Lowering Question

I found a '99 Civic Si in good condition but its lowered and i need to drive the car in the winter too... so i'm wondering what parts do i need to buy to bring it back to standard height??

Help me out my AF bredrin

i think the guy said struts, springs and shocks? right?

oh ya and its a choice between the Civic Si and an Integra SE w/leather (which is a little cheaper) but i'm kinda leaning towards the Si cause of the better engine

what would you guys choose?

All you'll need to raise the height is the springs. If you want OEM height you'll want OEM springs. You won't need new shocks unless the shocks are blown. If the shocks are blown replace the shocks while your at it. If the car was lowered on stock shocks then the shocks are likely going to be blown.

A second option is coilovers. You can raise the height up in the winter to the desired height and drop it for spring and summer weather. Just remember to get the car realgined after you change the ride ehight each time. If you go this route, again, if you wnat stock shocks onit now, they'll need to be replaced with qauilty aftermarket shocks like Koni. You can choose non-adjustable or adjustable shocks. Skunk2 and Ground Control are good, they only 2 sleeve type-coilovers I'd recommend. The other coilover option is threaded body coilovers like Tein, H & R's coilovers, Tanabe Sustec-pro, etc. These of course, being a true threaded body coilover, come with new shocks and springs. The most basic will have non-adjustable damping shocks, the most expensive ones will feature adjustable damping shocks.

As for the car/engine, better engine is all in the eye of the beholder. The teg comes with a B18B1. The Si a B16A. The B16A has, vtec, more peak hp and has a higher redline. The B18B1 is non-vtec with a lower redline but has more low-end torque. It also has a lower compression ratio and is considered a better engine to boost if you are going to go the forced induction route. If you can planning on going the n/a route, then you can always do an LS/Vtec. Which motor is better really is a matter of opinion. What are your goals. If you want vtec, don't want to mess around with head swaps and plan to say n/a, the B16A is a better choice. If you want more lowe end torque, or want to turbo themotor, or want a higher overall hp from an n/a motor and fine going the ls/vtec route, then the B18B1 Teg is a better choice. Also, other factors have to be considered. Which engine is in better condition, which car has lower miles on it, etc.

just the stock springs.

thanks for the excellent reply eckoman... i think the guy said he had coilovers on the back wheels and just lowering springs on the front...

I know he said he just had lowering springs on the front and something else on the back wheels i'm pretty sure he said coilovers

The teg has about 19,000 miles more but thats not a big deal cause its $1500 cheaper... which one would you choose? I was just thinking Si cause it comes with 20 extra hp from the get go. I dont plan on turboing it... but that could be a possibility in the future (couple years from now)

The civic only has 38,000 miles and the teg has 57,000

i say the teg (but im biast). if your thinking of turboing... the INTEGRA is your best bet... all motor... SI. is the teg standard?

i say the teg (but im biast). if your thinking of turboing... the INTEGRA is your best bet... all motor... SI. is the teg standard?


every car i look at is standard.... i have never and will never buy an auto. I'm european so we dont fuk with autos... thats for girls and lazy americans :D lol

fuk this is a hard choice... i dunno what i'm gunna do, cause the tegs cheaper

id go with the Si....but why do you need to raise it to stock height for the winter? my car is dropped 2 inches and i have a lip kit and i live in new hampshire....lots of snow in the winter time and had no problems ever with my car.

id go with the Si....but why do you need to raise it to stock height for the winter? my car is dropped 2 inches and i have a lip kit and i live in new hampshire....lots of snow in the winter time and had no problems ever with my car.


the cars pretty much slammed.... i dont want to fuk up the bottem, and i'd never be able to get through bad snow like 6-10 inches deep

does the integra really have that much of an advantage for turboing?? Cause i'm 75/25 for the Si now... I think its a better choice cause its newer, lower mileage, and 20 extra hp from the start.

but if you bought the teg and spent 1500 that you save and an another 1500 the teg would be faster than the civic by far just by taking the money you saved and a little more and turbo the hell out of it just what i would do

does the integra really have that much of an advantage for turboing?? Cause i'm 75/25 for the Si now... I think its a better choice cause its newer, lower mileage, and 20 extra hp from the start.

any B series motor boost just as well as any other considering you boost it right. anyone else saying other wise should start boosting different setups first.

with the proper turbo setup, engine management, buildup, and misc hardware, you will be set.

PS: the same can be said with an SOHC.

any B series motor boost just as well as any other considering you boost it right. anyone else saying other wise should start boosting different setups first.

with the proper turbo setup, engine management, buildup, and misc hardware, you will be set.

