Engine codes

My car is a 69 Pontiac Firebird. I've had it for 16 years. The engine was rebuilt (bored/new pistons) about 5 years ago. I've been having trouble with it overheating since it was rebuilt. It never overheated before that. I've tried everything, electric fan, oil cooler, etc. I talked to a guy that thinks it might be improper valve adjustment. He came over to help me, and he wanted to verify that it's the original engine (350). The code stamped on the front of the block is "YE". The last number stamped under the distributor is "9". The number stamped between the 2 freeze plug is "350". What is the most reliable site to go to find this kind of information? I've seen some variations from site to site. Any help is appreciated.

did u replace the radiator at any time or the hoses, and was the block moved or left in the car during the rebuild?

http://www.classicfirebird.com/1969/69options.html

Check out this site but YE- is a 265 Horsepower 2Bl powerglide with 3 speed. Good Luck and I agree with your friend if sounds more like a Improper fuel mixture than cooling system problem, Most likely your running lean which would cause higher temp's and possible over heating issues. Let us know how it turns out.
John

did u replace the radiator at any time or the hoses, and was the block moved or left in the car during the rebuild?

Yes. It has a new 4-core. I took the engine out and took it to the guy that rebuilt it.

http://www.classicfirebird.com/1969/69options.html

Check out this site but YE- is a 265 Horsepower 2Bl powerglide with 3 speed. Good Luck and I agree with your friend if sounds more like a Improper fuel mixture than cooling system problem, Most likely your running lean which would cause higher temp's and possible over heating issues. Let us know how it turns out.
John

Ya, I see there is a YE code for 69. This one guy, that's supposed to be a GTO expert, keeps telling me it's not the original engine. He says it's a 400 out of a 68. I don't think so because "350" is stamped between the freeze plugs. What do you think?

If its stamped with a YE(which is a 350 code) and the block itself says 350 I wouldn't doubt it was a 350 out of a 69 Firebird.

lol i think hes clueless. u can tell the difference from a bigblock and a smallblock just by looking at it. (i know from experence.) and if you replaced the radiator then its prob not a cooling system problem... unless theres a clog in the hose. its tough to troubleshoot the old cars because the new ones will talk back to u and tell u whats wrong, lol. John, couldn't running rich cause it too? mine runs extreamly rich and it really gets hot in the summer. i dont think its timing because u could feel it if the timing was off. go with formula and adjust the fuel mixture. i have hunches that your clutch fan might be stuck, or if its an electric fan, there might be a short in the wire.

Leaner fuel mixture's generate higher temp's than richer mixture's. Most car's running rich mixture's may get horrible MPG and excess smoke but will not create a over heating issue.

lol no fair! i have no choice, the 455 wont run on a lean mixture, it has to have alot of gas in it to mix with the increased ammount of air being forced in

lol i think hes clueless. u can tell the difference from a bigblock and a smallblock just by looking at it. (i know from experence.) and if you replaced the radiator then its prob not a cooling system problem... unless theres a clog in the hose. its tough to troubleshoot the old cars because the new ones will talk back to u and tell u whats wrong, lol. John, couldn't running rich cause it too? mine runs extreamly rich and it really gets hot in the summer. i dont think its timing because u could feel it if the timing was off. go with formula and adjust the fuel mixture. i have hunches that your clutch fan might be stuck, or if its an electric fan, there might be a short in the wire.

I know it's not the ignition timing, because I've experimented with that. I'll experiment by adjusting the 2 mixture screws (out), like you suggest. If it doesn't improve, I'll try adjusting the valves. I think it has to be that, or the guy didn't punch out some of the head gasket holes. This is not a usual kind of overheating. It runs 200+ going 80mph down the freeway. I have a flex fan. My clutch fan broke. I also have an electric fan that runs all the time. This heating problem has been going on for 5 years, but I haven't looked into it this far because I only live 3 miles from work, so the overheating isn't a daily occurence. Thank you both for replying so soon. I should have posted here earlier.

