no more AC ??

hi,

i noticed that on my PA SC 92 that the AC compressor doesn't seem to work.. i know its below 32 degrees here .. i set it at the minimum and put it at AUTO or DEFOG mode and nothing happens :(

i checked the ac codes and none come up.. its at zero

is it low on gas or is normal to not work at these temperature ?

err should i get it refill ? so i can use it a bit in winter and not let the compressor rust coze it wont be working for 7-8 months?


deadring

If it needs refilling go ahead and do it. doesn't hurt anything, its better than keeping it not running at all.

well im gonna go to a AC shop friday and check it out...i just hope the leak is not something cotly :(

if it ain't got no gas then theres a hole right? i heard a few times,that sometimes, with age, the seal get smaller with the colder climats and the gas leaks out.. and by spring, you put some gas back and it will work all summer....i find it not hard to believe but rare.. i got a friend who has a cherokee that does that.

hop emine is fixable with little cost.. although i know that playing with AC cost alot.. to get a R134a to begin with.. if it hasn't been done fo course ..will know when i get there. :)

deadring

the gas evaportaes after a while from small leaks that are normal and what not, don't have them tell you that you need a complete new system, take the old stuff out, refill it with 134a and the proper oil and you will be fine.

ok,

heres the story, it cost 100$ CDN to get to this result, nothing.

i got the car in to a AC shop , they tested the system with nitrogen @ 300 PSI for 10 minutes and it didnt have a leak..anyway didn't SEEM to have one...then they retrofitted the valves for R134a. and then vacuumed the system and got some R134 in it.. unplugged the battery (which by the way got my interior lights going hay wire at night by it self, the joys of having a body controler and assortedf eletronics in a car thats 12 years old) to reset the AC and the compressor was turning.. i had cold icy AC ..payed the guy, got the car out, did and a mile , and then .. no more AC...but this time they have a florescent oil in it... so we can trace the leak.


now they arte 2 things bugging me,
1- the mecanic was in a urge to finish the job and go home, it was fridfday and it was 4 pm.. thats not problem...he is payed till 5 and should do a good job till 5.. i know i do. what bugs me is that he broke a part of the old valve in the hole while removing it and suposeldy got it out afterward.. but i wasn't far from the car and i didn't see it do it.. which could mean the broken piece might be doing trouble.. maybe the broken piece keeps the new valve which was installed anyway over it, open a little and got the gas out.. i can't tewl since when they DO test it, they go hoses over the 2 valves in question and by that, since they are PUTTING pressure in the system theres no way the hose will leak.. but when they remove the testing hoses, thats another story.

2- they wanted to change so aluminum container, sorry i dont know the name but its under the hood.. i said no, we'll try it out like this first. the car already cost me 300$ for a wheel bearing and an exaust ( the joys of having a car that never seen winter..this applies for the AC and the exaust) and it would add another 100 so.. it was enough.

3- the guy told me that it might leak by the compressor seals when it will rotate, so at that point i might need a new compressor...duno how it cost but if it's like the retro-fit kit and the gas, it won't be 20$...


one thing is sure, he wrote me a waranty till may for the gas.. so i wont have to pay for the Re-inspection nor the gas..atleast theres that.

any suggestion or question of how do i deal with this?

deadring

Go to another shop, I would check your ECM too.. you seem to have alot of electrical issues..

Hi deadring,I found this - hope it helps.I have the same "problem on my Park - no AC on winter temperatures.I found this on www.4s.com/techtips

Could this be the issue on our cars (Safety switch interupts on lower temperatures)?Works in the Winter

It's important to remember that the A/C system works in the winter months just as it does the rest of the year. However, the compressor is very susceptible to premature failure in the winter. When the driver selects defrost mode, the A/C system is operated to remove moisture from the incoming air to help keep the windshield clear. If the A/C system is not fully charged and 100% functional, the compressor will fail due to improper lubrication. This offers a good selling point when your customer doesn't think he or she needs to service or repair their A/C system in the waning days of summer.

The system functions in cold weather but at much lower pressures. Even fully charged, the high side will only develop about 100 psi to 130 psi and the low side will generally operate at about 20 psi. When the A/C system is low on charge or not operating properly, the low side pressure can drop below 10 psi. System lubricant will not circulate with the refrigerant below 10 psi and will be left behind in the evaporator. The compressor will eventually fail from the lack of lubrication. Also, in cold weather, the compressor oil may become to thick and not properly lubricate the moving parts, which leads to compressor failure.

Some vehicles incorporate safety switches to prevent compressor operation in cold weather. A common addition to some models is an ambient temperature switch. This switch prevents compressor operation below 40° F. This is the best option, but is not incorporated into all systems. Other vehicles depend on a low side, pressure cycling switch to prevent compressor operation. However, this usually will not occur until the ambient temperature gets below 25° F. This can leave the compressor susceptible to failure. Then there are vehicles with an evaporator temperature sensor that cycles the compressor off when the evaporator gets cold. Unfortunately, if the system is low on charge or is malfunctioning, the evaporator will not get cold and the compressor will not cycle off. The final result is premature compressor failure.

By informing your customers about wintertime A/C operation, they may find an end of summer repair less costly than a compressor replacement in the spring.


