Which of these subs would you get?

you might want to look into a couple other companys also

www.stereointegrity.com
www.soundsplinter.com
www.orioncaraudio.com

every W6v2 set up ive ever heard has had around the SQ of 3500 SQ set ups ive heard. of course around here all w6set ups are SPL because that is all people car about so that is all the idiotic shops install... im one of the few in this town that does my own audio work... so really i shouldnt have bashed the w6v2's but i was going on personal experence...

the w6v2 is an extremely great sq sub......

9500's where built for sound reproduction...what are you talking about? my god.


until i see a dd9500 score high points in the SQ portion of an IASCA comp, i will not see it as a pure sound quality sub. With such a high motor force, i don't see the objective of the engineers was for sound quality. Anyone knows that if SQ was the goal, too much BL is not good. You lose low-end performance.



To my knowledge Adire has charts on all of hteir woofers to what sized sealed enclsoure will allow for maximum excursion... neitehr RE nor DD do this.

yes, thats why i said no company does that unless they show a chart of it.



3.5cubes on a singular 15 displacing htat much air? and you are talking to me about SQ? i geuss so if you like the sound of a very windy port. I know you know better than that to make such comments. the box size has almost nothing to do with port velocity. The port itself determines the velocity.


a ported box only peaks at around the tuneing frequincy, this peak can be easily off set for SQ by low tuning and proper port size for proper port velocity. along time ago Halibane showed me what playing around in WinISD will do for you...maybe you should do the same.


sure you can tune the port lower. you smoothen out the response down low, but guess what, you'll also lose top-end. Your rolloff will be at a lower freq. than if you were to tune it at a higher freq.




75mm is what it takes to bottom out the suspension. which can be done with out, as sr20 stated, thermaling the coils. [quote] if 75mm is the suspension, then why imply it was peak to peak xmax when comparing with the XXX? Also, the limits on the suspension does not relate to the thermal power of the coil. My idmax in an infinite baffle will reach full excursion with only 300w, but the coil will take up to 1kw daily.



[quote]DD also markets agianst Xmax since, as is true, xmax doesnt state how well a motor can stop a coil and then turn it a round in the other direction. if 10mm out of your excursion is the morot trying to slow and pull the cone in the other dirtection bass gets slopy and isnt as loud.

xmax doesn't tell you how well it can stop a cone, but it can tell you that at xmax, you are at 70% of the total BL from the rest position. Lose more BL and you're shooting up the THD. What does tell you how well the motor can accelerate the cone is inductance.




9500 uses a standard coil...however the magnet set up uses extra long magentic feilds. though it isnt as good as XBL it is still the highest of highs. im not and never did bash the XXX nor the Brahma. im jsut tired of everyone saying "oh yes they have XBL^2, they are the greatest in the world for SQ and SQL."

Almost all coils looks the same to me. The same ol' cylinder coil. Still highest of the high? i'm not sure what you mean, since that topology is used in almost every sub out there. And i agree, the brahma and xxx are not the end of all sub because there is no such thing.





the XXX wasnt made to shoot out SQ either. because if they did they wouldnt be paying adire for XBL^2. they would most likely be paying JL for DMA technoligy since, after all, when looking for SQ XBL delivers almsot no THD but DMA does also. the XXX is a widely used SPL woofer and so is the Brahma and so is the 9100, 9500, and 9900 (which are so expensive because DD only makes a limited ammount).

The XXX wasn't made to shoot out SQ? i beg to differ. Please talk to my friend David over at RE. The design itself has SQ written all over it. I'm not sure why RE would ask JL for the technology. Adire audio are built by Destijl. RE happens to be Destijl and they share some of the same stuff. Wouldn't be logical to go to another company. Again, I don't think you know exactly why RE uses the XBL^2.

The design of the XBL^2 is cheaper than the DMA of JL. They have the SAME goals, but different approach to it. The XBL^2 has the top plate designed to channel flux, so you don't lose as much BL when your cone moves. In the JL audio, the vented pole piece is crossed-drilled to channel the flux. With JL's method, you would need to have a longer coil, and that increases the inductance. JL's method is more expensive than Adire's method.




3500's are good for daily drivers, if you where looking for SQ i would have reccomended the 9100 or 2500. but w/e.

I did not see a 9100 back then to buy it. All i saw was a 3500 so i went with what was there.

