1st 2nd 3rd gen motors

whast the diffrence between the 1st , second and third gen motors and how much hp do they have

assuming you mean 3S-GTE

no idea about 1st gen sorry.

edit for 1st gen specs:
Type 3S-GTE. Cast iron block, aluminum head construction. Transversally mounted.

1998 cm3 , water cooled in-line 4, 185 Bhp@6000 rev/min, 240 NM@3200rev/min.

Bore: 86mm, stroke 86mm compression ratio 8.5:1. Toyota CT26 oil lubricated , water cooled turbo (0.7 bar max. pressure) and water/air intercooler. 2 OHC belt driven and hydraulic tappets. 4 valves per cylinder (50°). Oil cooler. Electronic fuel injection (Bosch L-Jetronic licensed ).

END EDIT.

2nd gen 225hp (200 in US)
3rd gen 245hp (220 in US)
torque the same...
2nd gen 304NM@3200
3rd gen 304NM@4000

diff between 2nd and 3rd.
-2nd gen used AFM (air flow meter) 3rd gen used MAP and MAT (manifold air pressure/temperatue) sensors.
-3rd gen moved the tapit shims from above to below bucket... subtle difference but meant the engine stayed in tune better at increased hp apps like racing.
-2nd gen ran a ct26 turbo and 3rd gen changed to a smaller ct20 turbo but ran it at higher (13psi) boost to deliver more air.(26.4 lbs/min to 37lbs/min)
-compression ratio was dropped from 8.8 to 8.5
-valve timeing changed 56/0 to 50/6
-injector capacity raised from 430cc to 540cc
- 1998 jap spec (3rd gen) says TVIS removed, aluminium oil pan, revised exhaust and intake manifolds, better intercooler.
-port shapes changed inlet and exhaust.
-cams changed (8.2/8.2 to 8.7/8.2)

if i think of more i'll let you know

1st Gen.

Engine Code 3s-GTE
Engine Type Inline 4 cylinder DOHC 16 valve turbo
Engine Size 2.0 litres (1998 cc)
Bore × stroke 86mm × 86mm
Compression ratio 8.8:1
Max power 165kW @ 6000rpm
Max torque 304Nm @ 3200rpm

so whats the diff between 1st and 2nd gen?

Alright. I may be incorrect about the US spec stuff but im pretty sure im right.

Jap spec engines had 165kw between 1989-1993 (1st gen) [i think thats 200hp]

between 1993 and 1999 they had 180kw. [ i think thats 220hp]

the 3rd gen engine 3s-GTE was never put into MR2's. it only wen into the 6th gen GT4 Celicas. they had 206kw. [i think thats 245hp]

so from i understand of it all, America got the same deal as Australia. You never actually got the 3rd gen engine. that was only ever released in Japan.

I think what TRD2000 is calling the us spec 2nd and 3rd gen engines is actually 1st and 2nd gen engines.

mmm yep, and i THINK the 4th gen is in the Caldina, i don't know about the 1st gen but i'm pretty sure the 1989-93 had the 2nd.

165kw = 220hp
180kw = 240hp

-20 for the cat converter, and Australia didn't get very many (if any official) turbos, was mostly N/A

nup no official turbos but plenty were bought over when our old import system was in place but they recently changed it so now we cat get ANY MR2s in.... :(

I'm bringing mine back next year.

mmm yep, and i THINK the 4th gen is in the Caldina, i don't know about the 1st gen but i'm pretty sure the 1989-93 had the 2nd.


Never heard of the 4th gen before. i dont think there is one.

1st=165kw
2nd=180kw
3rd=206kw

it wouldnt have gone any higher due to the gentlemens agreement

power output wouldn't go higher but how many times has the 4g63 had 206kw....

now.

