Got a Chance to Buy a Local EvoIII

>>EDIT>>By "EvoIII," I mean "EvoIII 16g"!

Guys, looking for some advice here. I noticed an ad in Trader placed by a guy selling a used EvoIII 16g. He's asking $425 shipped for the turbo, RRE Jpipe, and lower IC pipe, and I think that since he won't have to pay shipping since I'm local, I could probably get it for $400, maybe $410.

Here are my options:

1) Put on the small 16g I have (in good shape), with the stock 1g J-pipe, and making it work with the stock 2g LICP----->$280

2) Buy this EvoIII from the dude with a RRE j-pipe and LICP (which should hook right back up to the stock 2g sidemount) for $400.

All in all, do you think it would be worth the extra money? Decisions, decisions :p

I would do it. The EVO 16g has some nice little upgrades over the regular 16gs besides just being able to flow more. The wheels are lighter so boost threshold is usually very good. Though it is clipped 10 degrees and probably negates all of that benefit. But the added flow may help top end at the track. I would rather see it unclipped though, clipping is a sure way to douche turbine efficiency. Overall though I think it is the better way to go in the end.

Hmm, thanks for the input, Kevin. Also, I meant to ask you--I don't quite understand the downside of the 34mm flapper--I've heard you speak negatively about it in the past, and was wondering if you could elaborate.

Also, do you think the clipping will cause the turbo to lag too much? I'm a little cautious after reading Vince's writeup on his EvoIII experience, and the immense lag he noticed compared to the T25.

Any idea how much the 10* clip will affect spool up time--rpm estimates of full spool on the clipped EvoIII16g vs. the s16g, perhaps?

Dammit, the more I consider the specifics of this turbo, the less I like it. And Kevin said it would be better! Now I'm really confused :banghead:

Better is a relative term. I think a straght evo316g would be better than the clipped one. But people are running sick times on bushur 20gs and they are all clipped. And to be honest I dont have enough experience with clipped turbos to say much. at any rate, there is no way the lag on a 16g, even clipped, will be too much to live with. Shit, 10-15 degree clips on 20gs are still spooling by ~3400 rpm, wtf. :D The S16g should lag more, a 10 cm hosuing is about as big as I run now, wtf.

The problem with the 34mm flapper is this. WGs only build boost when they stay closed. The spring holds it shut, and pressure in the manifold is trying to open it. Pressure times Area = Force. So at the same pressure a larger flapper (more area) will have more force on it, and will blow open sooner. This is why its hard to hod over 22-23 psi on a 34mm flappered 16g. I posted about it on tooners, search using my screen name and "internal blowing open info." Or somehting along those lines. I think thats the name of the thread actually.

Now, someone that knows more about turbos than I do brought up a good point. That is that the WG blowing open will "regulate" back pressure. By keeping the flapper closed longer you increase backpressure, and thereby your exhaust to intake pressure ratio. The general rule of thumb is that you dont want exhaust pressure to be more than double intake (boost) pressure. As exhaust presure goes up its a bitch to get the fresh mixture into the chamber during overlap. Shit moves from high presure to low pressure, so your spent exhaust gasses will actually go backwards, toward the intake manifold (back into the chamber). This is simialr to reversion and dillutes your mixture. It is believed that you can really make some sick HP per liter numbers if you can get exhaust pressure BELOW intake pressure, and I believe corky bell touches on this in his book.

So the question becomes, in practice does having the WG blow open and drop boost hurt performance. In my example I was able to hold boost at 25 psi to redline, rather than 25 psi dropping to 19. Now, airflow DID go up 2 lbs/min. But the car didnt actually run faster. I think I had a bad run and still made the same times, but there is really no conclusive evidence that it helped. 12.02 was still my best time, at the usual 115 mph.

So, if low boost is important to you the 34 may prove helpful, but at the expense of being able to run high boost. And it may not even be helping to run that high boost. WIth the stock flapper you can run more boost, but have to get more creative in porting, etc, to get boost low if you need to. In myh case I never go below 20 psi and i would rather be able to rn high boost. But that may not be your set of requirements ;)

Choose what you think is best based on all this info. Hope it helps.

Without lots of slippage on those mean 1.5 second launches, or speed/no-lift shifting, it should do just fine with 14b/16g power levels. You can still turn up the boost on race gas and run within 98% of the cars potential. Like I said above even though boost went up the car wasnt any faster. Since low boost is a concern for you I would go with the 34mm flapper and be done with it.

Well, tomorrow is decision day. Good to have Kevin's assurance that the stock clutch won't hate low boost on the Evo 16g too much. For the record, Kevin promised to buy and install a new clutch for me in the even that he is wrong about that :grinno:

I will see what the turbo's shaft play is like, take a look at the general condition, etc. I'll let you all know what I decide to do.

