support the Marine acused of murder

If it was your town, what would you do? Run away?

With the possibility of almost certain death facing me and I didn't want anything to do woth the fight? Yep.

Your president has invaded their country and is culpable for every murder committed so that he may continue his occupation.The 'free elections' will be a joke,with only 'approved candidates' being allowed to stand.
The new government will be seen as lackeys to UScommercial interests and attacked at every opportunity.Surprise surprise, the US will be staying for a very long time to enforce Bush's ridiculous travesty of a free Iraq.

As I said...I am not going to rehash this overdone subject. Feel free to rant on about it.

There were many people who were left in the city who had no intent to fight, but had no where to go - hiding in their houses, burying their innocent dead in their gardens, etc.

You are probably right, he likely was an "insurgent," but my point is that you can't just objectify every Iraqi in the town as a robot with a gun and an urge to kill. Again, reverse the roles. You are a marine fighting off invading Iraqis - you've been wounded in a previous attack. You've run out of weapons and you're scared for your life. The Iraqis, a group claiming to be a humanitarian, civilized bunch claim they will return to give you medical care so you can see your family again. You're more or less the only remaining living American in the building when a large group of armed Iraqis storms in again. Wounded, unarmed, and hugely outnumbered, would you try to attack, or wait innocently for help?Radical, extremist, sure, but "Muslim" is a prejudice.

I can't put myself in his place so I don't know what I would do. I know I wouldn't run to a place where the radicals have been known to hide out and where other Iraqis have been shot (by these same radicals) as they tried to look for medical help.

They called themselves muslims. Are they also prejudice?

Anyways, I must applaud the strange ability of many Americans to be able to be fully convinced that their cause is right and true, and that the rest of the world has got it all wrong - I wish I could have that level of conviction, it would certainly make life a whole lot simpler...

I didn't say our cause was right. I don't think we belong in Iraq. But I know a radical muslim when I see one. Especially when he announces it to the world. (Not all muslims are radicals)

And a court trial would establish whether or not he was justified to feel threatened by a man who was,by the Marine's own word,"faking dead".

On what I have seen, he shot a nunarmed man laying on the floor.If there is any evuidence that the victim had any means of harming a squad of heavily-armed Marines, bring it on. Lets see it.Because until someone shows me means and motive, there's a victim, and a coward with a rifle.

Here is the real problem. Why does the United States or this Marine have anything to prove to you? Last time I checked we were still sovereign.

Also, this is not a police officer on the streets of Tokyo this is a war and by legal standards the Iraqi was a partisan. Even if he was in a uniform, by any military conventionn this Marine was 100% justified in shooting the terrorist as any enemy combatant is a threat unless they are surrendering or visibly wounded in a way that prohibits them from fighting. I missed him attempting to surrender, and there were no visible wounds of a grave nature.

It is also worth mentioning that in cases where bodies have been booby-trapped, etc. no convention of which I am aware requires you to give the enemy the benefit of the doubt in a questionable situation. And, these laws only protect uniformed men (I assume you know what a uniform is?), this guy is considered a spy by virtually every convention and can therefore be executed on the spot regardless of the situation.

If this had been me in the Marine's situation, and those were my men there would be no doubt in my mind that this guy poses an immediate threat of ambush and had better speak up quick or he is going to get a few hundred gains heavier in a hurry. If he was too wounded to speak up and the wounds were not clearly visible then that would be truly unfortunate, but that is simply how it is and I would not lose one nights sleep over it. And, I would expect no different treament from the enemy if my "side" was using the same tactics they do and I were in his situation. If they want this to stop change tactics.

Since you apparently are completely unaware of the rules of war you apparently feel have been violatated one can only assume the truth you claim to seek was not important enough for you to bother looking up. In light of this it would appear that you simply intend to use this situation to spew anti-American rhetoric. No surprise really, but it does not do a lot to help your argument. Especially considering how many times you have asked for "proof" yourself.

If you have a problem with what happened then how about you find proof that this action was unjustifiable or illegal? Your opinion that issue simply does not cut it as binding.

Last time I checked we were still sovereign.


! :eek: :spit:

Once again, the righteous, almighty saviors of the world, the United States of America, are shown to be the leaders of the world! U-S-A! U-S-A!


Fuck dude. Get over yourself. Have you even been to (visit) another country?

Yes, the United States has the "most powerful military" in the world. However, you are in no way sovereign over the rest of the world, and have no right to be anyways.

Also, all it would take is one nuclear bomb to Washington, DC, and the US would be severely crippled. It's just that anywhere with the capability to do that has enough sense to try to maintain world peace rather than annihilation.

