i need some timing or distributor help

(edit):this is an 89 crx DX

about 2 hours ago i was driving to work as i always do on saturday morning. suddenly my car starts sputtering and i get a check engine light. i began to pull over thinking i could possibly make it run slowly to the next exit. the car began sputtering worse, giving me a brief second of power and then nothing. after stopping, i tried to start it to see what would happen. and it sputtered and popped. smelled like it was burning oil or something. to shorten the story, i got it towed home (just a couple miles away) and checked the obvious. the timing belt appeared undamaged. i'm not sure when it was last changed, but it looked as if it was changed at least within the last couple years. (i'm not the original owner).

i decided to check the distributor cap and rotor. if you recall, i mentioned some noises and noted that it appeared the rotor was actually physically contacting metal pins in the cap. well, when i took the cap off today i noted that the rotor swung about freely. the screw was gone.

i thought i had it fixed. i had an extra rotor screw, since i saved everything from that cap and rotor change. i put it on and it seemed to run fine. i went inside, got cleaned up for work and was about to leave when i noticed the check engine light was on. i turned the engine off and started it again, and within a few seconds , just after the rpms dropped below 1000 after the engine decided it was warm enough, the light came on again.

you'll probably ask me which code the engine is throwing, but i don't have a device to check that myself. i'm thinking auto zone, or advance auto parts might do that for free, but i'll find out later.

does anyone have any advice as to what to check here? i've pulled the cap and rotor back off to ensure i had them on correctly and everything seems fine. i even tried resetting the ecu (i read that you disconnect the negative battery terminal and/or pull a certain fuse, so i disconnected the battery, and pulled any fuse i thought it could possibly be, and let it sit a few minutes, and then put everything back)

other than the engine slowing its rpms and the light coming on, it's running as it always has. in fact, i can keep the light from coming on if i keep my foot on the accelerator and keep the rpms from falling below 1000. i'm sure this isn't an issue about the idle being too low, because it's run fine at this idle speed (500 - 700 rpms) since i bought it.

any of your wisdom would be greatly appreciated, as i'm in a pinch now. i've got final exams coming up, i've got to work tomorrow and next week, and.. uh... i have a date at the end of next week after exams. yeah, i haven't been on a date in 3 years, so that's a priority right now... so anyway. i'll shut up now and listen to what you have to say.

to check the code your ecu is putting out, pull the passenger side carpet down (where your feet go) from the top. you will see a metal panel with a window in it , turn your key to the "run" position or start it and count how many times the light in the window flashes. it should be a pulse- pause its really easy. and no need for an auto parts store you cant plug in to our system like you can on newer cars.

ok. looks like a code 4.

4 flashes

and this is when the key is in the on position and when the engine is running before and after the check engine light comes on.

what i just looked up says "crank angle sensor"

i'm guessing that my timing is off now.

i dug around and found a working inductive timing light, so... any suggestions would be great. in the mean time i'm gonna try to learn to use this thing.


one thing i did notice, however.

when i replaced my rotor, i noticed that both the distributor and the new rotor both had a flat part. how can i explain... the bottom of the distributor is a cylinder. the underside and interior is a metal cylinder with one flat side that corresponds with the where the screw hole is. the distributor has a similar shape on the housing where the rotor slides on. i swear, when i replaced it, that the flat side on the rotor and the flat side on the distributor corresponded, or lined up with one another, and now they do not. am i just crazy, or has something gotten misaligned? does anyone know what i'm speaking of?


also, i cannot find the timing adjuster connector. my manual says it's at the "left rear of the engine bay" and the sticker on the hood says "right side" so i'm assuming "left rear" means my right when i'm facing the car. either way there are several connectors in either location, and none of them have the brown/green and white wires that i'm supposed to jump to check timing.

The connector is on the left (driver's) side of the engine bay. Its just a connector with a tan rubber cap on it. You might have messed up your distributor. The screw came off my rotor a while back when i was coming back from the drag strip. I put it back on and my distributor gave out a week later.

It is a real stupid design. I had the same issue with my dizzy. All other cars I have had had a pined rotor and it acutually fit tight on the shaft with no play, also dont buy cheap rotors. I went through three in two weeks due the plastic heating up and getting loose on the mounting and flopping around and no amount of tighting of the screw helped.

Did you fish the screw out of the Dizzy?
It may have fell into the bottom, that is were the TDC sensor is. I had one fail. Sucks becuase you cannot replace the sensor, the whole dizzy need to get replaced.

well, i was thinking it was the timing. i cannot figure out where to shine this blasted light. so i was just gonna do it blindly. i was gonna adjust the dizzy until the engine ran a little better. i can see markings on the camshaft pulley, however, i don't see any arrows to line it up with, so i'm lost. i do notice, however, that the part that says "UP" on the camshaft gear is down when the light hits it. funny. the two side markings seem to be level with the edges of the valve cover. another marking on the top seems to be pointing to whereever it wants up and to the right.

