1989 Civic Timing Belt

Yeah, just by reading the subject, you already know the inevadable has happened. The timing belt jumped, Since it killed in traffic, I really didnt know what happened at the time, so I kept cranking on it out of stupidness, and not thinking, and blew the starter. I replaced the starter, and it cranked, then ripped apart the engine, replaced the belt, and attemped to start it. Its either still a little out of time, or being an interference engine, (correct?) I have valve damage, and major engine repairs. Any suggestions? Thanks a lot. BTW, its a 1989 Honda Civic with roughly 200,000 miles on it.

Definitly is an interference motor. Easiest way for you to tell if you have bent valves is to do a leakdown test. Its like a compression test but pinpoints where you are losing compression (rings, headgasket, valves). If you dont know how to do it, find a friend that does or take it to a shope and throw them a few bucks to do it.

Put a vacuum gauge on it, if the needle shakes when its' running, the valves are bent. If the reading is absurdly low, cam timing is off.

where would you hook the gauge up to?

Any vacuum source below the throttle plate (i.e. the intake manifold) The line for the brake booster is good. Has to be an unregulated vacuum source. Should read 17-21" at idle and steady. Should drop to zero when the throttle is popped. Low reading indicates bad cam timing or ignition timing retarded, or low compression overall. Shaky reading indicates compression imbalance. A wandering reading can be indicative of a carb problem. A rhythmic drop, consistant with each revolution indicates a single cylinder affected. If a restricted exhaust is suspected, the reading will slowly drop at steady throttle opening as the backpressure builds. The most useful and timesaving diagnostic tool you can have.

Suction at the throttle plate is a mirror image of the compression in the cylinders. Once you look at it that way, it's easy to picture what the gauge is telling you.

good to know :bigthumb:

thanks guy's, but, what if its so out of time that it doesnt run? How do I check for bent valves then? Thanks

then you'd do a leakdown test

lets pretend for a second I have no idea what your talking about. What do I do now?

lets pretend for a second I have no idea what your talking about. What do I do now?

You should be able to tell if your timing marks are properly aligned, if not, you gotta pull the belt and redo it. What's it sound like when you crank it? Is it notchy and straining, or smoothly turning? Maybe too smooth? You have to verify that the cam timing is correct (marks are lined up) or a compression test will be false information. A leak down test is a little involved. I think you should just get your cam timing correct, and do a standard compression test. If you get variations of more than 20% in your readings from one cylinder to another, it's junkyard cylinder head time.:banghead:

Yeah, before when the belt initially jumped, it would crank really fast, and sound like there was no compression, then it would slow down, and backfire, and then speed up again, with no compression, and slow down, over and over again. Now, its a little more normal, sounds like its chugging air, if that makes any sense, but it still kind of slows, and speeds back up, which has gotten better, but thats why I believe it is still off time. Thanks, does this help any?

Yeah, before when the belt initially jumped, it would crank really fast, and sound like there was no compression, then it would slow down, and backfire, and then speed up again, with no compression, and slow down, over and over again. Now, its a little more normal, sounds like its chugging air, if that makes any sense, but it still kind of slows, and speeds back up, which has gotten better, but thats why I believe it is still off time. Thanks, does this help any?
Yeah, if the marks are lined up and it sounds like that, you might be hearing compression coming through the intake, huffing back through bent intake valves. You could try having someone rotate the distruibutor slowly one way then the other while you crank the starter, if the cam timing is just a little off, that will usually get it to start, but it won't run strong. The cam and distributor are geared together (or I think it actually runs off the end of the cam on that car) so if the IGNITION timing was right before the belt broke, it still is. The problem is cam timing or bent valves. If your marks are correct, and you are getting push-back through the intake, the head is junk.

Did the old belt actually break, or just rip a bunch of teeth off? If it stripped teeth, you've got valve collision almost for sure, as cam timing jumped while the motor was still running. Sometimes they break clean, and you get lucky enough that the cam stops with the valves mostly closed. The cam, being under spring pressure from the valves, will try to stop at the point of least resistance i.e. least amount of valves lifted. Did it seem to stumble or get weak just before it broke? If so, it was still running with cam timing jumped, and it probably crashed some valves.

I'm assuming it is fuel injected? Put a piece of paper over the throttle body's intake side, and have someone crank it. If it alternates between sucking the paper into the intake and pushing away from it, you've got intake valves bent.