PS: the same can be said with an SOHC.


so basically people hype up the advantage the B18 has over the B16 to turbo?
And there really isnt that much difference?

Try boosting 12 psi on a T3/T4 on a B16 and on a B18B and see which one blows up first.

Try boosting 12 psi on a T3/T4 on a B16 and on a B18B and see which one blows up first.

which one? The B16?

Cause i heard that you get better gains turboing the B16... but if you want to go for ALOT of HP than its better going with the B18

Cause i heard that you get better gains turboing the B16... but if you want to go for ALOT of HP than its better going with the B18
How much are you going to spend on aftermarket shit? 6psi on a bone stock Si will put down about 240whp.. With the same on a B18B you'll only see about 200whp. The gears are taller on the non-vtec Integra so you're in boost longer, and yes if you plan on going big (350+hp) I'd turbo the B18. If you plan on building a quick, reliable setup I'd push the 6psi through an Si.

you'll get more HP, but it's torque that makes cars fun to drive.

How much are you going to spend on aftermarket shit? 6psi on a bone stock Si will put down about 240whp.. With the same on a B18B you'll only see about 200whp. The gears are taller on the non-vtec Integra so you're in boost longer, and yes if you plan on going big (350+hp) I'd turbo the B18. If you plan on building a quick, reliable setup I'd push the 6psi through an Si.


Thats what i want... I wanna turbo it down the road in a couple years, but I'm not gunna go crazy (atleast i dont plan on it) and build up the engine to 500hp or something.


Si it is
as long as the engine checks out and it doesnt get sold... its mine

Gotti, I'm glad you found my first post helpful. I'm always glad to help.

My personal opinion is the extra low-end torque advantage of the B18B1 was worth the trade off, but that's me. Honda's can use all the torque they can get, and I'll trade some top-end power for low-end torque any day. The B18B1 puts out more peak torque than the B16A and at quiet a bit lower of an rpm as well, meaning it's available sooner. Ideally the B18B1 would be swapped in a lightweight civic like a DX, where the added torque and lighter weight can make quiet a fun car to drive .As i said in my post before, what's best for who is all about the wants and needs ogf the person.

On a B16A, you don't want to put down more than 8psi on the stock motor in general. the limits can be stretched with good tuning, but that's a good number to shoot for. Also, remember, 2 turbo set-up's both pushing 6psu won't neccessarly put down the same power numbers.

Now a B18B1 can be pushed to 12psi when tuned right. It should definatly have the torque advantage between the 2, and at this level power certainly won't be a concern. A properly tuned B18B1 @ 12psi can put down 270hp @ the wheels. A boosted LS can be relaible, so don't think otherwise. The lower c/r makes the motor more turbo friendly, and as Ricochet mentioned, the taller gearing means you stay in the boost range longer.

You could always go the "a little bit of both worlds" route. You can always take the saved $1500 and do an LS/Vtec conversion, swapping on a B16A head. The will give you the torque and displacement of the B18B1 and the extra power of the vtec head. LS/vtec have the torque of a 1.8 while they can put down 170hp+ @ the wheels.

In the end, if you arn't sure if yuou will ever turbo, I wouldn't buy a car based on turbo considerations. I'd look at your wants and needs. The Si costs more but has less miles. It has more HP but a lot less low end torque. The Teg is $1500 less but has more low end torque, and a LS/Vtec conversion can be done for the saved money and could give the best of both worlds if you are willing to go that route.

In the end, it sounds as if you have been leaning towards the Si. Remember, decide what's important to YOU in a car and buy the car based on that and which better fits your end goals. Don't buy a car based on others, buy it for yourself.

One last thing. It sounds like the Si has suspnesion issues that WILL need to be addressed whether you keep it lowered or decide to go ahead and raise it up, so remember to address the costs of fixing this into the eqaution when caluclating the "price" of the car. It sounded like he lowered the Si on stock shocks. If that's the case it likly will need new shocks. Also, is the Teg lowered, you never mentioned this at all? And if it is how has it been lowered? Coils, springs, coils or springs and new shocks?

One last thing. It sounds like the Si has suspnesion issues that WILL need to be addressed whether you keep it lowered or decide to go ahead and raise it up, so remember to address the costs of fixing this into the eqaution when caluclating the "price" of the car. It sounded like he lowered the Si on stock shocks. If that's the case it likly will need new shocks. Also, is the Teg lowered, you never mentioned this at all? And if it is how has it been lowered? Coils, springs, coils or springs and new shocks?