"The 3SG was introduced in 1986. This engine series was initially available in a FWD, AWD, or mid-ship configuration. Transverse. The block is based on the S series engines- a lightweight steel block that was earlier used with SOHC heads. Again this is an evolutionary engine. The 16-valve design is very similar to the 4AG and 7MG, in fact valves, springs, lifters- are very close dimensionally. The head is of the G type, meaning it was designed as the performance model as compared to the F types that are designed for torque and low-end response. Our concern here is performance so we will discuss only the G models.

There are 4 distinct generations. The 1st generation, most common in the US, is TVIS inducted (dual-runners with large ports) available in NA or Turbo editions. The 2nd generation was also available in both NA and Turbo forms, but had a different intake system (and smaller ports). The old TVIS system was replaced with a new short/long ram induction system on the NA models. This was achieved using a plenum that redirected air thru a shorter or longer passage- depending on throttle position and vacuum. On the turbo models the manifold just went straight to the head. This resulted in a much better throttle response, and with the added compression gained both HP and torque. The 3rd generation revised the valve adjustment set-up. The shim adjustment originally on top of the lifter, was moved under the bucket- like the old 2TG/18RG set-up. This was to correct a problem with shims falling out at very high RPM’s (on modified engines specially with aftermarket sports cams). This was a modification introduced earlier for higher lift and longer duration cams by sport tuners.

The 4th generation was upgraded to incorporate variable timing and lift, similar to the later model 2JZ Supra / Lexus engines. This engine finally found itself in RWD form in the Toyota Altezza / Lexus IS200! Maybe Toyota is starting to listen. Finally the 3SG in the important 2000cc class had power equivalent (or close enough) to other offerings from other manufacturers."

The turbo variant also progressed and is STILL used in the Toyota Caldina. 195KW, the 205 was NOT a different generatioin it was just a worked version of the 3rd gen 180kw engine. the 4th gen has a number of differences the ignition system being one. I can't remember the others.

link to a thread discussing 4th gen have a read.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t152324.html

incidentally if the turbo MR2's imported in aus were done so privately wouldn't they have been JDM not US spec? especially since they were built right hand drive????

oh ok i didn't know the VVTi ones were considered a separate generation. i always thawt of it as the next gen when they went up in power.

yeah the imported ones are J-spec. so we only get the 165 and 180kw.

your lucky, you live in NZ ive heard the import laws are pretty much nonexistant over there.

yeah they are... i've had mine about 9 months and i'm moving back to Aus (i'm not a fucking kiwi) next year hopefully so will be able to bring it with me (12 months ownership and all). G/F had (stolen on weekend) an FTO we prob would have brought too, we're going to look at a Supra TT for her on the weekend.

yeah the engine generations are based on the mechanical specs of the engine not the power output, and really the only difference with US spec is their cat converter drops 20hp. The 4th gen turbo doesn't have VVT unfortunately, but theres a bunch of other changes. I'm looking at getting a 4th gen non turbo and then turboing it for mine.

there is no suck thing as a 4rth gen 3sgte engine, its only a diff revision of the 3rd gen....

THE us only got the 1st and second gen 3sgte
1st gen came in celiac all tracks, had 190HP 190 TQ Used the ct-26
2nd gen came in celicas, then Mr2's had 200Hp 200Tq Used the ct-26

then there was the 2nd gen JDM that had 255 hp 225 tq (we never got it) used the ct-26

then there was 3rd gen in the gt-4 all track 6th gen celicas and cadlilna's, had 260 HP 255 TQ
used the ct-20B turbo

THERE WAS NO 4rth gen

yeah i always thawt what 91 Celica ST said was true.

i do know that they brought in VVt but i thawt that they were just a revised 3rd gen.

look at the link and check around some more, also list some differences cause without specifics we're never gonna sort this out.

mr2's never had the 1st gen 3sgte. only the all tracs/gt fours i believe.