As yourself this, are you really going to buy a sub at MSRP?
You can get a 13w7 with warranty if you know where to look. that "only" 300 more is now "only" 700 more. I'll take (2) 13w7 over a 9917.

well 1299 is also MSRP for the 9917... you can get them for probably 950 new and 600 used and 400 if they have a burnt coil. id say buy the one with the burnt coil from an SPL competitor. and then send it off to DD to have it reconed and/or just re-coiled. im not sure of DD's prices for that as they constantly vary but it would probably cost you around 150 for just a recoil and around 300 for recone and recoil. id go through all that hassle to me some DD's.... another thing, i liek to be different... 17's by a company no one has heard of... well yes i would spend the extra 300 or w/e for it. but thats just me.

DD can put in a new coil without a whole new spider/cone assembly? didn't know that. lol.



Last i checked for the 9500, reconing was around 250 also +/- $50 :p. I found a blown 9515 for $100+shipping last time, but it was the b-model, not e :(

im sorry, i had it backwards, its 150 if the coil is still good but your gone has say a hole in it or something.

May i ask a question, why is one 15" better then two 12"?

May i ask a question, why is one 15" better then two 12"?

As for 2 12s vs 1 15, in general the 15 will be able to play lower due to a lower resonant frequency, but the pair of 12's 9 times out of 10 will out displace the 15, meaning they will have the ability to get slightly louder at full output. However, to reach full output, they'll need twice as much power and a larger box.

plus a pair of 12's will cost almost twice as much

Good thread, I've learned more in one week than I have in 5 years because of all of this debating and great responses to my questions. Thanks everyone! Now my final obstacle to overcome is a design for a box to fit into the trunk of a 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GT. I'll post the dimensions in a second.

Interior Cargo Volume 16.0cu.ft

Also, would the ZRS-9 amplifier be considerably better for a single 15" XXX over the ZRS-8?

http://www.audio-direct.com/cgi-bin/pgen_asp/pagegen.asp?itemnum=ZRS-9

Also, what exactly is the Magic 3 upgrade?

imo thats too much for a sub amp..........get a jbl 1200.1 or two, or three and your still under the price of that amp, a waste if ya ask me....

I don't like JBL all that much.

At the most you'll only gain about a decibel by going with the zrs-9 over the 8, but you will gain some headroom. The zrs-8 should put out a bit over 1500 anyway, I think it would be fine.

And sure you could buy a lot of JBLs for less, but they aren't as good, no matter how many you have. The sound quality isn't as good, and their 1ohm stability is questionable. I would much rather have mine over a pair of brutus 1500ds or a pair of JBL 1200.1s. In my opinion if you have the money it's not a bad choice at all, I still have yet to read a negative review on any cadence amp, period. And I also noticed a significant improvement in sound quality when I switched from my Avionixx to the Cadence.

I don't like JBL all that much.

i hope thats an opinion, because those jbl amps are great, they'll put out somthin like 1350 at 2 ohms, and will do the same at 1 ohm.

At the most you'll only gain about a decibel by going with the zrs-9 over the 8, but you will gain some headroom. The zrs-8 should put out a bit over 1500 anyway, I think it would be fine.

And sure you could buy a lot of JBLs for less, but they aren't as good, no matter how many you have. The sound quality isn't as good, and their 1ohm stability is questionable. I would much rather have mine over a pair of brutus 1500ds or a pair of JBL 1200.1s. In my opinion if you have the money it's not a bad choice at all, I still have yet to read a negative review on any cadence amp, period. And I also noticed a significant improvement in sound quality when I switched from my Avionixx to the Cadence.

well, if you wanna argue sound quality in amps when it comes to subbass, thats fine with me, but power is power when it comes to subs. if you were using it for comps i'd understand, but for a sub amp i'd say 750 bucks is a big waste of money. when you could get more than double the power for 300$ less...... and i highly doubt that anyone would be able to notice an sq difference when the two are switched.

I already said that I DID notice a difference, a very large difference when I switched out the Avionixx for the Cadence, from the very first song I played after the switch. And I'm not talking about the power difference, the upper bass (60-80hz region) became much more defined, the sub sounded smoother through the whole freq range, the low bass (30-40hz region) didn't just jump in out of nowhere, it blended with itself much better than with the Avionixx. And the Avionixx was no flea-market amp, it was around $300 for 800x1. Say what you will, I know what I heard.

How do you push 1350w at 2ohm and the same on the wattage on 1ohm with the same amp?.... that isnt reality. 1350@2ohm 2700@2ohm.

and all you are wrong

TRU TECH ALL THE WAY.
lol... too bad their stiff cost 4 times of companies such as Hifonics (whihc IMO put JBL to shame SQ wise)

and no. even in Subbass power isnt power. i cna supply 900w with a clean signal or 900w from a 450w amplifier supply a nearly square (suverly clipped) wave. SQ will be horible from the 450... also, THD introduced becomes very prevelant if you know hte track once yo uget into high volumes (over 115dB is where i personally start really picking up extra harmonics)

boo to TRU :p





unless you have nothing in life to spend on except amps, go TRU. Otherwise, look for something else. lol.