By making a statement like that, you're just reinforcing the rest of the world's utter disgust with the U.S. :nono:

There is more than enough evidence on this piece of videotape to at least hold a preliminary inquiry as to whether the victim was murdered,or [ironic laugh]the Marine acted within the rules of the Geneva Convention.
At least the crew that recorded this event didn't try to cover it up and pretend it didn't happen.

You wouldn't know the Geneva convention if it bit you on the ass. Here is a Centcom report from five day before the Marine shot the insurgent. It is one of many like incidents happening in the country. Of course, you will state that Centcom is not good enough for you, but what you fail to realize is...nobody over here cares about your standards.

Have a nice day :)

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/release_list.asp?searchType=1&searchDays=20&searchTopic=

but what you fail to realize is...nobody over here cares about your standards.

Clearly 48% of you do.

! :eek: :spit:

Once again, the righteous, almighty saviors of the world, the United States of America, are shown to be the leaders of the world! U-S-A! U-S-A!


Fuck dude. Get over yourself. Have you even been to (visit) another country?

Yes, the United States has the "most powerful military" in the world. However, you are in no way sovereign over the rest of the world, and have no right to be anyways.

Also, all it would take is one nuclear bomb to Washington, DC, and the US would be severely crippled. It's just that anywhere with the capability to do that has enough sense to try to maintain world peace rather than annihilation.

By making a statement like that, you're just reinforcing the rest of the world's utter disgust with the U.S. :nono:


I wasn't claiming sovereignty over the world I was claiming sovereignty over our own nation and soil. Considering that America has never been a sovereign power over the entire world, but has always emphasized her sovereignty in matters of self-governace (especially of late) I figured this would be obvious, but apparently some folks need more help than others. A dictionary in the hands of the wrong person is apparently a dangerous tool. roflmao

Your anti-America bias has colored your opinions to such an extent that it apparently affects your ability to reason. Might I suggest counseling or some other form of therapy.

And yes "dude", I have been to other countries. Among them Jamaica, England, and Brazil. What that has to do with your statment or mine is beyond me.

One thing that just occured to me (no idea why I didn't think of this earlier)...

Why on earth would anyone be opposed to the marine being court-martialed? Even the people who maintain that he is innocent should want it - then if he is proven innocent, you can all rightfully stick your tongues out at us. By being opposed to a trial, you're showing that you're afraid he'll be found guilty, heaven forbid :rolleyes:

Clearly 48% of you do.

Touch'e. Can we send them over to you?

One thing that just occured to me (no idea why I didn't think of this earlier)...

Why on earth would anyone be opposed to the marine being court-martialed? Even the people who maintain that he is innocent should want it - then if he is proven innocent, you can all rightfully stick your tongues out at us. By being opposed to a trial, you're showing that you're afraid he'll be found guilty, heaven forbid :rolleyes:

Why should he be charged without what we feel is proper evidence? I see nothing on that tape that leads me to believe he violated any law. But, I can only gather from your statement that from now on we are supposed to charge everyone who does something that bothers you or anyone abroad with a crime and see if it holds water? Brilliant idea....lol.

If that system works for you so be it, you can keep it. Sounds like a civil rights marvel to me. ;)

Heep, Bloke,

I misspoke. I did say the rest of the world, but I meant to say the whole world.

However my statement that billions of people don't give two shits about the Iraqi situation still stands. I'd venture a billion in China and a billion in India are totally unconcerned. Large portions of Africa have their own issues. So that cuts that 200 countries and 6 billion people down pretty damn quick.


As for the marine that this thread was started on - we had a thread on this before. Everything I said there still stands. There is enough question of what happened to do an investigation. Its also only a snapshot of what was happening at that location for a brief moment in time. The situation as observed by those of us thousands of miles away and the real dangers faced by that marine and his troop cannot be assessed by that video. Let the investigation continue. Other marines have been convicted of abuses by the US military so why should this be treated any different?

I wasn't claiming sovereignty over the world I was claiming sovereignty over our own nation and soil. Considering that America has never been a sovereign power over the entire world, but has always emphasized her sovereignty in matters of self-governace (especially of late) I figured this would be obvious, but apparently some folks need more help than others. A dictionary in the hands of the wrong person is apparently a dangerous tool. roflmao

Your anti-America bias has colored your opinions to such an extent that it apparently affects your ability to reason. Might I suggest counseling or some other form of therapy.

And yes "dude", I have been to other countries. Among them Jamaica, England, and Brazil. What that has to do with your statment or mine is beyond me.

Apologies then, I clearly mis-interpreted your "sovereignty" statement. The way it was phrased, I (and I'm afraid likely many others) could only see it as implying sovereignty over the world, as every country has soverignty over themselves, and that doesn't need to be stated.

