Bit of a "eye-opener" for me today.........

After buying this model tank below for a friend, I'm at a loss for words.
Its been a few years since I bothered to look at one of these kits in detail.
The amount of parts and details that have gone into this kit is quite stunning. There is over 3 times the amount of parts molded in this kit compared to your normal basic car that is done by Tamiya or Fujumi etc.
My question is.......why do us car builders end up with very little new stuff to pick from?
All we seem to get is a re-molded kit from years ago or a new kit that gets slightly changed. Example being the Tamiya ENZO. Great kit, but we get a choice between it molded in red or a special "yellow version".....COME ON!!
Please dont hand me that "We have to build new molds for cars crap".....your doing it nearly every bloody month bringing out new stuff apart from cars.
Every month all I see is new Tanks etc being done for all those builders but what about us car builders....is the marked not big enough?
If you can spend this much time molding tanks/planes with so many parts, surely a car kit is so much more easy?
Only positive i can see from it all is the Tank kit set was almost twice as much to buy then a car.
Are "we" cars builders the "poor mans builder" who are not being looked after enough?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/1PMan/DSCF3274A.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v60/1PMan/Dscf3273.jpg

Yeah! I know and agree with you fully. It's strange that we don't get nearly as many new civilian vehicles compared to what the military guys get!? But if we look at the situation here in Sweden there seems to be a bigger market for the not so shiny stuff than we can bring up with our lovley cars and motorcycles. I only have to take a look at our main site here in Sweden to see that there is a wast majority that build tanks, planes, figures and naval stuff. Me and my car building associates are a little exclusive pack that hardly gets any attention at all from these guys when it comes to commenting our work. Feels a bit strange to see the amount of attention these guys give each others and hardly takes notice of us.

Niclas

I agree! We disserve more detail!!! We don't except cars with less then 200 parts anymore!!!

Have to agree with ya pman the car modeller sure does get shortchanged but model companies are in buisiness for one thiing and thats to make money and military sells and sells and the aftermarket area is huge also, i started out modelling cars then brought one tank kit and was hooked now my car stash is half the size of my military kits and i'm still collecting. I try to build a car and military subject at the same time as i really like both. tamyia cars kits seem to be tied to their rc dept as this is where they make most of their coin and they seem to have slowed down on the military kits in 1/35 and are changing to 1/48 as dragon,trumpeter and afv club are killing them in 1/35 scale. So why not get in on the act and grab a tank kit it could be a refreshing change for you. Cheers Bob. :smokin:

Supply and demand. The market for armour and aviation subjects is much bigger than our automotive niche. We're just more exclusive I guess! Besides we don't do too badly, sure there haven't been many new kits that interest me lately and those that do like the Murcielago are very ordinary. However there are plenty of old kits that I still have to build. :) Most exciting is some of the reissures like the FIAT 131 and possibly Escort Mk II.

Agree with RallyRaider.
Car market is not small, but diecast market have slice 50% of scale model market. The profit on diecast is much better than scale model. Tamiya and some major plastic company are starting to jump into diecast market. Remember, Tamiya once release a pre-painted body models? Then complete finish models? 1/64 scale diecast JGTC and 1/12 diecast Ferrari? Now diecast under-chassis? What's next...I think you already know what will it be.
I have been pushing the car modeling to alot of young adult in my country, telling how interesting in building models. Modelers are not only build model, we do reference on real cars and bikes, knowlegde is way far than any of non-builders. But all I get were... "Doing models are waste of time." "Only kids do models, adult don't do kids stuff." "Why waste time sitting at home doing model rather I can buy a diecast and display. It's cheaper and it can fully open and is big, model can't open, small and don't have a weight..." That's sucks! :mad:
Here, is a big modeling family, if we can promote this car modeling to most young people, I think the market will grow bigger. Just hope and it's my :2cents:

I will tell you this. At my Hobby Shop i am the only regular customer that builds cars. the shop has an incredible stock. over 10,000 kits. only about 100 are cars. mostly old stock and a few newer Revells. I have to order everything but they get me what im looking for every time so i dont complain and if i didnt have to order kits i buy so many kits i didnt really want if they were in stock. Also they dont stock Tamiya Spray Cans which sucks bad but the military guys dont use them. Basically most of these military guys were in a war at some point so theyre personally attached to these kits. Us 30 years old or younger generally havent been in the service so cars are more appealling to us. but most hardcore modellers are over 30 and have served time with the military. also even though the body of the tank is different from one to the next most of alll those little goody parts like shovels, treads, wheels, turrets etc... are all very generic and not correct so in turn you get alot of pieces but most are inaccurate. so the car models are actually built much better and nothing can be used from one kit to the next like in military so it is much more expensive.

My observations ...

The majority of scale model builders I come in contact with outside of AF are military modelers. Local LHS's are heavy into military with cars as an afterthought. Many military builders are older, meaning more disposeable income. I see many of them as detail freaks, so that makes for a healthy accessories market for military as well.

Car modelers tend to be a younger audience, less disposeable income. Plus auto enthusiasts who get into a car-related hobby have choices; go diecast, the collecting method, or for the ones that like to work on things, go R/C, where after the building, you can do things with the finish product. My auto enthusiast friends fall into either one of these buckets. None in scale modeling.

We car modelers just don't have the numbers, and sadly, I feel our numbers are shrinking, and we can't completely shake the "kiddie/toy" image of car modeling that many outside the hobby associate to us.

Don't even get me started about how lame the US-based model companies have become. They spit out an occasional winner and they're endlessly pulling out reissues, but it's like pulling teeth waiting endlessly for them to do something new and get it on the shelves, and they're teasing us with new announcements and then killing many of them off because they can't sell firewood to Eskimos or water in the Sahara without having it all presold. :disappoin

A successful business has to take calculated risks, and the US-based companies are too timid to take any real risks anymore. They focus so much on past failures they lack any vision for success.

My father introduced me to modeling. He bought me my first airplane and tank. I was so happy and I cound't wait for him to come home to show me how to biuld it. He tought me how to build it, paint it, make my own glue. Memories are priceless.
Then when I moved to USA, my dad moved to another coast of USA, and I lost interest in planes and tanks mainly cause of cost $$$$$.

Now I realy would like to build another plane, but I don't have extra $100+.

I've seen people go in and spend hundreds on 1/35 scale tanks and stuff. Usually it's just a tank, with some paints and a photo-etch set that costs an exorbant amount of money. I'd like to build one someday though, but some of those modellers could attack you for building it "out of date" or "wrong color" or "wrong armament" "wrong place" yada yada yada.

I've heard the T55 is a good and fun kit to build though.

Im pretty new to this whole scale modeling thing. To tell you guys the truth i started out collecting die-cast models and right about now my collection goes of around 23 1:18 scale and 10 1:24 scale, then around 12 1:43 scale. Most of my friends also collect die cast models. I think the reason why most of them don't build scale models is either because they were not satisfied with their first model or the cars shown to them in local walmart weren't what they wanted. I don't blame them for that. Companies need to bring out new cars and work on their parts to try to make them more detailed! Put better things in these kits! Create a wider selection!!!

w are definately being punished.. Just browsing any hobby shops or walmarts modeling section should be punishment enough. Hell, I've actually lowered my standards so far that my current project is one of those AMT '88 foxbody mustangs, just cause at least it has engine detail and a decent price tag. :rolleyes:

seems like right now, for every kit there is, theres a kit that I sorely wish was available.

and whats with all the die casts and models coming pre-riced lately?http://web.tampabay.rr.com/blueboost/images/smileyR.gif

I'm pretty much happy with my collection as it is, there aren't many cars I desperately seek anymore. And much less that isn't available. So there.