Nah i checked and the Si has aftermarket shocks, and it'll only cost $150 for the stock springs and the guy will install them for free. And the Teg isnt lowered... its pretty much stock

well it looks like I'll be going for the Integra after all... the Si was a complete piece of shit under it all. I got it checked out at honda and guess what i found out:

The transmissions already been changed, and the bolts on it are loose

The struts are leaking and not installed properly

Theres lowering springs in the front, and coilovers in the back that arent even the same brand.

It had extremely low clutch fluid... and the clutch was just changed

and the kicker.... there was NO oil in the engine. Who the fuck owns an Si and drives it with NO oil in the engine.


there was more, but that was the important shit

You could always go the "a little bit of both worlds" route. You can always take the saved $1500 and do an LS/Vtec conversion, swapping on a B16A head. The will give you the torque and displacement of the B18B1 and the extra power of the vtec head. LS/vtec have the torque of a 1.8 while they can put down 170hp+ @ the wheels.



are you saying that with just the LS/Vtec done you get 170hp to the wheels... or with other mods too?

I've seen dyno charts of ls/vtecs only peaking out at 153whp and 145wtq, and could only rev to 7600 before losing power.. Maybe they set them up wrong/different than the one you saw though..

Ive been boosting 12 psi on a stock b16a2 for 2+ years, dyno tuned hondata S2b on RC 550s, no problems here =)


If your interested in shocks, make me an offer. I have a set of tokico illumina shocks for a 96-00 civic, never been used. brand new and still in the box. =)

well it looks like I'll be going for the Integra after all... the Si was a complete piece of shit under it all. I got it checked out at honda and guess what i found out:

The transmissions already been changed, and the bolts on it are loose

The struts are leaking and not installed properly

Theres lowering springs in the front, and coilovers in the back that arent even the same brand.

It had extremely low clutch fluid... and the clutch was just changed

and the kicker.... there was NO oil in the engine. Who the fuck owns an Si and drives it with NO oil in the engine.


there was more, but that was the important shit


Im interested in the si, where and what is the asking price. is there a number? link to a pix?

I've seen some that put out those power numbers before, but I trust that Ricochet has also seen them with the power numbers he listed also. Maybe it's a tuning or set-up thing, I'm really not sure why the numbers different like that. The one I saw used a B16A head. Still, let's not look at the differnce between the 153hp he saw on one and the 170hp I saw on one, lets look at his torque number. The 145lb-ft or torque will make that one heck of a fun car to drive, far better than the 111lb-ft the B16A Si would have gotten. You'll find the 34lb-ft of torque gained there far more useful in daily driving than the 17hp difference betwen the 2 peak HP numbers. 153@ the wheels is still more than a 160hp B16A would put down at the wheels. No matter where in the range he and I have provided the final dyno number falls, it's still more power and a lot more torque than the Si.

It's a good thing you had the Si check out, that thing was a piece. I always amazes me how people can be so stupid to let a prefectly nice car go to crap like that guy did.

Im interested in the si, where and what is the asking price. is there a number? link to a pix?


Why would you even consider it.... you'd have to replace the engine within a couple weeks. It's not worth $11,000

Not to mention the suspension

I've seen dyno charts of ls/vtecs only peaking out at 153whp and 145wtq, and could only rev to 7600 before losing power.. Maybe they set them up wrong/different than the one you saw though..
^^^werd, compression has a lot do with GSR motors being able to hit 175 flywheel horsepower. I've never seen a stock LS/VTEC setup hitting 170 whp.

well it looks like I'll be going for the Integra after all... the Si was a complete piece of shit under it all. I got it checked out at honda and guess what i found out:

The transmissions already been changed, and the bolts on it are loose

The struts are leaking and not installed properly

Theres lowering springs in the front, and coilovers in the back that arent even the same brand.

It had extremely low clutch fluid... and the clutch was just changed

and the kicker.... there was NO oil in the engine. Who the fuck owns an Si and drives it with NO oil in the engine.


there was more, but that was the important shit
this is exactly why you NEVER buy a modified car. Glad you did the smart thing and had a mechanic inspect it before buying it.

this is exactly why you NEVER buy a modified car. Glad you did the smart thing and had a mechanic inspect it before buying it.

it wasnt even modified.... it was just lowered. Nothing done to the engine. Everything was stock.

i would never buy a modified car... cause you know people were drivin it hard

that would be modifying the suspension and from what you said he had no idea what the fuck he was doing.

