NEWB with questions

Hi, I just recently discovered that i have a deep interest in everything that has anything to do with cars.

Up til recently I've really only researched japanese sports cars and the like.

So here is my newbish question: What is the ultimate muscle car?
Better yet, someone complete this analogy for me:
Nissan Skyline is to sports cars as ____ is to muscle cars.

Thanks a lot.

Also, don't flame me for asking this.... but what is that big thing sticking out of the hood of the charger in The Fast and the Furious?

So here is my newbish question: What is the ultimate muscle car?


Wow, thats like asking 'who is the worlds most attractive woman'?
It's a very subjective question, and there is no one single answer.

Some muscle cars are better because they are faster, like the Chrysler Hemi's,
Some are better because they were made in larger numbers, and, while they may be a bit slower, are much more affordable and have much better parts availability, like the small block Chevy Chevelles and Camaros.
Some had an exceptional overall package of good performance, excellent marketing and promotion and image, like to Pontiac GTO.

I would suggest just read through some threads found here. The argument about the best muscle car pops up in atl least a couple of dozen threads.

Thanks.

So what is that thing sticking out of the charger's hood in TFTF?

A blower/supercharger I think there are only two types a scerw type like in TFTF and they other look like half a turbo, but both are belt driven.

Hi, I just recently discovered that i have a deep interest in everything that has anything to do with cars.

Up til recently I've really only researched japanese sports cars and the like.

So here is my newbish question: What is the ultimate muscle car?
The archetypical muscle car(light weight, full size, most powerful motor, lowest price) would be the 1968 Hemi Road Runner with a 4-speed manual trans.


Also, don't flame me for asking this.... but what is that big thing sticking out of the hood of the charger in The Fast and the Furious?

It was actually a piece of plastic riveted to the hood. :loser: It was supposed to represent an 8-71 Roots-type supercharger.

Nissan Skyline is to sports cars as ____ is to muscle cars.

And what exactly makes a Nissan Skyline the standard by which sports cars are judged? What puts it above the Mazda RX-7 Mk. III, the Porsche 911, the Chevrolet Corvette, or the Panoz Esperante? Or the Caterham 7 for that matter?

While the statement about the '68 Road Runner may have been true in '68, they are NOT "lowest price". In today's market, they are among the most expensive non-exotic cars on the planet. Expect to pay more than $100K for one, IF you find one for sale.
The Chevelle SS (the only Chevelle "muscle car") is the most plentiful. The GTO is the most popular (not just with me, but according to the aftermarket companies supplying restoration parts) . The Fords and Chryslers are harder to find (attrition), and less desireable unless you want a specific model.
The F-bodies (Firebird and Camaro), while not literally muscle cars, fall into the category of good street performers.
Nissan Skyline is "pie in the sky". Rare as hell and expensive. Why would it be considered a better sports car than Corvette? I know, that question is redundant... There are many more parameters to measure the quality and performance of a given car, besides 1/4 mile or top-end speed . A DATSUN??? I don't think so...

Hmmmm...Datsun's early Z car (at least the 240Z) is known as one of the 10 cars that helped change automotive history (as in small, economical, nice performing cars); there's one from 1970 sitting in my wife's parking spot. The early Datsun (not tagged as Nissan) Skyline, while in my opinion, very ugly, still held their own with races from other small sized cars, though I doubt anyone (unless you actually own a Skyline) would consider it to be the ultimate sports car. My wife would never consider her little Z to be a muscle car, or even a racing car, but she's still a fan of the early sports cars. Too bad the Datsun name has such bad connotations.

And the early Camaros/Firebirds are yes - literally muscle cars (well, maybe not the 6 cyl ones). My 1st gen Camaro which originally came with a big block, and has been upgraded, is more than a street car.

I'm far from a car expert, though I'm learning lots, specially from sites like this one, but shouldn't there be 'types' of muscle cars, or to narrow the definition of muscle car to a particular era? As I understand it so far, the "golden age" of the muscle car was in the 70s, where pretty much every American carmaker had at least one car which would fit the category of muscle. As much as I like the newer Camaros and Mustangs even I wouldn't consider them to be muscle cars - high performance cars, definitely, but not muscle.

BTW, my opinion of the ultimate sports car wouldn't be a Skyline (snort - puhleeZ!!) - I choose Corvette - the older ones!

