Clutch engage point..

What changes the engage point on the clutch pedal? My friend has a modded out GS with all kinds of things in it, one thing I noticed is he barely has to push in the clutch to shift.. is there a mod that moves it up/down?

I also noticed it in F&F, as much as people don't like that movie and it's filled with inaccuracies.. I just didn't know if that was one of them. Sorry if my question seems stupid to everyone.

master cylinder clutch adjustment rod

i dont understand what you are saying about F&F. the clutch pedal in the movie is hardly something to worry about.

I was just noting, in the beginning of the movie, when he's testing the eclipse.. in the movie he barely has to press on the clutch.. I didn't know if it was a movie mistake or whether it was actually possible for faster shifting.

i have to push my clutch pedal all the way down to the floor to shift....

When racing, you obviously only want to put the clutch pedal in enough to disengage the clutch. Any distance past this point is unnecessary time lost.

For instance, if you only have to put the pedal 1/2 way down to disengage the clutch, that's where you should shift. That way, when you're ready to get back on the throttle, you only have to raise the pedal 1/2 way.

If you decide to push it all the way down, it takes twice as long to engage and disengage the clutch, which means you lose valuable power and time.

i dont decide to push it all the way down... i have too, it disengages when the pedal is aobut an inch from the floor....

The pedal is adjustable, get under there and look. All you should need is a wrench to change the freeplay, the less freeplay there is the less you have to push it down. If I remember right you're supposed to adjust it after a certain number of miles, b/c you're not supposed to have to push it all the way to the floor before it disengages.

i dont decide to push it all the way down... i have too, it disengages when the pedal is aobut an inch from the floor....

Yeah, I know--I wasn't trying to blame you ;)

Just, in general, the less you have to push in the clutch pedal, the quicker you can shift if racing. So a higher engage/disengage point means less pedal travel, and time pushing it :).

I know you only have to push it to the engage point to shift. But it looked like it was a lot less pedal pushing than stock. I was just wondering how you changed it.. because I love shifting as fast as possible.

The rod at the pedal is NOT for adjsuting the engagement height. But I'll admit I sometimes use it for that when i shouldnt. ;) That rod is to set how far back the rod in the master comes. Thread it out to far and you block the return port and the pedal will "pump up" as you drive. You can thread it in fiurther (to move pedal lower) but you are not going to improve clutch feel and you will be covering up what is really wrong.

If the pedal is too high and there is some freeplay, the clutch is probably worn, or the step height is incorrect. If there is zero freeplay, the rod may be too far out and the master is pumped up.

I like my pedal to be about 2" off the floor. If its too high it can slip under high power, and if its too low you can miss shifts and wear out synchros.

Shifting as fast as you can breaks your synchros...that's why you're supposed to double-clutch.

Shifting as fast as you can breaks your synchros...that's why you're supposed to double-clutch.

But after all, isn't racing all about breaking parts anyway? :p

Shifting as fast as you can breaks your synchros...that's why you're supposed to double-clutch.
wait i thought double clutching was down shifting? guess i gotta read the FAQ agian...

true double clutching is putting the clutch in, putting it in neutral, letting the clutch out, pushing the clutch in, putting the engine at appropriate rpm, and then putting it in gear and letting the clutch out again. i love double clutching :) it feels good

Shifting as fast as you can breaks your synchros...that's why you're supposed to double-clutch.


Please don't polute this forums with this bullshit. We finally got past the F&F stage in recent months. ;) Double clutching is for non-synchromesh transmissions, on the downshift. Thanks again.

omfg, dude here i'll explain it to you from my professional training instead of your random hearsay. The reason you double clutch is to allow the synchro to catch up to the speed of the input shaft so that it can mesh to the gear with no resistance. Please explain to me how that is bullshit, and take heed to your own sig. And after you give me ur wrong answer for that, tell me how a synchro goes bad then. Because if it's not caused by quick shifting then what is it caused by? :) Cuz in your statement, a synchromesh trans's syncho can't go bad. Thanks again.