And yes, I do have an anti-American bias. Not a prejudice at all, since I was not born with it - I've developed it because all I've seen, all my life, is Americans parading around saying "this is the best country in the world," clearly feeling the need to control the entire world and stick their noses in other country's business. As a Canadian, I've been publicly mocked and spit on when visiting the US (and trying to buy things, supporting your economy!). I've had people there refuse me business because of my nationality. I've had people scream their hatred of me and "my people." Have I developed an Anti-American bias? You're damn right I have.

America has done well for itself, but they need to start respecting others, and need to keep to themselves if they want respect. Ever thought that perhaps incidents like the WTC would never have happened if the U.S. hadn't been going around being "terrorists" to other countries?

Either way, my ability to reason stands. It's just that I don't reason with the same viewpoint as you.

My statement asking if you've been to other countries was there because it does (did?) not seem that you have a very good grasp on the world's view of America, or that other countries operate different, and do not even want the American way of life. The statement was, more than anything, based upon my mis-interpretation of your "soverignty."

Anyways, one belief I've always had is that if people wanted the American way of life, they would move to America. The US has no right to boss other countries around.

Why should he be charged without what we feel is proper evidence? I see nothing on that tape that leads me to believe he violated any law.

Wounded, unarmed, outnumbered, non-attacking man shot twice in face by (mostly) mobile, armed, advantaged, attacking man.

Based on that, I see reason to conduct an investigation and trial. A trial is not necessarily a conviction, and if he's innocent, then he has nothing to worry about. In fact, if anything, it gets him out of having to deal with the shit going on over there.

Apologies then, I clearly mis-interpreted your "sovereignty" statement. The way it was phrased, I (and I'm afraid likely many others) could only see it as implying sovereignty over the world, as every country has soverignty over themselves, and that doesn't need to be stated.

And yes, I do have an anti-American bias. Not a prejudice at all, since I was not born with it - I've developed it because all I've seen, all my life, is Americans parading around saying "this is the best country in the world," clearly feeling the need to control the entire world and stick their noses in other country's business. As a Canadian, I've been publicly mocked and spit on when visiting the US (and trying to buy things, supporting your economy!). I've had people there refuse me business because of my nationality. I've had people scream their hatred of me and "my people." Have I developed an Anti-American bias? You're damn right I have.

America has done well for itself, but they need to start respecting others, and need to keep to themselves if they want respect. Ever thought that perhaps incidents like the WTC would never have happened if the U.S. hadn't been going around being "terrorists" to other countries?

Either way, my ability to reason stands. It's just that I don't reason with the same viewpoint as you.

My statement asking if you've been to other countries was there because it does (did?) not seem that you have a very good grasp on the world's view of America, or that other countries operate different, and do not even want the American way of life. The statement was, more than anything, based upon my mis-interpretation of your "soverignty."

Anyways, one belief I've always had is that if people wanted the American way of life, they would move to America. The US has no right to boss other countries around.

After reading your post I would argue that the reason for the misinterpretation is more likely due to a difference in how we each view the current world situation....... I'll explain.

I disagree that every nation is sovereign. They should be when possible, but many nations have IMO and that of many other Americans given away part of their sovereignty already to one super-nationalist group or another. The EU is one example and the UN is another.

The UN was designed as a forum for nations to debate and come together in hopes of improving the world...great idea. However, the UN is bordering dangerously close on the grounds of governance which is totally contrary to it's intended role and a violation of every states sovereignty that allows it.

The assumption by Annan that the UN can forbid America from taking military action is an example of this. The idea that nations can come together and decide what America is doing is wrong and do something about it is one thing, and a purpose I believe the UN was formed to serve. But, the idea that the UN has laws (only govts have enforcable laws btw) that make it illegal for us to go to war without UN approval.....how is that anything but an affront to our sovereignty?

I think this difference in how the two of us view the world is the most likely cause of the misunderstanding. And in truth, it could be the best indication of the difference in viewpoints yet found in this thread.

Wounded, unarmed, outnumbered, non-attacking man shot twice in face by (mostly) mobile, armed, advantaged, attacking man.

Based on that, I see reason to conduct an investigation and trial. A trial is not necessarily a conviction, and if he's innocent, then he has nothing to worry about. In fact, if anything, it gets him out of having to deal with the shit going on over there.

And yet another disagreement in basic thinking. You have heard my opinion on this and I see no reason to repeat myself in any length. That said, I obviously disagree.

Funny how just about every debating thread starts with un-informed, blanket statements, then progresses to a few people making very valid, informed arguements in both directions, then ends with everybody agreeing to disagree :D

I hope that marine gets sentenced to life. Theres absolutley no excuse of what he did. If they found him not guilty...US is digging a deeper hole ...deep enough that they can never climb out of. Iraqis will seek justice, one way or another. Fuck him and i'm not signing shit for that fuck up.

