WRX or RSX type S ???

Im not a "Rice" fan in any shape or form but the rsx has a nice body style but with no torque and not getting peak power till 7400 thats a good way to blow your engine.

Im not just talking about my ass either I work for meineke and my next door neighbor has a shop next to me as well that is Bosco Lowe's Racing enterprise and I help there a lot as well and there its drag and NASCAR cars, well just bc he used to race in NASCAR.

But the wrx may not be as pretty, it will still turn some tail and with low end power and short gearing 0-60 it is untouchable to a rsx or any other "Rice" car except for maybe the NSX but thats another storyr.

My pick would have to be the wrx.

WRX

Originally posted by aliki1027
Im not a "Rice" fan in any shape or form but the rsx has a nice body style but with no torque and not getting peak power till 7400 thats a good way to blow your engine.

how are either of these cars rice???? The RSX use's reinforced cylinder walls to withstand high cr. its all in lift technology. A long stroke allows the engine to produce more torque right? What most don't know is that there is a drawback to a long stroke, b/c the piston must travel a longer distance, there is a physical limit to how many RPM the engine can achieve. meanwhile the RSX with a large bore and short stroke will produce less overall torque, but will reach much higher revolutions per minute, and gain more horsepower utilizing less displacement.

WRX

Originally posted by ldelaysionl


for the same price??? heres a little info for ya

RSX MSRP: 23,650
WRX MSRP: 23,995

i guess youre gonna get a turbo kit for $345?



looks is an opinion, i dont think the wrx looks great, but the rsx is ass ugly to me. that just depends on who u ask.

more mods? the subaru ej20 has been around for a number of years, $1000 will have u at 300+hp easily. the honda k20c is new, and the aftermarket is just developing, $1000 will barely gain u 20 hp. plus with the rsx's high compression, a turbo kit may not be such a good idea unless u fully build the block up, which means $$$. wrx on the other hand, 8.0:1, plenty of room to play.


you said it all. WRX all the way

definately the wrx for performance. it will smoke the s*** out of the rsx. but the acura has a better looking style .:D

I Iike honda/acura, but I would be stupid if i said RSX. I was totally dissapointed with the RSX's performance numbers. 200hp and my 125hp civic can take it in the straights. And I'm sure that I'd take it in the corners too, since I SCCA; thus my suspension isn't exactly stock.

On the other end of the poll, the WRX amazed me at how well it performed for nearly the same price?

WRX

I prefer WRX and have plan to buy if everything goes well ... :)

Originally posted by hybridsol

how are either of these cars rice???? The RSX use's reinforced cylinder walls to withstand high cr. its all in lift technology. A long stroke allows the engine to produce more torque right? What most don't know is that there is a drawback to a long stroke, b/c the piston must travel a longer distance, there is a physical limit to how many RPM the engine can achieve. meanwhile the RSX with a large bore and short stroke will produce less overall torque, but will reach much higher revolutions per minute, and gain more horsepower utilizing less displacement.

Kinda OT, But how would you explain the SR series engine? It has a relatively high redline and it also puts out a large amount of torque (per engine displacement). I think it is possible to have the best of both worlds, it is emmisions that hampers...


I would probably take the RSX. It has a higher resell value.....

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens


Kinda OT, But how would you explain the SR series engine? It has a relatively high redline and it also puts out a large amount of torque (per engine displacement). I think it is possible to have the best of both worlds, it is emmisions that hampers...


I would probably take the RSX. It has a higher resell value.....
correct me if I'm wrong but don't all the sr's redline at like 6400? while the rsx is at 7900? Also the RSX internals do not have to be reworked when uping redline. No disrespect to nissan, most of there motor's operate using a higher redline as well, but nothing as extreme as honda in this case. I just don't see how thats a good comparison. No offense.:)

the S13 SR20DET has a 7500 redline (as high as a prelude and GS-R)due to its head design. the rest of the later ones are around 7000 (still high for a turbo car)

if i am not mistaken the sr20de has a 7300 or 7400 rpm redline. granted it isn't as high as the honda's but it is high nonetheless...


6400 (or around there) is usually our hp peak...

and to change the redline is an ecu upgrade (most if not all the time)...

we have pretty impressive engines.

ok I did some research and I see that the SR's do have a high redline, but the S 13 would be produceing alot more hp if it was using the same standards as honda (with a turbo that size should be produceing a bit more), while lacking in torque (rather compensating). Still to a degree this motor and the rest of the SR's seem to operate under the same principal as honda.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron
ok I did some research and I see that the SR's do have a high redline, but the S 13 would be produceing alot more hp if it was using the same standards as honda (with a turbo that size should be produceing a bit more), while lacking in torque (rather compensating). Still to a degree this motor and the rest of the SR's seem to operate under the same principal as honda.


Idea!! (MORE LIKE SACRILAGE): Take a ITR and put an SR20DET in it... put about 450 horses through it... see how long it takes for everyone to not want to mess with you...



how much does a b18 weigh?

