Experienced Integra Owners/Tuners ONLY Please.

Hey guys,
I'm going to say "sorry for coming across as a dick" right now before I say another word.

Here's the background...
I live in Japan, and have owned two cars already. A Mitsubishi Evo GSR and an R32 Skyline GT-R. Check my gallery for pictures. Since my wife is pregnant and it's time to be a little more frugal with my cash. The GT-R is up for sale and I'm getting a '94 Integra SiR. (Same as the U.S. GSR).

Here's the deal. I've been working on cars for the last 15 years (I'm 30 years old) and have been racing (track racing) off and on for 16. Mostly domestics until I moved here to Japan a year ago. I have been working quite intensively on turbo cars out here for the last year and now that I'm getting a Honda I'll admit I'm a little lost as to what to do with it.

I realize that the car will never be a GT-R or Evo and I don't expect the car ever to perform like either but having a gut-less car doesn't sit well with me so I'm a bit curious to see what I can squeeze out of it. Turbo and supercharger are out of the question since I have JCI to deal with out here but NO2 is a last resort possibility.

The purpose of this post is to ask other Integra owners for their experience in tapping the potential of the B18C and the results that they have seen. Basically I want to know so I can set a realistic expectation of the motor. Also, getting information out here is difficult since I don't speak Japanese very well and even if I did, hardly anyone bothers with Hondas out here. It's mostly Nissans and Toyotas ruling the scene here.

Now, if you are an "Internet Tuner" don't bother responding... I don't want to have to sift through your drivel to find intelligent responses. Also, I don't want to hear how much power your "friend" (real or imaginary), brother, dad, aunt, uncle, or great grandmother got out of their car. If you don't own the car and didn't do the work yourself, don't bother responding. I don't want to hear any "I've read about a 900hp, all motor [insert car here] on the internet" stories either. Most of those are a complete waste of my time.

I've heard that there is some real talent in the Honda forums and some very knowledgeable people as well from some of the mods on AF. I look forward to talking with you guys in the future and if anyone has any questions about the Street Scene here in Japan, I will be more than happy to answer questions.

Thanks in advance,
Scott

Honostly if you aren't going to go turbo, then your best bet is to do the normal car stuff to it. Intake, header, you can take everything off and have it P+P ( port and polished ) get good pistons and all that good stuff. Obviously being a JDM car it has better stuff on it from the factory. But you can get the exhaust. And if you absolutely need to get the nitrous.

Now I am no expert on Japanese cars, and i doubt anyone on this forum is going to have first hand knowledge of a japanese car. Its all going to be what they read on the internet or in a book. So this is from what we would do to an American market car. From what i know of the American Integras, you could expect about 175 hp to the wheels, a little more if it's tweeked right.

ok Dj, read his post again. he has the jap version of the gsr. he has an Si R! stock he is already putting out 178@7600.

ok GTR2b, not sure how much you are willing to put into it? but the basics are intake, exhaust, and header. you can go a bit further and look into a 12lb flywheel, SAFC-2(air/fuel controller), cams, cam gears, pulley's, port polish, intake manifold, and throttle body.
now if your going to do the basics, you should free up about 15 horses. the rest of the stuff varies on what direction you plan on taking. these cars have so many directions to take and so many aftermarket parts available.

now those are the first places i would start. now this should put you at around 250hp to the crank with all the above listed. might not sound like much to you. but you have to think that this car started out at 180hp.
and you could do something a bit different and go for a b20 bottom. and keep the head. give you that much more torque.

Thanks integralover,
One of my biggest complaints about my Evo was that it's near impossible to find aftermarket products for that Evo I-III.

Parts for the Skyline were easy and there are so many around here finding info on what works and what doesn't wasn't hard either. However, B18C parts practically grow on trees around here and there's few people to talk to about them.

As long as 250hp is not an unreasonable expection for the car (all motor) then I think I'll be fairly happy with it until I can afford to buy another GT-R. I keep having to remind myself that the car weighs nearly 1000lbs. less than a GT-R so 400hp is not really necessary in it.

