Gts-r

I think its mainly for toe-in. When the rotors warp, they quickly destroy the alignment, and the car will wander.

Speaking of inequalities, I live in the U.S. and it makes me sick to see GM marketing rear-wheel drive V8-powered muscle sedans in the Middle East and Australia after having discontinued them here. I was a big fan of the last generation Caprice 9C1 and Impala SS.

I heard that the Holden GTS-R was selling down under for about $85000 AUD fully equipped, which at the current exchange rate comes to about $44,000 USD (a great deal considering the cars they sell here for that price don't even come close to touching the GTS in terms of performance).

I read that the HSV GTS-R was recently brought to the United Kingdom at an MSRP of $50000 GBP - that's about $75000 dollars!?! The question I wanted to ask is, where does this extra $30000 USD come from as the car goes from Australia to England???

There are companies in California that import Nissan Skylines from Japan. After modifying the car to pass EPA standards (several thousand dollars), converting to right-hand drive (several thousand more) and paying for the shipping costs (yet another several thousand), gas-guzzler and luxury taxes and import tariffs (cars are dutiable at 2.5% of worth, PLUS 4% for every thousand dollars over $400; trucks are assessed a duty of 25%!!), you end up paying about $90000 USD for a car that costs the equivalent of $40,000 USD overseas. But that's because these companies have to use independent commercial importers, which tack on their own egregious service charges. Remember, this is for a car that is imported, not an import car that is registered for sale.

I am also looking to import (of my accord) a Caprice SS or Lumina SS from Saudi Arabia, to the US. If anyone knows specifically how much this would cost, plesae let me know. Obviously I would not be worried about emissions or drive conversion, only the taxes involved. I am trying to get more information from the customs and treasury department in the meantime. Thanks.

I am in Australia at the moment guys, and had a look round the HSV dealers a few days ago!
I can see why we don't get it, but I fail to see why the US doesn't get the GTS and other Super Saloons!

I see they have brought out a new version, which now gets 19" wheels, as well as trim changes!!!

Here are some pics of the new Monaro if they will leech...
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/coupe/gts/alt/hero.jpg
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/coupe/gts/alt/wheel.jpg

And the Clubsport Commodore...
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/cs/alt/saffron1.jpg
http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vx2/cs/alt/saffron3.jpg

You don't get OUR:silly2: Holdens because the fuel tanks is placed behind the axle and a few other things.

But it doesn't go for the ute as it placed in front of the rear axle and might end up in America by the end of the year:smoker2:

i think i've already posted my response to this, but i'm not sure, so i'll go again...

HSV anyday, its just a better all-round car

In Britain, cars are crazy-expensive. If you own a car, you are lucky. Plus, the Value Added Tax is 18% on any new car. Ouch:eek:

It's GTS. There's no 'R'.

You'll be getting the Monaro as a Pontiac GTO in 2004. Not the HSV model though.

The GTS-R does exist, in the UK where they are imported.
AUS- UK
-----------------------
GTS- GTS-R
Clubsport R8- GTS

Originally posted by farking_funny


You'll be getting the Monaro as a Pontiac GTO in 2004. Not the HSV model though.


Thats right, one of the reasons the Monaro was delayed a little was they had to relocate the gas tank in frount of the axle. Something they would only goto the trouble of doing if they planned to sell the car in the US.

Originally posted by Moppie



Thats right, one of the reasons the Monaro was delayed a little was they had to relocate the gas tank in frount of the axle. Something they would only goto the trouble of doing if they planned to sell the car in the US.

Anyone know if they are making a similar improvement in the VY Commodore???? :confused:


Thunda- The UK-spec GTS-R is different from the Aussie GTS isn't it????? I'm talking about the Supercharger that exists in one of the UK models, which I am sure is the GTS-R......


Why the hell can't we have some of them, it's not fair......:mad: :mad:

It makes all other HSV's suck :( :(

The supercharger is an option on the UK GTS-R

Originally posted by Downunder
The supercharger is an option on the UK GTS-R

OK cheers :)

How is moving the fuel tank in front of the rear axle an improvement? It's just one of silly American design rules. Same with 17' wheels. I can't see why they have a problem with those.