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens


Kinda OT, But how would you explain the SR series engine? It has a relatively high redline and it also puts out a large amount of torque (per engine displacement). I think it is possible to have the best of both worlds, it is emmisions that hampers...


I would probably take the RSX. It has a higher resell value..... You can have a high RPM and still lack high end. Ok let me explain, a shorter rod is going to increase the piston speed. A long rod is going to slow the piston speed, which can allow more air and fuel into the cylinder. The short-rod set up is going to pick up a lot more power on the top-end, due to the piston speed. The longer stroke will start running out of horsepower at a certain rpm, while torque runs out at lets say 5-6 grand, then horsepower takes over until it runs out. Ok short stroke is based on the same theory, but when horsepower takes over, it will continue to produce more power in the high range. So The RPM can be raised to say 9,5 but you will still be losing power in your high rpm. Let me add that I am a huge fan of nissan engineering, as many ppl on this forum know I own an SE Max. But for the most part SR's do lack torque take the sr20de, 143hp at 6400rpm and it redlines out at around 7000 rpm. Its maximum torque is 189Nm at 4800 rpm. It is possible to have a well rounded engine but in most cases it is better to go to one extreme or the other. Now the QR25 is an example of a nissan that was built on a torquer aproach. The QR25 was designed for power and torque through a wide powerband while reducing reciprocating weight and minimizing friction. lightweight, thin internals are used in to achieve this. Unfortunately, they aren't strong enough to handle high rpm running. At 6900 rpm, the QR's piston speed is the equivalent to about 8000 rpm on the SR.
Hope I helped out a little, and my apolagies for the late response I've been gone for quite some time. :)
PS- the b18's all weigh around 320lbs

Originally posted by hybridsol
You can have a high RPM and still lack high end. Ok let me explain, a shorter rod is going to increase the piston speed. A long rod is going to slow the piston speed, which can allow more air and fuel into the cylinder. The short-rod set up is going to pick up a lot more power on the top-end, due to the piston speed. The longer stroke will start running out of horsepower at a certain rpm, while torque runs out at lets say 5-6 grand, then horsepower takes over until it runs out. Ok short stroke is based on the same theory, but when horsepower takes over, it will continue to produce more power in the high range. So The RPM can be raised to say 9,5 but you will still be losing power in your high rpm. Let me add that I am a huge fan of nissan engineering, as many ppl on this forum know I own an SE Max. But for the most part SR's do lack torque take the sr20de, 143hp at 6400rpm and it redlines out at around 7000 rpm. Its maximum torque is 189Nm at 4800 rpm. It is possible to have a well rounded engine but in most cases it is better to go to one extreme or the other. Now the QR25 is an example of a nissan that was built on a torquer aproach. The QR25 was designed for power and torque through a wide powerband while reducing reciprocating weight and minimizing friction. lightweight, thin internals are used in to achieve this. Unfortunately, they aren't strong enough to handle high rpm running. At 6900 rpm, the QR's piston speed is the equivalent to about 8000 rpm on the SR.
Hope I helped out a little, and my apolagies for the late response I've been gone for quite some time. :)
PS- the b18's all weigh around 320lbs

The QR looks to be more built for N/A use than the SR does. The rotating bits in the SR are alot larger because the SR was designed for High Power applications. If I am not mistaken the vet variant has more power than the QR25 does. And lets not even look at the turbocharged version. Like I said before it is emissions that kill both Honda and Nissan. Honda has always had an impressive N/A offering, whereas Nissan has just figured out (for the most part) that you just can't slap a turbocharger on things and call it a day.

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens


The QR looks to be more built for N/A use than the SR does. The rotating bits in the SR are alot larger because the SR was designed for High Power applications. If I am not mistaken the vet variant has more power than the QR25 does. And lets not even look at the turbocharged version. Like I said before it is emissions that kill both Honda and Nissan. Honda has always had an impressive N/A offering, whereas Nissan has just figured out (for the most part) that you just can't slap a turbocharger on things and call it a day.
ok I'm not shure what the hell the "vet varient" is? But I assume your reffering to the SR yes you are correct it has a higher power output, because the engine was not designed for torque, its built on the same principal as honda is high rev. You said that the SR had a "large amount of torque per engine displacement" hybridsol showed it didint and it uses the same system as honda. When you add torque you lose HP. (read above)
Originally posted by lloyd_nickens

Idea!! (MORE LIKE SACRILAGE): Take a ITR and put an SR20DET in it... put about 450 horses through it... see how long it takes for everyone to not want to mess with you...

the sr20det without a T25 is not going to produce the 195hp the b18c5 (stock ITR motor will) BTW - this is the same motor hybridsol has laying in his engine bay and with a much smaller turbo he lays 355hp. My turbo's a bit bigger, and i'm only using a b18c1 motor and he can't touch me in his del sol. No offense CJ.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

the sr20det without a T25 is not going to produce the 195hp the b18c5 (stock ITR motor will) BTW - this is the same motor hybridsol has laying in his engine bay and with a much smaller turbo he lays 355hp. My turbo's a bit bigger, and i'm only using a b18c1 motor and he can't touch me in his del sol. No offense CJ.