I agree with eckoman_pdx the torque is what makes the difference. I drive a 4th gen prelude with an H23a1 in it. It puts out 160hp and 156 lb-ft at just about 5500 rpms and it is one fun car to drive. To add to that a civic is a significantly lighter car, mine weighing in at about 2850 lbs. Do the b18/vtec conversion because you'll love it.

it wasnt even modified.... it was just lowered. Nothing done to the engine. Everything was stock.

i would never buy a modified car... cause you know people were drivin it hard


not all people drive there modded cars hard. im one of em. i rarely put my car in boost.

$11,000 for that si is a tad high. I considered selling mine for $10,000 and it has been extremely well taken care of. Though, the low oil level is a factor to considered, i would have prefered a compression and leak down test instead to make a decision concerning the motor on any used car.

The new tranny should be fine as long as there is enough fluid and it does not give any signs of extreme wear. The bolts are easily tightened up. Springs up front and coils in the rear with different names should affect the ride quality and leaking struts are both reasons to knock off the price down a bit. If the clutch has been recently changed, a reciept should be asked for confirmation (or maybe im just one of the few who keeps reciepts of everything i buy). The mileage should also be a consideration along with the cosmetic condition. Maintenence logs should also be checked to see if he kept a good record of his maintenence.

The actual price should be approached towards the seller with the actual kelley blue book price. If he is still unwilling to sell at the indicated price, then say good bye and wish him luck in his sale.

$11,000 for an si............................it better be in excellent condition.

The actual price should be approached towards the seller with the actual kelley blue book price. If he is still unwilling to sell at the indicated price, then say good bye and wish him luck in his sale.

$11,000 for an si............................it better be in excellent condition.


Im in Toronto

$11,000 canadian dollars = about $9,250 US dollars

Im in Toronto

$11,000 canadian dollars = about $9,250 US dollars

Wait a minute. So you are in Canada? Was this Si a Canadian spec Si or a US spec Si? The Canadian spec Si is the same as the US spec EX. It has a SOHC D16Y8 motor. The US spec Si is the same as the Canadian spec SiR. These have a DOHC B16A motor. If you were looking at a Canadian spec Si, then even if it were in good conditon I wouldn't take it over the Teg. A D16Y8 vs a B18B1 is no contest. I am curious, was the car a Canadian Si (which as I said above is sohc d-series) or a US Si (same as canadian SiR, which has a B16A)?

GScivic7, I have seen an LS/Vtec hit 170 before. Whtether 170 is on the higher power side or not, 153 is a little low for the LS/Vtec's I've seen. The one I mentioned originally had no internal work that I knew of (though it wasn't my car so don't quote me), it had the basic bolt on's though and was dyno tuned. An LS/vtecs should hit into the 160 power range fine, 153 seems a little on the low end. The compression ratio gets a little bump with the new head in know into the high 9's or around 10.0:1 depending on the head chosen (don't have the numbers in front of me but can dig them up if needed), plus the B18B1 has a little more displacement than the GSR (1834cc to 1797cc). I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe a B16A head LS/Vtec conversion should have around 1831cc or so. I'd have to look in my notebooks for the actual displacement numbers. At any rate, who cares, 170hp, 155hp, it's the big torque gain that will make it fun to drive:) On a side note, 7600rpm is a little higher than I'd want to rev an LS block. The head may be B16A, ITR or GSR but the block is still LS and not ment to be rev'd much past 7000. At any rate, this would effect peak hp a bit depending on the engine tune (since HP = Torque * rpm/5252) but the peak torque, which hit's relativly low by comparison, would still be the same.

Wait a minute. So you are in Canada? Was this Si a Canadian spec Si or a US spec Si? The Canadian spec Si is the same as the US spec EX. It has a SOHC D16Y8 motor. The US spec Si is the same as the Canadian spec SiR. These have a DOHC B16A motor. If you were looking at a Canadian spec Si, then even if it were in good conditon I wouldn't take it over the Teg. A D16Y8 vs a B18B1 is no contest. I am curious, was the car a Canadian Si (which as I said above is sohc d-series) or a US Si (same as canadian SiR, which has a B16A)?