As soon as the car shows up I'll post some pics of it and keep you all informed on the "minor" buildup I'm doing with it.

ok Dj, read his post again. he has the jap version of the gsr. he has an Si R! stock he is already putting out 178@7600.

LOL...sorry, like i said the first hand knowledge of Jap cars isn't gonna be near what i have on American cars. I apolagize if I confused anyone or came off as dumb. Everyone is allowed one screw up.

I know there are plenty of ITR's (Integra Type R's) around Japan, as have lots of them come into NZ from Japan second hand, so one thing you could do is get the Camshafts, Exhaust extractors, pistons and any other Type R-exclusive bits from anywhere that sells them (If I want them, I simply would go to Honda New Zealand, but I'm not sure where to get them in Japan).

I have an old issue of New Zealand Performance Car magazine laying about where all the Type R bits that Honda NZ offers were put into an Integra SiR, the results were awesome, I'll have to find the copy tomorrow, to make it better I think the job came to a total of NZ$2-3000, which is pretty reasonable.

Couple this with a Pod filter, cold air intake, a Port and Polish, lightened flywheel, some Skunk2 Cam Gears, a Mugen muffler (They're awesome- Sound travels through them twice, so they are relatively quiet), a bored throttle body and a 2.5" Mandrel-bend exhaust and you would have a pretty damn fun little car on your hands.


In New Zealand it's pretty standard-fare to see an Si-R in that level of tune and these are the most common modifications done when starting out (The Honda modifying scene, especially for JDM Honda's, is pretty broad over here).


This is by no means first hand experience, but more like second hand experience, just stuff that mates who have SiR or VTiR (The NZ equivalent of the SiR) Tegs do to get a small bit more power out of thier cars and, I've seen it all done before and it all works. First hand experience or not, it should still be reasonably useful, as it's common knowledge amongst most Kiwi Integra modifiers/drivers.

Whether or not you take the advice is up to you.

He's not going to get 250hp on ITR internals! He will need to go aftermarket.

that is exactly what i said. you just can't magically get 250. i just listed some aftermarket work that he can do just short of f/i, spray, and digging deep into the engine and what he can do a resonable price. now he can do pistons, rods, valves and what not but, we all know those start getting expensive. especially for an Si R.

that is exactly what i said. you just can't magically get 250. i just listed some aftermarket work that he can do just short of f/i, spray, and digging deep into the engine and what he can do a resonable price. now he can do pistons, rods, valves and what not but, we all know those start getting expensive. especially for an Si R.
and that's the beauty part of swapping everything for both Civic and Integra Type R components, it doesn't cost a lot. NZ$4050 to be exact (About 3000 US$) This will get:
- ITR 4-1 extractors
- ITR Exhaust Cam
- CTR Inlet Cam
- ITR Inlet Valves
- Type R Valve Springs
- CTR Pistons (Which bring the Compression to a pretty decent 11.0:1)
- 5 Liters of FEO R 10W-30 Oil (Hondas reccomendation for high performance motors)
-Oh and you would probably throw in some Skunk2 Adjustable cam gears to that as well.

Now as I said, NZ Performance car did this EXACT thing to an SiR, before the Integra underwent these modifications it made 102 Kw (132 hp) at the wheels (With just an exhaust and K&N filter), after of the above was done, the car made an impressive 130 Kw (171 hp) at the wheels and that translates to about 220 flywheel hp.

Now, that would be a good thing to do to an Integra in the case of the thread starter, considering that he already has a Lancer GSR, which is a far better base for a powerful car than an Integra SiR, so basically if he wanted to tap a small bit of the SiR's potential without spending too much, then Type R components are a pretty effective measure. If he wanted to go further, then I really can't offer a hell of a lot in the way of advice, because my preferred route would always be Forced Induction (Basically due to the fact that there are no Emissions laws in NZ at the moment).

