It starts in earnest...

Operation 'Phantom Fury' started today in earnest.

All my blessings go out to the young men and women fighting for...something. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/icons/icon9.gif

Whatever the justification, or unjustification for this 'war' may be for you, please wish them well, and may all come home healthy.

I wish them well and may they have a safe journey and hopefully they will be home soon.

Glad to see it start. It is high time to stop fiddle-farting around over there. They need to get done and get out!

As I understood it they were going after Saddam,because he had weapons that could harm America.When this turned out to be untrue, they were going after Saddam for oppressing all of his opponents.Now they have installed a puppet government, they are in their helping to suppress the opposition to said puppet government........

Good luck to the poor sods who actually have to fight this war.If people wanted them out of there so badly, they shouldn't have extended Bush's tenure.

Good luck to the poor sods who actually have to fight this war.If people wanted them out of there so badly, they shouldn't have extended Bush's tenure.


Bush's tenure has nothing to do with this. If Kerry won would they be coming home? I think not. Bush winning the election has nothing to do with the American people wanting their soliders home. No human being want people to get killed war or no war. Don't confuse my being a republican with me being a human. I wish no ill on any people except terrorists who kill innocent people.

Bush's tenure has nothing to do with this. If Kerry won would they be coming home?

Maybe not today, but certainly a lot sooner,and with fewer casualties.It's hypothetical now of course, unless you just got stuck at the front lines.

Maybe not today, but certainly a lot sooner,and with fewer casualties.It's hypothetical now of course, unless you just got stuck at the front lines.


How? By surrendering? Kerry NEVER said how he could do it any differently, and his actions prove he has no clue. He only fooled the very young, the idealists. That's why he's been sent back to the Massachusetts Kennedy afternoon-tea & crumpets-served-by-the-black-servants crowd.

52/48.

Not by surrendering but by not persisting to dig us deeper. Good luck to all our soldiers out there...

Wish the soldiers over there the best of luck

They're over there doing a damn tough job. Regardless of whether we agree or not, they're Americans and deserve our support and respect.

An argument could be made that Saddam was not in compliance with the surrender terms from the first gulf war, so that's why we went over there.

Pundits on the other side could say that the current Bush was showing his daddy he could do it. Now before anyone goes off on that comment, it was for illustration only.

It's a complex situation, from oil to human rights to free choice to you name it.

There are numerous reasons that Iraq is happening, and there are an awful lot of things that "We The People" are not and will not be privy to. It sucks that the government can't or won't tell the citizens it works for what they want to know. Whether the reason is security or concealment doesn't matter, they ain't telling.

I'd like the whole truth and so would alot of folks. But we're likely not going to get it; so for all those out there in Iraq, "Doing the Job", Godspeed and safe return.

ummm... how bout soldiers who kill innocent people.

I hope that they ALL come out of this alive... but most of all the civilians.

Regardless of whether we agree or not, they're Americans and deserve our support and respect.


i'm sorry but whether or not you agree. Being American is never going to be enough to deserve support, or especially respect!

Agreed TRD. There will be many (as always in a war) that get killed senselessly. And Americans do not necessarily deserve to be respected just for being Americans; it's who you are, not what you're called.

That said, I was trying to make the point that the majority of military people don't make policy, but are sent to implement it and have to do the best they can in the situation they find themselves in. Iraq is a sticky mess for sure, and there's alot of people over there that have had it thrust upon them.

that's true, and unfortunately i suspect many of the people on the ground in fallujah would not be from a demographic that would support this war in Iraq. (separating war on terror from war in Iraq, i think everyone supports the war on terror, just now people ask more questions)

I'm sure that many Iraqis see the US as a replacement dictator, not a liberating force. The US should set a date to get out, and then leave. Not mess around with all the "we're turning over the country to Iraq" crap that misleads people into thinking we're leaving, then stay.