US is digging a deeper hole ...deep enough that they can never climb out of. Iraqis will seek justice, one way or another.

I have to agree with you there - I'm afraid the U.S. will go too far and the rest of the world will have to say "enough!" As it is right now they don't seem much different than Nazi Germany, which is a very sad thing indeed :(

Funny how just about every debating thread starts with un-informed, blanket statements, then progresses to a few people making very valid, informed arguements in both directions, then ends with everybody agreeing to disagree :DNo it just shows how people can see the ignorance in other people's arguments. Like mellow boy calling the marine a fuck-up. Obviously neither heep nor mellow boy have been faced with a split second combat experience. We can all sit back and play arm chair generals, but nobody knows what they would have done in that situation.

And as for your bad experiences in the USA im calling BS. I live in Texas and I have never seen hatred like that towards Canada. Its funny how you bring up the situation as you are loosing your argument to
syr74! Nobody says you have to like America, just dont come back!

I'd venture a billion in China and a billion in India are totally unconcerned
And for good reason, who'd care about a poor little country with no WMDs when you live in a giant country thousands of miles away? The only country that got a wild hair up it's ass about Iraq was the United States.

No it just shows how people can see the ignorance in other people's arguments. Like mellow boy calling the marine a fuck-up. Obviously neither heep nor mellow boy have been faced with a split second combat experience. We can all sit back and play arm chair generals, but nobody knows what they would have done in that situation.

And as for your bad experiences in the USA im calling BS. I live in Texas and I have never seen hatred like that towards Canada. Its funny how you bring up the situation as you are loosing your argument to
syr74! Nobody says you have to like America, just dont come back!I'm not being ignorant to your arguments, I'm just not agreeing with them. Neither of us can ever prove we are right, just some people are more open to other possibilities, while some are convinced they can never be wrong.

As for my bad experiences in the USA, call BS if you want, it doesn't change what's happened. I've never been to Texas so I have no idea what people are like there. I shouldn't be biased against the whole of the U.S. as nearly every state feels differently. I do, in fact, like the people in Florida, Alabama, and Maine, but some other states, notably New York, Mass., and Georgia are extremely rude, obnoxious, and ignorant towards Canadians, in my experience. I did not bring up that situation as a "last gasp effort" in my argument with syr74, I brought it up to explain why I have an anti-American bias, as he accused me of.

And no, nobody does say I have to like America. If it were up to me, I wouldn't come back, and I refrain from entering as much as possible. But with a sister that lives there, and a father who must often attend meetings and expos there, I often have very little choice. When there, I don't even make any reference to my nationality for fear of being hated. Interestingly enough, the people that have mocked me have been extremely pleasant until asking where I'm from, and then at that point completely changed their attitude towards me.

BTW, you continue to rant about how I cannot judge how that marine feels, since I have not been there. That is true. However, right after that you try to judge how I feel about America, even though you have not been in my shoes!

We can all sit back and play arm chair generals, but nobody knows what they would have done in that situation.
The point here is that we want to figure out wtheter or not the killing was pre-meditated or if he was actually doing his job. One being of "good cause" and wanting to help the world, why not ease the tension of other countries by putting this man on trial? If he truely isn't guilty, then he has nothing to fear right?
I guess they were also doing the wrong thing by taking the few found guilty of the Abu-Gharib prison incident to court after the pictures were released. I mean it's not like they found other instances where the same type of behaviour was found years afterwards :rolleyes:

And as for your bad experiences in the USA im calling BS. I live in Texas and I have never seen hatred like that towards Canada. Its funny how you bring up the situation as you are loosing your argument to
syr74! Nobody says you have to like America, just dont come back!
Just cuz you don't see something doesn't mean it's not there. I've been to the States many times, visited New York last summer. I thought the people in Queens were very pleasant people, but there were the ignorant ones too....is that BS as well?

while i hate to put this man on trial to appease other nations, the fact remains that appears to be lots of controvery about the topic.

what better way to settle it than with a trial?

The point here is that we want to figure out wtheter or not the killing was pre-meditated or if he was actually doing his job. One being of "good cause" and wanting to help the world, why not ease the tension of other countries by putting this man on trial? If he truely isn't guilty, then he has nothing to fear right?
I guess they were also doing the wrong thing by taking the few found guilty of the Abu-Gharib prison incident to court after the pictures were released. I mean it's not like they found other instances where the same type of behaviour was found years afterwards :rolleyes:


Just cuz you don't see something doesn't mean it's not there. I've been to the States many times, visited New York last summer. I thought the people in Queens were very pleasant people, but there were the ignorant ones too....is that BS as well?The abu graib* incident is an entirely different accusation. Reservist who have to take care of prisoners and have a little fun with them is totally wrong. On the other hand a marine in a combat environment that has to make life and death decisions. Its apples and oranges. The abu graib* people should and will be punished.

