91 Firefly Charging problem..

Hi..91 1.0 (Canada built).NOT charging.Turn the key to on..EVERYTHING IS NORMAL.Batt. dash light comes on.Starts.Batt dash light goes off.EVERYTHING IS NORMAL..running.Basic wire/connections/batt are checked and ok.Put in fully charged batt..run..drains it.Change alternator.Ditto.Change battery. Ditto.Started this yesterday.Where is the engine to firewall/chassis ground wire/strap?Can't find it??..What are the basic tests/connections to test and follow the alternator output?EVEN the basic wires out of the alternator..which are which would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!..I have a Chilton manual..about the ONLY one I can find in Toronto..and BOY is it USELESS!..There is SOME difference Canada and Japan built..not sure what.Thanks VERY MUCH! for any help!..Arnold..

Ahhh, i've seen this MANY times, heh. Well, what it seems is that your alternator wire has melted. The wire from your alternator goes to the bottom of the fuseblock, then out the other side, to the + side of the battery. They have a bad habit of melting at the input side of the fuseblock. The fuseblock is toast on that side. So just run the alternator wire directly to the battery post with a 60a fuse in-line.

Thats right, the alternator wire is fried, so make sure you have a high grade 10 gauge wire with clean copper ring connector on the alternator HOT terminal post. Make sure the POST is clean and bright. Use sandpaper to clean the POST bolt. This is a common problem with the GEO alternators. You can wire directly to battery if you like, and bypass the fuse box.

THANKS! guys..I manged to find another manual..a Haynes.LUCKED OUT! This is the ONLY other one I have seen in Toronto.This one seems a lot better..at least a wiring schematic..

This thing was gonna frost my corn I tell ya..
We buy the car..GREAT! little car..WOW!!
When we pick it up it has a TERRIBLE!!! squealing..NOT there when we bought it??? The guy said he had to change the alternator and the batterry???..ya the belt is ok/tight..On it squeals till I get another alternator in the bone.
Change it everything ok..for a few days.Quits.
Change it back to the squealer..ok THEN ..quits??
Try the changed alternator with a different battery.Ok..Switch the original battery back in.Squeals.I figured that the battery had an intermittent dead short.Quits.??
Back to the original battery..squeals..quits.
Back to the second alternator..second battery NOW it seems ok..charging..happy..I drive it for 2 hrs..city/hwy..HAPPY! little car..it was charging..charged the dead battery..everything worked..As SOON as I got home..loses electrical power..stops charging..quits.
Next day..try the original alternator..works ok for a while..charges/everything works..quits..
I have NOW! nailed it down..it WILL work..UNTIL it has run for awhile..THEN quits..

Does the alternator wire get hot,melt..lose MOST of it's ability to handle a larger load/charge perhaps at a kink,joint..like you experts said..at the junction/fuse panel..THEN when it cools..regain enough substance to go through this "cycling" again..YEOWWWW...THAT!!! is a NASTY!! little problem..APPEARS that that is what is happenning to me.

Tomorrow I WAS gonna get serious and wire an ammeter in..right from the battery..ALL charge/discharge.THEN I was either gonna test one of these alternators..OR get another tested one.Put it in..run a test alternator lead to another ammeter between the alternator and battery.Bypass the charge light and REALLY go after this!!!..

THANK YOU! VERY MUCH! gentlemen..you saved me a lot of work..and answerred a VERY TOUGH question for me!...Arnold..

GRRRR..I CAREFULLY! inspected the alternator wire,ALL the way,positive bat.wire and the fuse box..I took it off to look closely EVERYTHING! seemed good!..NONE of the wires had kinks,soft spots,burns.
HOWEVER I DID! take you gentleman's advice..I ran another lead alt. to the correct side of the fuse panel..AND another lead from the other side of the panel back to the + bat.Just to MAKE SURE!
AGAIN!! 1 alternator charged for a while..quit..AGAIN I changed the alternator.AGAIN it quit.