I'm sure that many Iraqis see the US as a replacement dictator, not a liberating force.
Many might...MOST don't.
The US should set a date to get out, and then leave. Not mess around with all the "we're turning over the country to Iraq" crap that misleads people into thinking we're leaving, then stay.Idealy we would be out tomorrow or sooner. It just isn't that easy.

hmmm another mind reader....

without having been to iraq, let alone as an iraqi, or MOST iraqi's (now that would be a trick) how do you presume to know how they see things?


i do agree its not as easy as just leaving now though.

seems to me Georgie Boy (see i AM feeling nice today, i gave him BIG letters) went to open a can of "Whoop Ass" but the word was too big and he got a can of "Worms" instead!

Gladhatter, none of us have any way of knowing. I believe that fredjacksonsan is onto something but it's just that, a belief. No matter what the soldiers out there are not to blame, government(s) are. It would simply be cruel and wrong for someone to not wish them the best of luck in quick, safe, successful return.

My thought is that we've done what we went to do, remove a dictator and make a start on order in the country, so it's time to get out.

I've thought about an exit strategy, and it goes like this...Publish and broadcast a schedule throughout Iraq, that forces will start pulling out first from northern cities then moving southward in order to keep supply lines open.

The reason for the published list is this, which will also be well publicized: Each city will be on a 30 day countdown. The schedule will stop (or start over) each time there is a terrorist attack inside Iraq. That way the Iraqi people have a say in how long the US stays there. More terrorist attacks? US stays longer. No terrorist attacks for 30 days? The calendar moves forward again and the withdrawal continues. It's simple, basic, and gives the Iraqi people the ability to speak for themselves without a formal vote. Terrorist attacks in country means the withdrawal of US forces is delayed. If they want us out, they will cease attacking and terrorizing.

Just a thought.

holy shit, that might be the best thing i've read on these boards

the only thing is fred that could be seen as blackmail.

from murcos BBC thing 41% of Iraqi's feel humiliated already.

sounds like a pretty good plan though... although the withdraw south and out thing sounds similar to Vietnam.... bugger.

the other thing is, aparently many of these people are from out of Iraq, they have gone there to kill americans and it's a lot easier outside america, plus the impact on the US of a prolonged occupation and resulting world disfavour. They may well prefer to keep the US IN Iraq. Just a thought.

I don't know about blackmail. I think it could be empowering for the Iraqi people to take control. Give them a schedule (and my times aren't right, I have no idea how long the actual withdrawal would take) of 80 days or something, at which all US and coalition forces would be out of the country. Give them the list of cities and the dates planned for those cities. Let them know that the countdown for withdrawal will be extended for 30 days if there's an attack (terrorist or not).

I can see your point, if people want to kill US people what better arena to do so. It's a sick world, when people have their priorities so far out of whack that they'll leave home and contribute to the instability of a foreign country just to kill someone they've never met and whose government they hate.

ahhh now thats a good question... what better arena... i can think of a couple.

Afghanistan... Osama Bin Laden and others managed to hold off (with US weapons and money) the Russian incursion. The mountainous terrain favours light vehicles and foot rather than heavy tanks. It also allows great opportunity for ambush.

perhaps better though would be ...
Afica.. particularly the congo/ivory coast area. Terrain again isn't good for big tanks etc... maybe not even Hummers. i havent been there but the congo region has a lot forest, if this was where the OIL is then it will add a whole vietnam jungle aspect to the mix. wrecking visibility, and i don't think that agent orange would be a good option this time. Did i mention the OIL, so this might be the next field of play.

I don't know about the blackmail thing either, just looking at the possibilities, perhaps just in case they could be nice and tell them where they are going to invade next on the withdrawal schedule... that way the out of town crowd won't feel that they will miss the show and Iraq can be left alone?

Well it would never happen with Bush in control. One thing though say as soon as our troops are almost out, huge ambush... you never know. It sounds good on paper tho.

mmmm.. it's pretty hard to get an ambush on a retreating enemy though, particularly a staggerred retreat, and especially on anenemy that"controls" the area where you plan on setting your ambush... and especially an enemy with so many toys... sattelites and UAV's etc.