At what RPM should I launch my stock GST at the track?

Hey everyone. I've taken my car to the track a few times to see how I'd run. The best time I've gotten so far with my auto GST (stock) is 16.3... I don't know about you guys, but I think that's pathetic, and I know I can do better... I need to know at what RPM it would be the best to launch at, and I'd like to know when the best time to shift would be. My buddies have told me to blow off the turbo right before redline and then shift, but I've only tried shifting while blowing off so far. I need to know what the best way to shift would be so that I get my car within the 15 or possibly high 14 second range... Help me out... Thanx...

My buddies have told me to blow off the turbo right before redline and then shift, but I've only tried shifting while blowing off so far.

I have no idea what your buddies are talking about. Especially since its an auto. The turbo shouldnt "blow off" at all until you finish your run.

By blow off, I mean take my foot off the accelerator, then putting my foot back down on it... O_o lol

I dont think that will make the car any faster ;)

I'm not sure about that... Won't letting the turbo blow off relieve, then quickly reinsert pressure? Thus, making me accelerate a little better? Don't forget, manual cars do that already since you have to let go of the accelerator to switch gears. If I'm switching gears in an auto, I do believe I have to do the same, otherwise I think I might blow the turbo or my engine...

another question? how the hell are you launching it at varied RPM's?

PLEASE tell me you are not revving it and slamming it down into drive.


personally I would put it in 1, hold the brake with left foot, or instep of left foot if pedals are close enough, and when the staging lights are lit, floor it with the right foot or outside of right if doing option 2. by the time the 3 yellows went by it should be stalled a pretty good RPM, and then when the last yellow has lit slip foot over all the way to the gas or release the brake and go, then right before redline push the stick into 2, then right before redline shift up to D or however yours are numbered/lettered. none of that letting off the gas and flooring it crap, alls it does is take fractions of a second away from the time you are actually accelerating and letting out the boost only to make it have to build again (which wouldnt take long sicne the turbo stays spinning pretty damn fast but still wastes precious time) Id try it not shifting it either to see if it makes a difference, ive been in cars where it automatically shifts right at redline, my mustang shifted pretty early, and some cars ive been in upshift faster by themselves than when the driver intervenes and does it them selves, my car was one of them but I still think it was faster my way cuz I didnt fall so low in the curve even though it took a bit longer to shift

I'm not sure about that... Won't letting the turbo blow off relieve, then quickly reinsert pressure? Thus, making me accelerate a little better? Don't forget, manual cars do that already since you have to let go of the accelerator to switch gears. If I'm switching gears in an auto, I do believe I have to do the same, otherwise I think I might blow the turbo or my engine...
its better to hold boost, then let it go.

Neutral drop, NEVER!!! I know how bad it is to do that... I just leave in low, rev to about 3000 rpms (right when the turbo spools), then let go of the gas and go... I'm going to try without shifting and without letting off the gas while I shift. It might help... But hey, with a stock GST, what's the best time that I could get?

then let go of the gas and go...

let go of the gas? i dont think that will help. lol :lol:

Oops, I meant let go of the brake... :p

I'm not sure about that... Won't letting the turbo blow off relieve, then quickly reinsert pressure? Thus, making me accelerate a little better? Don't forget, manual cars do that already since you have to let go of the accelerator to switch gears. If I'm switching gears in an auto, I do believe I have to do the same, otherwise I think I might blow the turbo or my engine...


it does that on a manual, not for the sake of "being quicker" when you hit the next gera, its so when you close the throttle plate theirs not 15 lbs+ of boost pushing against it and building tons of boost in the piping/IC cuz nowhere to go, since engines not breathing it all in.

and when you let off and floor it again, you feel it jump, but thats cuz you let off so now your not accelerating and when you stomp on it your high in the powerband where you got most your power and it pulls hard right there. and is 3k the highest stall speed you can get outta your car?

