Opinion: Water Pump Bolts Torque Spec

Alright. My water pump has been giving me problems for a long time, and it finially started making noises and really leaking. So I replaced it back on the 20th. After which I religiously checked the coolant everytime I parked for a week. Everything looked great.

I heard a new high pitched whine coming from my engine today, so I popped the hood. Coolant tank was bone dry, antifreeze everywhere. This time it's leaking out of the top of the inlet side, last time it was the bottom of the outlet side (of the pump, not the engine).

When I installed the new water pump and gasket, I torqued the bolts to what I thought were the manufacturer specs. 30Nm on the long bolts into the block (the ones to outsides, over the coolant passages), 15Nm on the short bolts securing the water pump.

I tightened the outer bolts first, then the inners. Crossing pattern on each, exactly to torque. Afterwards, I started debating if I should of done the reverse. The reason being, the gasket BULGED out all the way around the water pump. Near half the width of the gasket. Which has since dried up and flaked off.

The funny thing is... one of the only places it really didn't bulge out is where it's leaking now. That area also has a healthy glob of RTV still stuck to the metal, I can see coolant seaping out from underneath it.

So opinion time boys and... girl? Which bolts first, which bolts last, in what order? To what torque on each? (As the spec is appearently too much if it pushed the gasket out.)

Or did I just get a creapo gasket with my water pump? (As the standard Felpro gasket I bought for my Outlet when replacing the thermostat a month ago is still holding strong as ever.)

Just go buy a gasket? Or return the whole water pump under warrenty, get a new water pump, and buy a different gasket just to be on the safe side? (Which means... I have to find someone to drive me around while the engine is torn apart.)

I'm also going to use a modified version of the GM Factory Tool for supporting the engine for service. Basically... a 2x4 and a couple lag bolts. (I REALLY don't like putting a jack on my oil pan. So many bad things could happen... like blocking the oil pick up, loosing oil pressure, and seizing the engine b/c of it.)

Beyond that... this time I'm doing it in the apartment complex parking lot.

God... I can't believe I'm going to have to go buy another gallon of $9/bottle high-milage antifreeze... and that's if I'm lucky. (I don't like to reuse coolant that's run down the side of the engine and struts into a drain pan... especially when it's new antifreeze.)

Maybe I'll find a way to siphon it out of the radiator. (Did a total system flush less than 2 months ago after all.) Suggestions? I'm open to anything at this point. I've spent the last 6 hours repeating "<random explicative> I can't believe that thing is leaking again." While watching the engine idle trying to determine how THAT MUCH coolant sprayed out in like... an hour of city driving.

Now I'm going to put the caffine away and stop typing.

If it were me I would return the whole pump under warrenty, get a new water pump, and buy a different gasket, just as you said. Sometimes those gaskets are about as good as a bananna peal. I guess that you don't have to return the actual pump if you don't think it's necessay, and you could just get a new gasket and replace the one you had.

Sorry I can't offer to drive you around while you do all that...

Good luck...

Later:)

Hi
Are you sure it's not the bypass hose from the pump to the intake manifold, Either the hose or the manifold fitting, Much to my supprise some of them are nylon/plastic ?? and they are famous for breaking, It's a dealer item around here (??$16.00 for the fitting ?)it's back under the alternator so its very hard to see while the alt is installed, That's luckily how I found mine, I was changing the alt. and in the process touched the hose and it moved and water came out, The new fitting's are metal. I had the drill and chizel cut the old one out because it broke off right at the manifold, If you look back I think around last jul/aug in thia thread there were quite a few posts about this, So try to make sure before taking the pump back off.
Rick

My coolant intake is actually moulded into the alunimum engine block. Not a drop of moisture around the hose or the bypass... in fact, they've never been removed from their fittings, and I preffer to keep it that way. LOL

This time it looks to be leaking on the top. In one of the few places that the gasket didn't slide out in fact. It's even got RTV still stick to the metal... There was a puddle of coolant there last night, then after getting it dried up, I watch it, and could see it seaping out from under the RTV.

When I go supply shopping, I'll be watching it very closely to see if I can find another place it's leaking between engine starts. This time though... it's leaking twice as bad. The only thing that's been changed is the water pump and gaskest, nothing else has even been pushed around.

To get the coolant out of the rad I use a ten dollar drill pump and only use the pump for coolant. I snake the suction side down inside the rad and pump out as much as I can into a clean container, when the job is done I just pour it back in.

Buy some gasket material and make a nice gasket. You may also purchase a high quality fel-pro gasket if you do not want to cut your own, but the roll of gasket material is usually thicker and will be more forgiving if the mating surfaces are not perfect.
Apply a very thin coat of RTV to both sides.
Install this and you should have no more problems.
Good Luck.

Gotta give props to creslevi on the bypass hose fitting.

I was absolutely sure that was fine. I've never removed or touched anything anywhere near the fitting that could of feasibly broken it. BUT....