Anywhere you go you will find ignorant people. New York in general is filled with rude people. Come and visit Texas, im sure your opinion on Americans will change, or maybe not.

Fuck you. Dont make excuses.Now if I would have said this I would have been banned, but since you go along with Taranaki's believes you will not! And good rebuttal by the way! :loser:

And good rebuttal by the way! :loser:

Lol I have to agree with you there - while I support his side of the debate, that was indeed a pretty useless rebuttal :iceslolan

Fuck you. Dont make excuses.

Another post like that and you will get a vacation from AF.

The abu graib* incident is an entirely different accusation. Reservist who have to take care of prisoners and have a little fun with them is totally wrong. On the other hand a marine in a combat environment that has to make life and death decisions. Its apples and oranges. The abu graib* people should and will be punished.
LOL, actually we're both wrong about that...it's Abu Ghraib.
Anyways, I have to say this again...we don;t know for sure if this was a "life and death" thought or it was a "kill them all" type idea. That is why we need to run an investigation and see what's going on. No I'm also not saying that everytime a soldier kills someone that they have to be trialed in order to get the reasoning behind it, but this was captured on camera...so far what's on video goes against the soldier.

Anywhere you go you will find ignorant people. New York in general is filled with rude people. Come and visit Texas, im sure your opinion on Americans will change, or maybe not.
Yes!, That's the point I was trying to get across. And again, the majority of the people I met were all nice (this being in november 2002 and me being an afghan). The customs officer knew that, he was still nice...the people in the city didn't know that, they were still either nice or idiotic. Id love to visit Texas but I guarantee you that it will not change my opinion on Americans, not that I hate them though. I just think that the majority of people (people in the world) are mis-informed on a lot of issues, and I don't know who to blame when it comes to those people relying on the news as a trusted source: the news or the people?

And as for your bad experiences in the USA im calling BS. I live in Texas and I have never seen hatred like that towards Canada. Its funny how you bring up the situation as you are loosing your argument to syr74! Nobody says you have to like America, just dont come back!
Until you said that I never thought about it. I have never seen or heard any blatant hatred against canada or really any other country. At least not openly. I'm not gonna hate any country or its citizens just the government. The only country outside of the U.S. ive visited(besides Mexico) is England. I loved every single minute of it. Definately want to go back to europe again someday. As well as a few others scattered around the globe.

Heep if you ever make your way to Texas I think you'll be pleasently surprised at the hospitality. I think that is the one thing Texans are known for. Well that and the bar-b-que. :biggrin: Never experienced any rudeness in other states ive been to.

Yeah they're great to me in Alabama, haha

I suppose I should clarify, my anti-American bias is only in part against citizens. Primarily, it is again the way the country is run, and the mindset that most Americans seem to have when it comes to their country and other countries. I'm also open to liking American citizens, but the vocal radicals have unfortunately put me in a position where individuals start off in my dislike like and must earn a place into my like list, as opposed to the opposite for other places I've been.

Edit: Haha, that just reminded me of a lady I met in Alabama who said "Yeah, we're real nice people down here, and so are you Canadians, it's just all those damn Yankees in between!" :lol2:

Actually i see were Heep is coming from. I'm at a big university with lots of international students including quite a few canadians. And most americans do make fun of them. Most canadians I've spoke with were quite upset about that.

And for good reason, who'd care about a poor little country with no WMDs when you live in a giant country thousands of miles away? The only country that got a wild hair up it's ass about Iraq was the United States.

Of course they didn't Iraq wouldn't attack China with anything. China would lob every nuke they had at them and turn the country into glass. The US would enough of the population demanding negotiations through the UN if Iraq had attacked and killed everyone in New York.

Edit: Haha, that just reminded me of a lady I met in Alabama who said "Yeah, we're real nice people down here, and so are you Canadians, it's just all those damn Yankees in between!" :lol2:
:lol2: Yea, thats one of the situations that some people actually talk shit about that I've been around. All the people from up North I've met are nice as hell and just plain cool to talk to. My parents went up there 4 out of the last 5 years. They said everyone was great. They even went a month after September 11th and said it was so crazy yet, amazing.

My dad's from New Jersey originally as well. And one of my friends is from New Jersey too. Damn, I never thought about that. Crazy.