I'm not sure about that... Won't letting the turbo blow off relieve, then quickly reinsert pressure? Thus, making me accelerate a little better? Don't forget, manual cars do that already since you have to let go of the accelerator to switch gears. If I'm switching gears in an auto, I do believe I have to do the same, otherwise I think I might blow the turbo or my engine...

you want as much pressure goin thru the motor at all times without getting knock!

i dont blame you kevin for not posting in this thread after this post :disappoin

'm not sure about that... Won't letting the turbo blow off relieve, then quickly reinsert pressure? Thus, making me accelerate a little better?

No.

Think about it, bro...combustion relies on the amount of intake air to be powerful. That's why turbochargers make our cars so much faster. Would closing off the supply of intake air when you don't drive a manual car and need to change gears really help INCREASE performance?

Launch at like 3k rpm, hold the pedal to the floor, and break into the 15s ;).

Thanx man... :thumbsup: I really needed that... lol Now I'm gonna shut my friends up (they're Honda lovers :lol: bent on making me get rid of my GST. And they don't think I'll hit 14 seconds with this car. In time, though, they'll see... ;)

OH YEAH! I also forgot to ask. At around what RPM is the best time for me to shift in my auto? I'm thinking between 6500 and 7000 (redline)... I know I can't shift at 7000 since I have that delay, being that it's an auto, so when should I shift?

They're just trying to hold you down. ;) Keep it floored for the length of the track and show them the fast way down.

To provide a little more info... Some people with 5 speeds spend a bit of money for ECUs that will allow us to shift with the throttle floored. Its called no lift shifting, stutter shifting, anti lag, etc. Bacically when the clutch is in and the gas is floored the ECU sets the rev limit to some lower value, in my case 6000 rpm. So there is no over rev when the clutch is in, and it holds boost in the same way a stutter box works at the line.

So I used this on my last run at the track. I floor it with the clutch in as soon as I Stage. I didnt let off the gas again until I passed the traps (with a blown motor no less). I ran the same 126 mph speeds, but my ET dropped from 11.8-12.0 to 11.3. ;)

So my point is people with 5 speeds go through a bit of effort to make thier cars work like automatics, in the sense that you dont want to lift when you shift. What your friends are trying to make you do is the exact opposite of what makes the car faster :)

It was already clear I think, that you want to keep it floored when your tranny shifts, but I hope that adds a little more explanation to it.

On my manual, I found that by shifting at LOWER rpm the car was faster. .5 seconds faster to be exact. Its almost always best to go to redline in 1st because of the gear ratio spread though. I went a little below redline at 7k since the t25 is pretty damn small.

So, I was doing 7k in first, and 6k in all subsequent gears. That was worth a half second vs 7k in all gears. But dont take my word for it, experiment a bit at the track and see what works best for the auto.

On my manual, I found that by shifting at LOWER rpm the car was faster. .5 seconds faster to be exact. Its almost always best to go to redline in 1st because of the gear ratio spread though. I went a little below redline at 7k since the t25 is pretty damn small.

So, I was doing 7k in first, and 6k in all subsequent gears. That was worth a half second vs 7k in all gears. But dont take my word for it, experiment a bit at the track and see what works best for the auto.

You know? I noticed that. It stops loosing speed around 5-6k. Glad you said something, cause I thought it was just me.

ok, well I know I said redline but I never driven a GST auto, so I dont know the gears or the power curve. but in my mustang the auto SO tall, I could go 55 in first before I hit redline which was like 4800 I think, so If i shifted early at all Id fall WAY TOO LOW and car would be SLOW, was slow anyways. and I got ripped cuz I got the 95 and 2 years later the damn thing got I think like 50 HP more, not sure if the redline was raised or not, probably to get that power out of the same displacement V6. also in my friends B16 civic if he shifts early he falls out of vtec which doesnt help his car. the 6-8k is where all the power is so hes gotta stay up there in a race.