I know the fuel tank is to be moved in case of rear impact, but I've never seen a car blow up from being hit in the rear. If it isn't broken, why fix it?

The U.S is definately getting it. It's already been anounced. Along with the ute to be sold as a Chevy Al Camino.

Originally posted by farking_funny
How is moving the fuel tank in front of the rear axle an improvement? It's just one of silly American design rules. Same with 17' wheels. I can't see why they have a problem with those.

I know the fuel tank is to be moved in case of rear impact, but I've never seen a car blow up from being hit in the rear. If it isn't broken, why fix it?

The U.S is definately getting it. It's already been anounced. Along with the ute to be sold as a Chevy Al Camino.

Getting which??? The Monaro or Commodore????

But there has been tons of cars blow up in the States, cause engineers put the fuel tanks in stupid places :rolleyes:

Definately getting the Monaro. Not sure about the Commodore. If they don't blow up here, why would they do it in the states?

Definately getting the Monaro. Not sure about the Commodore. If they don't blow up here, why would they do it in the states?

But the U.S will be getting this one. Slightly redesigned though.

About the gas tank, it isn't safe to have it behind the axle. And GM has painful memories, as a family in a 1970's Malibu was rear-ended, the tank ruptured, and burned them. They were able to get ahold of an internal document outlining the danger, but recommending that the gas tank not be changed to save on costs. GM was ordered to pay $4.9 billion (yes, with a B) to the 6 victims.

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi

Thunda- The UK-spec GTS-R is different from the Aussie GTS isn't it????? I'm talking about the Supercharger that exists in one of the UK models, which I am sure is the GTS-R......


Apologies for the belated response. The UK GTS-R was identical to our GTS, save for a vented intake airbox which explains the additional 8hp and the '410bhp' decal on the back. I'm told the UK drive-by noise regs are easier than here. Apart from the lairy GTS-R stickers emblazoned everwhere and the lurid interior decor treatment on the example I saw I think that's the extent of it.

All I heard at the time of the 530bhp supercharged units was they were apparently a batch of 10 only, done by an aftermarket tuner .. not TWR (Tom Walkinshaw Racing). BTW anyone else remember what happened to that fop T. Walkinshaw last time he raced at Bathurst - I thought that was hilarious!

As to the petrol tank placement of Commodores, this is a hot topic in the US at the moment, very explosive & a burning issue indeed. The latest terror over there is stationary US Ford Crown Victoria police cars which have the temerity to catch fire when rear-ended at 70mph by a semi, or something like that. The Nerve! Perhaps these were designed by that same company (Morton Thyocol) of the Challenger Space Shuttle fame? It's now replaced the Ford Explorer tyre debacle as the new 'flavour of the month' conspiracy psychodrama in the US, and is yet another absolute tort law feast (remember the McDonalds coffee cup precedent?) for that otherwise starving and deprived underclass, the US lawyers (bless 'em)

I wonder how they'd cope with the SL/R 5000 drop-tank craze/fad of a few years ago?

That tire crap is crap. Drive along any interstate, and you will see countless tire bits, sometimes the whole tread, or worse. This firestone issue is crap, and the explorer may even be ok. ITs that most modern drivers suck ass. They only care about themselves, and the person on the other end of the cellphone. If they were actually driving (especially if they were driving a car), there would be no accident.

One thing's for sure - I wouldn't even attempt to drive an often overladen top-heavy two-ton+ SFV (sport futility vehicle) at 80mph on tyre pressures of 22psi!

When was the last time you saw one of those immaculately dressed folk driving their SUVs at a servo checking their tire pressures?

About as often as they get under the hood to check the oil... ie zip...

And they wonder why their tire pressures are low (the only time they get checked is if the apprentice remembers at service).

Wonder if they ever pump their tires back up after going thru sand... hang on what was I thinking... you can't possibly use an SUV for off-road it might get dirty...

Could be wrong info, but apparently the Explorer's owners manual actually recommended 22psi (minimum) so that's what these idiots selected to drive 'em at!

Even fully loaded and for extended highway speeds - no wonder they delaminated

I suppose they'd have a nice plush ride over the catseyes as the SFV swerves off the road...

