Buying SVT some advice please.
jfarrell
09-22-2004, 06:13 PM
I am considering buy an 1998 SVT Contour for $4,250. It has 121,XXX miles, needs new sunroof motor and has a KN&N Air Filter. Other than those few things it is in good working order. If I do buy I am thinking about an Engine swap after a few thousand more miles. I am not sure. Give me opinions. Should I save a few more thousand and get a less miles one or what.
beyondloadedSE
09-22-2004, 07:35 PM
Id say buy it. You can pick up SVT contours for dirt cheap these days. Im sure that motor still has some life in it, so its up to you when you wanna swap a 3.0L in there. And you can buy a brand new 04 3.0L shortblock for like $600.
jfarrell
09-22-2004, 08:44 PM
An engine for $600 Dollars? With how many miles? What is the labor on those daddys? If i can get a cheap engine swap i will snatch that SVT up.
beyondloadedSE
09-23-2004, 10:56 PM
An engine for $600 Dollars? With how many miles? What is the labor on those daddys? If i can get a cheap engine swap i will snatch that SVT up.
Sorry, I quoted you wrong. The price is $526.91, not $600. :smokin: That is a brand new 3.0L shortblock with 0 miles, direct from the dealership. Yet once again, contour.org to the rescue. click me for link (http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=3L&Number=577473&Forum=All_Forums&Words=1626&Match=Username&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=577473&Search=true#Post577473) Personally, if you have somewhat of an inclination of engines, I would do the swap yourself and save yourself on the labor costs. I swapped mine, and had never swapped an engine before in my life. Theres been about 50 others on contour.org that have done the swap before and theres tons of information and questions that have been answered on there if your looking for info. If you do the swap, I would at least add a set of msds headers to help that engine breathe. Might as well take full advantage of making some power. My friend here who has an svt is putting down 196 whp untuned on his 3.0L hybrid.
Sorry, I quoted you wrong. The price is $526.91, not $600. :smokin: That is a brand new 3.0L shortblock with 0 miles, direct from the dealership. Yet once again, contour.org to the rescue. click me for link (http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=3L&Number=577473&Forum=All_Forums&Words=1626&Match=Username&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=577473&Search=true#Post577473) Personally, if you have somewhat of an inclination of engines, I would do the swap yourself and save yourself on the labor costs. I swapped mine, and had never swapped an engine before in my life. Theres been about 50 others on contour.org that have done the swap before and theres tons of information and questions that have been answered on there if your looking for info. If you do the swap, I would at least add a set of msds headers to help that engine breathe. Might as well take full advantage of making some power. My friend here who has an svt is putting down 196 whp untuned on his 3.0L hybrid.
jfarrell
09-24-2004, 11:49 PM
The 3.0L is an upgrade from the 2.5 SVT engine? How much horsepower does the 3.0 have? I had someone tell me the 2.5 is stronger.
beyondloadedSE
09-25-2004, 09:47 AM
The 3.0L is an upgrade from the 2.5 SVT engine? How much horsepower does the 3.0 have? I had someone tell me the 2.5 is stronger.
The 3.0L shortblock is generally used from a 99+ Taurus. Others have used it from an escape and lincoln ls. A full 3.0L swap will put out the same amount of horsepower as a 2.5L svt engine, but the 3.0L makes 200 ft.lbs of tq compared the svts 165 ft.lbs. Youll definetly feel that in the pants. If you swapped over the SVT upper and lower intakes, svt cams, and 60 mm throttle body to the full 3.0L, gains would be more.
However, what most poeple do is whats called an svt hybrid, which is where they use the 3.0L block and retain their 2.5L heads. This bumps compression up to 11.2:1 and makes significant power versus just the svt 2.5L. Youll at a minimum be making 225 hp and ive seen lightly modded svt hybrids make upward to 250 hp with simple bolt ons such as headers, intake, and a slight tune.
