smog system
justlearning
12-08-2004, 11:22 PM
ok i know its a dumb question but if i take my smog pump out does it take away my a/c to cause i cant have that...and if not i called summit about the idler pulley for the smog pump so i dont have to reroute belts and stuff and they said they only made them for mustangs..now i know thats not true so where can i get one...also what about the other smog equipment i know i can buy an egr block off plate, but what about that evaporative emissions canister thing and my o2 sensor if i remove these will it really start to mess shit up... id really like to ditch the weight but more so just to clean up my engine bay a little what do u guys think about it thanx!!
cuda_dude
12-08-2004, 11:56 PM
ok i know its a dumb question but if i take my smog pump out does it take away my a/c to cause i cant have that...and if not i called summit about the idler pulley for the smog pump so i dont have to reroute belts and stuff and they said they only made them for mustangs..now i know thats not true so where can i get one...also what about the other smog equipment i know i can buy an egr block off plate, but what about that evaporative emissions canister thing and my o2 sensor if i remove these will it really start to mess shit up... id really like to ditch the weight but more so just to clean up my engine bay a little what do u guys think about it thanx!!
touch your o2 sensor and your wont be going anywhere......
touch your o2 sensor and your wont be going anywhere......
chevy_chic20041
12-09-2004, 07:56 AM
touch your o2 sensor and your wont be going anywhere......
:iagree:
:iagree:
DaMoNe6969
12-09-2004, 02:38 PM
not sure about the smog removal.
the canister can be removed without problems.. make sure the vacuum lines are plugged off and you can re-route the fuel tank vapours through the fender..
as mentioned, No you can not remove your o2 sensor.. that isnt just there for emissions..
the canister can be removed without problems.. make sure the vacuum lines are plugged off and you can re-route the fuel tank vapours through the fender..
as mentioned, No you can not remove your o2 sensor.. that isnt just there for emissions..
justlearning
12-09-2004, 10:35 PM
what do u mean i can reroute the vapors through the fenders
89IROC&RS
12-10-2004, 12:35 PM
why does everyone want to take off emissions stuff????? i still just dont understand. Unless you are building a purpose built race car, all that emissons equpment helps your car run BETTER!!!! it is designed to take advantage of it, its like cutting off someones big toe and expecting them to be better at walking and running. Im trying not to be a prick about it, but this is really a pet peeve of mine. Understand a system before you follow the shadetree mechanic mantra of "if its newfangled, cut it off"
IrocRacer029
12-10-2004, 04:22 PM
I just have a question for 89IROC&RS?
Im not trying to be a smart*** i was just wondering how the emissions stuff helps your car run better ,
because i coulda swore the whole smog thing decreases horsepower.
I thought this because i was watching a show on tv ,i dont remember which show it was but they were showing the first stages to getting horsepower power out of your stock chevy engine and it said first take off the cat and the smog. But again i could be wrong.
Im not trying to be a smart*** i was just wondering how the emissions stuff helps your car run better ,
because i coulda swore the whole smog thing decreases horsepower.
I thought this because i was watching a show on tv ,i dont remember which show it was but they were showing the first stages to getting horsepower power out of your stock chevy engine and it said first take off the cat and the smog. But again i could be wrong.
DaMoNe6969
12-10-2004, 05:47 PM
because modern engines are all computer controlled, And the computer is programmed to run at peak efficiency with everything including emissions componants in place..
when you start pulling stuff out, it can start to change combustion and engine temps, a/f ratios, etc.. that screw with the computer
when you start pulling stuff out, it can start to change combustion and engine temps, a/f ratios, etc.. that screw with the computer
justlearning
12-10-2004, 08:34 PM
know 89 i dont consider it being a prick at all i didnt know it helped my car run efficently i just thought it was to cut back on the emissions period im glad u said something because if thats the case ill leave it be...one question though what if i wanna get a carb intake and they dont have the one i want w/ egr on it will blocking the egr mess things up any??
