White smoke

Okay... I just replaced the head gasket in my 97 Cav, 2.2L . When I went to start it, it started but, I had a lot of white smoke coming out of the exhaust. It looked like a mosquito defogger going through the neighborhood.

I torqued the heads down to 43lbs on the short bolts and 46lbs on the long bolts.

Any ideas?

sounds like when people sea foam their cars.... lol...
Should be just burning off the excess oil... but if it continues then... did you clean the old gasket off well?... and when you installed it... when you tighten the bolts did you work from the center out?

okay... how long should it last?

I followed the Chiltons guide....1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10


thanks again

going from bad to worse....
the white smoke stopped.....but now i have water/anti-freeze leaking out of the corner of the engine block. I had the heads checked and shaved when it was off. I torqued the head bolts to the correct settings...

any other ideas?

oh yeah.... it started making a noise as if it were struggling to keep going. When i tried to restart the engine..it wouldn't. So, I am in the process of taking it apart to see WTF went wrong...this sucks.....

Another twist to the plot...The guy who owned the car before me had a problem of overheatiing...I think he mixed the Dex-cool and regular anti-freeze. Could it be possible one of the radiator ports inside the enginge block is clogged?

White smoke is not excess oil. It is coolant. Oil=blue smoke.
Coolant, Tranny fluid, and brake fluid=white smoke.

The torque spec you give in incomplete. Torque the the required foot pounds PLUS 90 DEGREES. You will have to redo this head gasket. Most head bolts end up over 80 lbs of torque so you are way shy. You mentioned that you shaved the head so you should be fine just putting in a new head gasket. Good Luck.

yeah... i did the 43LBS and 46LBS respectfully, plus 90 degrees. ieven called the local Chevy Dealer... the tech agreed with the rates I mentioned.

It could be that the torque wrench was out of calibration.

I'm thinking 10 hours of labor and a new head gasket I will be fine. Since the bolts probably weren't torqued down all the way, and were not stretched, I won't buy new ones.

This is annoying as hell....But, oh so fun....

The head gasket on this car is only about 4 hours. You will be supprised how much faster you are the second time.

Hint: Leave the intake manifold on the head. Again, Good Luck.

NEVER REUSE tork headbolts
never never never
If you did the 90 deg then the bolts are junk
1 . make sure the block and head are clean and dry
2. The tork pattern should start in the center of the head and work its way out in a round pattern

but... the bolts were not torqed correctly...I'm reusing them...at $8.00 each... they are like gold...

You said

yeah... i did the 43LBS and 46LBS respectfully, plus 90 degrees. ieven called the local Chevy Dealer... the tech agreed with the rates I mentioned. so did you tork them +90 or not??? If you did and reuse them it will not last long

i also stated the torque wrench could have been wrong.....

okay... this time i will use a gasket sealant on both the engine block and the heads. A complete "sandwich" of gasket sealant.

Any views on the stuff?

I have reused head bolts for years even on this model and have never had an issue. I know their stretched, 80% of yield strength, etc... If I had bothered to read the manual I would have been scared and replaced them. But I didn't. :slap:

Hell a couple of times through the years (roadside repairs) I didn't even use a torque wrench, after 20 years you just learn how 80 ft/lbs feels. Haven't had to redo one yet. Hope my luck holds.

But anyways, never use gasket sealer on a head gasket if you did that is the problem. This is a mated surface. Good Luck.

yeah..see.. i was testing you guys. i got a new gasket..fel-pro brand. And I bought a new torque wrench. It's raining today, so I have to wait until it dries up to get on with my project.


thanks again... Bighead

P.S. I will take photos of the big event when it finally works....

okay... this time i will use a gasket sealant on both the engine block and the heads. A complete "sandwich" of gasket sealant.

Any views on the stuff?

PLEASE DONT USE ANYTHING ON THE HEADGASKET OR THE HEAD OR BLOCK.