Of course they didn't Iraq wouldn't attack China with anything. China would lob every nuke they had at them and turn the country into glass. The US would enough of the population demanding negotiations through the UN if Iraq had attacked and killed everyone in New York.
But it wasn't Iraq who attacked, for that matter it wasn't any nation in particular that attacked America. It was a group of radicals/extremists/terrorists etc... And plus I think America poses a bigger threat to Iraq than China....so I'm sure they would have that much sense to more afraid of the States then China or any other country.

at least his method of self defense was a lot cleaner than what he would've done to the guy pre-geneva. he followed his training to the dot. how do i know?? simple, i've had 3 family members serve, and they teach you to react in that exact same manner. if he moves, and you haven't walked by him yet. kill him. why won't the marines or armed forces back him up?? cuz people are stupid and would believe anything they see on tv, and they just hear the word murder, but they forget the word war. this isn't about whether we should be there or not, we are, and theres nothing we can do about that.

oh, and for those who want to know what would have happend to the insurgent in the old days, he would've been disabled by a bayonet stab to the back of the neck. don't know about you, but a double shot to the head is much more preferable.

at least his method of self defense was a lot cleaner than what he would've done to the guy pre-geneva. he followed his training to the dot. how do i know?? simple, i've had 3 family members serve, and they teach you to react in that exact same manner. if he moves, and you haven't walked by him yet. kill him. why won't the marines or armed forces back him up?? cuz people are stupid and would believe anything they see on tv, and they just hear the word murder, but they forget the word war. this isn't about whether we should be there or not, we are, and theres nothing we can do about that.

oh, and for those who want to know what would have happend to the insurgent in the old days, he would've been disabled by a bayonet stab to the back of the neck. don't know about you, but a double shot to the head is much more preferable.
1. The mosque had been taken care of the previous day by a group of marines, they treated the victims and left them there.
2.If this was procedure then every single soldier, captain, seargent should be backing him up with his actions
3.How much do we know on what was going through his head at that point? Nothing, so why not go with the trial if he thinks he's innocent, if he thinks that he followed precedure?

Lets all take a moment and try to put ourselves in that marines shoes....

You've just fought a huge battle against a formidable oppenent. You're doing a sweep of the city(keep in mind your the average marine who might not be informed of the whereabout's of all the "innocents") You go into a temple unknowing what's waiting for you in every corner or room. You look down at what appears to be an injured person(not knowing whether they're civilian or military you are skeptical). Then you see some slight movement out of them(you've seen plenty of your comrades die from enemy suicide's or enemies faking death) so you make an instinct decision and put a few rounds in him before he can do you harm.

Who knows if that's accurate; I still stand by my first statement that our soldiers shouldn't even be in these situations, they should be at home with their families right now celebrating the holiday's.

Lets all take a moment and try to put ourselves in that marines shoes....
Alright... I made a bad mistake, now I'm going to let people use pyscho-babble to defend my mistake.

Next time I screw up, I'm just going to blab on about recent experiences and bad memories.

You wouldn't know the Geneva convention if it bit you on the ass. Here is a Centcom report from five day before the Marine shot the insurgent. It is one of many like incidents happening in the country. Of course, you will state that Centcom is not good enough for you, but what you fail to realize is...nobody over here cares about your standards.

Have a nice day :)


I don't normally bother to debate finer points with those who just come to this forum to mouth off, but for you I will make an exception.As a former servant of her Majesty in the Royal Navy, with active duty experience,I am fully familiar with the Geneva Convention.If you dont believe that the Marines should be following it in Iraq you are a spineless coward who supports state-sponsored terrorism.Please dont tell me to have a nice day,I'd rather you crawled back under your rock and died slowly.

Another post like that and you will get a vacation from AF.


And like i give a shit? Iraq is my backround...u can expect my anger towards this whole war. I dont have to agree with that idiot cody cool or whatever. :rolleyes:

And like i give a shit? Iraq is my backround...u can expect my anger towards this whole war. I dont have to agree with that idiot cody cool or whatever. :rolleyes:
Just be.........mellow. :sunglasse
Not everyone in this forum supports the 'shoot first,don't ask questions later' mentality of the unthinking 'patriots'.

If half of these people were as 'patriotic' as they claim to be, they'd never have voted for a party that has bastardized everything good that America used to stand for.'Peace,freedom and free speech' used to actully carry weight as concepts.Under this President,they are just words being used to justify a thoroughly vicious and immoral land grab.

And like i give a shit? Iraq is my backround...u can expect my anger towards this whole war. I dont have to agree with that idiot cody cool or whatever. :rolleyes:

Then I suggest you try me.

I never said you need to shower hugs and kisses but attacking another user is grounds for a ban. You have the right to disagree with another poster but you don't have the right to tell anyone to fuck off.

We debate in this forum not everyone shares the same opnions and you need to respect the other posters. If you can't add to the debate stay quiet.

BTW some don't agree with you.