Not wishing to start any flames, just inputting my admitted limited opinion.

1) '68 Hemi RR's in #1 condition are going for $40-60 thousand dollars.

2) Corvettes, Camaros, and Firebirds are not muscle cars.

3) Chevelles are slow in all configurations.

4) The muscle car era ended in 1971 and the corpse was in the ground by 1974. The height of the muscle car era was 1968 to 1971. Pollution controls and the gas crisis ended it.

First gen big block V8 Camaros ('67-'69) ARE muscle cars. Corvette owners themselves don't consider their cars to be muscle, but rather sports, and while the Road Runner in top condition can fetch that high a price, so can many other cars (as in non-Road Runner) that are also considered, in your opinion, non-muscle.

There should still be a specific category for what would be considered muscle, and doesn't mean how it came out of the factory over thirty years ago, but rather how it looks and sounds and performs now. Does you car look and sound and have the same level of work under the hood and beneath the car as when it was born in '68? BTW, one of the websites catering to your car lists the Road Runner as being a COMPACT CAR - look - http://hem.passagen.se/nubbis4/ and part of the front page: When the Plymouth Road Runner was introduced, it was on the " B-Body." It was lighter then the Cuda and the Challenger! And it was a compact car!......"

We ALL have muscle cars, otherwise we're all just wasting our time on this site. In the most basic sense, muscle cars by their definition have large, powerful engines (my 'non-muscle', as you put it '69 Camaro has a late model blueprinted 454ci, competition Hooker headers, blah blah blah...it's f&^%^^ a cream in the pants engine), beautiful classic lines (never have a problem finding it in a parking lot filled with similar looking coupes), and have a deep, throaty roar that makes our cars stand out from the newer high-preformance cars out there.

Definitely not planning to start a flame war...

Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, Cudas, are pony cars. They were designed to be sportier than their bigger stable mates. Muscle cars are over-powered versions of full sized 2-door passenger cars. GTOs, Chevelles, Road Runners, Coronet RT's, SCJ Torinos are Muscle cars.

The Road Runner was the 2nd smallest of the 4 sizes of car that Chrysler built in the 60s.

A-bodies(Darts, Valiants, Barracudas) were the smallest.

B-bodies(Chargers, Belvederes, Satellites)

C-bodies(Polaras, Furys, 300 cars)

Y-bodies(Chrysler Imperials) were the biggest. They are generally banned from demolition derbys because their structural strength and weight.

Your Camaro may be fast, but so are Hemi-powered street rods. Being fast and being old aren't the qualifications for being a muscle car.

And there are no modern muscle cars. The last one that comes to mind were the 85 thru 87 Grand Nationals.

And your Swedish Mopar expert is smoking crack. B-bodies were neither lighter than the A-body Barracuda or the E-body Cudas or Challengers. He also thinks "mascara"used the Dodge Daytona and Plymouth Superbird to win a lot of races. lol.

Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, Cudas, are pony cars. They were designed to be sportier than their bigger stable mates. Muscle cars are over-powered versions of full sized 2-door passenger cars. GTOs, Chevelles, Road Runners, Coronet RT's, SCJ Torinos are Muscle cars.

Those were all intermediates. Bonnevilles, Caprices, Impalas, Furys (Furies?), and Monacos were "full-sized" cars. I don't remember what the big Ford was called; the LTD was later on IIRC. (BTW, wasn't the Super Bee a muscle car?)

The Ford was the Galaxy. And yes, "muscle car" is an intermediate. I find it humorous that anyone wants to ARGUE over the definition. Perception and opinion do not qualify as "definition". Vernacular overrides nomenclature. We see it all the time...
I thought the Hemi cars were bringing more money than most muscle cars. If $60K is all they're bringing, I guess I was wrong. I know you can't TOUCH a '70 Judge in #1 condition, for that. And a '65 TriPower car? Faggettaboutit.....
I would have to disagree that Chevelles are slow in "all configuratons". I've seen some NASTY BB cars over the years. The LS6 car was the fastest muscle car in the recent "shootout". Only the most valuable and "exotic" pony car (Boss 429) beat it. I think, had they done the maintainence and repair to the Challenger, it would have been right there, but also a pony car. A Ram AIr IV Judge from 1970 would have fared much better, too (more power, better handling package than the '69).