Originally posted by replicant_008
I suppose they'd have a nice plush ride over the catseyes as the SFV swerves off the road...

:) :p :D :eek:

Too late to select Insta-Trac 4WD (via that convenient dash mounted button) when your 22psi Firestones are pointing skywards

Well at least it would save on tire wear...

.

That's not the GTS-R that this thread is referring to. HSV's GTS is known as the GTS-R in the UK.

The yellow gts-r in the pic above is an older model VR it uses a stroked version of the 5.0 litre Aussie motor
The American market will get the Monaro rebadged as the GTO pontiac
we had a left hand drive monaro at work doing transmission testing this week

You Americans can have all the HSV's you want. people think they're the be all and end all of vehicles. But I hate them. Sure they go hard, but uh, why cant the brand new ones even make near 100hp per litre yet? And why does my mates 2 litre kick the shit out of them for 1/2 the price and twice the age? And why cant they turn corners? Sorry, my rants over, Motor Eyes will kill me now. ;)

i hate them to!!!
they look gay!!!
people its just a comanhore with a different front end. if you want real power then start with real power...not the 300kW (240kW at the rear wheels) slug that cant even beat the new GT Falcon with a 5.4 litre donk... for f^ucks sake...290kW out of a 5.4 and 300kW out of a 5.7 and the 5.4 kicks the shite out of it in every class!!!!!
you want a HSV then y dont u just buy a povity pack comanhore change the front spoiler and wack a super on it!!!
or buy a XR6 turbo for $44,640AUS and kick the shite out of any stock comanhore in australia!!!

i hate them to!!!
they look gay!!!
people its just a comanhore with a different front end. if you want real power then start with real power...not the 300kW (240kW at the rear wheels) slug that cant even beat the new GT Falcon with a 5.4 litre donk... for f^ucks sake...290kW out of a 5.4 and 300kW out of a 5.7 and the 5.4 kicks the shite out of it in every class!!!!!
you want a HSV then y dont u just buy a povity pack comanhore change the front spoiler and wack a super on it!!!
or buy a XR6 turbo for $44,640AUS and kick the shite out of any stock comanhore in australia!!!

Well to be honest, it's not that clear cut.

The 5.4 litre GT and GT-P engine is essentially based on a Lincoln Navigator iron block with some twin-cam heads. This introduces some compromises - the twin-cam heads only come into their own in the mid to high rev range but get strangled by the limitations of the big end which is essentially a cast iron truck block. And the clearance in the engine bay is non-existent. The extra weight over the front axle dulls the handling compared to the Barra Engined XR6T too. And I don't think much of the SOHC V8 option compared to the standard Barra and the hair-drier Barra.

On the other hand, the LS1/GenIII even with the Callaway heads is based on a alloy block and pushrod heads. It's a lot lighter than the Ford engine and the engine characteristics make it relatively cheap, has good low-down torque and seems less like likely to want to spin something off compared to the 5.4 as you hit the revlimiter (which even for a pushrod is still higher than the 5.4 with the DOHC heads courtesy of that truck block). On the other hand, the 300kW engines have some reliability problems as do a handful of the LS1s - particularly pistons and oil use.

The High Feature V6 from GM is badly needed for the next Commode upgrade as the existing Buick V6 has passed its use-by date.

On real roads (ie ones with corners not to mention speed cameras and police pursuit patrols), there isn't a helluva lot of difference between the XR6T, the GT/GTP, SS, R8 Clubsports, GTO or the XR8 - they are all at the pointy end of the performance envelope and it comes down to preference and handling setup. I don't like the commode's semi-trailing arm rear end - the control blade is much better and the XR6T has the better front end but the Ford V8's are blunted by the extra weight over the front end... And the starter button of the GT's is a pain in the ass.

then how do u feel that the the XR8 with its 260kW beats the hell outa every holden made this year??
and the XR6 turbo also beating everything??
and the GT beating everything??

Well it shits me but then considering Holden has slaughtered Ford for so long it's about time they lost a bit of shine.

If anything it keeps Holden honest and with any hope the VZ and subsequent VE models will be absolute crackers.