Ok fine i apologize. I just get a lil crazy when i see the video how that man got shot. I never did say anyone has to agree with me but i do expect the majority of this civilized world to realize what that marine did was wrong. I simply see no excuses on why he did it. I've seen videos on how the soldiers treat the Iraqi detainees. One guy was makin fun of arabic language and kicked the dude in the head! All the soldiers were laughing as if they were see'n Dave Chappelle stand up comedy show! That really pissed me off! The guy was tied up and he wasn't in no position to do anything! You go on and tell me whats the reason why they do these things to Iraqi ppl? Atleast Iraqi soldiers treated american soldiers very well when they where prisoners. It just shows how uncivilized our american troops are.

at least his method of self defense was a lot cleaner than what he would've done to the guy pre-geneva.

That is very true. However, this is post-Geneva, and we must go by the new rules now.

Lets all take a moment and try to put ourselves in that marines shoes....

I fully agree that it must have been very stressful and difficult for that marine, especially since he had just been shot a day (a few?) before. However, I still see no reason why he should not be tried. If he indeed was in the right, then he's free to go.

I'm not in support of either his guilt or innocence, I just want to see a trial and investigation carried out.

If I get very annoyed and stressed with someone, and lash out, I still admit my actions were questionable and go back and apologize the next day...

Ok fine i apologize. I just get a lil crazy when i see the video how that man got shot. I never did say anyone has to agree with me but i do expect the majority of this civilized world to realize what that marine did was wrong. I simply see no excuses on why he did it. I've seen videos on how the soldiers treat the Iraqi detainees. One guy was makin fun of arabic language and kicked the dude in the head! All the soldiers were laughing as if they were see'n Dave Chappelle stand up comedy show! That really pissed me off! The guy was tied up and he wasn't in no position to do anything! You go on and tell me whats the reason why they do these things to Iraqi ppl? Atleast Iraqi soldiers treated american soldiers very well when they where prisoners. It just shows how uncivilized our american troops are.

There you go, use the examples of 15 POS reservist soldiers to blast the entire U.S. military. :shakehead I am in total aggreement with you on how these soldiers acted. They sleep in barracks and get 3 hot meals a day and all they have to do is babysit some Iraqi POW's. But for some reason they thinks its justified to abuse their power. But these marines are not those soldiers. You say Iraq is your background, well ask the people of Ad Diwaniah* how the marines treated them. They loved us, they hated it when the Spanish took over after we left. We would constantly get letters from them telling us how much they preferred our presence.

Like I said, if you havent been in combat then you have no idea what its like to decide in a split second to shoot or not. I dont know what i would have done in that situation?

And like i give a shit? Iraq is my backround...u can expect my anger towards this whole war. I dont have to agree with that idiot cody cool or whatever. :rolleyes:

Wow, another insult! Thats 2. But since your beliefs are right along with Taranaki's you will not be given a timeout. Its funny how Taranaki feels that most conservatives are narrow minded yet he cant even be fair on a simple forum? :shakehead

But since your beliefs are right along with Taranaki's you will not be given a timeout.

There are more moderators than taranaki, including people supporting your side.

Wow, another insult! Thats 2. But since your beliefs are right along with Taranaki's you will not be given a timeout. Its funny how Taranaki feels that most conservatives are narrow minded yet he cant even be fair on a simple forum? :shakehead


Um did you get my pm? Or you chose not to accept my apology?

There you go, use the examples of 15 POS reservist soldiers to blast the entire U.S. military. :shakehead I am in total aggreement with you on how these soldiers acted. They sleep in barracks and get 3 hot meals a day and all they have to do is babysit some Iraqi POW's. But for some reason they thinks its justified to abuse their power. But these marines are not those soldiers. You say Iraq is your background, well ask the people of Ad Diwaniah* how the marines treated them. They loved us, they hated it when the Spanish took over after we left. We would constantly get letters from them telling us how much they preferred our presence.

Like I said, if you havent been in combat then you have no idea what its like to decide in a split second to shoot or not. I dont know what i would have done in that situation?



I agree with you, I'm sure most american soldiers have treated the iraqis very well, however you'll alway have the odd idiot here and there like in any army.

Now we simply don't know enough info to really make a judgement here. This marine might be one of those hateful idiots or he really might be inoccent. Its really had to make a proper judgement from a few seconds of footage. So the final decision should be up to the military court.

There you go, use the examples of 15 POS reservist soldiers to blast the entire U.S. military. :shakehead I am in total aggreement with you on how these soldiers acted. They sleep in barracks and get 3 hot meals a day and all they have to do is babysit some Iraqi POW's. But for some reason they thinks its justified to abuse their power. But these marines are not those soldiers. You say Iraq is your background, well ask the people of Ad Diwaniah* how the marines treated them. They loved us, they hated it when the Spanish took over after we left. We would constantly get letters from them telling us how much they preferred our presence.

