God
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Pennzoil GT-R
06-30-2002, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by boingo82
Unfortunately, I doubt this debate will ever do anything but offend most or all of the parties involved. I understand why Christians would be upset with mine and others' non-belief. If you believe that a superior power created all that exists, to have others deny Him credit would be understandably upsetting. What you don't seem to understand is that our denial of a superior power is not a deliberate affront to you or your belief system. We just disagree.
What it all comes down to for me is this: You know how if you look deep down inside yourself, you know without a doubt that there is a supreme being, and He created you and everything else, etc..?? Well, when I look deep down inside myself, I just KNOW that there is no God. And maybe we're both right. Maybe you have a God and I don't.
My biggest arguments against organized religion in general are these:
1. The amount of hypocrisy demonstrated by religious followers. I've known too many people who were Sunday Christians, or Sunday Mormons, etc. They swear, steal, drink, speed, etc., but on Sunday go to church and claim to be good people.
2. That nearly every religion disagrees with every other religion. Not only do they disagree, but it seems most believe themselves to be the only "true" religion, and that followers of anything else are going to hell.
3. The idea that Satan is the root cause of evil. I don't go for this. Bad things happen, people are corruptible. A girl at my school once told a lengthy story about how she and her friends had been drinking and driving, and Satan tried to kill them by making the car run into a tree. That's not Satan. That's stupidity.
4. The fact that I've never been able to have an intelligent discussion with a religious person. They've all gotten their feelings hurt and become severely defensive. In addition, the only arguments I've heard so far are the "look around you, all this couldn't have happened by chance" (I believe it could) and "The (Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran, etc.) says so, therefore it is." Unfortunately this has no more effect on me than it would on you if I said "look here, it's all in my big book 'o' aetheism, therefore it is".
I realize that most religions encourage recruiting. I understand that it's considered your duty as followers. However, I've had many, many, many missionaries at my door, I've read the Bible, I've gone to church, and I'm not convinced. It just doesn't add up. If I'm ever ready to convert, I'll call YOU.
that is pretty much my entire opinion on religion summed up. Science has an explanation/evidence for everything. Religion is just based on a series on beliefs.
Unfortunately, I doubt this debate will ever do anything but offend most or all of the parties involved. I understand why Christians would be upset with mine and others' non-belief. If you believe that a superior power created all that exists, to have others deny Him credit would be understandably upsetting. What you don't seem to understand is that our denial of a superior power is not a deliberate affront to you or your belief system. We just disagree.
What it all comes down to for me is this: You know how if you look deep down inside yourself, you know without a doubt that there is a supreme being, and He created you and everything else, etc..?? Well, when I look deep down inside myself, I just KNOW that there is no God. And maybe we're both right. Maybe you have a God and I don't.
My biggest arguments against organized religion in general are these:
1. The amount of hypocrisy demonstrated by religious followers. I've known too many people who were Sunday Christians, or Sunday Mormons, etc. They swear, steal, drink, speed, etc., but on Sunday go to church and claim to be good people.
2. That nearly every religion disagrees with every other religion. Not only do they disagree, but it seems most believe themselves to be the only "true" religion, and that followers of anything else are going to hell.
3. The idea that Satan is the root cause of evil. I don't go for this. Bad things happen, people are corruptible. A girl at my school once told a lengthy story about how she and her friends had been drinking and driving, and Satan tried to kill them by making the car run into a tree. That's not Satan. That's stupidity.
4. The fact that I've never been able to have an intelligent discussion with a religious person. They've all gotten their feelings hurt and become severely defensive. In addition, the only arguments I've heard so far are the "look around you, all this couldn't have happened by chance" (I believe it could) and "The (Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran, etc.) says so, therefore it is." Unfortunately this has no more effect on me than it would on you if I said "look here, it's all in my big book 'o' aetheism, therefore it is".
I realize that most religions encourage recruiting. I understand that it's considered your duty as followers. However, I've had many, many, many missionaries at my door, I've read the Bible, I've gone to church, and I'm not convinced. It just doesn't add up. If I'm ever ready to convert, I'll call YOU.
that is pretty much my entire opinion on religion summed up. Science has an explanation/evidence for everything. Religion is just based on a series on beliefs.
_W_
07-23-2002, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R
that is pretty much my entire opinion on religion summed up. Science has an explanation/evidence for everything. Religion is just based on a series on beliefs.
What explanation does science have for human conciousness? For the origin of the first life on this planet?
There's alot of things that science does not touch on. the sphere of science only covers those theories which are falsifiable and fits the facts. That leaves ALOT to be explained. Only fanatical atheists think that science explains it all.
PS: If science had an explanation for everything, what is it that scientists are doing? Why are they still working when their work is supposedly finnished?
that is pretty much my entire opinion on religion summed up. Science has an explanation/evidence for everything. Religion is just based on a series on beliefs.
What explanation does science have for human conciousness? For the origin of the first life on this planet?
There's alot of things that science does not touch on. the sphere of science only covers those theories which are falsifiable and fits the facts. That leaves ALOT to be explained. Only fanatical atheists think that science explains it all.
PS: If science had an explanation for everything, what is it that scientists are doing? Why are they still working when their work is supposedly finnished?
Pennzoil GT-R
07-23-2002, 10:15 AM
humans (and all other living things) are just machines to keep the cycle of life going. As i posted earlier how everything started is the one major thing science cant explain. Scientists are still working on the answers to questions like these that they havent yet found an answer to. No matter how many discoveries we make, there always be something we havent done or found. this argument will never be settled as long as we live, as there are 2 defined sides to the argument, and neither has a really solid base to hold them above the other side.