JUST A GOOD HEADGASKET AND CLEAN head and block ,the correct tork and the correct bolts tork pattern and you will be ok

Ok...new head gasket.. correct torque, correct pattern, and still leaking. What is the component that bolts to the head? Could it be the cause of my issues? I had some white smoke.. then it went away. then some darker smoke.. and it went away.. i was thinking the enigine was burning off some of the stuff.

See attached photo..

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/248878side-med.jpg

Anyone have a stock head for a '97 they mind selling? Just in case...

Any local junk yard would have one. They use this motor in a lot of chevys. Sounds like your head is warped, or perhaps cracked internally. As for your picture, can you put in an arrow or circle what you are inquiring about? It looks like you are asking about the thermostat housing. If it is cracked or the mount gasket is bad it will cause a coolant leak only. So it would not cause white smoke from the tailpipe. Good Luck.


BTW. How much faster were you the second time? I bet you do the third one in just over three hours.

It took about 3 hours less this time as compared to the last time. I had the heads checked and milled the last time it was off. The machinist said it wasn’t cracked, but I am going to have him re-check it. Is there anyway to check and see if the head is cracked internally?
So, all told, I am getting pretty good at doing this type of work. I will be opening up a “head gasket removal” shop when I return to the MainLand.

Thanks again for everyone’s help and assistance. Due to the holidays coming up, I don’t know how much more of the wallet can be allocated towards my happiness. Oh well…

p.s. I edited the photo to identify the part.

Okay... A local junkyard has a complete head for $250. Of course, I have to remove it myself or pay them to do it... I'm thinking the orignial head is cracked and I'm better off getting the new one. (Opinions on this?)

What I find baffling is there wasn't any evidence of "milkshake oil" or bubbles in the oil, either. Once I get it, I will have it shaved, checked, touched and fondled for leaks.
So, another $300 sunk into a "free" car. Cool.

Thanks for the circle. That is the thermostat housing. So I am afraid it is not the cause of your pain. You can get cracks between the water jacket and the intake port. You may also have a bad or incorrectly installed intake manifold gasket. The intake manifold on this engine also has water jackets, so the crack could be in there.

Yeah, the holidays are arriving too soon this year. I am still paying for those crazy hurricanes.

when you did this head job was there a dowl pin on the head or on the block in the area of the front or back of the head or block??
These are alignment pins and have to be there they are about 1 inch long and 1/2 inch round


It took about 3 hours less this time as compared to the last time. I had the heads checked and milled the last time it was off. The machinist said it wasn’t cracked, but I am going to have him re-check it. Is there anyway to check and see if the head is cracked internally?
So, all told, I am getting pretty good at doing this type of work. I will be opening up a “head gasket removal” shop when I return to the MainLand.

Thanks again for everyone’s help and assistance. Due to the holidays coming up, I don’t know how much more of the wallet can be allocated towards my happiness. Oh well…

p.s. I edited the photo to identify the part.

Would it be better to remove the intake manifold and check than doing the heads again?

here is the head when it was taken off...the first time...

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/248878heads.jpg

And here is the engine block...
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/248878engine-med.jpg

here is the reason why I thought it was just a head gasket problem.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/248878gasket-med.jpg

Also.. The engine made a whining noise from around the fuel regulator area when it first started up. Sounded like it was struggling to do something...

I will remove the intake and check the gasket to see if it is ripped or otherwise bad.

I will check the cylinders to make sure there isn't any liquid inside them...
I will use a Q-tip on the end of a coat-hanger. If it comes back wet, I have problems.

Sounds like a good plan. I would have seen that head gasket and thought the same thing. Again Good Luck.

Did you clean the head and block with sandpaper and get it super clean???
NO leftover gasket gunk anywhere on the head or block??? If there is it will cause a leak!!

yes... I cleaned the head and the engine block prior to putting the head back on.

I checked the cylinder for water using a Q-tip..NOTHING was in there..Dry as ever.

