are all upper strut bars the same???
JuMBoBeaTS
02-22-2002, 07:28 PM
wasssup my honda (and non-honda) peoples... i was just wondering if all upper front strut bars the same (the one that goes in the engine bay... i tried to read the FAQ but it seemed like everyone called it different things)... i was in pepboys gettin wax and i saw one on the shelf in the store... it was relatively inexpensive... $40 for an APC brand one... i was wonderin if they are any good or should i keep searchin??? are they hard to install??? can anyone give me a site that has the installation instructions (if it has pictures... das even better) or post pics on how they did theirs... is there anything i need to know about strut bars before i install them?? thanx
shorthand
02-22-2002, 07:56 PM
The answer is essentially yes. Its just a hunk of metal. Mine was like $35 + shipping.
There are three classes of strut bars.
The first is just a bent metal tube.
The second is a billet type that is fairly tall (usually two "rails" connected by several cross members, but all in a billet).
The third is triangulated - that is it ties in to the firewall in addition to the suspension towers.
Depending on how much grip you're developing, you may be able to make use of 1,2, or 3. I get the distinct feeling that unless you're running race springs and hoosiers, 3 will not do any more than 2.
The only other thing separating them is weight (carbon fiber lighter than aluminum lighter than steel lighter than depleted uranium).
If you're still running stock doughnuts, its going to do you no good. What will help your handling much more is either springs or a rear ~19mm swaybar. The swaybar is also a hunk of metal (spring steel in this case), and the cheap suspension techniques is really just as good as the expensive DC Sports model.
Happy hunting
There are three classes of strut bars.
The first is just a bent metal tube.
The second is a billet type that is fairly tall (usually two "rails" connected by several cross members, but all in a billet).
The third is triangulated - that is it ties in to the firewall in addition to the suspension towers.
Depending on how much grip you're developing, you may be able to make use of 1,2, or 3. I get the distinct feeling that unless you're running race springs and hoosiers, 3 will not do any more than 2.
The only other thing separating them is weight (carbon fiber lighter than aluminum lighter than steel lighter than depleted uranium).
If you're still running stock doughnuts, its going to do you no good. What will help your handling much more is either springs or a rear ~19mm swaybar. The swaybar is also a hunk of metal (spring steel in this case), and the cheap suspension techniques is really just as good as the expensive DC Sports model.
Happy hunting
Rice-Rocketeer
02-22-2002, 11:03 PM
Very simple, hinged and non-hinged.
Hinged = Bad
Non-Hinged = Good
Hinged = Bad
Non-Hinged = Good
Swonder67
02-22-2002, 11:05 PM
Neuspeed's the best (non hinged as the others say)
xivera
02-23-2002, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Swonder67
Neuspeed's the best (non hinged as the others say)
In design... yes, I agree but, some people like the Spoon/Mugen over the Neuspeed... http://forums.off-topic.net/images/smilies/dunno.gif
Anyway, shorthand & RR are on point on this topic...
Neuspeed's the best (non hinged as the others say)
In design... yes, I agree but, some people like the Spoon/Mugen over the Neuspeed... http://forums.off-topic.net/images/smilies/dunno.gif
Anyway, shorthand & RR are on point on this topic...
JuMBoBeaTS
02-23-2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
Very simple, hinged and non-hinged.
Hinged = Bad
Non-Hinged = Good
how do i tell if its non-hinged or hinged??
to shorthand: is a sway bar relatively easy to install??? or is it sumthin i should get done at a shop???
what changes am i gonna see or feel if i install one??? i read in the FAQ (if i understood it correctly) that in hard cornering, for example, a right corner, the rear passenger wheel might lift off the pavement...
Very simple, hinged and non-hinged.
Hinged = Bad
Non-Hinged = Good
how do i tell if its non-hinged or hinged??
to shorthand: is a sway bar relatively easy to install??? or is it sumthin i should get done at a shop???
what changes am i gonna see or feel if i install one??? i read in the FAQ (if i understood it correctly) that in hard cornering, for example, a right corner, the rear passenger wheel might lift off the pavement...
sparq
02-23-2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by JuMBoBeaTS
how do i tell if its non-hinged or hinged??:huh: Uhhhh, whoa hey even I knew this one! Wooohooo... Look at the ends where the bar mounts to the car... do both ends "move" if so, its hinged... a solid bar is just that, a solid bar with nothing on it that moves!
Easy install, you can do it yourself...
how do i tell if its non-hinged or hinged??:huh: Uhhhh, whoa hey even I knew this one! Wooohooo... Look at the ends where the bar mounts to the car... do both ends "move" if so, its hinged... a solid bar is just that, a solid bar with nothing on it that moves!
Easy install, you can do it yourself...
shorthand
02-23-2002, 02:47 PM
Just because I give long winded answers doesn't mean I know more than many here. :D After all, I forgot completely about the hinged/non-hinged distinction. I would like to emphasize that you won't notice a thing on stock tires. They don't generate enough grip to cause much flex. Personally, I haven't removed mine ($35 hinged unit that was labled T Y P E - R upside down when I got it) since I put on the bigger tires. There is more bang for the buck to be had elsewhere in handling.
That being said - the strut bar is about the easiest thing you've ever installed. Its easier than changing your oil. The only gotcha is make sure you have the right size wrench (14 mm methinks) and don't compromise there. Beyond that, make sure you aren't wearing a belt with the metal buckle where it will scratch the fender, as you'll be leaning over it.