_W_
07-23-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by boingo82
Unfortunately, I doubt this debate will ever do anything but offend most or all of the parties involved. I understand why Christians would be upset with mine and others' non-belief. If you believe that a superior power created all that exists, to have others deny Him credit would be understandably upsetting. What you don't seem to understand is that our denial of a superior power is not a deliberate affront to you or your belief system. We just disagree.
What it all comes down to for me is this: You know how if you look deep down inside yourself, you know without a doubt that there is a supreme being, and He created you and everything else, etc..?? Well, when I look deep down inside myself, I just KNOW that there is no God. And maybe we're both right. Maybe you have a God and I don't.
My biggest arguments against organized religion in general are these:
1. The amount of hypocrisy demonstrated by religious followers. I've known too many people who were Sunday Christians, or Sunday Mormons, etc. They swear, steal, drink, speed, etc., but on Sunday go to church and claim to be good people.
2. That nearly every religion disagrees with every other religion. Not only do they disagree, but it seems most believe themselves to be the only "true" religion, and that followers of anything else are going to hell.
3. The idea that Satan is the root cause of evil. I don't go for this. Bad things happen, people are corruptible. A girl at my school once told a lengthy story about how she and her friends had been drinking and driving, and Satan tried to kill them by making the car run into a tree. That's not Satan. That's stupidity.
4. The fact that I've never been able to have an intelligent discussion with a religious person. They've all gotten their feelings hurt and become severely defensive. In addition, the only arguments I've heard so far are the "look around you, all this couldn't have happened by chance" (I believe it could) and "The (Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran, etc.) says so, therefore it is." Unfortunately this has no more effect on me than it would on you if I said "look here, it's all in my big book 'o' aetheism, therefore it is".
I realize that most religions encourage recruiting. I understand that it's considered your duty as followers. However, I've had many, many, many missionaries at my door, I've read the Bible, I've gone to church, and I'm not convinced. It just doesn't add up. If I'm ever ready to convert, I'll call YOU.
I consider you unlucky. There actually are reasonable religious people, even rational christians (hey, I was one). The fact that you have yett to meet any indicates to me not that there's something wrong with most religions, but rather that there's something wrong with most people.
Most people are stupid.
Furthermore, there's alot more religions that you've been taught about at school or come across in your daily life. If you studied some of them, you might find that they actually ARE reasonable, even if most of the followers of the religions aren't. Some religions you undoubtably haven't heard of exactly because they DON'T encourage recruiting. Also, some religions are highly eclectic, and while you might consider that a reason for rejecting it, it often makes the religion compatible with most others, and avoid the "we have The Truth" syndrome in it's followers.
Unfortunately, I doubt this debate will ever do anything but offend most or all of the parties involved. I understand why Christians would be upset with mine and others' non-belief. If you believe that a superior power created all that exists, to have others deny Him credit would be understandably upsetting. What you don't seem to understand is that our denial of a superior power is not a deliberate affront to you or your belief system. We just disagree.
What it all comes down to for me is this: You know how if you look deep down inside yourself, you know without a doubt that there is a supreme being, and He created you and everything else, etc..?? Well, when I look deep down inside myself, I just KNOW that there is no God. And maybe we're both right. Maybe you have a God and I don't.
My biggest arguments against organized religion in general are these:
1. The amount of hypocrisy demonstrated by religious followers. I've known too many people who were Sunday Christians, or Sunday Mormons, etc. They swear, steal, drink, speed, etc., but on Sunday go to church and claim to be good people.
2. That nearly every religion disagrees with every other religion. Not only do they disagree, but it seems most believe themselves to be the only "true" religion, and that followers of anything else are going to hell.
3. The idea that Satan is the root cause of evil. I don't go for this. Bad things happen, people are corruptible. A girl at my school once told a lengthy story about how she and her friends had been drinking and driving, and Satan tried to kill them by making the car run into a tree. That's not Satan. That's stupidity.
4. The fact that I've never been able to have an intelligent discussion with a religious person. They've all gotten their feelings hurt and become severely defensive. In addition, the only arguments I've heard so far are the "look around you, all this couldn't have happened by chance" (I believe it could) and "The (Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran, etc.) says so, therefore it is." Unfortunately this has no more effect on me than it would on you if I said "look here, it's all in my big book 'o' aetheism, therefore it is".
I realize that most religions encourage recruiting. I understand that it's considered your duty as followers. However, I've had many, many, many missionaries at my door, I've read the Bible, I've gone to church, and I'm not convinced. It just doesn't add up. If I'm ever ready to convert, I'll call YOU.
I consider you unlucky. There actually are reasonable religious people, even rational christians (hey, I was one). The fact that you have yett to meet any indicates to me not that there's something wrong with most religions, but rather that there's something wrong with most people.
Most people are stupid.
Furthermore, there's alot more religions that you've been taught about at school or come across in your daily life. If you studied some of them, you might find that they actually ARE reasonable, even if most of the followers of the religions aren't. Some religions you undoubtably haven't heard of exactly because they DON'T encourage recruiting. Also, some religions are highly eclectic, and while you might consider that a reason for rejecting it, it often makes the religion compatible with most others, and avoid the "we have The Truth" syndrome in it's followers.
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