A buddy of mine is a dealer for TRU. While I can get TRU for cheap, I refuse to do so, mainly because I don't wanna hop on the bandwagon (ECA perhaps?) and make it like it's god's gift. :D

How do you push 1350w at 2ohm and the same on the wattage on 1ohm with the same amp?.... that isnt reality. 1350@2ohm 2700@2ohm.


the amp is regulated, like JL, it adjusts the rail voltage depending on what you attach to it

boo to TRU :p





unless you have nothing in life to spend on except amps, go TRU. Otherwise, look for something else. lol.

A buddy of mine is a dealer for TRU. While I can get TRU for cheap, I refuse to do so, mainly because I don't wanna hop on the bandwagon (ECA perhaps?) and make it like it's god's gift. :D

ECA used to be tru, now its old school hifonics, zapco, and dls mostly.

you a member at ECA??

CBFryman, how about you take that guy up on his challenge its 10,000 dollars in your pocket if you can tell two amps apart with the same power output, i know there might be other guidlines, but you seem to be confident that you can do it, if power isn't power....

ECA used to be tru, now its old school hifonics, zapco, and dls mostly.

you a member at ECA??



TRU died down? wow. never thought it'd be like that. hahha

Whenever TRU pops up, it's always better by default to some people :rolleyes:


i'll stick to my road gear thank you :grinyes:

yea. i'm a member of ECA. I was many years ago, but then somehow couldn't log back in and then had to re-register and now i'm a newb again. lol

TRU died down? wow. never thought it'd be like that. hahha

Whenever TRU pops up, it's always better by default to some people :rolleyes:


i'll stick to my road gear thank you :grinyes:

yea. i'm a member of ECA. I was many years ago, but then somehow couldn't log back in and then had to re-register and now i'm a newb again. lol


Tru is still around and selling strong

Tru is too damn expensive just like JL.

tru is cheaper than jl

i'll stick to my road gear thank you :grinyes:

Isn't that the Walmart crap? I don't laugh often on forums, but that one made me laugh :).

i hope thats an opinion, because those jbl amps are great, they'll put out somthin like 1350 at 2 ohms, and will do the same at 1 ohm.

It is painfully obvious that it is an opinion. I just don't Like JBL.

TRU's smallest T-series is obviously cheaper than the JL 1000/1. lol

It is painfully obvious that it is an opinion. I just don't Like JBL.

i don't see how the jbl puttin 1350 at 2 ohms is an opinion and niether is the fact that they are only 200$ at sounddomain. but if 1350 watts of reliable power at 200$ isn't great, tell me what is. if you don't like jbl i don't mind, but i wouldn't consider what i said an opinion in the least......

CBFryman, how about you take that guy up on his challenge its 10,000 dollars in your pocket if you can tell two amps apart with the same power output, i know there might be other guidlines, but you seem to be confident that you can do it, if power isn't power....

you seriously do think that power is power when it comes to bass? a square signal will sound LIKE CRAP. about like a license plate rattleing on top of destroying your coils.
as i said before (though i will shed some light on it)

If i take amp 'X' rated to 1500w amp and amp 'Y' rated to 1500w.

Amp 'Y' had been shown to be able to bench 1600w@1ohm clean signal.

The highest reality clean wattage amp 'X' can bench is 800w@1ohm.

We will look at the signal. now we all know that wattage is Amperes*voltage.
@1ohm total average current passing through the coils will be 40a. this is at one ohm impeadence; in other words, what ever frequincy will give that coil exactly a 1ohm load.

if at Point A amp 'X' can no longer produce a signal verticaly it must produce extra wattage horazontaly, result? clipped signal. since the voltage will stay the same for a longer period of time it will move more current in that period of time and there for more wattage.

amp 'X' that can normally only produce 800w clean producing 1600w will have a suverely clipped (almost completely square) signal. this will cause the coil to slam forward, stop, idle (very short), then move in the other direction. the sound will be slightly quieter than amp 'Y' and will be very muddy and distorted (yes even bass frequincies)

Amp 'Y' will make the coil move forward, stop and allow the suspension to start moving the coil back the other way untill the signal moves in the other direction. the coild stays cooler, the sound is heard as it is sappsed to be heard and is slightly louder (i say only slightly because total wattage is total wattage. the distorted wattage will be louder than the clean wattage but not as loud beause Amp 'Y' will reach greater excursions).

you seriously do think that power is power when it comes to bass? a square signal will sound LIKE CRAP. about like a license plate rattleing on top of destroying your coils.
as i said before (though i will shed some light on it)

If i take amp 'X' rated to 1500w amp and amp 'Y' rated to 1500w.