No Problem, Welcome to the Forum and let us know how it turns out.
John

If its stamped with a YE(which is a 350 code) and the block itself says 350 I wouldn't doubt it was a 350 out of a 69 Firebird.

There are other Pontiacs with the "YE" engine code, but I agree with you that mine's probably not one of them. The two others I found with "YE" are 1968 400 and 1971 455.

If you want to get technical the 400 block is based off the 350 with longer stroke crank and my 350 LT1 is stamped with 327 but what would make someone believe that all the factors that you have that someone not only tried to trick you by using a 400 block but went through the trouble of trying to match engine factors. Its not very likely.

THERE IS NO SMALL BLOCK OR BIG BLOCK PONTIAC!!!!! And yes it is a 69 350. What thermostat are you running and do you have a fan shroud? The performance early birds all had a filler panel on the radiator core support and shrouds. It is a must to run a fan shroud. I run 160 stats in all my Birds and on the hottest days ,sitting in traffic ,it never reaches over 175 degs. This even includes my 12 second Firebird.

I've tried different thermostats, and no thermostat. It doesn't make much difference. I have the original fan shroud with a flex fan. I also have an electric fan on the inside of the radiator to pull air through.

No thermostat is not a good idea. Without one the water has no restriction and will pass through the radiator too fast without letting the radiator dissipate the heat. What carb and intake do you have. And what is the engine set up. Remember that the harder the engine has to work to disperse the exhaust out, the hotter it will run. I have moved my timing around and it never fluctuates the temperature. I would suggest richening up the carb and running a good exhaust to start. there is also a good post on Performance years about the water pump intermediate plate that is too far from the water pump impellers and with a bit of hammering to get it closer to the impellers the cooler your car will run. There have been temp readings 20 degs cooler with this modification. I will try to find the link and post it. Its really good info and has solved many Pontiac heating issues. I personally have never had them but I know alot of people who have.

Here is the link that will answer all your questions and hopefully help you with your heating problems!!!! :smokin: :biggrin: :bigthumb:

http://forums.performanceyears.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7286011111&f=3396006811&m=958104692

Here is the link that will answer all your questions and hopefully help you with your heating problems!!!! :smokin: :biggrin: :bigthumb:

http://forums.performanceyears.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7286011111&f=3396006811&m=958104692

I have a thermostat in it.

That posts on that site you directed me to are amazing. The symptoms the first guy lists are exactly like mine. Thanks a lot. I'll definitely be
pulling it off Saturday.

damn sixt8, your good. I just read that link too and it does sound exactly like his first post. I thought for sure it was a A/F mixture problem.

I have read every hot rod magazine that has come out since 1976. I have 11 subscriptions with two that are dedicated to Pontiacs. 2 that are dedicated to guitars, two that are dedicated to Harleys and then the other 5 are Hot Rod, Car Craft, and Hot Rodding and Hemmings Muscle Car and Hemmings Motor news.I frequent the Pontiac sites at least twice a day. My favorite are
http://www.classicalpontiac.com/ http://members.boardhost.com/boyleworks/index.html?1032402509 http://forums.performanceyears.com/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=7286011111
I am a total motor head and always have been. This is why my $999 400 thats 14 years old is still kicking butt even on crappy ARCO gas. Mid 12 seconds in the 1/4. and never gets over 170 degs . Even sitting in 90 deg traffic for hours. It sounds unreal and revs up like a small block chevy. I retain knowledge that is helpfull and hope I can pass on anything that can help fellow Pontiac enthusiasts. Thanks for the compliment!!

