climate control system

I have a 95 Park Ave with a dual electronic climate control system, sometimes (very intermittant) it will blow out ice cold from one side and hot from the other. When this happens the set temperature blinks. My owners manual says when that happens to bring it to a service center. Does anyone have any ideas/suggestions?

Maybe you should just bring it to the dealer. They have the right equipment to check all that HVAC stuff.

spoken like someone with more money than time...

actually, I run a repair shop so in essense, I am the "dealer"...just at a much reduced labor rate. I haven't had to deal with this issue yet and instead of replacing components (one that lists for $631, the culprit I suspect, and another that lists for $526) I thought I would do a little research first and try to learn something...

This exact problem actually started occurring on my Park Avenue about a month ago. I suspected it was the climate control module, as well, so I bought one and installed it... same problem. So I'm in the same boat as you, but I assure you that it's not the module... which is bad news since you can get a decent module from a junk yard for $50 or possibly less.

dkrace67,

dont go to a dealer for nothing,

IF i am right, and this should work on yours as well..

on the climat control, you push OFF and WARM at the same time for about 2-3 seconds.. it should go into trouble shoot mode and give you an error code , just like thre EFI with the "check engine light" blinking.. exept it will REALLY displays a code IF there is something wrong.. if it'displays 00 then it does not detect anything OR you have no problems there

deadring

deadring,

Thanks! I'll do that tonight. My friend has the factory manuals for his '96 Riv that has a similar climate control system. The error codes are listed in it so if your technique pops them up I'm set.
We also were going to try plugging our Snap On scan tool into the OBD port but I'm not sure the climate controls will come up in the diagnostics...

I'll keep you "posted" (pun intended, unfortunately...so sorry)

Thanks for the suggestion, deadring. I just tried the technique of pushing OFF and WARM at the same time, but it didn't put it into troubleshoot mode. It didn't display 00 either. Any other suggestions, I'm all ears.

Exactly, I couldn't get it into troubleshoot mode either, and (unfortunately) my scan tool doesn't allow me access to the climate control systems computer (or subsequent codes).
I was playing around with it a bit and I noticed that upon power up (just turn the key on, not necessarily starting the vehicle) the motor for the driver/passenger damper appears to go through a "homing" routine. Strange thing is, once it reaches full travel in one direction, it continues to try and move. Like it's driving itself in the same direction because it doesn't know it's reached the end of travel. I physically move the damper back a bit and it continues in that same direction, right back to the limit. After several times of this routine, it finally stopped and went back the other direction to that limit and continued to move against that limit. Finally, after a minute or so, it gave up and returned to a central position for what I can only assume is the preset temperature. After all that, it appeared to operate normally (i.e. - I could set the temp control and it would move accordingly). But, once I cycled power, the same behavior returned. The motor will continue to drive itself all the way to one end of travel, disregarding the preset temperature (which I left at around 72).

ok,

maybe i didn't explained it right.. it lacked detalis i must admit

here is the REAL way taken from another post in the forum

This method uses several common commands in all stages of the "menus" :
"HI" = proceed forward
"LO" = move backward
"WARM" = up
"COOL" = down
"OFF" = back one level
"AUTO" = exit ECC diagnostics/override function.

1) With the key in "run"
2) Press"off" and "warm" at the same time on the control head.
3) First, it will check all the segments.
4) Then codes will display.
"00" idicates that no codes are present. A "1" prefix indicates
that the code is history, not current.
5) There are too many codes to list, but look for a 41 or 141 - this is
the passenger side air mix actuator circuit. If this code is present, you
can narrow your diagnostics down considerably.

That's where the factory service manuals come in handy. Here's what the codes mean:


DTC Description
DTC 10/110 Ambient Temperature Sensor CKT Open or Shorted
DTC 13/113 In-Vehicle Temperature Sensor CKT Open or Shorted
DTC 15/115 LH Solar Sensor Circuit Open or Shorted
DTC 35/135 E & C Data Line Failure With Heater and A/C Control Assembly
DTC 38/138 Serial Data Line Failure With PCM
DTC 40/140 Driver Air Mix Motor CKT Open or Shorted, or Not Calibrated
DTC 48/148 Long Term Freon Loss
DTC 52/152 Keep Alive Memory Lost: Sets With Battery Disconnected
DTC 66/166 Low Freon

NOTE: A number 1 prefix on any diagnostic trouble code indicates a history DTC.