Stop being an ignorant cocksucker for one moment and listen up. I don't post random heresay. I post from personal experience. I was working on these cars when you were still shiting in your pants. I'm out in the garage working on the car, and out at the track racing, while you're out swallowing the pork sword. I was in the 11s before you got your "technical training" (not sure if taking one in the balloon knot while watching fast and furious counts as technical training though). Don't talk to me about worn synchros when I'm snapping input shafts and blowing center diffs out the side of the case.

I know what double clutching is and when it is used, so save your fancy description for your "technically trained" highskool boyfriends, faggot. You do not double clutch on the upshift. Are you telling me that every person on this planet shifts too fast? Because all trannies will wear out the synchros eventually. Normal wear and tear. I shift faster than you take omlets on the chin and my synchros last just fine, thanks.


Like I said. Double clutching is only necessary when downshifting a non-syncromesh transmision to match the intermediate shaft speed to the input shaft speed, while rev matching so as not to upset the cars balance going into the turn.

Have fun double clutching your way into the 15s cocksucker. Good luck with your "training."

I was working on these cars when you were still shiting in your pants. I'm out in the garage working on the car, and out at the track racing, while you're out swallowing the pork sword. I was in the 11s before you got your "technical training" (not sure if taking one in the balloon knot while watching fast and furious counts as technical training though). Don't talk to me about worn synchros when I'm snapping input shafts and blowing center diffs out the side of the case.


LMFAO, oh wow :lol2:. It definitely paid off to check back up on this thread :iceslolan:

Hook ,line ,sinker ,GUTTED!!

that was some hardcore shit Kevin!!!!!

and nice comment on the F&TF leaving the forum...

and my clutch is all over the place. under load it is down low, but easy driving it is a bit higher...

i was thinking it was because if the sprung disc?

kevin, you are my god. that was awesome.

I was working on these cars when you were still shiting in your pants.

I was in the 11s before you got your "technical training".

Don't talk to me about worn synchros when I'm snapping input shafts and blowing center diffs out the side of the case.

I know what double clutching is and when it is used, so save your fancy description for your "technically trained" highskool boyfriends, faggot. You do not double clutch on the upshift. Are you telling me that every person on this planet shifts too fast? Because all trannies will wear out the synchros eventually. Normal wear and tear. I shift faster than you take omlets on the chin and my synchros last just fine, thanks.

Like I said. Double clutching is only necessary when downshifting a non-syncromesh transmision to match the intermediate shaft speed to the input shaft speed, while rev matching so as not to upset the cars balance going into the turn.

Have fun double clutching your way into the 15s cocksucker. Good luck with your "training."


Wow sorry to hurt your feelings man, obviously you're mad that I could afford college for what I wanted to do, and I understand. But what's all this homoerotic namecalling? What are you hinting at? I get it, people make fun of you for being homosexual, well I won't, i'm not that mean. But you should know that i'm not that way, i'm not used to having highschool* boyfriends, or "omlets on the chin". I wouldn't know anything about that, obviously you're an expert on it, but I don't want to learn about it, this is a car forum. So you think i'm what 13-14 years old? Well you're far off, but I can tell by your demeanor (attitude) that you can't be much older than that (at least mentally). Now why would you be blowing center differentials and input shafts, maybe you don't know what you're doing. I think you should study some books, they do tell you why things happen the way they do. None of this is necessary, I never said it was mandatory (necessary) to double-clutch, obviously that is the reason for the synchromesh transmission invention, but how could there be wear on the synchronizers if you did double-clutch everytime? Well there wouldn't be any, and they wouldn't ever go bad. So as a protective measure it's a good idea to double-clutch, that's all i'm saying. Sorry if you disagree, but there's far more knowledge backing me up, than your own miniscule and insignificant experiences. Unbelievable the way people act on these forums sometimes to try to look cool, and for what? Write down "you're the coolest" on a piece of paper, that should give you the same satisfaction as reading it on the screen you're looking at right now. Just trying to help you out, no reason to get upset.

