Alclad WARNING

I've personally never used Alclad colours before, but on another forum I attend to, a fellow modeler posted a thread about the fineprint on the Alclad grey primer (and on the gloss black base) that read:

Warning
"This product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer or birth defects or other reproductive harm"

http://www.automodelista.org/images/attach/alclad2.jpg


Concerned about this, he emailed Alclad for more information:

----- Original Message -----
From: Miguel Brito
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:48 AM
Subject: query


Dear sirs
Regarding the fine print notice on your grey primer and gloss black base cans, about cancer and reproductive harm, I would like to know:

1- Where can I find more information about this subject and, from your point of view, what do you consider harzardous usage of these products.
2- What other unharmful products can be used to replace these primers, keeping the Alclad lacquer shine and quality.

Thanks in advance

And their (pretty evasive) response:

1-www.osha.gov this site has details of various solvents and their properties
2-I don't know
Tony Hipp
Alclad II


Does anyone have any more information, or has read anything about this?
So many people use Alclad products, it's a very, VERY big issue here....

Regards,
Pedro.

everything in california is known to cause cancer and birth defects.. It even says it on some testors paints.

All my glues and stuff say that lol if you use it safely and properly you should be at no risk

That's actually a pretty standard disclaimer. I started looking at all my cans of paint. The following is a list of products with this disclaimer:

Testors Sprays
Krylon Primers
Rustoleum Primers
Duplicolor Sprays
Plasticote Sprays
Testors Enamels in the jar
Testors Brush Cleaner
Testors Glosscoat and Flat Lacquer
Model Master Lacquer thinner
Plasticote Scratch Color touch up bottle
Honda Touch-up Paint
Squadron White Putty

Tamiya paints, the Volvo touch-up I have would probably also have it if they were bottled in the U.S.

The key is just to be safe while building, build in a well ventilated area and don't abuse the paints and chemicals (no matter how great the temptation!). You will be hard pressed to find a primer that doesn't have the chemicals that "cancer, birth defects and reproductive harm." I don't think Alclad is being particularly evasive, though their response could have been better. I think you make a good point, though, about how important it is to be safe while building, and to not forget that we are actualyl dealing with harsh chemicals.

If you can name me 5 thing that don't cause cancer today, let me know

btw, this warning is on every bottle of Alclad II (not only primer or base coat. Like willimo, praticly every paint have this disclamer.

As I said, this was a concern of a fellow modeler :)
I didn't know this was a "general" warning...I guess we were just spooked when he posted this...

Either way, Will is very right:
"(...)how important it is to be safe while building, and to not forget that we are actualyl dealing with harsh chemicals.(...)"


@Vric: 5 things?
sex, sex, sex, sex, oh....and sex :D

Odd that it only causes cancer if you're in California. As I'm the other side of the Atlantic I guess I'll be fine...

Seriously, follow the precautions and you should be fine. Building models as a hobby your exposure will be minimal. If you use it 12 hours a day seven days a week worry a little more. The Ketone bit is where it gets nasty. They are not plesent chemicals, but as others have said almost nothing we use is.

BTW - did you know that carpet can cause blood poisoning? There was a report ten years ago that said if you walked barefoot on carpet for 14 hours a day, for a couple of hundred years the toxins would build up to a fatal dose. I wonder if carpets cause cancer in California...

That warning is on everything you can imagine.

@Vric: 5 things?
sex, sex, sex, sex, oh....and sex :D

Ok maybe you can't get cancer with sex, but you can get something very unpleasant :D

Can't even go into Home Depot without reading that warning at the door...

Of course, if you are concerned about such things you can use personal protective equipment (PPE). In the United States (and elsewhere?), the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) should be available from the manufacturer and/or sales point and it will tell you what you can do to handle the material safely. Most likely it would recommend a respirator of sorts, gloves and safety glasses? Good ventilation is always good practice.

Get the MSDS and learn - have fun.

Steve

As long as you don't live in California... :D

I already had cancer, NOT fun, follow the precautions!

On a semi-related note, alumilite casting resin, the label says wear gloves for a reason. :)

http://www.alumilite.com/

If you get the 2nd part of the mold-making material on your hands, it will eat through 2 or 3 layers of skin. Took a couple months to heal over.

The replacement for the Alcad II basecoats is any Tamiya TS color. I use TS-14 (gloss black) under AlcadII Chome with spooky results (i.e. is really does look like chrome). Of course the TA line (when purchased from a North American distributor) also has the "known in Cali" warning (applied by Tamiya N.A.) on the can, soooo......

Build fast, die young and leave a large collection for the kids ;-)>

Bill

The replacement for the Alcad II basecoats is any Tamiya TS color. I use TS-14 (gloss black) under AlcadII Chome with spooky results (i.e. is really does look like chrome).


Isn't alcald ask for Enamel base coat for Chrome ? I think it don't stick on Lacquer (Tamiya) paint

I'm in wait to get Enamel black to test it..