This indicates no freon (more than likely a leak somewhere in the system), and a faulty calibration of an air mixer. The 52 will set if the battery is disconnected and is no big deal. You will need to find and correct the reason for no freon before you can procede.

from who ever made this post originally i thank him and i only quoted his words because someone needed it.... i claim no credit for it neither :P


hopes this helps guys, i confirm it works on my PA 92 and i'ves seen it work on 93 and even higher i believe.

sorry again for misinforming you guys

Deadring

deadman,
Thanks for the additional info. Unfortunately, with the key in run, pressing off and warm at the same time did not display any codes. The only thing that happened was (after several attempts) the outside temperature started blinking (45, not one of the codes listed on your menu).

kaspr,
Exactly which unit did you replace? The head unit (with the buttons on it) or the module under the dash (kind of above the whole heating assembly etc.)? I am wondering if I should try replacing the motor/actuator unit that controls the passenger side temp. Maybe it has indeed "lost it's bearings" or position. Perhaps there is an encoder or indicator of some sort inside that is intermittent or slipping.

i dont see why the codes don't dispaly... did you press them long enough? it does take a few seconds..and you do have to press them at the SAME time..

deadring

I don't know why they didn't display either. I held them for about 10-15 seconds, and I tried various other combinations (i.e. - off and cold, off and auto, auto and warm etc. etc.)...trust me, I WANTED that to work, bad! I wonder if there is just too great a difference between a '95 and a '92. You wouldn't think so, but I've seen stranger things. My friend (who gave me a hard time in this thread - see 96Rivman) has the same system in his Riv, so I think I'll have him try it tonight. Perhaps the reason it doesn't work is because the module has failed...that's another possibility I guess.

well me i do it with the engine running and i press on OFF and WARM at the same time for about 5 seconds or so.. and then it all lights up for a 1 second, then shows codes.. well mine shows 00 flashing, saying that there are no codes


maybe there is another way on the 95+ models..

maybe someone else can jump in and help out?

anyone?

deadring

I also have a 95 PA with Climate Control problem. The outside temperature indication has been slowly increasing over the last few weeks to a high today of 118 degrees F. Its been in the fifties all week! After reading your posts. I tried to get the error codes to no avail. I have no idea(and can't find) the locations of the sun and exterior temperature sensors to inspect, nor can I aquire the codes much like yourself, to troubleshoot.

cheapertofixit, well thats an easy fix or easy finding the source of the problem.

look at your outside temp sensor.. pop open the hood and look BELOW IN FRONT of the radiator- AC radiator assembly.. i got a 92 and if you look down where th both rads are, you should see a black cable to which there a small plug on it with a little black sensor.. thats a outside temp sensor..you can't miss it. if you look at your radiator, i'ts center bottom ...theres a gutter like thing there where it hangs.


as for you other guys, i dont what i can say.. maybe ask Tman or parkavenue chrome , they seem to know alot about PA's

deadring

Thanks for all the info deadring, but my guess guess as to why it's not working for the '95+ PA's is because the equipment is different. Here's a link to what my climate control system looks like: http://www.ebizautos.com/leadmax/viewer.cfm?iid=479589&pid=32 - As to your question dkrace, I replaced the head unit with the buttons; exactly what is that other module you were talking about? I see there being 2 POSSIBILITIES as to what the problem is: either it's this module you're talking about, or it's the actuator for the passenger side temp. I've done some looking around at other threads on this site, and I've found that often people have said that the problem was the actuator. One guy even listed the GM part number. Assuming that it's the same part that we're having problems with, it's part #16141822 and you can get it from GM Parts Direct for like $35 including shipping. In another post Flatrater (a GM master mechanic) said that the problem in these situations is usually #1 the programmer, and #2 the actuators. I'm thinking it's the actuator for the passenger blend door, but don't know for sure. I'll keep y'all posted.

Hope this helps!

you're right, it does not look like mine at all.. but if the pre-95 had a way to get out the codes surely yours must as well.

anyway, one thing you can do.. RE-start a thread and put "95 AC codes how to?" in the title.. someone somewhere must have gotten out the codes or know how!


35$ for an actuator?? geez i thought more like 135 for it LOL.. thats not so bad after all...

part are alot cheper than imports.. imagine what this actuator would cost on a nissan maxima or such..

im' very surprised by the cost of the parts..


deadring

FYI,
Did some research over the weekend. The only way to retrieve codes on the 95 PA is with a Tech 1 scan tool. I don't have one, I'm assuming that's a GM thing. I had to give up and send it to a dealer. Thanks for the help though. I really appreciate it, better luck next time I guess.

fwiw - I have a 94 PA Ultra and am unable to retrieve codes using the suggestion above. From what I have learned the late 94 and early 95 models had a revised OBD-I diagnotics software which was obviously prior to OBD-II. I'm guessing that this implementation of OBD is what is preventing us from accessing the codes.

dkrace - I'd be interested in what your dealership had to offer on the issue.