Alright! Now I'm set to embarass my friends even more. I forgot to mention that they actually thought a, what was it, I think 92 Honda Accord SOHC could beat my Eclipse at the track. lol We ran three times and I beat him all three, but I have to give him props. I got a 16.5 on one run and he got a 16.8, so he was doing good with his shifting (he has a manual, I have an auto). Sad thing is, I got a 16.3 as my fastest time and that 16.8 was his fastest. I really hope this "non-lift" shifting gets me into the 15's...

I think a stock GST(auto) runs 15.7. Where do you live?

i have my launch limiter set @ 4500

I cant get out of the hole below 5k. I've had really good sucess at 5500. Even in cool weather. When i get the car lighter I want to try a lower launch limit (like 4500) but with more boost (DSMlink's antilag) and see if my clutches last a little longer while stil getting me 1.5-1.6 second 60 foots. .

yeah but you got AWD, he doesnt, I dont thin a 5500 rpm launch would be good for him, plus I doubt the converter has that high of a stall speed.

I was responding to the guy above me there. Autos dont have launch limiters. :)

Hey,

Typcailly a 2g with stock stuff should shift around 6,500 RPM's. But it's how long your 2g block will last before it goes out. I would say the 1g swap is well worth the time and money. I did it and it is by FAR the cheapest best upgrade so far. But if you want maximum performance. Keep your 2g head. Port it and get a 1g Intake manifold. The 2g Exhaust manifold is better then the 1g manifold so that would stay the same. And for the racing scene. It is better to stay on the gas as much as possible. Thats where your power comes from is mid to high RPM's. The way I race and a bunch of other people is we never take our foot off the gas. We have the chip and all that stuff but when you have a studder box type thing where it is set to 7,500 RPM's. You don't have to take your foot off. But if you wanted me to give you detailed info on the 1g Swap of stuff you would need to change and what not... I would be more then happy to. And if you Do decide to do it. Keep your 2g block because you will need a bunch of stuff from that to make your life easier. Well anyhow, take care.

when i launch i try to feel for the tires and when there about to slip, and make adjustments with the trottle to keep maximum grip.

5500 RPMS?! I can barely get it to 4000 without my car slowly moving forward! lol But yeah, you got a GSX... Lucky bastard... lol Well anyway, I'll think about porting and getting the 1g intake manifold like Eclipse Boy said, but how much does it cost? I need to know the prices of stuff since I'm on a budget right now... :p

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1g2gheadswaptechtip.htm
u can get the parts at any junkyard prices may very...

I was responding to the guy above me there. Autos dont have launch limiters. :)


well if your sitting at the teree with brake pushed and gas floored its not gonna get to redline, the TQ will keep the engine to a lower RPM so basically he has what he has, no way to get it to launch at higher revs unless he has the TQ modded or gets a higher stall speed TQ

well if your sitting at the teree with brake pushed and gas floored its not gonna get to redline, the TQ will keep the engine to a lower RPM so basically he has what he has, no way to get it to launch at higher revs unless he has the TQ modded or gets a higher stall speed TQ



Yes. But the guy I was responding to has a 5 speed as far as I know. And this is why I said autos dont have launch limiters, you dont need them since the torque converter load the motor to allow it to build boost.

Hey,

Typcailly a 2g with stock stuff should shift around 6,500 RPM's. But it's how long your 2g block will last before it goes out. I would say the 1g swap is well worth the time and money. I did it and it is by FAR the cheapest best upgrade so far. But if you want maximum performance. Keep your 2g head. Port it and get a 1g Intake manifold. The 2g Exhaust manifold is better then the 1g manifold so that would stay the same. And for the racing scene. It is better to stay on the gas as much as possible. Thats where your power comes from is mid to high RPM's. The way I race and a bunch of other people is we never take our foot off the gas. We have the chip and all that stuff but when you have a studder box type thing where it is set to 7,500 RPM's. You don't have to take your foot off. But if you wanted me to give you detailed info on the 1g Swap of stuff you would need to change and what not... I would be more then happy to. And if you Do decide to do it. Keep your 2g block because you will need a bunch of stuff from that to make your life easier. Well anyhow, take care.