If your really wanting the most power, I would recommend a Taurus oval port 3.0L which gets rid of the primary and secondary split ports like we currently have on our 2.5Ls. A guy on CEG is running a full oval port 3.0L, ported and polished heads, svt cams, headers, port matched intakes, etc and is making around 280 hp.
The 3.0L shortblock is generally used from a 99+ Taurus. Others have used it from an escape and lincoln ls. A full 3.0L swap will put out the same amount of horsepower as a 2.5L svt engine, but the 3.0L makes 200 ft.lbs of tq compared the svts 165 ft.lbs. Youll definetly feel that in the pants. If you swapped over the SVT upper and lower intakes, svt cams, and 60 mm throttle body to the full 3.0L, gains would be more.
However, what most poeple do is whats called an svt hybrid, which is where they use the 3.0L block and retain their 2.5L heads. This bumps compression up to 11.2:1 and makes significant power versus just the svt 2.5L. Youll at a minimum be making 225 hp and ive seen lightly modded svt hybrids make upward to 250 hp with simple bolt ons such as headers, intake, and a slight tune.
If your really wanting the most power, I would recommend a Taurus oval port 3.0L which gets rid of the primary and secondary split ports like we currently have on our 2.5Ls. A guy on CEG is running a full oval port 3.0L, ported and polished heads, svt cams, headers, port matched intakes, etc and is making around 280 hp.
jfarrell
09-25-2004, 08:15 PM
If I took my SVT contour to a Ford Speed shop, do you think they would know what to do with the engine swap? I think I need a totally new engine because the one I am about to buy has 121,XXX. So I think when I get enough money for a new engine I will need a whole new one.
beyondloadedSE
09-25-2004, 08:18 PM
Yeah, they probably would. Not to mention, theyll probably have a service manual on hand to help with the removal/installation. Expect labor costs to be $1000+.
myconsvt
11-23-2004, 07:20 PM
you should buy it but rebuild it its only about $500 for a rebuild kit, and then throw a supercharger on it and you will be putting out more horses than with the 3.0 conversion. the 3.0 conversion is way over rated and pointless. i just rebuilt my 98 svt and put on a vortech supercharger and a few other goodies that i had on it before and i can spank my buddy with a 99 svt 3.0 conversion.
beyondloadedSE
11-24-2004, 10:17 AM
you should buy it but rebuild it its only about $500 for a rebuild kit, and then throw a supercharger on it and you will be putting out more horses than with the 3.0 conversion. the 3.0 conversion is way over rated and pointless. i just rebuilt my 98 svt and put on a vortech supercharger and a few other goodies that i had on it before and i can spank my buddy with a 99 svt 3.0 conversion.
Yeah, because you run a 12.5 right? :nono: Seriously, go and post somewhere else. If you knew anything about the Vortech, you would realize that its the biggest piece of junk for the car. It comes with no intercooler, you literally have to take it to redline just to make any boost, a 3.0L contour makes just as much tq as the vortech kit, and the failure rate is still at 100% because EVERYBODY that has bought one has stripped the jackshaft. A 3.0L swap is cheaper than the Vortech, more reliable, and I still havent seen a Vortech svt drop into the 13s. And they are trapping at what? Like 101-102? 3.0L svts are trapping that high.
Lets do a breakdown of the Vortech vs ADC turbo kit shall we:
No chip or tuning. $500 or more
No fuel upgrades $200-400 (injectors and pump)
Now it's $4500 vs $5000
No shaft support bearing ($300-500)
Now it's 5k vs 5k just to make the kit usable and maybe a little more reliable then it's 100% failure rate.
No intercooler. $1350+
Now it's $6350+ vs $5000
No headers. $650
Now it's 7k vs $5k
...and guess what...
Still makes substancially less power across the board.
Still out run by a NA 3L.
Vorcrap is Vorcrap regardless of now selling less kit for more money.