Like I said, if you havent been in combat then you have no idea what its like to decide in a split second to shoot or not. I dont know what i would have done in that situation?



I have family and friends that lives in Iraq. They tell me whats goin on. I have customers that just came from Iraq who are Assyrians...they tell me whats goin on. I believe in my ppl's words than any of american soldiers. I dont have to be in combat to know whats goin on there. Iraqis show very good hospitality to anyone! Even to their enemies...but they're still enemies and they will not hesitate to kill them if they dont leave.

There are more moderators than taranaki, including people supporting your side.


I agree I am usually on the opposite side of Taranaki. I have no problem banning anyone from either side of the argument. In the end it comes down to enforcing the AF rules and not on what side of the fence you sit on.

Any naming calling by either side will be dealt with the same way with me. I can care less if you agree or disagree with my opnions. I will not tolerate anyone verbally abusing a poster here. We can debate the subject with name calling. In the end nothing will change you will still have your opnions and I will have mine but we need to keep it civil.

And I almost forgot Cody no need in the last post you made.

I will start with 3 day bans for anyone that starts the pissing match.

I have family and friends that lives in Iraq. They tell me whats goin on. I have customers that just came from Iraq who are Assyrians...they tell me whats goin on. I believe in my ppl's words than any of american soldiers. I dont have to be in combat to know whats goin on there. Iraqis show very good hospitality to anyone! Even to their enemies...but they're still enemies and they will not hesitate to kill them if they dont leave.
Yes i got your apology, and it is accepted. So did you actually live in Iraq, or does your family just live there? Have you been to Iraq? Have you heard of Ad Diwania? Im seriously just curious. Yes, i see how Iraqi's treat their enemies. I also see the heads of innocent sivilians being cut off on tv. I saw what the sunnis have done to the kurds and the shiites, and it wasnt very pleasent. Please forgive my ignorance, but did you mean syrians from syria?

I believe in my ppl's words than any of american soldiers. I dont have to be in combat to know whats goin on there. Iraqis show very good hospitality to anyone! Even to their enemies...but they're still enemies and they will not hesitate to kill them if they dont leave.
No bias here is there?

If you are in an adrenaline pumping war situation like the Marine was in THEN you can think more clearly while passing judgement.

Gladhatter,

If you're going to quote him, why leave out the part where he makes his point? Or don't you consider the leading sentences below are relevant :rolleyes: I have family and friends that lives in Iraq. They tell me whats goin on. I have customers that just came from Iraq who are Assyrians...they tell me whats goin on. I believe in my ppl's words than any of american soldiers. I dont have to be in combat to know whats goin on there. Iraqis show very good hospitality to anyone! Even to their enemies...but they're still enemies and they will not hesitate to kill them if they dont leave.

Yes i got your apology, and it is accepted. So did you actually live in Iraq, or does your family just live there? Have you been to Iraq? Have you heard of Ad Diwania? Im seriously just curious. Yes, i see how Iraqi's treat their enemies. I also see the heads of innocent sivilians being cut off on tv. I saw what the sunnis have done to the kurds and the shiites, and it wasnt very pleasent. Please forgive my ignorance, but did you mean syrians from syria?


Assyrians not syrians ;) They're the christian iraqis along with chaldean christians. Which i'm half chaldean from my mother and my father is a sunni muslim. Those innocent civilians who got beheaded where probably not iraqi IMO. My whole family believes they're foreigners. I think i know what area you're talkin about. I'm not too sure. Everything is all good though ;)

No bias here is there?

If you are in an adrenaline pumping war situation like the Marine was in THEN you can think more clearly while passing judgement.


I dont see why you're trying to make excuses for that marine. The Iraqis doesn't care what the excuses are. They're furious to see that one of there own kind been shot dead UNARMED! They'll be even more furious if that marine is found not guilty.

They'll be even more furious if that marine is found not guilty.

So you are saying no matter what the marine needs to be found guilty to please a group of people. Justice is blind to that if he is found not guilty or guilty will depend on the facts. There may never be a trial if the evidence doesn't support a trial.

Sitting at my desk typing out what I would of done is easy. I would of done the right thing. You can conclude what the right thing is on your own. But its not that easy when you are a solider in a hostile country getting shot at and having to worry about dieing walking around. Would I of done things differently I don't know, I can't relate to it since I have never been under that type of stress. But I can tell you I would do everything under my power to survive and live.

The man can barely move. I dont see how he can harm anyone? IF the marine is not found guilty, Iraqis take revenge very seriously.Just keep that in mind. If they see one of there people get shot by americans...of course they're goin to be angry reguardless on what the circumstances are.

round and round we go...