i was going to try to loosten and adjust the dizzy, but i have rounded off the top of the bolt on top. it's stupid. it's obviously a 12mm bolt. 11 won't fit, but 12 has too much play in it. i tried using us tools. a 7/16 is too small, and a 1/2 (8/16) is too big. i'm so frustrated i could spit. i can't even adjust the distributor much less get it off. and where oh where will i get bolts to replace these if i do manage to get them off? it's that odd 4x100 thread pattern isn't it? nothing in a hardware store has ever fit correctly on my car.

i'm just hoping a new distributor would come with bolts as well.

the thing that puzzles me is that the car seems to run fine until that engine light comes on, and then it jumps and jiggles around just like it did on the interstate, but not quite as bad. it keeps happening even though i've found the connector you described and jumped the appropriate wires (the brown/green and white/blue).

guess i'll be checking ebay for a new distributor unless one of you guys have a stock dx dizzy lying around in good condition (with bolts, cause i'm liable to just use a pipe wrench and force these suckers off).

i'm sorry i keep on talking about this, heh.

anyway, i decided to hunt for that screw i never found in my dizzy. so i pull off the cap and as i'm inspecting the pins inside again, i notice that a spring loaded pin that inserts into a hole at the top of the distributor has broken off. could i have broken this piece when i was putting everything back together? it's possible. i had never noticed the spring loaded piece before. now part of it is broken off, and it's clearly not inserting all the way into it's spot on the dizzy. the car would run like this, though, just not well. does this, perhaps, have anything to do with timing?

while you're pondering your answer to the double jeopardy question, i'm going to go buy a new cap. since this one is so new i'll see if i can get a refund on it.

That is another grip I have with the design.
I broke two caps becuase I have a extra large battery and tried to get the thing out without taking the whole dizzy off. Even then it is hard to not break the deal.

Interesting that you couldnt find the screw, could have fell out I guess.

The pin inserts into the coil.
It wouldnt give you the problem you are describing though, the car just wouldnt fire at all.

My bad I saw that you were talking about the CAS, that is located on the top side of the Dizzy. There is a multi prong deal at the base of the shaft that has a magnetic sensor oppsite (little metal strip) that is embedded in a black (on mine) plastic deal about 2 inches long and has 2 wires comming out on one end. I would look at the clearence or maybe any damage to the protrusions on the shaft.

I dont think that adjusting the timing will fix your issue. you can get pm5 dizzys cheap tho. I had one after my swap that I tried to sell for 5 months at $20. They go on eBay for like $10 plus shipping.

Oh to adjust the timing the arrows are on the right side of the motor mounts on the cam cover. There are two setup like a gun site.

ah. gun sight. i see it now. doesn't look like the timing is off, honestly.

well, i suppose i'll get me an ebay dizzy, and go ahead and rip these bolts to shreds taking them off. fun times ahead, guys. oh well, at least it'll run well, and at least it's less than $100 for the part. thanks for all the help and suggestions.

yeah i broke off my little plug thing on the dist cap that goes into the coil and my car still ran fine

I suppose that if you leave it in there that the parts will still contact each other. Though it will make your coil work much harder as ther is no real good contact. You will also get some arc but that will really cook the coil.

As for the bolts, good luck my friend. They suck big time. I stripped the top one and it was a bastard to get off. I used large channellocks (mechanics best friend :)) and alot of grip strength.

The bottom ones you should be able to get a strait shot if you take the battery out and use a six point socket unless you really messed them up then get a size smaller (may use standards) and hammer them on. Getting a pipe wrench will be really rough, if you could at all. A friend had to cut the top head off with a dremmel and remove the stud.

any idea where to get bolts with the correct bolt pattern to replace the ones i am certain i'll kill removing this thing?

I just used some standard metric ones with a flanged head that I had sitting in a box that were the same length, size, standard course thread pattern, fit perfect and are easer to get out since they are not the funky size the orignals are.

Hardware stores have flange head metric too. Just take one of the wrecked ones and mach the thread and size.

got the bolt loose with a pair of vice grips. i love vice grips. and breaker bars. and hydraulic jacks. and manual transmissions. you'll laugh, but the reason the head of the bolt stripped... well... i was turning it the wrong direction.


anyway, got the dizzy off no problem. looked inside it more closely and just like you said, there was that damn screw sitting there against the bottom of the dizzy. magnetic, i suppose.

i noticed some damage to the plastic part that has 3 connectors coming out of the top. THAT is probably the crank angle sensor. i put it back on and got the same check engine light and ecu code as before.

it's e-bay time.

thanks for the help. i like this forum.

The thing with the three push connectors is the ignitor.

The thing I was talking about has two hardwire connections comming out of the side corner, it is curved, in the middle of the curve on the rotor side will be a thin metal strip that lines up with some splines on the base of impeller shaft under the rotor, that is the CAS.

I was brain dead, I ment vicegrips not channel locks, durrrr...

Good luck with ebay!
I got my PM6 dizzy, the auction said that he didnt know if it worked and I took a chance and I got a almost new rebuilt one for under $30 shipped (only bidder) mad cheap, most go over $50 w/o shipping.

But for they PM5 the are dime a dozen.

i don't know what the deal is today, but i couldn't find one under $55. so i went ahead and splurged, because i need one, and soon.

Ouch, Thy these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7938463836&category=33690

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7939042107&category=46098

Tho you will have to wait to get it cheap. If you dont have the time then sorry bout that...