But I do think the market for model cars is far smaller. One of the things I've noticed is I think model cars aren't as well respected as others because there isn't the sort of nitpicking that Turbo Monster pointed out. Very few modellers try to make an accurate representation of a specific car, at a specific time, doing a specific thing. I think a lot of military/aircraft/railroad/ship modellers pick their subjects because of research - they paint the tank as it would have looked in April of 1945 instead of how the same tank looked in December of 44. And they have pictures or paperwork to back it up.

Nerds.

Also...I must say this too.
Car and bike models are the hardest among all modeling field, the eaisest must be military(except modern aircraft). You know when you drybrushing your tanks and armor and accidentaly broke some parts, you will put it as "battle-damage", but for cars and bikes, can you said the same thing? No of course, most modeler whose fell into the car modeling usually will not last more than 3 months, then they will drift off to either die-cast or R/C. To master the techique of automobile is not a easy thing to say. We invest on good tools, search for reference, look for detail and etching parts(not alot company do etching and is quite limited, not like military...there's plenty of them.) and also we have to earn the experience in building by mistake and discussion in AF or any modeling forums. Most people will think it takes too long to master a car modeling skill.
Sad to said, I owned a hobby shop and I do find that not alot of people in these days build scale car models. Mainly are those whose watch some FnF or Initial D and want to have one that they like but they had been putting their expertation way too high. When standard is not what they expect they give up and something they cursed on the hobby shop owner for lying them. I think they have too many choice in find their hobbies. Only left "Us" to secure this hobby for the rest of our life. I try to promote it but not effect as like what 'malsheem' had said....haiz! :disappoin
Rtuned

I'd like to see more old OOP kits being remolded rather then new cars all together, it's not like the companies actually threw the moldings out they just put them somewhere to make room for others over time.
My vote goes for reissues of kits like MPC and old school Tamiya, or maybe they could double the amount of molds for the popular models which are always out of stock, like most of the VIP series from Aoshima.
It made my 2004 complete when I heard Revell-Monogram is reissuing the 1960 Impala hardtop lowrider in Jan.

I absolutley agree with the above...Tamiya put out a bunch of new armor and plane kits last year, and only a handful of car kits. From what I've read, liscensing costs are a big reason for this. Almost all military subjects require no lisencing because the 1:1's are owned by the government, where as all car kits have to be lisenced, etc. Just my two cents.

While I have to agree that the diabolical, life-long challenge of a shiny, scale paint job is something no military modeler will ever have to face, I don't know if I'd be so quick as to say that military modeling is easier - at least, not at the (I)PMS level.

Many of the military guys I've seen are so anal, they need a year's supply of stool-softener just to deburr their parts. And research, man - if your contest plane doesn't have just the exact federal-standard shade of zinc chromate in its bomb bay, you're disqualified, ostracized, excommunicated, and screwed seven ways from Sunday.

There's a reason we call 'em "rivet-counters". :evillol:

Trumpeter is a little hitchy with their cars right now, but they've come into their own on military subjects. They got this 900-piece model of the USS Nimitz... 900 pieces on a battle ship, oh yes, I read that and wept. And you'd better believe it was our military brethren hurling their impacted feces at anything a micron off in dimension that prodded Trumpeter's metamorphosis into the Chinese Tamiya it is rapidly becoming - because there's a MARKET for their goods.

The whole car-modeling thang is the same matter of economics, pure and simple. Just six scant years ago, AMT started a three-year run of tooling so aggressive - we're talking some fifteen newly-tooled kits - that you had to wonder when the bottom was going to drop out in the instant-gratification, diecast-metastasized landscape of the U S market.

Sure enough, Racing Chumpions swept in, cleaned house at AMT, and capitalized on the profit center of the company: ERTL Pot Metal, which now enjoys an ever-present ubiquity in drug stores and gas stations not unlike that of plastic car model kits some forty years ago. And lest Polar Lights generate too many new subjects for me and other scribes to review in 2005, The Chumps have extended the same courtesy to that scrappy little company. A sure bet like the new Ford GT, and an absolute no-brainer like the new Mustang? Announced for a January release in October. GONE today (along with the staff at Polar Lights), thanks to "soft preorders".