Steve

Yeah by all means let us know. I'm eager to find out especially since it sounds like we have the exact same problem. I'm currently ordering a new actuator, as I think that is bad. The programmer might be bad as well, so I'm going to be looking for one at a junk yard. I'll keep you posted.

kaspr

thanx for the info deadring, replaced the sensor for eighteen bucks. first repair in eighteen months. I LIKE THIS CAR. Now only if I can get the ghost exorcised that makes it stall mysteriously in full idle, once every week or so, I'll call it the best used car I ever bought.

I bought a new passenger air mix actuator from GM Parts Direct for $36 (including shipping), and that fixed the problem. It seems the programmer was sensing that the actuator had gone bad, and therefore caused the display to blink to tell me that I had something to fix. So the programmer is fine. Sure beats spending who knows how much at a dealer.

kaspr

i dont think a new passenger air mix actuator form a 94 nissan maxima costs 36$ :)

thats is real cheap :) i was a bit scared of this thing going wrong...and paying the price for it..

The hot one side cold the other has happened a few times to me. With the AC on for whatever reason I would raise temp a bit then heat would blow from rt side dash vents. It was a combination of things that made it happen. Just a quirk,I think. Hope its not a sign of things to come.

i had the same problem with my 95 park ave. It turned out that the blend door actuator was bad.

changed it and eveything was fine. search for my name in the list and you can probably still find my original post.

I've got same climate control issue on my '96 PA SC, I'll try some of the advice from you guys.
However, what about the reason for this problem? Looks to me it's somehow related to disconnecting battery when having issues with that or alternator. That's another mystery of my PA: dead battery even after having changed battery as well as alternator. Anyway could be the cause of climate control bug.

when I first saw my problem, I was trying like a madman to blame something other than the $400 (or is it $600) controller. It was a logical conclusion that changing the battery had something to do with it because it happened right at the same time. But after seeing that the gear had broken inside the blend door actuator, I can't see how they two were related.

what was happening to me was the controller was trying to control the position of the blend door. the blend door actuator has a feedback signal to tell the controller its position. apparently, when the computor tells it to move, and then it doesnt sense the movement, it flags a fault by flashing the display.

all i know for sure is that I could manually move my actuator by hand because there was a gear in there that was split. it shouldnt be moveable because it is geared to a motor.

How about this?

On my '97 PA, my Climate Control screen is off, and sometimes, rarely turns on. All the buttons (ie, warm, cold, recic, fan, auto..etc) work well, however I'cant see anything on the display. I went to the dealer, they told me i have to change the whole module, which is about 900CAD (only for the part) and about 2 hours of labour.

thoughts on this?

hey papiot, i know it's not cheap playin' with accessories but here's an alternative

check it out on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7916040469&category=33545&sspagename=WD1V

im not seller nor do i know him, but at 159 it's alot cheaper :)

deadring

Exactly, I couldn't get it into troubleshoot mode either, and (unfortunately) my scan tool doesn't allow me access to the climate control systems computer (or subsequent codes).
I was playing around with it a bit and I noticed that upon power up (just turn the key on, not necessarily starting the vehicle) the motor for the driver/passenger damper appears to go through a "homing" routine. Strange thing is, once it reaches full travel in one direction, it continues to try and move. Like it's driving itself in the same direction because it doesn't know it's reached the end of travel. I physically move the damper back a bit and it continues in that same direction, right back to the limit. After several times of this routine, it finally stopped and went back the other direction to that limit and continued to move against that limit. Finally, after a minute or so, it gave up and returned to a central position for what I can only assume is the preset temperature. After all that, it appeared to operate normally (i.e. - I could set the temp control and it would move accordingly). But, once I cycled power, the same behavior returned. The motor will continue to drive itself all the way to one end of travel, disregarding the preset temperature (which I left at around 72).
Hopefully someone is still reading this thread, if so, can some one explain what code 38 means in real english. I don't know what "serial data line failure with PCM" means. Thanks.

The problem is your actuator, it is under the dash depending which side. The passanger side is under the glove box. It looks like a lop sided box with one end not stright. The drivers side is under the radio. If you relpace it, it might work but if it doesn't then just flip the door manually and it will work for now, until you replace your A/C programmer.

Been reading this subject. Son has similiar problems with his heat after episode of dead battery on 96
bonnebille. Unfortunately, the controls to check for codes are different than mentioned. His has Mode/Auto, Temp, Off, AC, Recurc, etc. How can I check for codes? jcolcla

Been reading this subject. Son has similiar problems with his heat after episode of dead battery on 96
bonnebille. Unfortunately, the controls to check for codes are different than mentioned. His has Mode/Auto, Temp, Off, AC, Recurc, etc. How can I check for codes? jcolclaWelcome to AF, unfortunately, you posted in the wrong forum (Buick) and this particular post is 5+-yrs old; so therefore, we suggest you start a new thread in the Pontiac BONNEVILLE forum with your questions, with a link to this post if so desired.