Unfortunately, I don't have the GSR anymore. It met it's untimely end at the race track when I massaged a wall a little too hard. That happened the same day that the pics in my Galery were taken of it. I really miss that car.

Although Type-R parts are readily available here the upgrade, aftermarket parts are even more available and the price difference is minimal.

Here's the reasoning behind keeping the motor NA. The whole point of getting this car was to save on operating costs. If I was interested in making this a turbo car or investing in a supercharger, I would simply keep my GT-R.

Given the weight of the car I figure that I'd have to squeeze around 230-250hp at the wheels before I would be able to sit down and be happy with the car from a performance standpoint. If I can't realistically hit those numbers then I'm thinking of simply making the car a nice cruiser and focusing more on styling and show. It's been a while since I have done a "show, no go" car so it might be fun to do again.

And I really appreciate the input from the Kiwi's. Next to Japan, you guys are the best source of info on JDM cars.

Even though ITR parts are good upgrades, they won't give you the numbers you want. You will need to go with one of the many aftermarket companies available for upgraded cams and valve train.

Keep in mind, a 230-250whp Integra won't be great as a daily driven car. You'll need stage 3 racing cams, high compresion pistons and some machine work. You have long road ahead of you, Good luck.

I really have to be honest with you, now don't get me wrong I love my car, but after owning a EVO and a GT-R you are never going to be happy with the torque output in the integra. Even hitting 230whp you will still have a drastically less amount of torque than the turbo cars. Just want to be frank about that before you decide to spend money. Yes you can make the car quick but you are not going to reach the TQ output of the GT-R or EVO without forced induction.

I know. And I won't ever expect the car to perform like either. It's just a different class of car altogether and no matter what I do to it, it's still a Honda Integra at the end of the day.

This car is bascially just something to toy around with until I can afford to drive a GT-R again.

Ahh I see, then the best route to go would be I/H/E to open up the flow alittle then the rest needs to be done all at the same time. Get some aftermarket cams, JUN would be nice, and port and polish the head, maybe even bore the block out to 83-84mm that will give you around 1920cc's or so roughly, then some higher compression pistons. What kind of gas is avaliable there and how expensive is it? You will need to run 92+ if it is available. What I would do is pick a set of cams then use a Dynamic C/R calculator to see what pistons you need to get, that way if you get a crazy cam you will be able to compensate for it with a little more C/R. If you need more help on that let me know.


***edit***
Sorry forgot to add the rest lol. You will be needing larger Ingectors along with either a V-AFC or Hondata. I would go with Hondata b/c it is much more fine tunable and you can do more with it as well. Cost is about the same between the two if you don't want the boost option on the Hondata.

and that's the beauty part of swapping everything for both Civic and Integra Type R components, it doesn't cost a lot. NZ$4050 to be exact (About 3000 US$) This will get:
- ITR 4-1 extractors
- ITR Exhaust Cam
- CTR Inlet Cam
- ITR Inlet Valves
- Type R Valve Springs
- CTR Pistons (Which bring the Compression to a pretty decent 11.0:1)
- 5 Liters of FEO R 10W-30 Oil (Hondas reccomendation for high performance motors)
-Oh and you would probably throw in some Skunk2 Adjustable cam gears to that as well.



The CTR pistons would bump him up to 12.3:1 C/R with the stock thickness head gasket.

The CTR pistons would bump him up to 12.3:1 C/R with the stock thickness head gasket.
Makes far more sense, NZPC were saying that they brought it up to 11.0 (Made no mention of a head gasket change, so I'm assuming it's at stock thickness), but I was skeptical (Thought it was too low for a Type R item). Thanks for the correction.

GTR2b- Sorry to hear about the GSR man, they really are awesome cars, I would get one, but insurance would kill me :(. I sometimes forget that you have the worlds best tuning shops on your back doorstep, so I think inevitably that it is indeed a good idea to go looking for something from them, most bits from reputable aftermarket companies are pretty damn expensive over here (Which makes Type R parts look rather attractive)