I for one am seriously considering the prospect of getting an SS GenIV with DoD when it arrives

slaughtered ford???
holden hasnt yet made a car to beat one of the many fords in 1960's..
The Phase 3 still beats all productions holdens in a straight line and kicks many round the track..
holden still hasnt found a legal engine to stand a chance against the carby fed 351 Cleveland!!!
ill eat my whole car when holden brings out a production car that beats all production fords!!!
402hp thats funny the 72 falcons had 400hp at the wheels!!!

Well in the last 5 or 6 years they couldn't produce, in the same period, a car to beat HSV or Holdens Gen III SS Commodore

Also Magazine tests of it's era show the Phase 3 could only manage an official 0-100 time of around 6.5 seconds and a 14.7 second quarter mile. Stock SS Commodores have posted better figures than that ever since VT Series II.

Also stock A9X Toranas would cane a GTHO around a racetrack and even one such as Bathurst with it's long straights. Not to mention the latest SS Commodores or HSV's.

Not sure what you mean by legal engine though? The 351 Cleveland was American just like the Gen III. Also the Gen III is streets ahead of the Cleveland in economy, power, refinement etc...

Oh yeah and the Phase IV doesn't count as it was never "officially" sold so you might want to start munching as even the FPV GT can't beat a Clubsport in a straight line.

Ford fans of Australia, let it go. The Phase III was the best in it's day, 30 years ago, not any more.

14.4 second quarter mile actully making it the 5th fastest accelerating australian production car in aus and thats with 32 year old rubber
4th being the XR8 3rd being the E49 Charger 2nd being the XR6 turbo and 1st being the new GT...
i ment legal engine because of the 7 litre monaro
they were gunna release it but it was discontinued...didnt u hear about that???
There hasnt been a A9X torana in history thats beaten the Phase 3...yes the phase 4 wasnt released but it kicked the shite outa all the commodores just like the XA GT351 its little brother...
its funny isnt it the RS500 won baturst with its tiny 2 litre turbo'd engine....there is still no holden that can beat the RS200 and its a 1.8 litre turbo that weighs 1145kg...supercharged 3.8 commodore dosnt even run 0-100km/h in twice the time it does.
351 cleveland is the fastest small block in the world
runs 7.652 second quarter naturally aspirated...
the LS1 has nothing!!!

Uh dude, from the photos it looks like a normal HSV GTS. A friend of mine has one in black only its got the full options with leather seats not those crappy looking fabric seats. Comes with 300kw's stock standard. I think he's had some minor work done to the engine and he's running in the 12's, but not sure as to the exact time. AS far as i know all he's added is an exhaust and chip to get these times. By the way, where did you get the $30,000 price tag???? An HSV GTS usually costs around $100,000 australian dollars which i think is closer to $50-70,000 U.S. dollars, not really sure after the conversion but i think its somewhere along those figures.

umm.. to holden h8r the december issue of motor mag recently tested the commodore ss II and xr8. the ss ran a time of 13.94 to the xr8 14.37 and in motors own words "not only is the ss half a second quicker than the xr8, bit it outpaces the 290kw fpv gt as well" well thats got ur theary of the gt being the quickest australian production car. and in the november issue they tested the hsv clubbie II up with the fpv gt and the times were clubbie 13.56 and gt 14.22 wats this holden kicks the shit out of fordow and the xr6 runs 14.14 and the gts runs bout a 13.20, 13.30 stock

There hasnt been a A9X torana in history thats beaten the Phase 3...yes the phase 4 wasnt released but it kicked the shite outa all the commodores just like the XA GT351 its little brother...
its funny isnt it the RS500 won baturst with its tiny 2 litre turbo'd engine....there is still no holden that can beat the RS200 and its a 1.8 litre turbo that weighs 1145kg...supercharged 3.8 commodore dosnt even run 0-100km/h in twice the time it does.
351 cleveland is the fastest small block in the world
runs 7.652 second quarter naturally aspirated...
the LS1 has nothing!!!

:screwy: you really have no idea. Check out the Baturst times here:

http://www.v8supercar.com.au/resource/bathurst/grids.htm

Oh yeah and Sierra's don't count either, Ford never sold them in Australia and the ones that raced were modified for the Group A rules at the time. I wonder if you even know where they were made.....

Yep the HRT 427 wasn't released, just like the Phase IV huh?

