Runs when it is cold

I have 1988 buick regal that runs great when it is cold and as soon as it starts to come up to temp it dies. I changed the module coilpack. mass airflow sensor, crank sensor, map sensor, cut off catlatic converter, put new plugs and wires on changed Iac sensor, computer, now I have the plume off and am changing the fuel regulator and fuel rail. I check the ohms on the injectors and there fine at 3.5. someone was also saying the egr valve. what else can it be????? does anyone know what is wrong with this car?. My brother said it could be a relay as it is acting like and electrical problem. Im at my witts end hopefully someone has had this problem before and knows how to resolve this issue. The reson for the egr valve replacment theroy is a soon as it goes into close loop it dies and smells like raw fuel. Any Ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Jeff

does it studenly die or does it spudder then die? when exally does it die? moving, idle, park, gear, WOT? or does it not matter?

does it studenly die or does it spudder then die? when exally does it die? moving, idle, park, gear, WOT? or does it not matter?


No it does not matter when it comes up to temp it just falls on its face. If you try to give it gas it just dies. I worked on it again tonite putting it all back together(had the plume off checking injectors) I have no idea what else it could be.

if it is a studden failure(like turning off a light switch) then most likey its a electrical problem of some sort. if it studders for a few second then dies, then look more to mechanical problems.

disconnect the electrial connector to the EGR solenoid(assuming its a vacuum style EGR) the solenoid is is connected inline of the vacuum line from the manifold to the EGR.

you may also want to check the O2 sensor for carbon crud build-up.

Yea it kind of starts pukeing then dies. I checked the egr tonite and it seams to be alright the diapham works and holds vacume. I have not changed the o2 sensor it is reading with the scanner and seems to function properly but that could still be the cause eh?

Also what about a relay????

drive it with the EGR solenoid and (now that i think about it) the CCPS solenoid and see if it die. considering what you done so far how much effort would it take to remove the O2 sensor? i doubt a bad relay, not to say its impossable, but i've never heard of anything slightly simular to that before.

test drive and reply with you results please.

what is a CCPS? and yes I will replace the 02 sensor next

carcoal caniser purge solenoid. same concept as the EGR solenoid. its attached to a vacuum line somewhere. if you can't find it tell me your engine size and i can tell you where it is.

just check the O2, don't change it unless you know its bad. you've blindly changed enough things at this point.

Well I worked on it again and it is still doing the same thing. I changed the purge solenoid and it just died when it came up to temp. The EGR valve is working correctly and Im at a total loss as to what it could be.

are the egr passages clogged?

no it is fine I have no clue at this point what to check

I would change your Coolant Temperature Sensor. They cost under $25 and any decent parts store should have one in stock. That will probably fix your problem. Yours is probably shorted out. As a result, the ECM thinks the engine is still cold and is delivering way too much fuel after the engine warms up.

I'm sorry to hear that you've invested so much with no results, but this should do the trick.

I hope this helps. :)

I have checked it with the scanner on and it seems to be working but Im gonna change it and see what happens. I will let you guys know the outcome and I truley appreciate everyones feedback. It has to be something lol!

NONONO i didn't say change i just said dissconnect. the EGR and CCPS solenoids only open when the car is in closed loop. disconnecting the electrical connectiors prevents them from opening. if the car works with them disconnected you know the problem is somewhere after them. this will give you a general clue where to look.

also, stupid idea i forgot earlier, try leaving the O2 disconnected so the car can't go into closed loop.

proper diagnostics is the key, as i think you can see by now blindly replacing pieces will only cost you money.

I did disconnect and it did the same thing as soon as it get to temp it falls on its face. Ruley73 said the coolant sensor could have a short. It registers with the scanner the temp so not sure if that is it. I already have bought one so I thought I would try it as when it does die you can smell raw fuel. The friend I have has a 2.8 that is being parted out so I have installed several parts insted of buying all of them. And I have a friend who owns a junk yard so my cost thank god have not been too extreme

The reading that you're seeing on the scanner is probably registered by the Temperature Switch (not the same as a coolant temp sensor). It is the same signal that your temp gauge/light receives. It is only the ECM that receives the reading of the coolant temp sensor. I'm glad to hear that you're not out all that much $$$. :)

I worked on it again tonite and changed the coolant temp sensor and I had the heat on in the garage and it would not start open the door and while cooling off seen the ground from the battery mount to the trans where the wiring harness connects was caroded so I changed that once the garage was cold the car started right up but as it got warm same ole thing just stalles and would start for a second then dies. Im running out of ideas here, I still need help. Seems I may have to put it on a machine to find out???.

what engine is this?

if the problem still occurs with the O2 disconnected, we know its more related to temp then loop mode.

i have heard of the crank sensor going bad only when warm, but after five minutes is insane. i remember some of the 3800 engine have two crank sensors, i don't know which ones. try - immeditily after the car stalls, disconnect the coil/coil packs. see if you have spark. or check the RPM/crank sensor reading with your scantool.(yes i saw that you replaced it before)

its the 2.8 and on the scanner before I replaced it it was at 28 when the motor was turned off!. I was not able to disconect the o2 sensor as you have to rock the engine forward to get to the plug. This is really getting old I do appreciate your input

1988 Regals only came with a 2.8L V6. Fuel Injected GM Vehicles don't have a separate EGR Solenoid. They use a Linear or Digital (depending on the vehicle) EGR system in which the EGR valve and Solenoid are within the same part. No 3800 (Vin C, L, or K) engine has two crankshaft sensors. It was the Vin M 3.1L (first used in late 1993 Olds Cutlass Supremes) engine that had two crank sensors.

One sensor you didn't mention was the Air Temp Sensor in your intake. You should be able to see that reading with the scanner and check that. Also, make sure you reset the ECM after you replace every part. In the W-bodies I know the battery is a pain to get at. You don't have to remove the negative battery terminal to do this. Simply remove the ECM fuse for about 15 seconds. It is in the fuse box under the hood in my '95 Regal. I think they had under the hood fuses in 1988 Regals, but I'm not 100% sure. Does your scanner show that any codes have been stored?I'm assuming not because you haven't mentioned any, but if so what are they? One last thing, does it take almost exactly the same amount of time to stall every time?

Ruley
There are no codes showing at all and no I did not unhook or pull fuse after replacing these parts thats a very good Idea and cost nothing I will do that first off. Also yes it does die at about the same
time unless it is warm from the garage being heated?? this is a good one!

where is the air charge temp sensor located on the intake maifold? for the 2.8??. I also pulled the fuse for the ECM (located in the glove compartment fuse box) and it did not work either.

The air charge temp sensor is located in your air intake hose between the throttlebody and the MAF sensor.

I wish it was I would change it. Im getting ready to drop it off at the dealer today hopefully they can figure it out. Thanks for all your help guys. I will post what the problem was providing they figure it out!

Dealer just called injectors 3 and 5 are bad. Im changing myself tonite hope this does it!.

Replaced no#3 and no#5 injectors and well all I can say is proper diagnostics is everything car runs great. Thank you for all your help guys