shut the hell up, kevin contributes more to this forum and in my opinion knows more about dsms than anybody ive seen, and last time i checked this was the dsm forum.... and i could be wrong but i'm pretty sure everybody else respects him for his knowledge here too. id just be careful is all.

we all get your point double clutching is better for the trans. is it better for your time slips? NO! and very few of us are more concerned with reliabilty then with speed so shut the fuck up.

btw when you have a car that runs 11 you can come tell us about how nothing ever breaks on it because you doubleclutch every shift lmfao

Wow do you all just make assumptions? I made my point and you got it, where is all this other stuff coming from? I don't double-clutch every shift, that defeats the reason for the invention of the synchromesh transmission, and I was specifically talking about wear and how to prevent it. Racing is another story, when you want to race to upgrade your transmission components to handle it. An 11 second 10 year old car is nothing to be proud of. I've been in the 10's with a 14 year old 350 Firebird, big deal, not hard. Not to mention 11's with a 15 year old twin-turbo Supra (conversion), also not hard. You're thinking small time, i'm not. It's kind of hard to take someone seriously who just said that some random guy on the internet is their god. I'm sorry. And i'd respect anyone who can respect others opinions. But I guess not everyone is mature here and follows the rules. I can see everyone has their little groups like in high school, and just want some excitement in their life so they pick fights on the internet. Not something I want to be a part of, I expected a car forum free from immature teenagers and people that act like them. Guess there's only a few sections on here that are like that, have fun kids I won't be back.

yay we chased away a moron without having a dozen stupid threads before he finally got banned. lol why did you assume that we gave a shit about reliability? btw 11's are more impressive coming from a 4 cylinder then they are coming from a old v8 with no emmisions or computerized crap. and his 11's are without nos with nos dsm 4 cyl have run mid 7's

Well I would assume we're talking reliability here since there is a seperate forum for the racing problems. Just going by the setup of the site. And to make the point about the car's, none of them are "impressive". But you talk as though you had something as good or better. And you have a car I could buy for less than a grand. Thanks again.

I see how it goes here: Every car section is it's own group, and if someone from "another section" comes in and has a disagreement (or misunderstanding in this case), everyone in the section can break all the rules without getting in trouble, and whoever the "outsider" is gets disrespected. Funny but the site rules, that selectively get enforced apparently, seem to go against that sort of thing.

ha ha thats nice insult my car just because when i have it running like new for less then 2000 (total cost counting the car) it will kick your cars ass. 1g awd turbos are very capable cars so dont even go there.

each forum has a slightly different focus eclipse/talon/laser forum is more interested in going fast. if you read the whole thread you would see thats he was asking about "shifting FASTER" not "shifting BETTER FOR MY TRANS" if you arent going to read the whole thread or at least the original question dont post.

btw what happened to "have fun kids I won't be back" we were all looking forward to it and you dissapointed us.

ehhhh. Technical_Automan, personally, I dont care how much money you make, what kind of cars you drive, or if you've made it into the 4's. Although I DO respect your "technical training" and the fact that you know more about cars that i will probably ever know, it doesnt really seem like you want to be respected. Although Kevin DID pwn you on his last post :biggrin: , I dont think he should have made assumptions that you know nothing about cars. I dont know much about getting into the 10's, but I DO know that people that are modest are better respected by all, and along with all the knowledge of cars you have, you should at least know that. Looks like either you misunderstood Kevin for a noob, or you were just bein an asshat.

I see how it goes here: Every car section is it's own group, and if someone from "another section" comes in and has a disagreement (or misunderstanding in this case), everyone in the section can break all the rules without getting in trouble, and whoever the "outsider" is gets disrespected. Funny but the site rules, that selectively get enforced apparently, seem to go against that sort of thing.

You are talking shit to a guy who has one of the top 100 fastest awd DSMs on the planet, and probably one of the top 30-40 fastest 2g AWDs. Without nitrous. And you question his experience. Knowing these facts, and what Kevin has contributed to this forum is why we stand up for someone who has generously contributed so much time to help others just beginning in the sport.