In the meantime, who's to say just why it is that Tamiya, Fujimi, Trumpeter, and other foreign manufacturers can forge ahead as the Trilateral Diecast Commission picks off our domestic plastic manufacturers one by one? Is it a cultural difference? Is there a steadier influx in the youth market in Europe and Japan consuming new car models? Do the Japanese manufacturers cater better to young enthusiasts worldwide?

Have the asian manufacturers had either the wisdom or good fortune not to have to depend on preorders from big-box stores? Have the domestic manufacturers - with one notable exception - simply become too risk-averse? Are they too misdirected in their product focus? Or are they simply reacting to the realities of a U S market?

Only Revell-Monogram, with its canny mix of diecast kits, cleverly modified reissues, and carefully reasoned new releases, seems to offer any positive prospects for the future among domestic companies. In case you haven't heard, the inmates have taken over the asylum in Northbrook, Illinois.

Will they give the lie or prove the rule to this whole notion of Wal-Mart dictating the product line?

We'll have to see.

Oh, and as for that other favorite issue of mine, LICENSING: let's just say that my 1:1 ride has an appetite for big, sticky performance radials - the profits on which Goodyear will never enjoy from me again.

Wonder how many kits would have generated the equivalent in licensing fees, had R/M not told them to go pound it sideways... :thefinger

Revell...nice kits, worth the wait. Too bad they're 2-3 years behind schedule on nearly everything.

The net result for anyone who wants a Revell kit of a modern car? It's a used car by the time the Revell kit is on the shelf.

The Focus SVT that was released this year depicts an '02 model car. They allegedly have WRX and Acura RSX diecast kits coming, probably also '02 model year models. Here it is the '05 model year, and the '03 Viper still isn't here, and was delayed yet again. The '05 Mustang was announced in September of '03 and was pushed back to a September of '05 release. If we're lucky...they always delay them further closer to the release date. I'm sure Ford will have some very tasty update to keep the Mustang GT fresh, yet Revell's kit won't reflect it. The Viper, C6 Corvette and the '05 Mustang GT should have been available NOW. Revell's never going to catch up without some serious house cleaning (like a two-year moratorium on new announcements). The glimmer of hope that was Polar Lights was snuffed by the usual RC2 blunder which wasn't exactly unexpected. The US companies are embarrasingly behind the curve in comparison w/the Asian companies.

Thanks for all your feedback so far

My pleasure, Primera. I'd say "Our", but I don't want to speak for anyone else... :biggrin:

Revell...nice kits, worth the wait. Too bad they're 2-3 years behind schedule on nearly everything.

The net result for anyone who wants a Revell kit of a modern car? It's a used car by the time the Revell kit is on the shelf.

The Focus SVT that was released this year depicts an '02 model car. They allegedly have WRX and Acura RSX diecast kits coming, probably also '02 model year models. Here it is the '05 model year, and the '03 Viper still isn't here, and was delayed yet again. The '05 Mustang was announced in September of '03 and was pushed back to a September of '05 release. If we're lucky...they always delay them further closer to the release date. I'm sure Ford will have some very tasty update to keep the Mustang GT fresh, yet Revell's kit won't reflect it. The Viper, C6 Corvette and the '05 Mustang GT should have been available NOW. Revell's never going to catch up without some serious house cleaning (like a two-year moratorium on new announcements). The glimmer of hope that was Polar Lights was snuffed by the usual RC2 blunder which wasn't exactly unexpected. The US companies are embarrasingly behind the curve in comparison w/the Asian companies.

Too true, too true.