Great idea with the paper, and no, it just died all at once, I didn't, or at least dont think I heard anything crashing into eachother. And no, actually this was very odd, the timing belt jumped, no teeth were stripped, and it didnt break. Dont know what else to say. Maybe be a bad tensioner? I made sure it was tight, but not real tight. Who knows, I think its a junker. with that being said, I have another question for you. Is my 2001 Lumina 3.1 V6 an "interference engine"? Please so no, or I might just die. Its fine by me if the belt breaks, things happen, rubber gets worn, I just think its so stupid that manufacturers cant make another 10mm or so between the valves, and the pistons to avoid major problems in cases like this.

Are using a manual or other reference for the timing mark positions? Some people assume that they always are supposed to point at each other. Some are, some both point up, some point to marks on the motor casting. Never assume anything.

The 3.1 has a chain, and is not an interference motor, as far as I know. The chain usually outlasts the car. I don't think I'd worry about that until after at least 150,000 miles. The reason for the close fit, the higher the valves can lift, the more intake charge can be drawn in, and the faster the exhaust can be evacuated, making for a free-revving, high RPM power maker. Unfortunately, some people will ignore the service interval for belt change (60,000 miles, usually) and have to buy a new head when its' belt breaks. Or occaisonally, the whole motor, if pistons get tapped hard enough to crack.

yeah, that makes me feel a lot better, being my car isnt interference. And yes, My friend actually had a book that he rented from the library that was specifically for that motor in that car. When I look back to when it first jumped, I remember him cranking it, and I had the intake cover off, and I was seeing what looked like smoke, or some white vapor, gas maybe?, being puffed out of the top of the intake, does that make sense? So, maybe like you said, the valves are bent, and compression is forcing fuel out the intake. Anyways, I have to work for the next 5 days or so, but I intend on ripping into that head in about a week, I'll let you all know how it turns out.

. When I look back to when it first jumped, I remember him cranking it, and I had the intake cover off, and I was seeing what looked like smoke, or some white vapor, gas maybe?, being puffed out of the top of the intake, does that make sense? .

If that was with the broken belt, it doesn't mean anything. Some valves are going to stop open when it breaks. But if you are seeing fuel vapor being huffed out the intake after putting the belt on, Houston, we have a problem.

ok, I'll try that paper idea in a few days, I have no time right, now, thanks.

I wish you were closer-I'd drive up and help ya'.

yeah, I know, that sucker has been sitting in my friends yard for a while now. I guess nobody likes the poor honda, When I have time, she gonna be running again, and if nothing else when it is, stip it down and use it for an oversized go cart. He He. as i said, it has 210,000 miles on it. If the valves got bent, I'll just go to my local junkyard. Maybe you guys have heard of French Lake Auto Parts? Its the biggest junkyard I've ever seen, cars as far as the eye can see. Check out the link. http://www.flapinternational.com I'm sure they have a head with good valves I could get pretty reasonable. Anything I should take into consideration when I do this job? Maybe a new valve cover gasket, and new head gasket? I know my friend said that the head gasket was getting bad, but would this cause it to have the symptoms I've described earlier in this post? Thanks

Buy a complete top end gasket set, it's cheaper than buying seperate pieces. Straightedge the block a few different ways across it, to check for flatness, and do the same with the head. After scraping (careful not to gouge the metal!) use fine emery cloth to polish the sealing surfaces. Pay close attention to any markings on the gaskets (top, up, front, etc.) and don't leave any debris in the cylinders. Use a torque wrench on all head and manifold bolts, tightening in increments, and the proper sequence. No, a bad head gasket will just cause overheating, and possibly a noticeable exchange of coolant, oil, and compression to places it shouldn't be. One that old, you can usually find a whole motor for not much more than a head. Had a guy here selling two, One looked like a baked potato but ran like a bear, and one excellent body (no rust or dents) and a perfect interior, cracked block, both for $400. I thought about doing the swap and selling it, but I don't have a garage anymore, and having a motor hanging from a hoist would definitely put my nieghbors into full asshole mode. Good luck!

yeah, thats the thing, towards the end of the honda's life, it was overheating quite frequently, and we did notice a slight crack in the plastic radiator, but not really too big, but big enough for steam to leak out when it started to overheat, so we just assumed that was the reason for the overheating problem.

Sunday is the day my friends, she be gettin that head toar apart. It was going to be wednesday, but thats the day "MY BABY" is getting new bf goodrich radial T/A's, and my rims came today. I'm so happy. He He.

Post pics of wheels. What'd you get?