You are way out of your league, bud. Sure, you can drive the car like a pussy. Buy a fucking Geo if you want to double-clutch all day. If you double clutched all the time...what would the point of having synchros be, smart guy? Whatever college you go/went to, they must not be accredited :loser:

Do you know anything about racing? They don't make parts that let you run sub-1.5 second 60' times without breaking after a few runs. Enjoy your life of car maintenance on mini-vans and station wagons. It sounds like you'll really be able to help soccer moms avoid wear and tear on their cars :lol:

P.S. Thanks for defining "demeanor" for us in you earlier post. With a genius level vocabularly like that, it's hard to understand what you're saying :rolleyes: Actually, I don't really understand "attitude" either, so maybe you could define that as well, Webster. :eek:

Oh yea, almost forgot....

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu1.jpg

This is the probably the first time I went off the deep end on this forum. But before you come out with the Doctor Phil bullshit, lets take a look at what really happened.

This was a thread about clutch engagement points. You claimed that the adjustment rod is used to adjust the engagement point after so many miles. False.

I replied with a civil and respectful post correcting the misinformation you are spreading, even admiting that I use it for that once in a while with a smiley face. Then you reply saying that you are "supposed to double clutch." Again, completely false. We've been fighting that myth since F&F came out, WTF.

Then I replied, still within reason. Your next response however was very defensive and attacking my knowledge of these cars. Not the brightest thing you've done since you joined this fine forum. I didn't go to college to learn about cars, I can do that on my own. I work on multimillion dollar machinery in the semiconductor industry for a living, not minivans. Working on cars is just a hobby for me. ;) If you ran 10s or 11s in a car with 3 times the displacement, congratulations. What is your point? I still know more about DSMs than you do obviously, and this IS a DSM forum.

If you meant to say "double clutching may extend synchro life by some amount, but I have not personally tested it and have no hard data that proves the theory," just say it. I think it is your piss poor communication skills that got you into this mess, in adition to posting misinformation and riding my ballbag.

I will not tolerate spreading misinformation. If I have to call a couple FNGs faggots, ball bag swingers, cocksuckers, and pillow biters, I will. ;) DO NOT POST UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Thanks.

And don't waste my times with PMs like this:

lol funny thing is ur probably an ugly scrawny pos hick and you're talking shit to me, trying to be cool on a forum...you don't know shit about me and you never will..so keep trying to be cool in front of your "highskool forum friends" it won't bug me at all lol...loser. With your 11 sec integra...oh your really cool, you must make 20 grand a year lol. And I can see you like to talk about sucking dick and cock a lot, i'm not one to accept little faggots, but hey different strokes...trash.

and

I said integra, i meant the much cheaper eclipse sorry. Also I saw your picture on your site, i see now why you're so upset. You drive a cheap 10 year old car, probably have no woman (maybe a boyfriend), and judging from your picture you must be at least 25-30 years old. Pretty much a waste of life if you ask me, grow up. And as far as being in the 15's, i've been in the 10's thanks though. It's called a 350, also been in the 11's w/ a twin-turbo supra. Don't presume anything about anyone, advice that you won't take, but that's what wasting your life does for you.

Wrong on all accounts, as usual. I'm not impressed. Go flirt with someone else, touch hole.

lol wow joe, you just said everything that I already explained. Please read the posts before jumping ahead and sounding ridiculous. And if you found the definition of demeanor useful, then glad to help.

As for you 95 GSX, you need to go back and read before you throw a hissy fit...READ THE QUESTION ASKED: How do you change clutch engagement point AT THE PEDAL!!! So I answered. Please go back and read. And some one said that they liked to shift as fast as possible. And I simply said, that's the reason that syncho's break. And then you jumped in and said that was bullshit, but failed to give me the reason that they do break, and pawned it off on normal wear and tear. And now you're getting into even further ignorance to what was said, so i'll discontinue this now and let the mod's handle it. I get the feeling you got abused as a child with all the namecalling, but so you know it doesn't bug me at all :). Try to be a reasonable person, I know once you get on the internet you think you can say whatever you want to whoever, but come on, be civil.