But for now, on the domestic scene, it looks like these guys are IT...

wow, that is some reading there.....
I agree with you all. model cars "take to long" in this micro wave world, is the mentality of my son, however he sees the benifit of creating something from that which did not exist, so I am inclined to believe that he will inherit the appreciation for a one off over the manufactured "customs".....and that raises another thing....how can they call it custom if there are 50 of the same car on the same shelf?

military models are very popular for another reason, it is a recognition of national pride. Our brothers fathers, uncles cousins sister, moms, and grandparents all have/are/will serve in the military, and they can bring back fond memories of their times of being in the services, I know I have built my share of hummers, and despise the "civillian" versions (specially the H-2)

I forgot where I was going with this, but, next time you are at your LHS pick up a copy of Fine Scale Modeler, and look at the detail and effort put into some of these builds, they are gemmerally much more intricate than I could ever accomp;ish on one of my car builds.

i originally started out modelling with the military kits, like evry other kid, i liked the idea of a soldier, so when i was able, i got into modelling military things... planes, tanks, jeeps, bikes, soldiers, i even tried diaramas (sp?)

then as i got older and got interested in cars, my modelling habits turned to the motor side. since taking up car modelling i've done kits from race cars to road cars, nothing else now :(

no doubt when i get older my intrests will change again, perhaps boats or planes. i think that the general "middle age" modellers are more drawn to the things they can relate to, such as planes, trains, boats and cars, wheras the "younger generation" and the "older generation" are more drawn towards military. the younger ones for the "romance" of it all, and the older ones perhaps due to some service. i know if i served in the forces, i'd like to build a tank i drove, or a tank that shot at me!!

i agree that the choice of car kits is pretty poor compared to all other kinds of modelling, but you have to look at some of the kits the other modellers get... how many tanks are exactly the same except for the livery? same with planes and trains???

i'm one of the lucky ones, i managed to get a kit of my car, i had a kit of my last car, but have no chance of finding a kit of any car i had before that, but you can get a kit of every tank that ever was, every army jeep that ever was, every air force plane that ever was, why not every car that ever was?

1/24th austin allegro anyone?

i understand that the big companys work to a demand, if there's no demand, there's no model, but surley most of us buy a model as an impulse! yeah some hunt that specific model, but the majority of time, it's rummage through whats in the store and take whatever takes your fancy. if i wnt into the local shop and saw a model of some old banger that my grandad once drove, chances are i'd buy it... for a laugh!

as things stand though, we'll all just have to bite the bullit and get on with it, can you slam a tank and put a set of 20" chromes on it? would it look good with a huge rear wing and some "go faster" stripes?

with the possibility of modification, our choices are endless!

my tuppence worth
boab

Also...I must say this too.
Car and bike models are the hardest among all modeling field, the eaisest must be military(except modern aircraft). You know when you drybrushing your tanks and armor and accidentaly broke some parts, you will put it as "battle-damage", but for cars and bikes, can you said the same thing? No of course, most modeler whose fell into the car modeling usually will not last more than 3 months, then they will drift off to either die-cast or R/C. To master the techique of automobile is not a easy thing to say. We invest on good tools, search for reference, look for detail and etching parts(not alot company do etching and is quite limited, not like military...there's plenty of them.) and also we have to earn the experience in building by mistake and discussion in AF or any modeling forums. Most people will think it takes too long to master a car modeling skill.
Sad to said, I owned a hobby shop and I do find that not alot of people in these days build scale car models. Mainly are those whose watch some FnF or Initial D and want to have one that they like but they had been putting their expertation way too high. When standard is not what they expect they give up and something they cursed on the hobby shop owner for lying them. I think they have too many choice in find their hobbies. Only left "Us" to secure this hobby for the rest of our life. I try to promote it but not effect as like what 'malsheem' had said....haiz! :disappoin
Rtuned

I agree with this too Rtuned, which go's along with my thought that, why would a model company want to take the chance with new product when your customer base is so here and there. I mean look at the products that are being put out lately by the U.S. manufacturers- the import cars with the F&F out of date bodykits. Sales numbers from real enthusiast model builders will be fleeting

good thread

That's why I buy so many kits; I have a nice stash of whatever I want to build whenever I want to build it. I suggest new ideas to the model companies via my non-read emails and just pray that I find stuff I'd eventually like to build. If they choose to listen to us one day, then fine. If not, oh well I'll just go to my stash and create.

