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muddywaters 92 Caprice Classic problems


muddywaters
11-30-2004, 04:18 AM
Well, if you read my initial "Allow me.." post, you know I love the Caprice and my story stopped at me getting the 92. I'm having a few problems with it but I'll give you the quick background story and then go on to the problems.

I got my 92 in 99 from Indianapolis where I was stationed at the time. It only had 45,000 miles on it. It's a V8 305. Runs perfect. Quiet. Burgundy in color. All power options, leather interior, luggage rack on the trunk and chrome on the lower half of the door. All stock. I've only seen two others like it. Another in Indy and one in Texas. This is the gold medal for me. After I got this car, I told my family I keeping this car for the rest of my life. Lo and behold, the weekend I tried to drive it up to Michigan, two days after I bought it, the fuel pump died. I had it towed to a shop and $700 dollars later it was replaced. Yeah, they got me. In 01, someone ripped the little "wing/spoiler" off the luggage rack. It made my car look crappy with just the "bars" on the trunk lid so I took them off. My car looked equally flawed because now I had like 16 little holes in the lid where the screws holding the bars were. Everybody was saying like $800 to close the holes and repaint the lid. Luckily, I found a trunk lid at a junkyard for $50 and had a small bodyshop switch it out and paint it for about $250. Everything was right in the world again. I've had no problems since.

Fast forward to the present. Problems galore. I'll try to go in the order in which the problems arose. First off, as of right now the odometer is just over 198,000 miles. I know thats lot in 5 years but most of it is either highway miles from driving back in forth from Indy to Michigan or Autobahn miles from touring Germany. At one point, I was getting a oil change every month. No lie. Anyway, on to the problems.

1. Early 2002, I went in for a oil change. I usually get 10/30w. On this day they said they were out but had 5/30w. I said okay. A couple of days later I could this weird tapping sound. A friend said it sounds like a loose "lifter".

2. 02, My antenna motor never shuts off draining the battery. The shop cut the cable. Later, I buy another antenna and take apart my dash and inside passenger wheelwell to try to install it. Got the old one out but the new didn't work. Now I'm rolling with a tape deck and CD changer, but no radio. It's cool, but I mentioned it nevertheless just in case it helps. Primarily, me taking apart the dash.

3. Mid 2002, I sitting in the car @ the bank waiting on my now wife, and the car unexpectingly overheats. To the point that it shuts off. I had to wait almost an hour before it would start again. And then I could only drive it about 3 minutes before it would try to shut off again. Took it to a shop and they said nothings wrong. No problems since.

4. Late 2002, got another oil change. My dip stick has a brown milky substance on it.

5. Late 02, my heat only blows out through the main vents. Not the defrost or the feet, no matter where I put the selector.

6. 03, my twilight sensor starts acting funny. My lights are on in the day and sometimey at night. It's frightening driving at night when all of a sudden....BAM!! your lights go out.

7. My Trunk release button is sometimey. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

8. Here's the big one. I did an oil change myself. Wasn't the first time. The next day, I working around under the hood when I open the compartment that holds the air filter, it's covered with oil. Brand new, cover with oil. I change it out. Couple of days later I start the car the engine is shaking hard, sounding loud, kinda knockin. I press on the accelerator and it sounds like a jar of marbles. My low oil light is constantly on. Somebody said it sounds like a "head" or something. There's a significant loss in power. It drinks antifreeze and the overheating problem has returned. People are saying I need a new engine and to drive carefully until I get one. Somedays it's not as bad. Like somedays its louder than other days. Somedays you don't here it at all.

9. To top it off, I recently got into an accident which slightly dented the hood and took out the headlight on the passenger side. The insurance company deems it a total loss. And is offering $1200 for it if they take or $0 if I keep it. I'm not worried about the body. It has other minor dings and dents but nothin Maaco can't fix.

My wife thinks I should get rid it. I'm tellin her the problems are minor, but are they really? She, and everybody else, thinks I'm stupid. That I should take the money and run. I really want to keep this car. The interior is wonderful. The body has minor flaws. But the engine is really scaring me.

