel mixture into the cylinder this would go higher, and in order to prevent pre-ignition, I'd have to what? Runing 110 octane racing gas or something?

Hmmm. Tell me I'm wrong.

There is so little you can do though with the 4 cylinder. Its older and less reliable. The v-8 has more you can do with it. How much would it cost to beef up a porsche 4 from 120bhp to 350bhp? How reliable would it be>? Alot less reliable than the v-8 and more pricey too.

Why on earth would you need that much HP in a 944? If you want to go drag racing with it, you'd be better off with a GM F-body or a Mustang or Chrysler equivalents. These cars do well on the drag strip, and there are a multitude of reasonably priced modifications to increase HP even beyond what you've stated your are looking for.

The philosophy and design goals behind the 944 is handling, and it does exceedingly well in this area even in just stock trim. It is one of the best handling, best balanced cars that have ever been designed and built, giving the user a precise handling balance between the front and rear traction limits, as well as balancing the HP needed to perform well. Granted, the base 944 could use a little more HP, and the result of this was the 944 Turbo and S1 and S2 series. But all in all the 944's handling capabilities exceeds that of most drivers skills in using it. At this point, it makes the most sense to upgrade the driver with skills rather than modifying the car for an skill limited driver. If you are going to autocross or drive road courses with the car, and still feel that the car is underpowered and uncompetitive, then you need to learn better driving technique to take better advantage of what the car car give you.

Why do you want to go an ruin that existing harmony of balance by over powering the chassis? Why do you feel that you need to? Wouldn't it make more sense to just enjoy the near perfection that has been achieved by the Porsche design engineers rather than muck it up?

There are some engine swap ideas that I've heard around that would make a more synergetic sense to me. One of them is to drop a VW VR6 engine in. This make sense once you understand the history of the 944. The 944 was designed by Porsche under contract by VW using many of the parts from the VW parts bin. When VW didn't want to produce the car, Porsche bought the contract back from them, and decided to manufacture the 944. So there is some history that would support this type of an engine swap. The VW VR6 was designed to put a 6 cylinder engine in a 4 cylinder engine bay. This is precisely what would be done if the VR6 was swapped into a 944, so there is some technical foundation for this swap. It's also in line with current corporate realities, as VW, Porsche and Audi are all now part of a larger corporate entity.

Before you go and decide to do this, I think that you should consider these points that I've raised, and perhaps re-evaluate your motivations for wanting to do the engine swap that you mentioned.

Well, I must vent on srivers33: OK you state that there is so little you can do with a 4 cylinder engine but so much you can do with a V8. Things to consider Mr. reinventer of the wheel-V8 chevy in stock form produces, lets say 180hp but weighs more than twice what a Porsche 4 cylinder weighs. Buy the time you spend the money to build a small block chevy that really makes 350 HP(not chevy's claim that their crate motors make) you've spent $2500.00 Now anyone that even considers this swap is obviously lacking in the cranium area, so now you have to pay someone to create all the brackets, mounts, clutch housing, exhaust, ect. Now you've destroyed a perfectly good german auto, spent all your money, and have a car thats slower than a stock turbo, handles like a 5.0 mustang(which is like crap, Mr rocketman). You'll have NO respect in the Porsche world and be laughed out of the muscle car world. So, if you want a tire smokin', go in staight line, can't stop piece of crap-just buy a Mustang and save your time and money. Ahhhhhh......I feel much better now!-Oh buy the way we race a 944S that makes 290hp at the rear wheels and the car weighs 2275-you do the math if you know how srivers33

Well, that's a bit more extreem that my post than mine, but basically states the position.

A 944S makes 290 HP at the wheels? Mine is at 210 HP. You suppose that I could put a supercharger on it? It'd be less plumbing than a turbo.... Well, just a thought, as I've said in my post, there is a lot of performance that I have to learn how to use already there.

290hp is a stroked crank, higher compression pistons, Webb custom ground cams, Millage intake system, ect. Sorry if I gave the impression it was a stock "S"

hey now fellas give the guy some slack he's special. ok so i cant really throw alot of facts out about a porsche im just now germanizing myself.trying to learn as much as possible. so this is all helpful to me too. but i do i know ive put in a lil sidecar wrench time on my dads 81 camaro.yea he's just got a 383 automatic car that runs high 12s nothing whatsoever done to the body of the car no tubs or nething of this nature. just motor.street legal on street tires.and mid grade gas. hes got a little over 8k in it. so if you wanna buy a 944 and put thrice as much into a motor swap be our guest. but still rethink your patterns.

If you are truly bent on converting your 944 then try these two forums.....http://www.560sec.com/bulletinboard/index.php?sid=128a2e9338d9c5311d858f58364cb746

http://www.pors-chev.com/ubbthreads.php?Cat=

More there then you want to read about.