The rear swaybar requires jack stands, a couple of 14mm wrenches, some spray lube to loosen the suspension bolts, a floor jack, a drill, and some serious elbow grease. I did it myself - and was sore for the next three days. Those suspension bolts are on there tight! I guess it took me about 8 hours effort including shopping for tools - though that's unusually long. A friend would have been a big help.
That being said - the strut bar is about the easiest thing you've ever installed. Its easier than changing your oil. The only gotcha is make sure you have the right size wrench (14 mm methinks) and don't compromise there. Beyond that, make sure you aren't wearing a belt with the metal buckle where it will scratch the fender, as you'll be leaning over it.
The rear swaybar requires jack stands, a couple of 14mm wrenches, some spray lube to loosen the suspension bolts, a floor jack, a drill, and some serious elbow grease. I did it myself - and was sore for the next three days. Those suspension bolts are on there tight! I guess it took me about 8 hours effort including shopping for tools - though that's unusually long. A friend would have been a big help.
sparq
02-23-2002, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by shorthand
There is more bang for the buck to be had elsewhere in handling.Uhhh, you mean you can gain something else for the price of a cheapy strut bar? Since when ? :confused:
But I do agree with the fact that on stock rims/tires you wont notice much... but hey, you will have one for when you get some new rims and tires :) :D
There is more bang for the buck to be had elsewhere in handling.Uhhh, you mean you can gain something else for the price of a cheapy strut bar? Since when ? :confused:
But I do agree with the fact that on stock rims/tires you wont notice much... but hey, you will have one for when you get some new rims and tires :) :D
shorthand
02-23-2002, 03:18 PM
For that price? No. (Maybe 1/2 horse from a K&N Filter)
But in the gain/price ratio department, I'm a big fan of the rear swaybar. After all, it gave me 5 mph in the turns on stock tires with stock ride quality for $150. The strut bar costs 1/3-1/5 as much, but has perhaps 1/10 of the effect IMO.
As for the 3-wheel action, when you're braking and turning hard, yes my rear wheel will pick up. You don't really notice it, though, as there would be nearly no weight on it anyway. The tradeoff is that you get a stock-smooth ride with the swaybar and much of the handling improvment of springs. Also, the swaybar doesn't require new shocks.
But in the gain/price ratio department, I'm a big fan of the rear swaybar. After all, it gave me 5 mph in the turns on stock tires with stock ride quality for $150. The strut bar costs 1/3-1/5 as much, but has perhaps 1/10 of the effect IMO.
As for the 3-wheel action, when you're braking and turning hard, yes my rear wheel will pick up. You don't really notice it, though, as there would be nearly no weight on it anyway. The tradeoff is that you get a stock-smooth ride with the swaybar and much of the handling improvment of springs. Also, the swaybar doesn't require new shocks.
sparq
02-23-2002, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by shorthand
For that price? No. (Maybe 1/2 horse from a K&N Filter)
But in the gain/price ratio department, I'm a big fan of the rear swaybar. After all, it gave me 5 mph in the turns on stock tires with stock ride quality for $150. The strut bar costs 1/3-1/5 as much, but has perhaps 1/10 of the effect IMO.
As for the 3-wheel action, when you're braking and turning hard, yes my rear wheel will pick up. You don't really notice it, though, as there would be nearly no weight on it anyway. The tradeoff is that you get a stock-smooth ride with the swaybar and much of the handling improvment of springs. Also, the swaybar doesn't require new shocks. You are talking about like 3 differant things man. Where the heck does the K&N air filter come into play because you said best bang for the buck for suspension... I dont know about you but I dont have a K&N filter anywhere on my suspension! :finger:
And yes, a strut bar will not gain you MUCH... its not really a starting point, a strut bar in my opinion is more of a finishing touch. Rear sway bar, front and rear lower tie bars, new springs and shocks all should come before a strut bar unless all you are looking for is the "look" from it.
For that price? No. (Maybe 1/2 horse from a K&N Filter)
But in the gain/price ratio department, I'm a big fan of the rear swaybar. After all, it gave me 5 mph in the turns on stock tires with stock ride quality for $150. The strut bar costs 1/3-1/5 as much, but has perhaps 1/10 of the effect IMO.
As for the 3-wheel action, when you're braking and turning hard, yes my rear wheel will pick up. You don't really notice it, though, as there would be nearly no weight on it anyway. The tradeoff is that you get a stock-smooth ride with the swaybar and much of the handling improvment of springs. Also, the swaybar doesn't require new shocks. You are talking about like 3 differant things man. Where the heck does the K&N air filter come into play because you said best bang for the buck for suspension... I dont know about you but I dont have a K&N filter anywhere on my suspension! :finger:
And yes, a strut bar will not gain you MUCH... its not really a starting point, a strut bar in my opinion is more of a finishing touch. Rear sway bar, front and rear lower tie bars, new springs and shocks all should come before a strut bar unless all you are looking for is the "look" from it.
Rice-Rocketeer
02-23-2002, 09:12 PM
I'd also like to add that if you want to add a rear sway bar greater than like 19mm, a lower strut bar is reccomended to reduce the chance of chasis stress and tear from the sway bar mounting point.
shorthand
02-24-2002, 08:00 AM
If you go over 19mm rear bar, you need to replace your stock one up front too otherwise you're looking at oversteer hell anyway. (NOT fun on a FWD car.)
The idea on swaybars is to match the weight transfer (left to right) on the front and rear axles, not to reduce body roll.
The idea on swaybars is to match the weight transfer (left to right) on the front and rear axles, not to reduce body roll.
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