After reading the pm's you sent him, you sound like a hypocrite to me.

lol wow joe, you just said everything that I already explained. Please read the posts before jumping ahead and sounding ridiculous. And if you found the definition of demeanor useful, then glad to help.

Gee, I cited you defining demeanor, claiming to have gone to college, and insulting Kevin. But you know, I used my psychic powers to come up with that shit, because you're right--again!!! I didn't read any of the posts in this entire thread. In fact, I'm just guessing what people are probably writing, then waiting for a few posts to go by and posting again.

And yes--I did write something you already explained. I had to reiterate (defined: "repeat again", for Einstein the mechanic) your point because you obviously don't undertand its application. You make the intelligent jump and venture to say that you aren't promoting double-clutching all the time, because that would make synchromesh transmissions obsolete. Yet you encouraged people to double-clutch early in the thread, and condemned fast shifting.

You'd probably argue that one should always use only candles for light, because light bulbs might burn out. Or people should walk barefoot, very slowly, because if they wear shoes and jog or run anywhere, the soles will wear out. Most of what you've written in this thread so far is extremely hypocritical, and your attitude toward being questioned and corrected as been less than humble, especially when you are a guest in a forum with established members who want nothing but to respect eager auto enthusiasts, and be respected back.

It would be nice if the sharing of accurate and useful information could go on, instead of bullshit bickering like this, and opinionated responses represented as fact, like you posted earlier.

Oh, and anther part of a post I didn't read in this thread:

have fun kids I won't be back.

Whatever happened to this resolution? You won't be missed.

omfg, dude here i'll explain it to you from my professional training instead of your random hearsay. The reason you double clutch is to allow the synchro to catch up to the speed of the input shaft so that it can mesh to the gear with no resistance. Please explain to me how that is bullshit, and take heed to your own sig. And after you give me ur wrong answer for that, tell me how a synchro goes bad then. Because if it's not caused by quick shifting then what is it caused by? :) Cuz in your statement, a synchromesh trans's syncho can't go bad. Thanks again.


I am by no means a transmission expert, but with a little research one can easily determine that you are blowing smoke.

Here are the reasons and appropriate times to double clutch:

Double-clutching was common in older cars and is still common in some modern race cars. In double-clutching, you first push the clutch pedal in once to disengage the engine from the transmission. This takes the pressure off the dog teeth so you can move the collar into neutral. Then you release the clutch pedal and rev the engine to the "right speed." The right speed is the rpm value at which the engine should be running in the next gear. The idea is to get the blue gear of the next gear and the collar rotating at the same speed so that the dog teeth can engage. Then you push the clutch pedal in again and lock the collar into the new gear. At every gear change you have to press and release the clutch twice, hence the name "double-clutching."

Here is why there is NO REASON to double clutch with a syncromesh transmission:

Manual transmissions in modern passenger cars use synchronizers to eliminate the need for double-clutching. A synchro's purpose is to allow the collar and the gear to make frictional contact before the dog teeth make contact. This lets the collar and the gear synchronize their speeds before the teeth need to engage.

Notice the word "eliminate" in the above statement. Since you seem to have problems with definitions here you go:

e·lim·i·nate: To get rid of; remove

In closing (now that I have officially wiped the floor with your face), You should probably consider trying to get a refund on your "Professional Training". :loser:

After reading the thread, I don't get the sense that anyone is saying that you must double clutch. One post came close and a few people here acted like their mother was raped.


The last post is quoting http://www.howstuffworks.com/transmission4.htm

It says that double clutching is not necessary - it does not say there was no benefit to it. It will extend the live of the syncros if you do it. Sure its not a lot, but there is some.


The name calling ends now. If people can't disagree without taking potshots at other members, then perhaps you should take the advice of several members, who should heed their own advice, and shut the fuck up