Oh, also--I checked DSMtimes.org tonight, and there are a LOT of pretty damn quick times run on small 16gs...who knows :p?

I bought it :D. I think I got a great deal on it, as well--$350 for the turbo, with bent coolant lines, and the RRE Jpipe and LICP. Travis is a very cool guy; he's quite knowledgable and very generous to drive all the way out here. He offered to help me put it on the car if I decide to put it on before I leave UVa for winter break later this month.

I'll post some pics when I get a chance, but I'm pumped about this turbo :iceslolan:

nice. [ im jealous hehe :) ]

nice! , i want a full "kill list" and some pics with the evo III....

I've got one of those :)
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/uploads/71499/16g.jpg

+ DSMLINK

Won't be on until after xmas break (mid january) still need gaskets from RRE and LICP stuff.

Nice! I envy you with the DSMlink as well...

I need to pick up gaskets too, but I might get em from SBR...

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=94&;

Which gaskets are you going to replace?

very nice, Joe's...you guys should start the "Joe 16G club"

very nice, Joe's...you guys should start the "Joe 16G club"

Lol...actually we will have quite a few 16g powered guys on here shortly...

Vince
95GST
maybe Kevin
JoeWagon
I'm sure Jake still has a 16g on one of his Eclipses
Me...

I'm sure there are a few more guys I'm forgetting...anyone else?

I've got one of those :)
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/uploads/71499/16g.jpg

+ DSMLINK

Won't be on until after xmas break (mid january) still need gaskets from RRE and LICP stuff.


Hey another very soon-to-be DSMlink user! :) I just sent the order in for mine last night. Since the car will be down this weekend anyways for a few gasket replacements, I decided it would be a good time to go ahead and order DSMlink so I can send my ecu to them. Hopefully I'll have it in the car sometime late next week! I'm EXTREMELY excited about it and I just can't wait to get started with it :naughty:

My DSMlink is installed, but I need a serial to usb adapter, which I won't have before xmas break. I get back around Jan 15th, and then the 16g goes on.

turbo to o2 gasket, turbo to manifold gasket

My DSMlink is installed, but I need a serial to usb adapter, which I won't have before xmas break. I get back around Jan 15th, and then the 16g goes on.

turbo to o2 gasket, turbo to manifold gasket

Lmao dude, we need the exact same stuff: usb->serial adapter and the gaskets. Wish I had DSMlink though...how much did that stuff set you guys back, all told?

This should be fun...I can't wait for the slew of "Turbo Install" threads that will be coming in the next month or so!

Since I already have a 95 EPROM, DSMlink cost
$603 including socket service and shipping :) . My dad's boss actually had a laptop with a serial port and windows 98, but since it was pretty old and he NEVER used it, he gave it to me for free! :grinyes: Not that bad of a deal when you consider all the advantages DSMlink gives you over anything else (excluding standalones).

so if i wanted DSMlink i would order this package...
Full DSMLink V2 package, EPROM only?

-95 TSi

You'll most likely need the 2nd package deal - Full DSMLink V2 package w/socket service. Your ecu has probably never been socketed, and you must have it socketed. Might as well have them socket it for you!

EDIT>> I'm assuming you already have a 95 EPROM ecu. Even if you have a 95 turbo dsm, it's best to check ahead of time if it is EPROM because there are some 95's that are NOT EPROM. Dsmlink has a page on their site about how to check if you do infact have EPROM :)

I bought a used DSMlink setup, so swapped ECU's and got the plugs and a palm (and all the palm stuff). $550.

Damn you guys are finding some nice deals on DSMlink.

if any one wants to pounce on this deal...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=10583

nice buy bro!

welcome to my 'EVOIII B16g' Club!

not sure who else is running them on this site...

oh and about the lag, i didn't mean it as a negative at all, i was just pointing out that there is a very noticable difference from the Tblah.

but damn is top end a rush!

as for DSMlink, don't worry about it too soon. just get your current setup going.

and get a bigger fuel pump! keep it safe man! those things are cheap! with the SACF you will be able to combat fuel cut, but you are also gong to max out your injectors too. i would definitly recomend getting an EGT so you can see if you are getting too hot under there too.

welcome to the club!!!!! :)

Yeah, next on my list is a 190 lbh pump, and some Evo8 560 cc injectors ;). I should be able to pick up both of those for $200, if I shop around long enough.

I'm not sure an egt gauge is in the near future though :(. I'm not even going to tune the car on stock injectors, so I shouldn't be running too lean.

If anyone finds a good price on an egt gauge, preferably an autometer ultralight, pass it on!

Just as a side note, anyone with DSMlink is on drugs if he doesnt fo right to FIC 950s. Unless you get a sweet deal on used injectors of another size. I upgraded injectors 10 times, dont let that happen to you :D DSMlink runs 950s like stockers.