2g blocks can rev to 8500 rpm safely. Its been done for years, dont take my word for it. I dont see how keeping the 2g head is for maximum performance, when everyone that swap to a 1g head picks up another 3 lbs/min airflow. Including me. Have you measured airflow before and after changing only the head? ;) I would also not recomend porting a 2g head to match a 1g intake. The bottle neck you would end up with isnt going to help performance. For some one on the 2g head I would recomend a 2g manifold modified to accept the larger 1G tb if nothing else. Or a Magnus 2g SMIM.

i have a tsi with the dsm link chip in it but i only have the stock setting cause i accidently reset my ecu and the kid i bought the car off had the cable and disk stolen so im stuck in a rut till sombody sells one , or i get off my ass and order the stuff from dsmlink .......ps should my antilag still be working?

Antilag is off by default, so it wont work if your ECU was reset.

Darn... I tried revving higher yesterday... Didn't work... :( The max I could rev it to was about 3000 or like 3200 or something... It sucked... :p Well whatever, as long as I'll know how to shift, I'll find out if I can get that 15 on Friday at the track... Again, thanx all for the info...

thats not too bad, you dont wanna be revving too hgh anyways, your FWD on street tires.

Yeah true... lol But hey, hopefully I'll get my car down to 13's... Maybe 12's... After that, I doubt I'll want to go any further, unless I have the money and I need it for making $$$ or something...

I dont see how keeping the 2g head is for maximum performance, when everyone that swap to a 1g head picks up another 3 lbs/min airflow. Including me. Have you measured airflow before and after changing only the head? ;) I would also not recomend porting a 2g head to match a 1g intake. The bottle neck you would end up with isnt going to help performance. For some one on the 2g head I would recomend a 2g manifold modified to accept the larger 1G tb if nothing else. Or a Magnus 2g SMIM.

actually the 2g head can flow a lot better than a 1g head if you have a nice port job done on it... i know a couple guys from QPR ( www.qprinc.com (http://www.qprinc.com) ) and they have done a study on it and the 2g heads and they flow a lot more. when they post up the flowbench chart numbers i'll do a thread about it...

but as far as stock vs stock, yes the 1g head is a shit load better!

But why spend all that money just to get a 2g head to flow marginally better than a 1g. Flowbench results are just arbitrary numbers. You need to look at HP to see how they compare. If they post HP comparison I would certianly be interested to see it.

But why spend all that money just to get a 2g head to flow marginally better than a 1g.

Doesn't better air flow equal more horse power? :confused:

i told the guy he can put the head on my car, run it on the dyno, and put the 1g head back on then run it on the dyno again to see the hp gains... we are talking about doing someting like that cause on a 2g head you hava so much more room to port compared to a 1g, he has a chunk of head from a 1g and a 2g the was cut in half so he could see what to port, where to port and what would work best and so far the 2g head is the best... well find out with hp numbers i guess.

Nice. Thats the right way to do it. To answer your question SSZero, flow benches can ony test static flow. Put them in a dynamic situation (valves open and closing, pistons speeds vary, manifold harmonics, etc) and things are vastly different. Many many people have bolted on these massively flowing heads nad picked up ZERO hp. And for a couple grand, that must be pretty dissapointing :lol:

Hey guys, just to let you know, I ran a 15.965 on Friday... Thanx a lot for your tips. I reduced my time by .7 seconds! And this is to verify that shifting at lower RPMs does give you a better time. I ran a 16 flat when I shifted at redline in first and around 6300 RPMs for second to third. I ran the 15.9 shifting from 68 or 6900 at first and 6300 at second. I just need to work on shifting a little lower in first and I'll get like a 15.8 or 15.7... :)

Shift high in first. The torque from the low gear ratio is still better at high RPM than shifting. 7000 in first, 6000 in the rest.

when you guys in the manual cars shift do you let off the gas between gears, when your shifting....or do u let off to a cirtin RPM range when shifting?

when im raceing i go to 7,200 in first and 6.5-7 in the rest and when shiftin i dont let my rpms drop below 5

when you guys in the manual cars shift do you let off the gas between gears, when your shifting....or do u let off to a cirtin RPM range when shifting?