I went to AutoZone last night to buy a water pump gasket. As it my habit, I popped the hood and grabbed my flashlight to once again look at the water pump, coolant levels, etc. I do so now everytime I stop, probably for the next month. (I.e. Every 10 miles. LOL)

Popped the hood, and there was a freaking steam of coolant spraying from under radiator that had never been there before. While cussing and looking, it suddenly stopped... Apparently the only time it has enough pressure to spray is after the engine is hot, but not hot enough to keep the thermostat open all the time. But the engine apparently has to be hot enough that the thermostat has opened, allowing the pump to pressurize the engine with coolant. When the thermostat closes, there would be a couple seconds where enough pressure built enough to spray the coolant out of that fitting. As that path of coolant is the "bypass/bleed off" thus, isn't normally pressurized. At least, that's my therory.

Ripped the alternator off. Found the fitting, cussed some more. Went into AutoZone and told them I needed one. I only had half the fitting and didn't know what the hell it was, so they looked at me blankly. I then spent 45 minutes walking through the back isles with one of the employees blindly hunting something that looked like it. (That and trying to convince them that there was a preformed tube to go with it, and that I was not going to "just replace it with a piece of heater hose.")

Then I spent 3 hours in the AutoZone parking lot trying to get the fitting out. (As I couldn't really drive the car home with the fitting completely busted in half and it spraying coolant everywhere.) Ended up using my MagLight to hammer my pocket knife into remains of the fitting, then sticking a screwdriver through the knife handle and torquing it. Which accomplished nothing but shaving the inside of the fitting down until I could finially whack it with a straight screwdriver, break it, and then pry it out with a comination of the screwdriver and my fingers.

7p - 10p in my engine compartment at AutoZone with two socket sets, screwdrivers, my knife, and MagLight. Finially got it out. Then I tried to get all the little pieces of plastic out of the engine. That failed, basically just managed to get them further into the engine. Concluded I couldn't do anything about it and "they'll probably melt before they get to the water pump."

Of course the replacement fitting requires an 7/8-1" deep drive socket, which I of course do not have. I could of gone into AutoZone and convinced them to let me borrow one from their shelf stock. (They came out a couple times to check on me, as I was there until they went home.) But after taking it upon myself to go into the back and find the part myself, plus someone knocking my coke over while I was in the back and them having to mop it up, I figured it was just better not to.

Plus, the manager is from like... Chesklovockia and I was probably insulting her by staring blankly when she talked while my brain sorted out the words. (I've got a co-worker from Turkey, he's lived in the US 25 years, works for the US gov't, and he sounds like he just moved here yesterday. I usually say "what" about 10 times at the begining of the conversation until I know what subject he's on, and then I can keep up.)

Anyway, my point is I now have blisters one the sides of both index fingers and both thumbs from installing the fitting well enough to get home. The threads of course were screwed up from me chiseling the old one out, so it was a lot of working it back and forth to get the threads cleaned up. Added RTV and a pair of slide locks to is when it got home, so we'll hope it doesn't leak. The O-ring deformed a little but while tightening despite my best efforts. (The groove for the O-ring was obviously cut with a plastic fitting in mind. The metal one is a few hairs larger.)

I saved the pieces... I'm going to show people this. Plastic! WHY? Why use plastic fittings in an alunimum engine. Fine, replace parts with all plastic ones. But bolt them on with metal bolts. Vacuum hoses, fine. Plastic trim pieces, fine. But why in the world would you ever put threads on anything plastic. Beyond that, why would you ever screw it into the engine? Beyond that, why would you ever rely on it to carry coolant or any other engine critical fluid?

Anything that every needs to be replaced to make your car funtional should never be made out of plastic. I don't care if it does make the car 4 oz heavier. I put 100 lbs of stereo equipment in the trunk, so posh!

Now, if I can figure out how to replace the license plate light bulbs. The lenses are retained with plastic phillips screws that go into the metal clips. A couple hours sitting in my trunk with a flashlight revieled they aren't anything like a screw or a bolt. Turning them just turns a bulge that is snaped into the clip. WHY but a PHILLIPS head on it if turning it with a SCREWDRIVER doesn't do ANYTHING.

Apparently you have to remove the entire rear assembly to replace the license plate lights, but you can replace every other bulb in the assembly through a hole in the trunk. There's no way to reach the license plate lights unless I find someone with 8 inch long, really thin fingers.

Alright, I'm done ranting. What an experience! Thanks creslevi!

Hi
Sorry you had to experience the bypass fitting away from home beleive me I know what you went thru, It's been my understanding that the bypass gives the water a little avenue to travel thru while the thermostat is closed, once you are at operating temp. it's not needed.
I couldn't tell what you used for a fitting ?, if you just found the appropriate thread size sleeve to put the nipple into and you put an O ring around it, that's probly why it bulged, and that's why its a ??$16.00 dealer fitting, It has a little recessed grove at the end of the threads for the O ring to sit in, I only used teflon tap on the threads of mine and a new hose of course.
After your last post to me I almost wrote back to suggest you doublecheck that nipple, But figured you already had, There has been many posts in the last year about plastic intake manifolds cracking and leaking water sometimes inside the engine, If your manifold is all plastic i would urge you to go back and check the previos posts about plastic manifolds.
Just remeber the old saying there is no school for experience !!.
Rick