89IROC&RS
12-11-2004, 02:41 PM
well first off i apologize, because i do overreact on that, i forget that people dont know how the emissions systems interact like i do and i take it for granted.
The simple way of putting it is this. when the factory designs an engine, they design it as a system. everything has a purpose, and all the other systems are working on the basis of what that system is doing. that is why i made the point of saying if you are starting from scratch, then you can scrap the emissions stuff, cuz your engine wont be designed to run with it. Now, take the factory engine, and take the emissions off, and you change perameters that are set as standards in the system. Because those settings werent made to be changed, the computer cant adapt to the new information, and your car will run like crap. a few examples
Air pump (smog pump) - its purpose is to add oxygen to the exhaust system to burn excess fuel before it reaches the O2 and catalytic converter. Removing it will cause the O2 to detect a false rich condition and lean out the mixture to compensate, a lean mixture wil reduce power, and possibly damage spark plugs and combustion chambers.
EGR - its purpose is to lower combustion temperatures, The primary reason to do this is to reduce the levels of NOx emissions. However it also keeps the engine running cooler, By removing it, you will have higher combustion temps, which will raise the temp of incoming intake charges, and lower power.
O2 sensors, these are just common sense, they keep your AF ratio as perfect as possible, important for both emissions and power.
Catalytic converter - reduces tailpipe emissions by scrubbing the exhaust of the engine clean. removing it not only adds to polution, but reduces exhaust backpressure enough in some cases to over evacuate the cylenders, and cause a rich conditon. which can reduce power, and cause throttle hesitation. throw i high flow cat in there instead of a strait pipe.
the basic idea is that yes, all that emissions equipment does take away power, but because the engine was designed as a production engine, to work with those parts, it will take away additional power when you remove them, not add power back. If the engine was a hotrod performance engine, that had smog equipment put on, you would see power drop, and then taking the equipment off, would let the power come back up. but this just isnt the case with production engines.
I guess also i am just a tree hugger, because i dont see the reason of making a car a pollution spewing monster for the sake of maybe 15-20hp when we already have such bad pollution problems. go buy a set of emissions compliant performance heads, and get an additional 50hp and still pass the sniffer test. power is acheived through combustion efficiency, you can have a monster engine, that passes the sniffer test, and will be kind to the environment. look at the last Z06, made 405hp, got 32mpg on the highway, and ive seen them post near zero emissions. Id rather have an engine like that than a big cube fuel spitting planet killing abhorision as a daily driver anyday. especially with gas prices the way they are. now thats not to say the big gas guzzler wouldnt be fun on the weekends for short, say 1/4 mile trips ;) But its kinda the difference between a daily driver vs a toy. Thats why the camaro is going to be an 10 or 11 second car, that gets 30+mpg and near zero emissions. and ill have the blazer with a big cube non computer controlled beast to go rompin in the mud and camping in.
The simple way of putting it is this. when the factory designs an engine, they design it as a system. everything has a purpose, and all the other systems are working on the basis of what that system is doing. that is why i made the point of saying if you are starting from scratch, then you can scrap the emissions stuff, cuz your engine wont be designed to run with it. Now, take the factory engine, and take the emissions off, and you change perameters that are set as standards in the system. Because those settings werent made to be changed, the computer cant adapt to the new information, and your car will run like crap. a few examples
Air pump (smog pump) - its purpose is to add oxygen to the exhaust system to burn excess fuel before it reaches the O2 and catalytic converter. Removing it will cause the O2 to detect a false rich condition and lean out the mixture to compensate, a lean mixture wil reduce power, and possibly damage spark plugs and combustion chambers.
EGR - its purpose is to lower combustion temperatures, The primary reason to do this is to reduce the levels of NOx emissions. However it also keeps the engine running cooler, By removing it, you will have higher combustion temps, which will raise the temp of incoming intake charges, and lower power.
O2 sensors, these are just common sense, they keep your AF ratio as perfect as possible, important for both emissions and power.