No problem, I'm glad we have a couple of other gear heads around here now, Alot of these problems are stumping me lately. Its good you retain what you read cause I don't think I would have thought of that. Well glad to have you here.
John

I get stumped some times ,especially with the newer computerized cars. Our GTA trans Am Convert 350 has a starting problem. It will always start in the morning or after sitting for a couple hours. But when you drive it for a short distance or long, it may start or it may not. You turn the key and the gauges move but nothing. If you get a jump from a running car it fires right up. Or if you let it sit for an hour it will start. So its not the battery. I have replaced it anyway. I figure there is a relay or a connection that when it gets warm, it creates resistance and stops making contact . This is why when you get a jump from a running engine(13.8-14.4 it makes the contact and then fires up. I replaced the ignition, starter enable relay, starter, solenoid, neutral saftey switch, taken apart the fuse block connection through the fire wall and cleaned, replaced the ignition with a new one and replaced the Vat keys.Checked all grounds. I am stumped. This is on an L98 Tune port injected engine. There are no codes or anything that says there is a problem. I just got an RV in February and it kept pulling a coolant temp sensor code. I replaced the sensor 3 times, had a retired Ford guy work on it for 8 hours, had a ASA certified mechanic work on it for two days and I worked on it for 3 months!!!!! I finally got some info from a guy in Canada about the voltage signal to the sensor, it should be the same as the MAT sensor since it comes from the same signal from the computer. The voltage at the Mat = 4.78 Volts, at the coolant sensor it was 8.8 volts. So after having this info ,it took 15 minutes to find the problem. Corrosion at a connector under the chassis. I was told by many people that it was the computer and why not spent the $350 !!! Now anyone that says that a new car is easier to work on does not understand the compexity of the new systems. Sure they tell you a code sometimes but it does not tell you where the problem starts or ends. This is why it costs so much to work on new cars. The mechanics have to do replace and see what happens, then replace another part and see what happens......I had low vacume on the RV, now what caused it, low vacume creates a rich condition since the Map sensor operates on vacume, a rich condition causes low vacume. Hmmmmm.... Turns out to be a bad fuel pressure regulator. But first the easy things get replaced at a higher price. Older cars are simple compared to the new ones. Gas, Spark.(Simpified)

Wow I think that is the longest post I ever decided to read. But yeah even though I love everything new cause it will basically tell you whats wrong with it when hooked upto a computer the old school cars where way easier to work on.

The key word is "basically". The old cars were not as finicky as they relied on one thing for fuel management and one thing for spark. The new cars will not tell you alot but will tell you some. I have scanners for my cars and trucks but like I say, they only tell you a small part of the puzzle. With a new car, the fuel management is controlled by the TP sensor,O2 sensor,Map sensor, Mat sensor, injector pulse and computer to sort it all out. In the days of old the fuel was managed by jetting that cannot change unless clogged and vacume from the engine sucking through the carb. I had a discussion on another board about how expensive it was to performance out a newer car. Old cars, you can change every aspect in fuel for about $400. This is a new intake ,carb and pump and will take about 3 to 4 hours to do. On a newer car, you have injectors that will be a minimum of $300, new pump that is about $200, an intake is about $400 and then a throttle body for about $500, then a computer recalibration which is about $400. Then the labor is about 3 days if everything goes good but if anything is off then the time will just keep adding up.... I do like the way you can monitor the engine by hooking up to the diagnostic port but the old way, its just gauges. http://img27.exs.cx/img27/8281/P1020258JPG2.jpg

damn sixt8, your good. I just read that link too and it does sound exactly like his first post. I thought for sure it was a A/F mixture problem.

I replaced the water pump Saturday. I pounded on the plate and got it as close to the impeller as I could. I haven't been able to drive it much since, but I think it probably got me 20-25 degrees. I'll report back after I have a chance to drive it more. Thanks for the help.