Yeah, because you run a 12.5 right? :nono: Seriously, go and post somewhere else. If you knew anything about the Vortech, you would realize that its the biggest piece of junk for the car. It comes with no intercooler, you literally have to take it to redline just to make any boost, a 3.0L contour makes just as much tq as the vortech kit, and the failure rate is still at 100% because EVERYBODY that has bought one has stripped the jackshaft. A 3.0L swap is cheaper than the Vortech, more reliable, and I still havent seen a Vortech svt drop into the 13s. And they are trapping at what? Like 101-102? 3.0L svts are trapping that high.
Lets do a breakdown of the Vortech vs ADC turbo kit shall we:
No chip or tuning. $500 or more
No fuel upgrades $200-400 (injectors and pump)
Now it's $4500 vs $5000
No shaft support bearing ($300-500)
Now it's 5k vs 5k just to make the kit usable and maybe a little more reliable then it's 100% failure rate.
No intercooler. $1350+
Now it's $6350+ vs $5000
No headers. $650
Now it's 7k vs $5k
...and guess what...
Still makes substancially less power across the board.
Still out run by a NA 3L.
Vorcrap is Vorcrap regardless of now selling less kit for more money.
myconsvt
11-29-2004, 02:58 PM
ok i do have more than just the supercharger, dont worry. and if you dont believe me about the times o well, maybe we will see each other on the street sometime and we can see if you still dont believe me. trust me it is my car.
beyondloadedSE
11-29-2004, 05:01 PM
ok i do have more than just the supercharger, dont worry. and if you dont believe me about the times o well, maybe we will see each other on the street sometime and we can see if you still dont believe me. trust me it is my car.
Can you please post a timeslip and list of mods. Where are you from? Im sure I could set up a race.
Can you please post a timeslip and list of mods. Where are you from? Im sure I could set up a race.
zx2srdotnet
11-30-2004, 12:55 AM
weither way when tat sc goes(and it will) you'll be nothing but rice food :)
Jason43
11-30-2004, 01:54 PM
What are you guys, stupid?
Why spend $500 on a proven engine swap when you can spend countless thousands on an underperforming, high failure rate supercharger. I mean, this guy says he's running a 12.4. Call me crazy, but thats proof enough for me.
Why spend $500 on a proven engine swap when you can spend countless thousands on an underperforming, high failure rate supercharger. I mean, this guy says he's running a 12.4. Call me crazy, but thats proof enough for me.
myconsvt
11-30-2004, 02:08 PM
i am from michigan so if you are anywere close that would be cool to set somethin up. and i will post the slip and list of mods a.s.a.p.
beyondloadedSE
11-30-2004, 05:54 PM
i am from michigan so if you are anywere close that would be cool to set somethin up. and i will post the slip and list of mods a.s.a.p.
Ill be in brownstown MI as soon as this week finishing getting my car tuned. Btw, if your up to it Ive got a friend with a turbo 2.5L svt contour that wants to race.
Ill be in brownstown MI as soon as this week finishing getting my car tuned. Btw, if your up to it Ive got a friend with a turbo 2.5L svt contour that wants to race.
myconsvt
11-30-2004, 07:10 PM
ok thats fine im am up at school for another 2 weeks before i come back home. but were did he get the turbo from. if the horses are that much more than i may think about a switch. just let me know about it and were to get it.
beyondloadedSE
11-30-2004, 07:44 PM
ok thats fine im am up at school for another 2 weeks before i come back home. but were did he get the turbo from. if the horses are that much more than i may think about a switch. just let me know about it and were to get it.