Also...I must say this too.
Car and bike models are the hardest among all modeling field, the eaisest must be military(except modern aircraft). You know when you drybrushing your tanks and armor and accidentaly broke some parts, you will put it as "battle-damage", but for cars and bikes, can you said the same thing?

I have to take issue with this comment. I would not say that one is any harder or easier than the other. I think it's just what the modeller makes of it. For some modellers "battle damage" might be acceptable, but to others, it may be not. I am sure military modellers are out there saying "Military models are the hardest among all the modeling field, the easiest must be cars and bikes. You know when you're scratchbuilding a part and it doesn't match the prototype exactly, you will put it as 'custom.'"

Personally, my goal is to put as much diligence into my model car construction as those armour folks put into their tanks. They detail their models exquisitely. I want to detail my cars with this tachometer that is exactly like an Autometer guage. If I make a racecar, and there is a wire here on the 1:1, I want there to be a wire there on the model. Can you imagine what would happen if you had the wrong electronic gunsite module on the tip of the tank's barrel? It if was slightly out of shape, size or color? It's not custom! There is no such thing in the miltary world. But if my the vent in my body kit is a little bit too tall or a little to square, well, it's Buddy Club style instead of Buddy Club replica.

It's all in how detailed and precise as you want to be. Some will be happy witht he wrong gunsite, some will be happy with a custom body kit. Some will want an exact miniature. How hard is your chosen model venue? As hard as you make it.

I can understand the model companies going after products in high demand and with high potential profits. That's how a business should be run, but I think the model car segment is overlooked because it isn't seen as profitable as other segments. That doesn't mean that it can't be, just need to look harder or be more innovative.

Some examples. While I don't particularly the FNF movies, I think it was a good idea to release the kits, even though they aren't good kits. The movies did decent and had a good amount of interest. They should have continued it since they had some better cars in the second movie. Revell did good releasing their tuner models to take advantage of the growing interest in the sport compact tuner segment. I like the idea of tie-ins to other items that automotive enthusiasts would be into. At least you know you're hitting a group that has interest in relating things. The high interest now in D1, JGTC in the US. I think Aoshima did well with the release of their D1 series cars. With the JGTC coming to the US in a week, maybe some more JGTC sets would be good to try and leverage this increased interest stateside. Why there hasn't been a tie-in to Gran Turismo I don't know. I mean, they got Nike involved and what the hell do shoes have to do with racing? And I'm sure that there are more things like this out there that could be used to increase the car modeling interest.

Another thing that should be addressed is simplicity. I know, we all get upset when we see anything other than an enthusiast level, perfectly accurate kit. We need more simplistic kits. Tamiya's kits with the chassis as one molded piece are good. Same with the die-cast chassis on the JGTC Z even though we hate it. This will encourage more beginners to try car modeling out. With the ever-decreasing attention spans and the need for instant gratification of today's youth, it'll be hard enough to sell them on building something that takes time to do right over just buying something pre-made.

Now I don't have any business experience or market data to back these claims, and maybe the companies have looked into these and decided it's not worth their investment, or maybe they just don't want to. Anyway, probably just rambling, but that's just my thoughts.

Military models are precise and detailed because military modelers have always expected them to be precise and detailed. For years, military modelers have railed against inaccurate, poorly done kits and then backed up their word by avoiding the kits.

No matter the subject matter's exclusivity or desirability. Military modelers WILL NOT BUY POOR KITS. This is why Revell-Monogram backed out of the armor market a long time ago. Nobody bought their kits, even at reduced price.

However, we auto modelers are incredibly forgiving. We bemoan poor kits by AMT, Lindberg, Revell, Fujimi, Aoshima, Airfix, Heller, Arii, Esci, Revell of Germany, Heller, and the like BUT WE STILL BUY THEM.