355 hp to the ground?

how much r u layin down to the ground? if u dont mind my askin . . . :licker:

Originally posted by BlOOe46


355 hp to the ground?

how much r u layin down to the ground? if u dont mind my askin . . . :licker:
355hp @270lbs is what hybridsol's car was dyno'd at.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

the sr20det without a T25 is not going to produce the 195hp the b18c5 (stock ITR motor will) BTW - this is the same motor hybridsol has laying in his engine bay and with a much smaller turbo he lays 355hp. My turbo's a bit bigger, and i'm only using a b18c1 motor and he can't touch me in his del sol. No offense CJ.

uh a stock det (sr20det) produces about 205-210 hp at the flywheel and 200 pound/feet of torque. a ve/vet is the variable timing version of the sr20. the ve puts out the same amount of hp as the det but not as much torque. and the vet puts out IIRC about 250+ hp but not sure on torque.

and to get 355 hp just drop in a T3/4 hybrid and turn the boost knob up (not really but you get the point)

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens


uh a stock det (sr20det) produces about 205-210 hp at the flywheel and 200 pound/feet of torque. a ve/vet is the variable timing version of the sr20. the ve puts out the same amount of hp as the det but not as much torque. and the vet puts out IIRC about 250+ hp but not sure on torque.

and to get 355 hp just drop in a T3/4 hybrid and turn the boost knob up (not really but you get the point)
.......did you even read what I typed? Tell me genius, what is the size of the turbo on the sr20det? I assume were talking about the S15 Silvia Spec-R (and by the way its VVT not vet) 2.0l VVT DOHC I-4 that car is equipped with a T-28 the Spec-S S15 Silvia (the non-turbo version) has 163hp..... And the S15 has 247hp. The S13 Silvia has 202 hp with a T25. Now the Type R Integra has 195 hp non-turbo, put a t25 on that motor and see if the number's match up. By the way VVT is a copy of VTEC.

its a T-3 and his car is heavily worked, slightly more complicated than just dropping in a turbo and turning up the boost.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

355hp @270lbs is what hybridsol's car was dyno'd at.

lol
i asked what u were dynoing

or is that a secret? :p

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

.......did you even read what I typed? Tell me genius, what is the size of the turbo on the sr20det? I assume were talking about the S15 Silvia Spec-R (and by the way its VVT not vet) 2.0l VVT DOHC I-4 that car is equipped with a T-28 the Spec-S S15 Silvia (the non-turbo version) has 163hp..... And the S15 has 247hp. The S13 Silvia has 202 hp with a T25. Now the Type R Integra has 195 hp non-turbo, put a t25 on that motor and see if the number's match up. By the way VVT is a copy of VTEC.

its a T-3 and his car is heavily worked, slightly more complicated than just dropping in a turbo and turning up the boost.

http://www.freshalloy.com/cars/nissan/nissan_engines.html <--Got my info from there...

oh my bad, i did misread what you wrote. but then it wouldn't be called a det if it didn't have the turbo now would it? I am not trying to say one manufacturer is better than the other I am just saying that both honda and nissan are good at their respective fields (honda: n/a nissan: turbo). And the technology is called VVL, the engine designation is SR20VET...

The link I just posted should be sufficient in information for all the engine types in the nissan family.

I know that dropping in a T3 is a lil harder than I made it out to be... but I have read it to be easier to do for the SR than it is for SOME honda engines (or at least that is how I interpret my reading...)

So how much power would a bone stock ITR motor put out with a T25 added to it? And this is without any other work done to the engine... or is it not possible?

My knowledge on Honda engines isn't as deep as you guy's but I would like to learn...

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens


http://www.freshalloy.com/cars/nissan/nissan_engines.html <--Got my info from there...

oh my bad, i did misread what you wrote. but then it wouldn't be called a det if it didn't have the turbo now would it? I am not trying to say one manufacturer is better than the other I am just saying that both honda and nissan are good at their respective fields (honda: n/a nissan: turbo). And the technology is called VVL, the engine designation is SR20VET...

So how much power would a bone stock ITR motor put out with a T25 added to it? And this is without any other work done to the engine... or is it not possible?

My knowledge on Honda engines isn't as deep as you guy's but I would like to learn...
.....the sr20vet is a nissan suv in japan called the x-trail, and I'm told from a knowledgeable sorsce that nissan's valve timing control sys. is designated VTC on the turbocharged silvia or the sr20det, but your right they do use vvl on the x-trail. I'm not saying one manufacturer is better than the other either, Nissan and honda I would think are in somewhat of the same catagory.

you would have to do internal work with a turbo that size (actually most turbo's) SR20DET's come ready to handle a tubro due to the fact they are equipped with one. As for the power output...... good question It would depend upon the boost among other things.... I'll try to figure out a comparison.

sweet...


yeah i did find out that the rwd sr20's have vtc while the fwd sr20's have vvl. the x-trail is primarily fwd then awd....


too bad it's engine is too new/ too expensive cause i'd like one....