Enjoy!

Why are so many people here so hellbent on the idea of putting a american V8 in a porsche??? Mabey spend the money on the engine you have and keep the cars integrity.

Don't mess up a PORSCHE 944 by dropping a different engine in. I have an 86 944 and would you believe it's an AUTOMATIC 3 speed. At first the car sucked as any 944 fan will tell you, but I rebuilt the engine ground up after the # 3 con rod went? had the engine modified/ported polished and flowed, 10.1. higher capacity injectors and fuel regulator - back to twin pumps. runs cat less with cold air induction and a special vortex air stream system. I now have the best handling/balance sports car ever with bags of power. My next project is to buy a 5 speed and move all the goodies over. Don't ruin a Porsche when you can do so much with them. I only paid $3,900 for my 86 one lady owner with 56k on the car. Just in case someone was wondering WHY go for an AUTOMATIC.

944 is known for its perfect handling, with a v8 it will be a piece of crap drag car.
If you get a turbo (951) with a vitesse stage 3 kit the car has 455hp and around that in torque. All you need are the injectors.
So if you get a $8000 turbo 944, spend total of around 4000 for the turbo, another 1000 for suspension and you will have a relieable car for 13000 that beats EVOs, STIs, mustangs and about everything else in every kind of auto sport.
AND when you open the hood it says in nice big letters "PORSCHE", not ford or chevy. By the way I am still wondering why not get a mustang or other car that comes stock with v8?

944 is known for its perfect handling, with a v8 it will be a piece of crap drag car.
If you get a turbo (951) with a vitesse stage 3 kit the car has 455hp and around that in torque. All you need are the injectors.
So if you get a $8000 turbo 944, spend total of around 4000 for the turbo, another 1000 for suspension and you will have a relieable car for 13000 that beats EVOs, STIs, mustangs and about everything else in every kind of auto sport.
AND when you open the hood it says in nice big letters "PORSCHE", not ford or chevy. By the way I am still wondering why not get a mustang or other car that comes stock with v8?


Hear! Hear!

This is my thinking as well.

A 944 with a vitesse stage 3 would be such an awesome car! It'd be a super car by all standards, and at a really bargin price at that.

You think I could do something like that with my S2? Ohh, it'd be just so hot!

If you want a porsche with a V8 buy a 928, by the time you dropped all the cash to put an american v8 you could have a couple early 928s or one 928 GTS

You're all right, why mess with what the good Dr thought was best!

are there any after market turbo systems available for the 944 or a dohc conversion?? is the strength of the 944 block comparable to toyotas 2jz which can handle 1400hp without any reinforcement?? not asking if it can handle that but a comparable amout for a 4 banger. im new to the whole porsche scene so just a few ?'s about em. thnx

Google around. There is a super charger kit available, and should increase HP up to around 300, with no turbo lag.

Since I have a 3.0L 10.9:1 engine, which is basically the same engine as the 968 Turbo but running 7.5:1 pistons, I should be able to rebuild the engine, put lower compression pistons in, with the compressor kit running at 1 bar boost, and be pretty close to the 968 turbos numbers, which is around 300 HP and something like 350 FT/LBS torque. Would make the car squirt off the line rather nicely.

Google around. There is a super charger kit available, and should increase HP up to around 300, with no turbo lag.

Since I have a 3.0L 10.9:1 engine, which is basically the same engine as the 968 Turbo but running 7.5:1 pistons, I should be able to rebuild the engine, put lower compression pistons in, with the compressor kit running at 1 bar boost, and be pretty close to the 968 turbos numbers, which is around 300 HP and something like 350 FT/LBS torque. Would make the car squirt off the line rather nicely.

When I last talked to Kokeln, they told me that their 968 turbo conversions use shorter Carrillo connecting rods to lower the compression, and use stock 968 pistons. This was years ago though... They rate their engines at 500+hp. At the time I was looking around, there were no low compression pistons available, due to the complications of the alloy block.


As for engine swapping, relax you guys. Just because the motor is not made by Porsche does not mean that the handling of the car will be ruined. If you're worried about defiling the sancticty of the marque by swapping in another engine, get your head out of your ass. If someone wants to put a V8 in their car, and the only grounds you object on are the origins of the motor, then keep the sentiment to yourself...

Time for some facts. A 4.0 -7.0 liter smallblock V8 is a much more efficient package than 2.0 - 3.0 liter 4 cylinder when it comes to size/weight compared to displacement. The 2.0 in my 924 weighs 315lbs, compare that to 415lbs for a Ford 5.0 with IRON heads. A fiberglass hood and aluminum heads more than make up for that difference. Relocate the battery and you can shift even more weight rearward. Don't think the aluminum block in teh 944 engine saves much weight, the 944 Turbo motor weighs 400lbs dry. That's just 15lbs shy of a motor with double the displacement. A good set of aluminum heads will see that Ford 5.0 making 350+hp, and lose 40lbs, making the V8 actually LIGHTER than the 4 cylinder. Also, a 944 Turbo making 400hp is peaky, laggy would have to run on very high octane fuel, which can be hard to find in some areas. A 400hp 5.0 is as simple as a good set of heads, higher ratio rockers and boltons.