Revell released a great 1964 Impala kit two years ago. Brilliant chassis detail, good lowrider option parts, good engine, accurate in every way. But do you realize that the beancounters within Revell had the perfect reason to kill that great kit with this simple statement:

"You know, the builders are still buying AMT's 40 year old tooling of the 1964 Impala. Why should we risk losing tooling budget if they don't demand a better kit than that and if we'll only get a portion of the AMT sales instead of cornering the market with a different subject?"

So long as we're permissive of flaws that military modelers abhor, we'll never receive the same level of treatment as military modelers. We accept wheels that are the wrong diameter, options that are cartoonish and don't represent real options or accessories, incomplete decals, incorrect chassis, metal axles going through engine blocks, visible interior tubs, hollow seatbacks, and the list goes on and on.

Auto modelers, stop accepting the scraps that are tossed at you. We're treated like second class citizens in the scale modeling world because we act as if we don't care.

And, by the way, many aircraft and armor kits are modified reissues, usually just new decal sets with some new sprues of parts thrown in to make a different version. For instance, Hasegawa gets a lot of life out of kits of planes like the F4 Phantom and the F-16 Falcon by doing decal variants of different squadrons and nations.

Please don't misunderstand me on 'Military subject'. I myself build those too, mainly on Russian and most guns(Leopord, Karl, pak, etc).
Tamiya did not really produced it very detail but because this job is leave to after-market like Aber and Eduard. The etching is so detail that basically you doesn't need any wiring (except bigger than 1/35). Now Eduard even come in pre-painted etching. Tamiya had to brush up their products to fight mainly the China and Hong Kong brands like Trumpeter and Dragon. Their product is very detail and cheap too, in my SG Dragon tanks are mostly lower than $18, Leopard is consider the most expensive but to compare to Azumit resin Leopord.... is really big different. More and more military fans choose Dragon, Trumpeter and AFV(Taiwan), if Tamiya not going to do something, they will loose a place in market.
There are also lots of War Museum in the world that you could see the damage and detail. But really, how many auto museum in the world? Like LeMans, lots of the detail or even reference is very hard to find on web too.
Anyway, Consumers versus businessmen...is just like asking 'Which one come first, egg or chicken' :lol: I think manufacture do have their reason for release more or not on different model subject. Fujimi do released lots of models every year, but most of them is from 1 new mold and have dozen of different box art... that's not a decent thing that car modelers would buy too, so Tamiya release just a few models, but is excellent work in every way. We still buy it....as long it does not come in pre-painted body plus diecast chassis will do.

I just had to resurrect this thread when I read it. I was at a bookstore today, and I thought, "this place is pretty big, they should have some good modelling books". I searched for a while and found nothing, so I asked a girl at the desk. She looked in the computer for car models and found nothing. Then she asked, "Do you mean like toy cars?" I said nevermind. I even remember when Wal-Mart had nearly a full isle of models. Now they have like three square feet of Testors crap and 4-5 model kits that are snap-tight. We are a dying breed I guess.

In Sweden you could buy modelkits in the toy-store just a few years ago. Today there is "paint-and-brush-included"-kits of crappy quality in the corner furthest away from the door..

I think this simply comes down to, as already stated supply and demand and also the licensing of certain products. Military products always seem to be popular simply because they attract to the biggest want in the human mind. This being the most infectious and almost wanton act the human mind can conjure, and this is destructiveness. I mean how many times do we watch the news to be horrified about the use of military power, but still look in awe at battleships, aircraft carriers and tanks performing bombardments. Apache helicopters launching missiles, tanks trundling along in a line. It all looks so fantastic, and hence we, well lets face it, most want to recreate them fuelling their (dare I say) fetish towards these fantastic machines, so they build models of them.

I know I sometimes look in awe of fighter planes, tanks etc.. But they still mean destruction. Even if the person building them is creative, they still appeal to that destructive side of all of us. Maybe this is the cynical side of me coming out, or maybe I’m talking codswallop. It could also be a total pretence that military models are popular, I doubt it. There are so many of them.