It was an SiR.. US spec Si with the B16

I wouldnt even consider the EX compared to the Teg... i'm just used to using the american names. cause i'm from New York

for an ls vtec to make decent power it is suggested to change the pistons and make it higher compression. the reason being is that for some reason the power starts droppping after 7500 rpm. a stock lsvtec produces like 140 hp. but an ls vtec with type r cams dc header short ram intake, dynotuned makes 185hp. (hp numbers are to the wheels.) i used to have an lsvtec. i ran 14.4 in a 98 hatch. thats with an ls tranny stock headers short ram intake and exhaust. the motor was running way too rich and all the sensors werent working properly. (the car was 98 the motor 94) i had a 18b1 block and b18c1 head. the motor was blown due to a little accident and my mistake of not having a rev limitor. 4 bent valves was the damage but the motor now rebuilt sits in my friends 95 gsr. he told me that he was racing a new cobra svt, and after 120 he smoked him. anyway heres the website check out what is possible http://www.importreview.com/d_1.8.html personnaly i would get the integra. u would have 1500 dollars left over. start lookig for a vtec head. either itr gsr or si. then eventually buy a turbo and throw everything together when u get all the parts. ur compression is going to be pretty low good for turbo.

btw my motor was revved to 8500 rpms and never had a problem, probably never will. right now it is controlled by a stock ecu so its being revved to 8200.

for an ls vtec to make decent power it is suggested to change the pistons and make it higher compression. the reason being is that for some reason the power starts droppping after 7500 rpm. a stock lsvtec produces like 140 hp. but an ls vtec with type r cams dc header short ram intake, dynotuned makes 185hp. (hp numbers are to the wheels.)
thats what I had figured. No way you could make 170 whp with stock B18B block.

anyway heres the website check out what is possible http://www.importreview.com/d_1.8.html

link doesnt work

thanks for sharing your experience tho

works for me. Looks like all you need are some higher compression pistons, a few bolt ons and a good tune and you have yourself a quick street car.

works for me. Looks like all you need are some higher compression pistons, a few bolt ons and a good tune and you have yourself a quick street car.

yup works now

Whats the average price to do the LS/Vtec?

thats what I had figured. No way you could make 170 whp with stock B18B block.

Like I said above man, don't quote me that nothing beyond I/H/E was done as it wasn't my car. I knew though that he hit 170hp and it wasn't terribly modded beyond the I/H/E it obviously had. I said before I knew for sure it had the basic bolt on's (I/H/E) so it wasn't just a "stock" LS/Vtec in that regard (since you said a stock one wouldn't put down near 170hp). That being said let's assume that with the /H/E, he only had a 12hp bump from the base 153hp ricochet listed. That's still 165hp, a nice bump from 153hp and pretty close to the 170hp I was told it put down. That's not an entily stock LS/Vtec, I never said is was. I as said before, I knew it had I/H/E for sure. That's not too far off numbers wise. The only thing that combo is missing from what ~ls/vtec~ mentioned is the cams, and it's very plausable/possible he had some cams or gears in and forgot to mention it. Still, either way the point I made oringally doesn't change. The point has it's not hard to get powerout of an LS/Vtec, and in all this numbers arguing some people seem to have lost that point. Both the 165-170 and the 185 we have mentioned show just that, that an LS/Vtec responds well to mods. It's not that hard to get 170hp+ out of an LS/Vtec. I/H/E and type-r cams dyno tuned really ins't a lot to do considering the end result of 185whp (which once the 11.9% drivetrain loss of a FWD vehcile is factored backin eqautes to 210hp @ the crank).

Also on a side note, I/H/E and cams dyno tuned to reach 185hp is still a pretty stock block all things considered. It's headwork (cams) and bolt-ons, not really block work. In that regard, it's still 185hp on the stock LS block. pIstions and rods weren't changed, nothing re-sleeved. It was the cams (head) and bolt-ons.

Whats the average price to do the LS/Vtec?

it all depends. heres an idea of what i spent.

i already had a complete shortblock(b18b1), and a head that was converted for the ls vtec(b18c1) but it had 7 bent valves.

eagle h beam rods, srp 11.1 c/r pistons, je rings, cometic head gasket = 1,000

new timing belt = 80

new water pump = 55

b18c1 oil pan and oil pick up = 100

b18c1 main caps (for crank) and oil girdle = 100

Type r oil pump = 75

shave the head, 3 angle valve job, 7 new valves = 500

new main bearings = 160

new rod bearings = 110

bore the block 20 over(stock is 85mm bore, now its 85.5mm. that almost makes it a 1.9) = 120

knock sensor = 65

all adds up to about 2400. but dont forget its recommended to get head bolts, and u also need the external oil line. u can probably get a short block for like 200 and the gsr head with wiring for 500. so thats probably like another 1000.