So, what is next? Could the head still be cracked even though there is no water in the cylinder?

Could it be possible the cooling system is backed up (clogged) and the water has no where to go?

Then the next step would be to have the head pressure tested at a machine shop because its looking like you have a cracked head or engine block

Could it be possible that it has an internal crack in it as Public said? If so, how would it be detected?

thanks again.

For Sale: 97 Cav.Needs engine work.

head dye test and pressure test most any auto machine machine shop can do it.

Okay..Will do. If no leaks are found, then what? A possible engine block crack?

Possible and the intake gasket and the intake manifold can also get coolant into the cylinders.

So, as i see it, check the intake manifold for cracks and the gasket to ensure it was seated correctly. Try again.. If the white smoke and water continue, take the head off and have it tested.

Thanks again.

Yep, wish I had an easier answer for you.

Although the solutions aren't easy to perform, they are greatly appreciated. So, thanks again...

I might get some free time tomorrow to rip the engine apart. If not, Tuesday for sure. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion of "White Smoke"

I will be here, I bet others are too.

The odd thing is, there isn't coolant in the cylinders. Or at least #2 and #4. I will check #1 and #3 tomorrow to ensure I have a good seal.

There was liquid in cylinder #1. Took the heads off in just under two hours. Taking it to the Machine shop...

Okay... Machine shop says no leaks found during the pressure check. I have looked for the water port on the intake manifold and I can't find it. I will take pictures of the head (intake side) as well as the intake manifold. If someone could point out where the port is, I would greatly appreciate it. I called the dealer and got the equivalent of "deer in the headlights look". So, I will pick up the head in the morning and take the pictures and post them.

Yo
this is a chevy 2.2 there is NO water of any kind going to the intake manifold.
What I would do next is to very slowly fill the block with water (with everything still off) and see if water shows up in cyl 1 there might be a crack in the cyl wall. Make sure that the piston is all the way down so it will be easy to see

Okay... How do i get the piston all the way down? When I took the head off, there was water in the ports around the pistons.

Are there any GM mechanics on Oahu that could help with this issue?

turn the crank shaft

Here is the block... No water leaked into the cylinders last night


http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/248878block.jpg

Today, I'm picking up the head and a NAPA head gasket. I will give it a try tonight.

Please tell me you clean the head and block better then that pic shows.
When you install the head gasket you do put in on the block and then lower the head onto it with out sliding the head around
A must do is to change the oil and filter before you fire up the engine.
So the shop said that there is no crack in the head . I am not sure what else I can do to help you.

Here is what the components looked like before I put it back together.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/248878cleanblock-med.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/248878cleanengine-med.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/248878cleanside.jpg

One thing i did find was...there was water in the holes where the head bolts go. I'm thinking I wasn't getting a good seal on the head gasket because you can only compress water so far before it becomes a solid. I dried out the holes and put some thread sealant on the head bolts before I put them in.

Fireplug... Yes, I set the gasket down and then set the head on top of it.

Of course I will let you guys know how everything goes.

Bighead...

ALL DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I put it back together tonight and it works..no white smoke...no bogging down.... no hesitations...there is one small issue... but I will start a new thread for it...

Thanks again to everyone's assistance and patience as I figured out what I was doing.

did you put thread sealer on the headbolts every time or just this time> because there should be a sealer on the bolts and as per the water in the bolt holes that is normal that is way a sealer is a must do.
Man I am so happy it worked this time.

I did not put the threat sealer on the first two times I tried. After I removed the water from the holes and did the torque-to-yield on the head bolts, that thing felt pretty snug. This time I also put gasket sealer on the water return gasket on the side of the head. Had it running for 15 minutes with no water leaks.

One note: If anyone has to replace their own Head Gasket, I recommend the NAPA brand gasket. It seemed to have a better, more exacting fit than the Carquest or Fel-Pro kind. Just my two-cents worth.

Thanks again....