I will also agree that military models are easy to build. Not simplistic enough so that anyone can build military models. They still require skill, in some case lots of expertise, as camouflage painting, detailing of battle damage, full blown dioramas can be painfully slow going, however with a model car, time has to be spent getting the finish showroom quality but not always achievable, whereas the time invested in a tank still could yield good results even if a mistake is made. A challenger tank from the British Army will not display a showroom finish, not even new. So recreating this main battle tank involves more attention to detail (hence a larger market for detail up parts) then actual finish.

Military battleships are almost the same. The matt finish colours and dull finish are more suitable, and more detailing is required. Don’t get me wrong a car can be just as detailed, but that final body finish has to be pristine, therefore the compulsion to keep building model cars can wither a little after a few failures, whereas with a model tank if the finish is not up to scratch, most of the time, as long as the detail is there and model proportions are correct, it will look nice in that display case.

I was in a model shop only today. I took the time to look at military models. I too was overwhelmed with the amount of military models on display. Some great kits, whereas the bikes and car stand was well stocked, no where near the same amount of cars, bikes etc to the amount of tanks, plane, ships etc..

In Sweden you could buy modelkits in the toy-store just a few years ago. Today there is "paint-and-brush-included"-kits of crappy quality in the corner furthest away from the door..

Tell me about it, Airfix, Heller etc .......... drives me frigging :cya: !!!

Thank god we've the Internet.

Mike.

it is pretty sad when you buy a kit that you like such as Fujimi kit,you look at the box and think wow great photo you then open the box and fall into tears,only 20 or so parts and those kits are not cheap.

Sorry but I don't think there's anything wrong with the motor market. The only time I notice the military kits is if I venture into my lhs (which isn't that often as they don't supply anything I need).

There are thousands of kits out there in the world wide web and also enormous amounts of aftermarket detail. If you're willing to pay that little bit extra for the postage then you're spoiled for choice.

Granted, the detail in car kits won't reach that of the military but why should it. When I look at kits which Hiroboy, Rallyraider et al produce, are you not astounded by the finish and detail? For me, I would be quite happy to get to their standard & once I get there, will I still have the same appreciation for car kits or will they be too easy at that point?

Besides, what extra detail can be added to the kits we have which aren't already available? If something isn't available I'd be more proud if I was able to scratchbuild it anyway.

Besides, what extra detail can be added to the kits we have which aren't already available? .

I still haven`t seen decals for the smallprint on carwindows. You know, the small ones with manufacturer name,usually at the very bottom of the sidewindow..
:disappoin

Hey I have too just like that. Are they worth anything?

My few cents:
- One reason military models are so plentiful is that, until recently anyway, nobody had to pay licensing fees on them. That is changing with the plane market, and will probably change with the land vehicles as well. Licensing fees and manfuacturer approval are becoming big factors in making cars, and will probably affect 'armor' modelers as well.

- Not everybody has the skills to super-detail a model kit. I don't demand to have an insane level of detail included in the box, and I'm not a stickler for 100% accuracy unless it's major (I don't care if the upholstry pattern in the front seats of a Camaro run vertically and not horizontally) but I would like to see an effort to improve the fit and design of the kits. Revell has taken some great steps lately in this department, their Tuner series cars especially, but it seems like AMT has taken a step back: Their new-tool Monster Jam trucks look worse then their 4 decade old re-releases. In short, I don't mind adding extra details, but I don't like correcting assembly flaws like excess flashing or warped or mis-aligned parts.

- Are car modelers willing to pay the price for added detail and quality? Part of the cost of the Japanese kits is in the yen versus the dollar, and the cost of importing them, but the superior tooling and design doesn't come cheap either. If you only want to pay $12-15 for a typical kit, the manufacturers will have to take some shortcuts. If you don't mind paying $20-25 for a kit, I'm sure the companies would oblige with a better product.