That's a good question...

when im raceing i go to 7,200 in first and 6.5-7 in the rest and when shiftin i dont let my rpms drop below 5

I found this to be ineffective at the track. When I shifted at lower rpms in second (6000 - 6500), I reduced my time at the track by .4 seconds. :thumbsup: If you need me to show you my time slips, I'll whip them out too. The only thing I have left to try is shiftin just a little lower in first to see if that helps or not... Don't forget, when I shifted in second gear at low rpms, I hit 15.9s... I just gotta figure out what I need to do to get it to 15.5... :p

Hey guys, I made it down to 15.7 at the track so far... I'm working on getting some better shifting so that I get it down lower... So far, the techniques described have all worked in lowering my car's time... Thanx for all the tips...

Progress is good. Nice work. :)

Thanx. After I get some $$$ and put some work into my car, hopefully I'll have it down to 14's... My goal is either to get a 12 or 13 second car... :sunglasse The only thing is, I'm also worried about shifting manually in my automatic... I'm not supposed to be doing it, so does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do other than an auto to manual swap?

well ive heard switchin from atuo to manuel will eat the hell outa clutchs but if ur worryed about it fuckin up ur trans id just go ahead and do it cuz its a whole lot cheeper to put a new clutch in every few thousand miles then a new tranny

well ive heard switchin from atuo to manuel will eat the hell outa clutchs but if ur worryed about it fuckin up ur trans id just go ahead and do it cuz its a whole lot cheeper to put a new clutch in every few thousand miles then a new tranny

Holy shit, you're right... I didn't even think about that before... But isn't there anything I could do with the auto tranny that would help it out for shifting rather than changing it to manual AND still leaving my tranny in a not-so-bad condition?

now I wanna see somewhere credible claim that an auto->manual swap will cause premature wear on clutches. the car could have come with a 5 speed, and it would have been same car/same engine, youll be using a tranny that bolts perfectly to your engine, as long as you dont reuse an old/messed up flywheel,pressure plate, TO bearing, disc then there should be no problems.

a higher stall speed TQ will let you launch harder since it will let the engine build up to a higher speed at launch. maybe you could find some kind of electronics or sometrhing that modifies the shift curves and shifting speed.

you don't shift!! thats the point its an AUTOMATIC!!!!! why are you racing an automatic!!!!

you don't shift!! thats the point its an AUTOMATIC!!!!! why are you racing an automatic!!!!

Because I like to race? lol The only reason I shifted was because my friend had an auto integra before and got his best time through shifting... I'm trying to make mine fast as an auto... Does it matter if it's manual or auto anyway? It's a car, and I like to race.

THere are some FAST automatic DSMs. Russ Coxe and Kevin Kwaitowski come to mind. Check the DSM times page ;)

IPT does a lot of tranny work for the fast guys, I think the URL is www.importperformancetrans.com. But many local people have just done the typical endclutch/shift kit/spring upgrade, and its good for ~400 HP and shift much faster than stock. A TC will help too but they can get pricey for a good one. A full race build from IPT is nearly 3 grand too.

There are many advantages to racing an automatic in a DSM. The first that comes to mind is that there is no turbo lag between shifts. How long did I struggle with lag before I finally got that 11.3? ;) IF just shifting a little faster with the throttle floored took 7 tenths off my time, imagine what an auto would do for me.

Just my opinion though.