Amp 'Y' had been shown to be able to bench 1600w@1ohm clean signal.

The highest reality clean wattage amp 'X' can bench is 800w@1ohm.

We will look at the signal. now we all know that wattage is Amperes*voltage.
@1ohm total average current passing through the coils will be 40a. this is at one ohm impeadence; in other words, what ever frequincy will give that coil exactly a 1ohm load.

if at Point A amp 'X' can no longer produce a signal verticaly it must produce extra wattage horazontaly, result? clipped signal. since the voltage will stay the same for a longer period of time it will move more current in that period of time and there for more wattage.

amp 'X' that can normally only produce 800w clean producing 1600w will have a suverely clipped (almost completely square) signal. this will cause the coil to slam forward, stop, idle (very short), then move in the other direction. the sound will be slightly quieter than amp 'Y' and will be very muddy and distorted (yes even bass frequincies)

Amp 'Y' will make the coil move forward, stop and allow the suspension to start moving the coil back the other way untill the signal moves in the other direction. the coild stays cooler, the sound is heard as it is sappsed to be heard and is slightly louder (i say only slightly because total wattage is total wattage. the distorted wattage will be louder than the clean wattage but not as loud beause Amp 'Y' will reach greater excursions).

ok first of all, you have senario with two amps that produce different power. i said amps that produce the same power........

secondly, i don't believe you thought i meant clipped signal=non clipped signal at the same wattage. thats quite possibly the worst logic i've ever heard/read.......

if a jbl amp puts out 1350 watts @2ohms, and a jl amps puts out the same, do you really think you'd be able to tell the difference? all other condistions being equal of course

they are rated to the same wattage...
but amp 'X' cant produce a proper signal at its rated wattage.

however if you would like to play thoes games....

THD% rating plays a large part in sound. though many woofers roll off before the harmonics registered frequincy can be played loudly, you are still wasteing valuable excursion and power with the woofer trying to produce frequincuies higher than they are ment to be played.

they are rated to the same wattage...
but amp 'X' cant produce a proper signal at its rated wattage.

however if you would like to play thoes games....

THD% rating plays a large part in sound. though many woofers roll off before the harmonics registered frequincy can be played loudly, you are still wasteing valuable excursion and power with the woofer trying to produce frequincuies higher than they are ment to be played.

ok, so you are just assuming that you need 700$ to get an amp that produces a clean signal at its rated power. i disagree. again, do you really think that you would be able to tell the difference between a jbl amp and a jl amp?

who said anything about JL. last i checked you could get a nine.1 for less than $400.

Hifonics makes some good amps

so does Pheonix Gold.

USA amps

and TruTech (though a tad more expensive. probably best bang for buck on the higher end amps).

why the hell are you agrueing with me? i still don't understand what you don't agree with me on.....i just threw in jl as a widely known high end amp.

I've read about 50 threads so far in this section of AF and every thread you post in, you argue with someone and try and push JL or JBL onto everyone. You never support higher end products, you just advertise for JL and JBL over and over or some other cost efficient product that probably won't live up to its specs on paper.

All you're doing is poluting my thread which I'm trying to get help through. Instead, you converted some really good help into a total wasteful arguement.

Now, if I can ask again, maybe someone will read it before Loismustdie spams it back a page. I need to get some sort of rough design for a ported box for the XXX15. I have 16cf in my trunk. How big should the box be? Are there other details I need to be worried about when constructing a ported box for a single 15 as big as the XXX? My amplifier of choice will be the Cadence ZRS-8.

All you're doing is poluting my thread which I'm trying to get help through. Instead, you converted some really good help into a total wasteful arguement.

Haha you're new here, be prepared for big arguments and your questions getting sidetracked, it happens a lot.

All you're doing is poluting my thread which I'm trying to get help through. Instead, you converted some really good help into a total wasteful arguement.

Haha you're new here, be prepared for big arguments and your questions getting sidetracked, it happens a lot.

I'm not new here. I've been on these boards for a year and a 1/2. I've posted in boards online for about 7 years now and believe me, I know what happens to good intentioned threads :). I'm just getting pissed off at Loismustdie because he keeps driving this thread into the ground and I really need this help.