Of course, that's just the 5.0, the chevy smallblock is considerably heavier than the Ford motor.

Contrary to what anyone will tell you, a small displacement naturally aspirated SOHC 4 cylinder is never going to make breathtaking power without being peaky, high maintenance and expensive to run. My 924 is pretty far from stock, through a combination of 931 pistons and milling, my compression is about 11.2:1, the car only runs on 94 octane, and it has no power below 3000rpm, you have to launch at around 2200rpm or it stalls, and I don't even make anywhere near 200hp. My plans call for yanking the 2.0 motor and replacing it with a 2.5 liter V6 with much more sporting pretensions. The engine stock makes 200hp, with intake/header/exhaust and management makes more, will move the centre of weight further rearward in the car, and weighs less than the stock engine. Rail on me if you want, but keeping my gas guzzling peaky 2.0 because of semantics would be foolish.

Just my 2 cents worth....

The Chevy LS-1 conversion wouldn't cost more than 3k total (about 1k for the LS-1, and 2k for the conversion kit from Renegade Hybrid) Now... The LS-1 is a 5.7L v8 with a timing chain and all the other reliable goodies which keeps preventative maintenance costs LOWER than that of a Porsche engine. Also, lets say you have to take the Porsche to the shop? There are much more parts available for an american v8 than there is an old Porsche I-4 (and costs for that v8 won't be as expensive compared to a Porsche...)

As for the weight, the v8 doesn't weigh that much more than the 944 Turbo setup. So what if the ratio is now 53-47 rather than 51-49? While I understand this is a matter of opion, I feel that the very slight loss in ratio balance is worth the extra 200+ hp gain. The v8 does have much more potential over the I-4. If you plan on doing autocrossing, having a v8 won't hurt your stability on the track, and you'll have greater hp/tq over your competitors that are stuck with I-4 and turbos... just imagine the possibilities if you stuck a turbo on that v8!!! Now the LS-1 is a 320hp/350tq block (the 86 944 tranny can hold up to those ratings, however, a 944T tranny or another stronger tranny will be needed if performance modifications are going to be made in addition to the LS-1 block) The LS-1 Block dry is only 500lbs, but with great room and potential to produce as much as much as 550hp for street applications (peaks around 650hp for drag cars)

I've done the research.

I've talked to the people who've done the v8 swap. Yeah, while your pride might be scratched since the car isn't 100% Porsche, you'll have a lightweight car (under 3,000lbs stock, with appropriate carbonfiber modifications, a 86 944 with the v8 can weigh as little as 2,700lbs, if not less) Don't disregard the v8, its a worthwile swap if you are considering a 300+ hp Porsche for under $10k, or a 500+hp Porsche for under $30 ...

By the way I am still wondering why not get a mustang or other car that comes stock with v8?

The 944 (in my opinion), is much more of a sports car than a mustang or camaro. i mean, the 944 suspension and design was mastered to a close 51-49 balanced ratio. A mustang/camaro/whatever won't handle like a Porsche... Plus the Porsche 944 is lighter, and to me, looks sharper. Plus the name "Porsche" just sticks out

forget all these haters and do what you want there just afraid that your V-8 would kill there American V-8.

There are plenty of early 944's out there that have not been maintained, as such they have lost nearly all of their value. I see these cars advertised for less then 1k fairly often. I can see the appeal of taking one of these and bringing it back to life with a v8. My only problem with that, is gas mileage. A v8 will probably suck down twice as much gas as the porsche I4. It seems to me that if one wanted the least expensive high performance 944, the best way to go is to find a nice, clean 88 or 89 turbo s (951). I have seen these for around 10k.
Any money you would save with a cheaper 944 and a v8 would be offset at the pump.

Here is a hypothetical situation. Say you run across a 93' 944.
The body and interior are in decent shape but the motor has clearly been neglected and needs work. Say it has 175 miles. You can buy this car for $750. In fact you want a project and you are compelled to buy it because you like the color. What to do with this car?
Re-build the engine? Turbo charge it? super charge it? v8?
You don't want to spend more than say 7 thousand because by then you start getting into 951 territory.

Any thoughts on this senario?

In this thread someone mentioned that the 944 was built as a joint venture with VW. It is my understanding that the 924 was with VW and the 944- although clearly evolved from the 924 -was all porsche. Can anyone clear that up?