I HAD to go back to the ORIGINAL problem..we buy the car..WHEN we get it a few days later it SQUEALED!!..the guy said he "had to change the alternator and battery" YA RIGHT! I am GUESSING that the battery he put in..it wasn't old..did hold a charge..BUT!! every now and then when I switched it it would cause the alternator to SQUEAL..I have not seen a battery do that.Yes I have seen a couple develop internal shorts..lose a cell and do that..AND toast up alternators..BUT those batteries NEVER came back to original power.This one did.Several times.

I guess that when he changed the battery..for whatever reason..he toasted alternator #1..and when it got hot..it quit..cooled..was ok.I replaced the alternator..and EXACTLLY the same thing happenned.

Today I bought ANOTHER used alternator,used another Known good battery.SO FAR..there has not been a CHIRP of squeal..EVEN with a belt that is now just about toast..I did deliberately run this battery down..OVER AND OVER..and let the alternator charge it up.EVERY TIME the alternator charged it up.This is the VERY first time in 6 months there has not been ONE chrip from the alternator..I MUST be on the right track.

SORRY..forgot..could this have been it?????...The original alternator I took off was a Canadian built one..I replaced it with a Canadian built one..the ONLY one I could find reasonablly close to me was a Japan built..the interchange and a few bone's said they are NOT interchangeable.I went to an alternator rebuilder and looked at a schematic..they use the SAME plug and wiring configuration..the wires are the same(ig,l) on the plug.,he too said they can't interchange.The bone I went to and bought it said they are they same??..AND the interchange is wrong..the ONLY difference is where they were built..he even got the plug from the car that it came from..same.The output post is vertical on the left of the alt from the psgr side on the Japan one as opposed to horizontal and on the right on the Canada one.The frame bracket seemed a little bigger for the Canadian..TINY BIT..hey..bolted right up..works.I can't see that I have been replacing the wrong alternator?and burning it out..that was originally replaced wrong.They have the IDENTICAL wiring..I can't see any difference?? other than the physical case difference..doesn't seem to be any source of engine heat that would bother either.

Also..there was never any parasitic loss/drain on the battery/system.

My fingers are CROSSED!..

Your problem was only a loose fan belt, that was slipping when the alternator was under heavy charging stress [causing your battery to drain down]. If you run the lights and heater fan motor at the same time, that puts a lot of stress on the alternator belt [25 amp drain], so if you hear a squeal, then replace or tighten the belt. Thats' were the squeal was coming from. GEO alternators require a tight and NEW fan belt every year, or they'll start slipping.

Also, don't forget to clean and tighten down the HOT terminal NUT for a good connection to the battery, another cause of poor charging to the battery.

Right.Loose fan belt.I guess that is WHY after it FIRST started squealing..I CHECKED the belt tightness..THEN took it off to make sure it wasn't glazed/worn..THEN checked the alignment of the pulleys.THEN determined it wasn't the pumpTHEN replaced the belt anyway.THEN checked it for a difference in squealing under ALL conditions..no difference.THEN changed the alternator and had the squeal GO AWAY.THEN had the squeal come back...THEN changed the battery and had the squeal go away.THEN changed the alternators about 3 more times wtih NO squealing.THEN changed the load carrying cables.THEN changed the alternator one more time.With THIS latest alternator AND a different battery AND more load carrying alternator and battery wiring..AND the fact that this is the FIRST time!! that I have NOT heard squealing!!AND HAD CONTINUOUS charging..under load..light/heavy EVEN after REPEATEDLLY running the battery down YES by leaving the lights on high and the heater on high..THEN starting the car and recharging the battery WITH THOSE accessories STILL turned on.I suppose that YOU could put the battery sitting here with the intermittent short back in and ANY of the 3 dead alternators here back in and get them to charge and not squeal bY "ADJUSTING"the belt properly.Did you read/understand any of the posts?You may be SHOCKED to hear of bearings squealing..one day when you're tightening a belt WITHOUT a belt tensioning gauge..you may overtighten a belt..place too much stress on either the w.pump or the alt. bearing..and then hear a "squealing" later on after you''ve burned out the bearing.Ya..just adjust the belt..then it will go away.