Catalytic converter - reduces tailpipe emissions by scrubbing the exhaust of the engine clean. removing it not only adds to polution, but reduces exhaust backpressure enough in some cases to over evacuate the cylenders, and cause a rich conditon. which can reduce power, and cause throttle hesitation. throw i high flow cat in there instead of a strait pipe.
the basic idea is that yes, all that emissions equipment does take away power, but because the engine was designed as a production engine, to work with those parts, it will take away additional power when you remove them, not add power back. If the engine was a hotrod performance engine, that had smog equipment put on, you would see power drop, and then taking the equipment off, would let the power come back up. but this just isnt the case with production engines.
I guess also i am just a tree hugger, because i dont see the reason of making a car a pollution spewing monster for the sake of maybe 15-20hp when we already have such bad pollution problems. go buy a set of emissions compliant performance heads, and get an additional 50hp and still pass the sniffer test. power is acheived through combustion efficiency, you can have a monster engine, that passes the sniffer test, and will be kind to the environment. look at the last Z06, made 405hp, got 32mpg on the highway, and ive seen them post near zero emissions. Id rather have an engine like that than a big cube fuel spitting planet killing abhorision as a daily driver anyday. especially with gas prices the way they are. now thats not to say the big gas guzzler wouldnt be fun on the weekends for short, say 1/4 mile trips ;) But its kinda the difference between a daily driver vs a toy. Thats why the camaro is going to be an 10 or 11 second car, that gets 30+mpg and near zero emissions. and ill have the blazer with a big cube non computer controlled beast to go rompin in the mud and camping in.
CORE402
12-11-2004, 04:05 PM
JUST GLAD I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT EMMISIONS. Bonus of having smog exempt vehicle. But I pay for it with lack of fuel efficiency. But yes I totally agree with 89IROC&RS new engines are a complex system that one should not just start ripping at.
justlearning
12-11-2004, 10:58 PM
well then i have a few additional comments/questions, when i put my pipes on i deleted the cat, because mine was clogged and i didnt have the xtra dough at the time for a high flow cat and i did weld a hole for the air system in the pipe and kept that...my question is most headers for our cars do have a hole for the o2 sensor corect so that it can be put father up so that i dont get running rich??? i thought i read that they do in summit but i was just wondering. also what intake do they offer for tbi i was goin to get a carb one and a adapter plate but the more im reading up on stuff in mag. and such im thinkin that having this big open hole will really kill my low end torque, and i was gonna get a holley tbi or one from a 350 and it would be pointless to get the edelbrock tbi cause its only got 1 11-16 bore and the 350 and holley as a 2 inch bore i belive??
89IROC&RS
12-12-2004, 12:22 AM
as far as the headers, any 50 state legal part will have the O2 hole already installed. dont know if will correct the ratio for a rich condition by simply moving it. As far as running no cat, its not the end of the world, your car isnt going to fall flat on its face, plenty of guys here run without em, i just dont personally feel its nessesary or the best way to go. as far as intakes for the TBI, you can always hit up GMPP, SDPC, or Jegs, they all offer hipo intakes for it. You can even get TBI intakes for vortec heads. that would boost power quite a bit and improove combustion efficiency. The vortec heads with a larger throttle body and a high power ignition system would be a great upgrade to the factory engine. The only catch if i remember correctly is that the vortec heads dont have egr ports, so you have to tap a pipe into the header, and route the EGR gasses somehow, there is a kit for TPI, but im not sure about TBI.
NINÅ
12-12-2004, 10:46 AM
ok i know its a dumb question but if i take my smog pump out does it take away my a/c .............i called summit about the idler pulley for the smog pump.................id really like to ditch the weight but more so just to clean up my engine bay..............thanx!!And now, to actually answer your question.Because you want a clean engine compartment you don't want idler pulleys. After removing the dork pump, a different belt routing is necessary. Have it come up over the top of the water pump, back under the water pump then around the crank and off the bottom of the crank to the AC compressor. All of your accessories will turn correctly. Use a Dayco 968K6 belt. The AC will work cool man.
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