I've read about 50 threads so far in this section of AF and every thread you post in, you argue with someone and try and push JL or JBL onto everyone. You never support higher end products, you just advertise for JL and JBL over and over or some other cost efficient product that probably won't live up to its specs on paper.

All you're doing is poluting my thread which I'm trying to get help through. Instead, you converted some really good help into a total wasteful arguement.

Now, if I can ask again, maybe someone will read it before Loismustdie spams it back a page. I need to get some sort of rough design for a ported box for the XXX15. I have 16cf in my trunk. How big should the box be? Are there other details I need to be worried about when constructing a ported box for a single 15 as big as the XXX? My amplifier of choice will be the Cadence ZRS-8.

The cadence is a great amp and the xxx15 is a great sub you'll be happy with those coices....as far as a box I would give it around 4 cubes and tune it to 28 or 30 hz. If you want to go a little more for spl and lack some of the low-low's then do 35 hz as your tuning. As far as exact deminsions I can't do until i know height width and depth of what will fit in your tunk. Also make sure not only that it will fit, but that YOU CAN GET IT THROUGH THE OPENING. I've seen people make boxes a lot that will fit if it gets in there but it won't go in.

Thanks bumping. I think that's about exactly what sr20 told me to do as far as size and tuning. I'll have to go into my trunk and take measurements myself, and that won't be until Sunday or Monday, but I'll have them. I really appreciate all of this help.

Okay....btw where are you located?......any q's hit me up on AIM s/n is RYDEme N mySTANG.

Okay....btw where are you located?......any q's hit me up on AIM s/n is RYDEme N mySTANG.

honestly dude, chill the fuck out, its not like i'm preventing other people from posting. actually, i don't like jl that much at all, i think they're overpriced. i also happen to enjoy high-end products, i just happen to think its a waste to spend an extra 300$ on an amp that won't make a difference in the way the subs sound, obviously sr20 thinks it will make a difference because he heard on jumping from an avionixx, i personally think that jbl makes a better amp, and have heard the jbl 1200.1 and let me tell ya, i haven't heard its equal when it comes to sound quality and raw power for the money. i think the cadence is a very very nice amp, but just too damn expensive. i would reccomend expensive high end amps for speakers, just not subs. i like high quality speakers and subs, and also high quality head-units. i started no arguement, read back, you will see that someone else disagreed with me and i simply posted a response.

Why the hell are u quoting me?

no one knows. show me the chepaest new factory warrantied JBL 1200.1 and bench test results and if its neat the nine.1 and is chepaer than the nine.1 i will bow odwn and lick your toes.... :worshippy

doooood thats nasty ewww dont say thaat shit man............... ok well im out gluck with ur system man let us kno if u got n e mroe q's fryman quit fuggin arguin dude why u always gotta fight man???/ wtf just shut up dood

To Loismustdie, btw, Family Guy is awesome and so is ATHF. But anyways, from my outlook on this thread, the first post you made turned this thread around. I'm not getting out of hand about it, I just wanted some quality help, which I feel I am receiving from Fryman and sr20 along with a few others, but I'm failing to get anything else out of this thread and I do not want to start a new one on the same thing.

I thank you for your input a lot, but I think the amp makes a huge difference in the sound of a subwoofer and speakers.

Why the hell are u quoting me?

yeah dude, i don't know, my bad, i just posted it in a hurry and accidently pressed that quote button....

I thank you for your input a lot, but I think the amp makes a huge difference in the sound of a subwoofer and speakers.


ok, if you think that spendind an extra 500$ is gonna make your sub sound 500$ better, then thats fine with me, i just happen to disagree. the only reason i posted what i posted was so that you wouldn't spend the extra cash, and, IMO, waste your money.....get whatever you want man.

LATERDAY SAINTS!! the nine.1 cost LESS than your JBL amps....

LATERDAY SAINTS!! the nine.1 cost LESS than your JBL amps....

http://www.edesignaudio.com/edamps.htm

nine.1- 315$

http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP12001Z

jbl 1200.1-200$

wtf?

the JBL up there is renewed, but not actually new.

nonetheless, you can get a brand new JBL for ~250.

i had the 600.1 before i had my dei 1100d. nice amp, just didn't like the xover. Now i'm sorry that i ever sold that dei (1999 model)

List Price on JBL: $550
Car Domain Regular Price: $499 not currently in stock

nINE.1 List Price: $450
nINE.1 Regular Price: $315 shipped stocked and same day shipping.

you get your JBL in 1-2weeks if your luckey

you get your nINE.1 in 3-5 business days depending on where you live.

im still leaning towards the nINE.1....