2nd gen jdm mr2's got the 225hp engine. we were stuck with the 2nd gen u.s. 200hp engine from 91-95...all the years we had the mr2 in the u.s. (the 1st gen u.s. 3sgte was found in the all tracs)

3rd gen jdm engine produced 245hp with the help of a few things like a revised head, higher boost, and a BIGGER turbo (the ct20b) that could "hold boost all the way to redline" and "still spool similarly to the ct26" according to people who have switched to the ct20b. the 3rd gen also had a lower compression ratio of 8.5:1.

each engine is, of course, pretty different from the other.

nice call days,
the CT20 is actually smaller than the CT26, following garretts turbo sizing, but it ran at higher Psi to flow more air.

mr2's never had the 1st gen 3sgte. only the all tracs/gt fours i believe.

nup im pretty sure ur wrong on this.

the 1st gen is 165kw or 220hp (200hp in US)

the 2nd gen is 180kw or 240hp (220hp in US)

apparently in the US the cat converter takes away 20hp.

1st gen

Make Toyota
Family MR2
Model Variant GT-S
Year December 1991 to 1993
New Price 250.5 ten thousand Yen
Body Type Coupe
Seating Capacity 2
Engine Code 3s-GTE
Engine Type Inline 4 cylinder DOHC 16 valve turbo
Engine Size 2.0 litres (1998 cc)
Bore × stroke 86mm × 86mm
Compression ratio 8.8:1
Fuel system
Max power 165kW @ 6000rpm
Max torque 304Nm @ 3200rpm

2nd gen

Make Toyota
Family MR2
Model Variant GT-S T-Bar Roof specification car
Year October 1993 to 1996
New Price 273.0 ten thousand Yen
Body Type Coupe
Seating Capacity 2
Engine Code 3s-GTE
Engine Type Inline 4 cylinder DOHC 16 valve IC turbo
Engine Size 2.0 litres (1998 cc)
Bore × stroke 86mm × 86mm
Compression ratio 8.5:1
Fuel system
Max power 180kW @ 6000rpm
Max torque 304Nm @ 4000rpm

yeah theres no disputing they were the two engines in the SW20, but was there another gen of the engine in something else first?

ok i found it.. 87-89 celica GT4 st165

Type 3S-GTE. Cast iron block, aluminum head construction. Transversally mounted.

1998 cm3 , water cooled in-line 4, 185 Bhp@6000 rev/min, 240 NM@3200rev/min.

Bore: 86mm, stroke 86mm compression ratio 8.5:1. Toyota CT26 oil lubricated , water cooled turbo (0.7 bar max. pressure) and water/air intercooler. 2 OHC belt driven and hydraulic tappets. 4 valves per cylinder (50°). Oil cooler. Electronic fuel injection (Bosch L-Jetronic licensed ).

sounds like gen 1 to me... compression and output are different from the gen 2 used in the 1989- mr2

yeah i know my celicas and my 3sgte
USDM:
1st gen : 190 Hp(st165 all tracks)
2nd gen 200Hp(mr2's and st185, celica all tracks
3rd gen 225 Hp (only in mr2's)

jdm
1st gen : 215
2nd gen 255 in celica alll tracks 245 in mr2's
3rd gen 265 in all tracks, 255 in mr2's

when i get to my next college class ill post up how i know these

how do i post up a link to a web site that sells 3sgte motors from celicas and mr2's, it has the HP and TQ ratings on em

except they arent called alltracks in japan, think thats an American thing, but I know what you mean.

regarding the turbos of the mr2 and mr2's in general...i cant say it better than this guy. he's a very highly respected person in the mr2 world.
http://www.mrcontrols.com - homepage
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm - power primer
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/primers.htm - other primers

everything should be read if you really want to be safe and know the mr2 better.

i think i have this right...
USDM MR2
200bhp from 91-95

taken from an MR2 only magazine i have...
JDM MR2
89(89.10) - late 93 (93.10) - 225bhp
early 94 (93.10) -99 - 245bhp

yeah trd there called GT-4 in japan and europ there called all traks in america

it's like everyone wants to close their eyes and pretend the first gen in the celica never existed!

not really, the 2nd gen only had 10 mor Hp and 10 more TQ

yeah, just the number of people that think the first and second gen were the same... then call it the first and the third gen the 2nd...