ParkerD

parkavenuechrome: i worked out the bugs this weekend.. i found my lighting problem..it was the switch in the door opening button that was always in contact at 600 ohms when not pressed on and 100 ohms when pressed.. and varied from time to time depending of how fast i was pressing it...it is pretty messed up and i dont need that option working anyway.. so i uplugged it.. no more lighting.. the rest is alright :)

ParkerD : for what you said it sound rather logical to me.. it was 5 degrees F outside when i got the car outo of the AC shop.. and it was working fine for about 1000 feet.. but it worked nice for 5- 10 minutes in the shop at 70 degrees ... coincidence?

im not sure.. anyway, what im gonna do is this.. contact the shop who garantied the job till may 2005 ( hehehe my call) rather than just 3 months. and get them to re-inspect it and check for leaks.. but i wont buy anything of their crap telling me that the compressor is screwed coze of the seals in it are busted and let out the gas when it rotates.. he told me that one already that it MIGHT be that.. yeah right.. we'll see.. anyways, ill get them to look at it and check if they see any leaks.. and try it in the heat of the shop, if they dont find anything , ill take it home to my little garage and heat it up and reset the car and make work.

but i must say that the story you got here sounds alot like mine..

hey ParkerD, does your AC stop working in the cold and comes back by it self in the summer?


fr0st

hi deadring,

I hope you know i am an PA driver (1993) from Germany because of my english...

Today i will try to fool the ambient temperature sensor in front of the radiator frame,its this two wire resistor in a black plastic case.I think the PCM reads the value of the outside temperature there and shutdown the AC below 40F.
I can't find any information about this on Chiltons or other aftermarket manuals.
I put an resistor at the harness that has an value for approx.50-60F,then the AC has to work (compressor engaging).
-I hope so..I will report to you.
After the retrofit of my AC in July this year,it works very fine,no leaks,no compressor problems.But when I remember me,i believe the AC never worked on 40 F and below.
I want change that.I wish to remove humidity also in winter.

ParkerD

i found additional information on a google discussion:

I am looking into buying a 92 Buick Regal. The car is in good over all
shape. My only concern is with the air conditioner. It has been my expriance
with my other cars that when you turn the front defrost on the air condition
compresser engages and the rad fans turn on. This would at least prove that
the compresser works and the system has pressure. When I put the defrost or
A/C on in this car nothing happened.
Now according to most used car salesmen there is no way to check the air
conditioner in the winter. My thinking is that if the compresser doesn't
engage and run when the defrost or A/C is turned on then the A/C is not
working.
Is this true? Or am I wrong? Maybe there is another way of testing the A/C.

Thanks for your help! Len


Answer :

I think you are both right. GMs I've worked on all had an ambient temperature
sensor which kept the A/C from working at temperatures about 40 F. or below. In
warmer temperatures you observations are correct.

Can you put the car in a heated garage for a couple hours? That could at least
confirm that at 50 or 60 degrees everything works. Or doesn't!

Deadring,i think that the problem is solved !!!
Anyway,i try to change this..

ParkerD

guten tag ParkerD

im gonna put it in the garage this weekend and check it out ...or for a real kick, i could use a blow torch and heat the sensor.. not too much but enough to make it think it's 80 degrees outside heheheh

as for your english, its alright, as much as mine i must say :) im french canadian so my english ist gut nitch ( had a german course in school hehehe):)

parkavenuechrome, what do you think about this theory of the AC not functionning in lower tempartures?


anybody else can confirm this?

deadring

guten tag ParkerD

im gonna put it in the garage this weekend and check it out ...or for a real kick, i could use a blow torch and heat the sensor.. not too much but enough to make it think it's 80 degrees outside heheheh

as for your english, its alright, as much as mine i must say :) im french canadian so my english ist gut nitch ( had a german course in school hehehe):)

parkavenuechrome, what do you think about this theory of the AC not functionning in lower tempartures?


anybody else can confirm this?

deadring

basically Above 32 degrees F the AC will come on to remove the moisture in the air. Below that, Any moisture in the air will be frozen. Therefore the AC is not needed and is shut off by the ECM. Running the AC below those temp will harm the compress due to lubrication. SO yes he is correct. if you need to run it or want to, you can heat the element from a distance, but make sure the car is fully up to tempurate and heated up nicely so that the compressor is acually warm and the oil is thinned. But yea its correct. Mine didn't go on under 32 degrees last year, of course mine isn't seeing winter anymore so its not an issue.

well i'll be...iv'e been screwed by an AC shop... i payed 100$ CDN to get this fixed.. surely the the shop woul dnot tell me about this.. and if ask about it they would say they didn't even knew about it...gees.. what would people do without forums like this one to informe the common mortal of problems with their vehicules and how to resolve them?

thanks alot guys, :) :)

deadring

Anytime buddy! Thats why you work on your car yourself and not brought to a shop... Saves you money and you know what is really being done.. Makes sense...

Hi deadring,

today we have 48 F here - and my AC/Compressor is working !

ParkerD

yeah it close to 32 that its stops working.. as parkavenue told me :)

Yep.. buick Features.. Its a good one though, saves the compressor..