Any advice would be really helpful. If you need more info, please don't hesitate.

Thanx in advance.

dirt & water

muddywaters
11-30-2004, 05:12 AM
and remembered a little more.

My driver side seatbelt does work anymore. I have to push it in a special way to make it "click", which presents safety issues since sometimes it just comes loose.

My heater vents that only blow on the main vents and not on defrost and feet, now only blow regular on the driver side and very lightly on the passenger side no matter how high I put the blower on.

At stop lights, sometimes it kinda stutters like it's going to shut off. It even starts jerking a little bit.

I plan on another "do it myself" oil change as well as a "do it myself" radiator flush tomorrow. I also have an appointment set up next Wednesday with the Only Chevy dealer in this part of Germany to hook my car up to a computer, to see what they can tell me. It's only $30, so I said why not?

I'm ordering a headlight, headlight assembly, and front side marker light from EZ body parts tomorrow. It comes to $200 with shipping. Any body have any experience with them?

Look guys, with all the problems listed, you'd think it'd be a easy decision. But when I get it on the highway, it's like it runs perfectly. I want to prove the naysayers wrong and show them that my Classic is still THE car. My wife is disgusted. She's like "Take the money, I'll give you my DODGE NEON (of all cars!!) and I'll get a Kia Sorento. Don't say nothing to me when it dies on you on the highway!! Your Stubborn!"

So is it worth it? I think it is... but I need yall advice, diagnosis and possible solutions. Am I playing with fire?

dirt & water

PeteA216
11-30-2004, 09:36 PM
Wow...A dodge neon?! C'mon out of all cars. For your engine, it sounds like you've blown a head gasket. That’s why your oil is a milky brown: Radiator fluid (antifreeze) is leaking into parts of your engine that it shouldn't be. Before flushing your coolant system, be sure to find out what kinda of coolant your car has. As for the oil inside the air filter chamber, I have no idea what that’s from. Hopefully somebody else on this forum can help you with that. You should have also never have let then put 5W-30 in your car, because its a different weight oil (thickness) and can cause abnormal wear in your engine, and in some cases can cause it to overheat because of improper lubrication. And when your car overheated (which was probably caused by a faulty thermostat rather than the oil) that’s probably what caused your head gaskets to go... In a worst case scenario which is very possible in your case (now that I think of it, it probably is your problem) your heads are actually warped in which you can get the same symptoms. From the sounds of it you don’t know what a head is. A head is a cast iron or cast aluminum piece of metal that is bolted right over the combustion chambers on the block of the engine. They hold the valves, lifters, and spark plugs, and allow for fuel to pass into the combustion chambers from the intake manifold, and exhaust to pass out into the exhaust manifolds. They are essential to the engine, and are usually the first thing to go when an engine overheats. You probably need to buy new heads and gaskets. As for your antenna, if the new one you tried to install was brand new, then you have a completely different issue. GM power antenna's have a tendency not to last very long. Try to get a solid antenna that will fit. For your vents, you most likely have a vacuum leak somewhere. Your twilight sensor, and trunk release probably both have loose or corroded connection. Your twilight sensor could also need to be replaced, or it could even be the headlight relay. Play around with things even in your fuse box. Your seatbelt... Take out the entire setup, and try find anything wrong with it (loose pieces, broken metal/plastic, busted springs) If you do then go to a junk yard and get the piece you need, or if you have to get the whole unit.