The Gen IV will displace 6 litres when it arrives, but don't worry, maybe Ford will continue to develop it's "Romeo" 5.4 V8 so you can sort of be able to catch up!

This is getting ridiculous. It's true that the RS500 Cosworth Sierras were Group A Racecars but so were all the other cars in the field and ultimately the quickest Group A car to compete in Australia was the Nissan GTR.

The Nissan GTR is still available in Japan and was available for sale in Australia. However, in NZ both the Sierra (incl the RS500) and the GTR were available for sale... in fact if you have the cash, Nissan NZ will still bring in the current GTR for you to special order.

But that's about as relevant to the road car situation as the current V8SuperCar standings are to driving around in a current Falcodore... The engines in the Supercars are both ironblock 5 litre pushrods, both run wishbone front ends and live axle rears and use the same combination of a Hollinger gearbox to the same Ford diff. If you've ever worked in the pit lane during a meeting it's pretty plain to see when the front splitters are off, the bonnets are up and the wheels are off that the similarity between either racecar and its road car equivalent is purely superficial.

As for the fastest car... it depends on the driver, the conditions and the roads being used if you want a real world comparison. 0-100 and quarter mile times are fine for the traffic light drags but to be honest the combination of roadholding, handling (note they are two quite distinct things), braking performance, rolling acceleration (particularly 80-120 km/h).

The Phase III may have the better 0-100 time than an XR6 Turbo but drive back to back on twisty country road and the newer car won't break a sweat running away in corner speed.

the polls titled which would you rather have, so you guys are all saying youll choose a less luxurious, less high-performing car over a car twice as expensive in a poll where $ is no option?

o yeah and look at that BEASTLY interior!! not even any leather!! the seats'll smell like sweat after half a year, and they'll feel rely hard to sit on. and the design of the seat is pretty ugly too

who told you the Phase IV didnt get released?
they didnt enter it into bathurst but they released it buddy.....do ya home work

id much rather a M5 than a HSV..... Although there both designed in germany the BMW has about 500 times betta steel in its make.....BMW is known for there quality.....the BMW will still be looking brand new when the HSV is getting a respray......we all know about Holdens Paint.....not even Toyota thought it was decent.....remember the VN-VR (Lexens) thats right the Lexen was actully a all around betta car than the Commodore.....betta paint....betta computer.....and alot of other little things....YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.... everyone knows that...but hey thats just my opinion...

chevy won't bring that car to the US because they won't build anything better or faster or that even comes close to competing with the Corvette, which i think is totally fucking stupid and gay.. Chevy is chevy, each branch of GM should have a fast car just like the old days... Anyone remember the good old muscle car days? chevelle, nova, impala, GTO, corvette, 442 and all thge others i'm too young to know about lol come on GM you have us by the balls here with only two fast cars and one of them is watered down! They think they can fool us by supercharging the FWD cars like the impala and monte carlo.. screw that high 14 second low 15 second fwd cars suck!

thow a dog a bone nigga, shit!

they wont take one of those peices of shit ova to the US.....does anyone know the quality of which these cars are made.....its a shame to the word car!

what the holdens?

Chevy is bottom of the barrol in car quality in some of their cars.. and even in the higher end Vett you see shitty inerior and designing..

yeah the holdens....
For example 2002 VX HSV...SS...calais....every 1/50
of the LS1's put into the things chewed oil.....i had a mate jase who had one (SS) and his did it...so he flogged the shit outa it and then took it in and told them....because it happens so often they dont even check it out...they said to leave it there and come get it tomoz with a brand new engine....and its "HOLDEN" there not just gunna throw out the engine are they...there gunna do wateva it was that was wrong and put it back into another car arnt they....FLOGGED....there isnt anyone i know that knows anything about cars and likes holdens....if you know what your talking about you go for FORD or sumthing else with some style and quality...When the VX commodore came out here they gave a Ford And A Holden to Autotec Magazine....autotec checked out the cars and the holden had a factory worked engine and holdens special Ballistic Style Steering...and claimed it to be stock...but wat was funny was the ford still beat it round every corner...goes to show the low quality of the car and the people that make them....lying to the people to sell more cars....