I think i would make the switch. ADC (Arizona Dyno Chip) formerly known as Street Flight is the only company that sells turbo kits for these cars. Base price is $5,000. It may seem steep, but compared to the Vortech your getting custom welded high quality 321 stainless steel turbo exhaust manifolds, stainless steel downpipe, intake pipe, etc. It comes with a T-28 dual ball bearing Garrett turbo, turbo blanket, spearco water to air intercooler, injectors, intercooler pump, intercooler water resevoir for the trunk, turbo xs blow off valve, tial wastegate, a custom tuned chip by Chris (great guy) that works at ADC. Youll be making full boost at 2800 rpms with this turbo (opposed to the Vortechs 6,500) and people usually make around the 270 whp mark with about 9-10 psi. Expect to see tq in the 260+. Best dyno on a 2.5L with the T-28 kit was 292 whp done by Chris. Like myself and many others, we've upgraded to a T3/T4 turbo, 700 cfm intercooler, different bov, etc. 300 whp was made on a 6 psi by one of the fellow members on CEG on his worked over 3.0L. He then sold the engine and swapped in a stock straight oval port 3.0L motor and made 326 whp on 9 psi. As of right now, the best numbers are on a fully built 2.5L svt motor that put down 401 whp on 17 psi and race gas just a few weeks ago. Chris put down 388 whp on his fully built 2.5L T3/T4 svt after he upgraded as well. You will see better gains with a 3.0L and earlier boost response from the larger displacement, but in the end both a 2.5L and 3.0L will make the same amount of hp with the same turbo, but youll just have to run more boost through the 2.5L to compensate the smaller displacement and assuming you have the pistons to back it up. If you want to see dyno comparisons of the vortech vs ADC turbo kit check out www.arizonadynochip.com. Theyve tuned both kits.
Long story short, the ADC turbo kit is an over engineered kit thats reliable and comes with everything you need (headers, intercooler, injectors, chip, etc) and will make more power across the power band than the Vortech.
I think i would make the switch. ADC (Arizona Dyno Chip) formerly known as Street Flight is the only company that sells turbo kits for these cars. Base price is $5,000. It may seem steep, but compared to the Vortech your getting custom welded high quality 321 stainless steel turbo exhaust manifolds, stainless steel downpipe, intake pipe, etc. It comes with a T-28 dual ball bearing Garrett turbo, turbo blanket, spearco water to air intercooler, injectors, intercooler pump, intercooler water resevoir for the trunk, turbo xs blow off valve, tial wastegate, a custom tuned chip by Chris (great guy) that works at ADC. Youll be making full boost at 2800 rpms with this turbo (opposed to the Vortechs 6,500) and people usually make around the 270 whp mark with about 9-10 psi. Expect to see tq in the 260+. Best dyno on a 2.5L with the T-28 kit was 292 whp done by Chris. Like myself and many others, we've upgraded to a T3/T4 turbo, 700 cfm intercooler, different bov, etc. 300 whp was made on a 6 psi by one of the fellow members on CEG on his worked over 3.0L. He then sold the engine and swapped in a stock straight oval port 3.0L motor and made 326 whp on 9 psi. As of right now, the best numbers are on a fully built 2.5L svt motor that put down 401 whp on 17 psi and race gas just a few weeks ago. Chris put down 388 whp on his fully built 2.5L T3/T4 svt after he upgraded as well. You will see better gains with a 3.0L and earlier boost response from the larger displacement, but in the end both a 2.5L and 3.0L will make the same amount of hp with the same turbo, but youll just have to run more boost through the 2.5L to compensate the smaller displacement and assuming you have the pistons to back it up. If you want to see dyno comparisons of the vortech vs ADC turbo kit check out www.arizonadynochip.com. Theyve tuned both kits.
Long story short, the ADC turbo kit is an over engineered kit thats reliable and comes with everything you need (headers, intercooler, injectors, chip, etc) and will make more power across the power band than the Vortech.
myconsvt
12-01-2004, 02:26 PM
hey thanks for the info on the turbo. its been helpful. now i just need to get some money, witch is hard when you are in college.
beyondloadedSE
12-02-2004, 09:06 AM
hey thanks for the info on the turbo. its been helpful. now i just need to get some money, witch is hard when you are in college.
This was just posted today. Yet another Vortech failure.
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=turbo&Number=782302&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1
This was just posted today. Yet another Vortech failure.
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=turbo&Number=782302&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1
Jason43
12-02-2004, 04:48 PM
There was another one posted at SVTperformance. O miles.
beyondloadedSE
12-02-2004, 05:46 PM
There was another one posted at SVTperformance. O miles.
heres the thread.... http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141193
heres the thread.... http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141193
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