From the sounds of it, the car is in great condition besides the engine and some electrical malfunctions. They are all repairable, but you must remember... Nothing lasts forever. Price it out, and see how much parts and (if your gonna hire someone) labor will cost. I really do hate to be saying this, but you might be better off taking the money, and NOT getting a neon, but another Caprice. They aren’t that incredibly expensive anymore. The only reason I'm saying this is because since its a little newer, there are more electronics built in, and are more challenging and costly to deal with when it comes to repairs, and as the car gets older, more and more things are going to fail. But I know how you'd feel, another Caprice wouldn't be the same. I'm trying to imagine coming to this decision with my Caprice, and It would be that hardest thing in the world for me to do with my car. I've put so much love and care into it, and really brought it back up to something of beauty. Its somewhat unique, and its mine... If I bought another one it would technically be mine, but it wouldn't feel that way. My car was nearly deserted before I owned it. It sat in a rough garage for 6 years straight, being used as a bookshelf. Now I've brought it back up to its prime, and am very particular about all details about it. Its always there for me, and even if it gave me trouble somewhere down the road, I'd still love it. It's almost like a best friend to me. So I can definitely understand why you would want to keep it. Here is my suggestion. Keep it. Take it off the road for a little while, and get a temporary car to drive. Then fix everything that needs to be fixed. That way you don’t have any interruptions like having to drive it to work or something. Give it a complete overhaul if you want. Once you get finished, and get it back on the road again, you'll be so grateful you did. Most people wouldn't waste their time, and just get rid of the car, but this car is special to you. I also recommend that you get a full blown eBay account started. You can sell thing to gain money that you would lose from not getting rid of your car, and you can get good parts for really cheap prices. (Now I'm sounding like an advertiser)

Oh, and for the future, while your driving, if you see any of the warning lights come on in your dash (low oil, high temperature) Turn off the car RIGHT AWAY, even if your on the express way. Just throw it in neutral, shut off the engine, turn on your emergency flashers, and find your way to the shoulder.

I’m gonna get a second opinion on all of your issues, and hopefully I can come up with more information. Good luck.

~A Fellow Caprice Fanatic
(Pete)

muddywaters
12-01-2004, 10:22 AM
Thanx for replying. Input is appreciated man. As for what you said:

Pete (P):For your engine, it sounds like you've blown a head gasket. That’s why your oil is a milky brown: Radiator fluid (antifreeze) is leaking into parts of your engine that it shouldn't be.
MuddyWaters (M): Yeah, somebody else said that might be the case. They also suggested it could be the "rings".

P:Before flushing your coolant system, be sure to find out what kinda of coolant your car has.
M: Do you mean as far as name brand or is there a certain "type" of coolant I should be using? When I flush it, I was going to refill it with the Pennzoil GM DEX-COOL Extended Life coolant. Guy said it's formulated for all GM models 96 on. I figure it would work in my 92.

P: As for the oil inside the air filter chamber, I have no idea what that’s from.
M: Somebody said it might be "blowback" from my high speed driving on the Autobahn. They said US cars, aren't built for constant excessive speeding and that many US cars have fallen by the waste side because of it. They said slowdown. Thing is, I have always driven "fasterest" and have never had that problem.

P: You should have also never have let then put 5W-30 in your car
M: I know man. Even with my older Classics I have always used 10W. What's weird is in the service manual, and even on the oil cap, it says use 5W so when they suggested it, I figured it would be cool.

P: when your car overheated (which was probably caused by a faulty thermostat
M: So you saying I might need to check and change it?

P: You probably need to buy new heads and gaskets.
M: Which would be most cost efficient to include labor; new heads and gaskets, or new engine? I was pricing engines a couple of months ago and they were about $1400 - $1600. Actually in Indy, they have this place call Auto Wise and they rebuilt your engine which I was also thinking about doing. My aunt, who loves working on cars and supports me in keeping the Classic, thinks I should just go to the junkyard and grab one cause it's the cheapest option, but also the riskiest.