No problem, Keep us updated. Glad somone figured it out for ya.
John

sixt8bird has some NICE looking cars! And he know's what he's talking about when it comes to Pontiac engines. FormulaLT1, I think you've mixed Pontiacs and Chevys together. The 400 Pontiac has the SAME stroke as a 350 Pontiac (3.75"). The bore is the difference. 350 Chevy has a 4" bore and 3.48" stroke, as opposed to 400 Chevy's 4.125" bore and 3.75" stroke. Don't feel bad. We get this a lot... And savagewolf, there are NO big block OR small block Pontiacs, as sixt8bird has already pointed out. They are ALL "Pontiacs" (265 and 301 don't count...).

Thanks for correcting me MrPbody. Your absoluty right I did do just that but I don't feel bad cause I've been familiar with my dumb assidness on certain subjects for sometime now and First/Second Gen Firebirds are one of those. But just glad we have some member's like yourself and sixt8bird who know your sh*t. Also those cars are real nice sixt8 but is there anyway you can crop and make the image smaller. If you need help let me know and I would be glad to edit the pic for you. Many thanks guys.
John

Thanks for the compliments guys. Anything that I can do to help other Pontiac enthusiasts keep it alive!!! There are so many people missinformed about Pontiacs and rip out the Pontiac engine and put in a Chevy. They say its cheaper? But if you figure how much it cost to build a big block Chevy vs a Pontiac, its a wash and I can tell you that my little 400 has smoked so many Big blocks and I am into this enging cheap. Small blocks dont stand a chance with the Pontiac torque. Mr P body, I have read almost every post from you on other sites and have always respected your input and knowledge with Pontiacs. I feel privilaged to have you say I know Pontiacs. I guess I do but I am a back yard garage type guy. I cant afford the expensive stuff so I make my own things or do some horse trading to work up to better products. Pontiacs can put out some of the cheapest HP/torque out of most any engines. My 400 is thrown together for $999 and another $300 into the heads (non ported)and do mid 12s with a car that is set up more for slolum racing with a 1 1/4" sway bar and 7/8 rear . It also has 1979 WS6 rear springs and a disc brake rear end out of a Trans Am that I figured out how to fit it myself and did the mods to make it work,it also KYB gas shocks with poly urethane bushings through out. Talk about a slid riding car. I show people how stiff the suspension is by jumping up and landing my fat A$$ onto the fender and the car doesnt even move up or down. It is solid!! Yet the way it is set up I actually have got a 1.67 0-60 ft time with car in all street trim. I have actually done the disc brake Trans Am conversion for alot of my Firebird club friends. I think I have done 8 total. I do alot for the locals here for free just to help them out and I think this is what is missing in todays life. Everyone wants to make a big buck even from thier friends? Anyway Keep cool, Six.

I just sat at a hamburger joint drive thru for 10 minutes with it idling, and it stayed just below 200 degrees. I think it would have been above 220 before the water pump replacement.

What stat are you using now?

I think it's a 160. I've had different ones in there.

I also didn't put the electric fan back on.
I usually had that running all the time.

I was talking to a guy at work yesterday and he said his girlfriend owns a 89 Camaro and it runs hot. He says it will get up to 220. Do you know if the water pumps in those models are the same design? Any help is appreciated.

No us 3rd and 4th Gen guys have fans tthat aren't suppose to kick on til 225+ and this is normal but if it bother them all that much they can buy a chip to have them kick on and off at lower temps.

I have an 89 GTA convertible with a 350 TPI , it ran up to 223 and then the computer turned on the fans. This is a built in safety. Turned out the plug to the fan switch on the passenger head was all screwed up. I changed the stat to a 160 and got a switch that turns on at 180 and off at 170. Now in 95 deg weather with the AC on it doesnt get above 170. It also run like a top!! It failed emissions since it will run a bit rich when this cool, but I will just disconnect the fan switch and let the computer turn the fan on at 223 again until I pass.

I don't know anything about the newer model Camaros, but I was talking to a guy at work whose girlfriend has a 89 Camaro. It's having the same type of overheating problem. I started a thread about it, and the responses are interesting. One reply says that year of Camaro does have a backing plate, which means the same modification might be possible.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=315583