A rather lengthly cancer 2 cents and why "it's ok and not ok". Skip to bottom for cliff notes. Disclaimer: Simplified for a general audience

As a 2nd year doctor in training I've had my scares lately about what causes cancer. Let me be the one to agree with vric...everything causes cancer. Everything in excess that is. The idea behind toxin induced neoplasms (cancers) is that a harmful substance entering the body, known or otherwise, stimulates the body to rebuild the cells that become damaged. This is much the same idea in lifting weights; to 'tear' the muscle only so it grows back stronger. Well the problem with most other cells in the body is that they're not built to 'come back stronger'. When the cells in a certain part of your body (lungs, skin), get damaged by a chemical, in this case toluene, the cells grow back in a 'hyperproliferative' (read..many cells in short time) manner in an attempt to 'be stronger'.

This process is akin to you 'having' to make 5 models in one week because a big show is coming up. Needless to say, that leaves you VERY prone to errors and doesn't allow you to initiate all your useful error checking steps. So in the case of the cells, this replication might come with mutations (or mistakes if you will). These cells now are the rogue bad-asses that can go hay-wire and duplicate themselves to no end and cause damage by taking over the 'neighborhood of healthy cells' and running them out of nutrients and other good stuff. End result...big balls of bad cells.. "tumors"

This process theoritically 'can' occur anytime your body is exposed to a harmful agent...namely, a carcinogen. But lucky for us, our bodies can fight these bad boys off the way we would bacteria and viruses. The problem comes when the EXPOSURE IS REPEATED CHRONICLY. Sooner or later, chemicals always win out...just a matter of time. Some take years, some take decades or centries (just in theory). Whether it's tolulene, alchohol, smoke, pesticides, lubricants, glow-in-the-dark stuff or just plain old smog, we are not supermen.

The idea is to minimize CONCENTRATED exposure if repeat exposures are necessary.

1. Use ventilation...this will dilute the concentration of the bad stuff by mixing it with regular stuff in the air, thereby making it a less potent toxin

2. Use proper protection...if you've got no windows near, it's freezing or you just don't wanna open a window, wear a mask with a filter. This will ...duh filter out (hopefully) the bad stuff. If applying putty with tolulene, wear latex gloves.

3. Don't be stupid...if it's the styrene glue, don't take deep breaths close to it, if it's putty you handle with your hands...WASH THEM. NEVER EAT AFTER MODELING WITHOUT WASHING YOUR HANDS!

4. Take brakes...allow your body time to recup from long bouts of filtering paint fumes and fuzzy fur dust.

5. Don't worry too much...these precautions are really only for hardcore modelers who spend hours every day for years. The bad stuff needs time to accumulate and do it's duty so don't worry if you're not one of those.

If you are...please take care of yourself, this is a potentially serious issue that can be minimized for your own good, as well as for those who care about you.

Great explanation spidereddie. I agree that you should minimise your exposure to such chemicals but at the same time not be too concerned at the small risk factor. If you worried about everything that is supposed to be able to harm you, you'd be too scared to leave home - and even that ain't safe!

Ok maybe you can't get cancer with sex, but you can get something very unpleasant :D

sex can give you cancer. I have references for proof if needed.

A few sexually transmitted viruses have just recently been implicated as DEFINITE caues of cancer. Namely, a virus that is a very distant cousin of HIV...HPV causes nasty bumps and can stay in your body latently and can lead to cancer of the 'private parts'. HLTV-1, EBV and other sexally transmitted viruses show evidence of causing cancer

Isn't alcald ask for Enamel base coat for Chrome ? I think it don't stick on Lacquer (Tamiya) paint

I'm in wait to get Enamel black to test it..


Sticks just fine over TS14. I've got several 1:20th F1 exhausts to prove it too ;-)>

Now what I _HAVE_ heard and experienced is that it doesn't stick too well to AlcadII's own branded undercoat (the gloss black enamel shown in the first post)...to each his own and your results may vary ;-)>

Bill

spidereddie, thank you very much for you very elucidative answer! (I'm sure you'll turn out a great doctor..you use examples like no other doctor I know :))

As for sex, I meant it as a joke, but I had no idea that it could cause cancer...(I meant sex in the act it self, not the diseases attached to ir :D)

I want to kindly thank you all for you opinions. I'm sure there are many, many modelers (specially the younger ones) that don't know some of the dangers of using such products, and I hope that, with this thread, some minds can be changed.

Sticks just fine over TS14. I've got several 1:20th F1 exhausts to prove it too ;-)>

Now what I _HAVE_ heard and experienced is that it doesn't stick too well to AlcadII's own branded undercoat (the gloss black enamel shown in the first post)...to each his own and your results may vary ;-)>

Bill

thanks. I will try. I have a brand new TS-14 spraycan that I never used yet

I want to kindly thank you all for you opinions. I'm sure there are many, many modelers (specially the younger ones) that don't know some of the dangers of using such products, and I hope that, with this thread, some minds can be changed.


Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad it was recieved positively. I was a bit reluctant to post so long, but yes you are correct, it's important for people to just get a better understanding of things we're surrounded by.

What about tamiya acrylics? is there anything we should worry about in those?

In California (and increasingly in the rest of the US,) people like to sue other people about the most rediculous things. Warning labels abound in an effort to shift the responsibility of using any given product back onto the user.

:2cents:

I live in California and I see those signs everywhere. Not only on products, but in random places. In my old apartment complex there was about five of those signs in my parking lot, laundry room, mail box center, by the pool, etc. Like Jay said it is just a way to relieve yourself of any responsibility. I just think its funny that only the state of California thinks it causes cancer, is everyone else denying the fact that it causes cancer or what??