P: As for your antenna, if the new one you tried to install was brand new, then you have a completely different issue. GM power antenna's have a tendency not to last very long. Try to get a solid antenna that will fit.
M: Yeah, I ordered it new from ebay. First of all, let me say getting to it was a pain in the butt (Haynes sucks!) and doing it myself was not idea. But all the shops I went to said they wouldn't do it cause it's too hard or charged me upwards $200. I only paid $50 for the antenna. Do you want me to spread my butt cheeks too so it'll be easier? When I FINALLY got to the antenna and disconnected it, the color of wires didn't match. There were only three wires so I spliced both sets and and connected them directly trying all 6 different combinations. None worked. Pissed, I just left it as is with no antenna and three spliced wires. Theres the hole where the antenna used to be but it doesn't bother me. That was 2 years ago. I still got the new antenna. What I was thinking about doing was connecting extra wired to the three spliced ones and running it to the back so I can have a remote antenna in the back with the motor in the trunk. That way when the antenna goes out again, it's easy to get to and change out. Plus instead of having come up at a 90 degree angle, I think of mounting it a 60 - 70 degree angle so it comes up slanted. It's not a Plasma TV in the trunk, but it's something a little different. But I'm givin away ideas, let me stop.

P: For your vents, you most likely have a vacuum leak somewhere
M: How do I check that?

P: Your twilight sensor could also need to be replaced, or it could even be the headlight relay.
M: Where is the Twilight sensor and the Headlight relay located at anyway? Once again, Haynes sucks because Twilight sensor isn't even in the book.

P: Your seatbelt...
M: Yeah, probably the junkyard thing. The release button won't click. I think the spring is busted.

P: Nothing lasts forever
M: This is EXACTLY what my wife said...but negatively

P: another Caprice wouldn't be the same
M: I agree with this and everything you said afterwards and I'm glad that understand how I feel. It's NOT that same.

P: Take it off the road for a little while, and get a temporary car to drive
M: somebody else suggested this and it's a good idea

Thanx for the suggestions. I feel better.

burnM
12-01-2004, 09:29 PM
I'd have to agree with Pete on just about everything that he said regarding your gaskets being an issue, but I wouldn't be too quick about putting in that Dexcool antifreeze. It has a tendancy to gum up the heater core in these cars. If the car came with green, stick with green. If you are going to go through the time and expense of fixing everything, do yourself a favour and get a new thermostat while you're at it. It's a few bucks more for cheap insurance. I don't know about needing new heads though, they may just be warped. Getting them shaved may save you a few bucks.

I think after doing the head work, a lot of your drivability issues will go away.
:2cents:

PeteA216
12-01-2004, 09:52 PM
Yeah, I forgot about getting the heads machined, that would be the cheaper way to go... about your rings (the spring steel rings around each piston in the combustion chamber to keep a nice tight seal for compression), they might have gotten damaged from overheating, but I would wait and see what repairing the heads will do for you. I also got a little worried about that Dexcool antifreeze. As burnM said it can gum up you coolant system causing a backup, which wont allow the engine to cool, and overheating all over again. To check for a vacuum leak, find the vacuum hoses that lead to the vent controls (inside your dash, and the back area of your engine compartment) and look for cracked hoses, loose hoses, and even disconnected hoses. The twilight sensor, very sorry, but I can't really tell you where abouts it is, nor the headlight relay. I'm used to straight wiring in older cars. All I can really help you on is finding out possible things wrong. Oh, and with the angle on your antenna, I was thinking the same thing when I suggested a solid one. It'd be pretty cool.

One of buddies, who works as a machanic at Doan, says that the "marbles in the jar" sound might be because you spun a bearing (one of the bearing on the crank shaft came loose). I'm not to sure about that one, but I'm not exactly a trained professional like he is.

beat88ls
12-02-2004, 01:35 AM
i had a 86 silverado with the 4.3L V6 and i had the same problem with "blow-by" where i would find alarming amounts of oil in the air cleaner, it got to the point where it could go through 3 Quarts of oil in less than one mile of driving. my mechanic told me that it was caused by worn rings.

[the "marbles in the jar" sound might be because you spun a bearing]

a friend of mine had a 96 astro with a 4.3L and he lost a head gasket on the highway. he drove it to the next exit to a service station (it was only 2 miles away from his house) they told him that coolant got into the oil pan and came in contact with the main bearings, and it caused the same marbles in a jar sound, sadly he had to replace the engine.

sorry to hear about your troubles

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