275HP without turbo... Possible???

My goal is to get my engine 275hp without a turbo, and then add a turbo later.

things i got..

Competition Light Flywheel
Kryptonite stage 3 Clutch
Intake
Short Shifter

Things ill get..

1.GREDDY EXHAUST http://www.hopupracing.com/grmxcaexsyni.html or
1.BLITZ EXHAUST http://www.hopupracing.com/blrettexni24.html

2.ROSS RACING PISTONS http://attila.sdsu.edu/~mmikse/domains/ka24de/ross/rosska24de.htm

3.PAUTER PEENEED RODS http://attila.sdsu.edu/~mmikse/domains/ka24de/pauter/rodska24de.htm

4.http://store.modacar.com/products/Nissan/240SX/MODALSD (the $800 one)

5.VENOM PERFORMANCE CHIP http://www.eautoworks.com/ORD-Auto~Performance-Venom~400-No-5192.htm

6.ELECTRIC RADIATOR FAN http://srownersclub.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HT&Product_Code=PERM-14-KIT&Category_Code=EFAN
will free up some HP

7.PORT AND POLISH INTAKE

8.PORT AND POLISH HEAD

9.GREDDY HEAD GASKET

10.ALUMINUM RADIATOR

how much HP am i looking total here about? any idea?

i dont think you can build a high hp NA motor and plan to turbo it later, because in order to get high hp from NA you need high compression, so its either one or the other...

I would just turbo it first, NA is boring.

yeah i agree with dekand, turbos are much more fun, easier power too

Why Can't You Turbo A High Comression Motor?

5 Pounds Of Boost On A High Compression Motor Is Going To Yeild Quicker Boost Response And Similar Power As A 8.5 To 1 Compression Boosted 14psi Motor.

The Higher Compresion Just Lowers The Boost Threshold And Raises The Cylinder Temps.... You Just Can't Boost Too Much And Have Have To Concetrate On Intake Cooling And Fuel Delivery.

I agree, if you have a real good setup turboing with higher compression might not be all too bad, you have to have your car tuned GOOD as well. Depends on your goal, if you want 400-500hp id say lower the compression, If you want 200-300 it could be done with higher compression, in between there depends on your money and how good you can get the computer tuned to run the right amount of fuel, which is more important with the higher compression.


oh and N/A is more exciting then turbo by far when your racing, real men leave the hammer down and the ITB's screaming... the boys break out the turbo to run boost and try to catch em.. with no where near the same throttle response of power delivery... hehehe

yes power delievery for a turbo is not exactly the greatest. however why spend soo much money on a N/A thats not even goin to be close to making 275hp and is always on the threshold of tearing itself apart? a high tuned n/a motor is more stressful then a light turbo setup. yet the turbo setup will yeld more power. also that setup of yours is goin to cost more then putting a turbo in. and also yes you got a point about your compression yelding more hp. however its alot more knock prone. no matter how little boost you run. also if you got a ecu tuned for n/a your gonna have to scrap it again becusae n/a tune is by leaning out and advancing timing. the 2 biggest no no's for a turbo car. so that combined with hi compression pistons = blown engine heaven. i know a guy who has 9:1 forged pistons in his 240. he didn't do shit about the timing. and he was running fatter injectors and had a wide band 02 sensor and was running 10-11:1 A/F ratio and he still blew his engine 3 times!!!! so tuning plays a big part definitly. considering that i still have my stock 9.5:1 compression and is still running strong with no smoke for over 30K mile.

Also if you want high power with an NA engine, you'll need some really aggressive cams which will mess with your idle and you'll have a powerband that'll make driving the car around a huge pain.

agree.... why n/a on a nissan??? get a honda or something that is rev happy and has a smaler displacement. ka dznt have a secondary timing for the cams (like a Verialble timing that is found on the new SR's) so u will idel like sh#T!for gods sake it is a truk engine! plus it will cost u allot more then a turbo set up, and it will not deliver the power that u expect. anything is posible with money, and u idea is bold but i call bullsh$t on that one...

ok, that set up i was thinking was for turbo, because of the low compression pistons. So lets say i put that same set up as i first said and throw a greddy turbo on there, and run it out of the box with 6psi... what would that put my engines HP to?

275 N/A on a stroked SR20 with 300+ duration cams, 12:1+ compression, and ITBs. Likely (id do it if I had the big bucks)

275 N/A on a KA with off the shelf parts and a turbo in the future. NEVER

I say go low compression and high boost... the money and time saved and the "better" HORSEPOWER is the difference.

I dont know much about engines, but from the little I know the engine may have bigger displacement than the SR20 but it aint a big block so it aint worth it unless you got the money :bananadie

NA cars are more fun to race and beat on....... its like a night and day difference between a turbo car and a decent N/A car, sure the turbo can have more power, this doesn't nessecarily make it faster.

Since the N/A engine has better throttle response, and a more liner power curve, it is a bit more stable when trying to take hard corners and at the same time adding more power, or just keeping the throttle down.

with a turbo you have to keep the pedal down and build up boost to hit your power, and its just not the same power delivery if your not on the gas 100%. so this type of setup doesn't provide the best engine for a tight road course, back roads, auto crossing, etc... now on a Super Speedway or a big road course it wouldn't matter as much, since throttle manipulation isn't as big of a factor.

NA cars are more fun to race and beat on....... its like a night and day difference between a turbo car and a decent N/A car, sure the turbo can have more power, this doesn't nessecarily make it faster.

Since the N/A engine has better throttle response, and a more liner power curve, it is a bit more stable when trying to take hard corners and at the same time adding more power, or just keeping the throttle down.

with a turbo you have to keep the pedal down and build up boost to hit your power, and its just not the same power delivery if your not on the gas 100%. so this type of setup doesn't provide the best engine for a tight road course, back roads, auto crossing, etc... now on a Super Speedway or a big road course it wouldn't matter as much, since throttle manipulation isn't as big of a factor.


You made a very good point, its just that I dont see the point in getting 275hp out of the ka while N/A, but if you know your share of engines and know what your doing than go for it right? everyone whos saying "turbo" are trying looking at it from a "practical" point of view but than again who says going N/A isnt practical??? But that is in general, if he decides to invest/spend his money and time than I just hope its well spent ya know. We all know that N/A cars with a lot power are TOO fun to drive and Ive had my share of N/A cars that I wish everyone could of experienced... those are just my :2cents:

Luckily the KA24de valvetrain is built pretty good, more sturdy then the SR valvetrain. Stiffer valve springs have already been covered, they also make titanium retainers that are stronger and lighter then the OEM ones, these two things together do not raise the redline, they just allow you to rev a little bit higher without fucking anything up. Of course to do any of this you need to retune your ECU to accept the new limmiter and cut off points.

the reason you do not need to port and polish the heads is because the KA24DE head is one of the freest flowing stock heads known to man. It will put a SR's head to shame..(now that sounds like guys arguing over woman haha) some guy spent over a grand on a real nice professional maximum port, valve angle job, and polished all the runners, and gained 2rwhp..yes thats TWO. Doing stuff like that to a v8 or so would net about a 50hp gain... you won't gain hardly anything, DEFINTELY not worth the price, spend 1200 bucks on something else, it will be a more worthy purchase.

so with all these great features, how come the KA is so whimpy stock? Well in actuality its not too bad. It puts down more power then a B16 honda motor. If you raised the compression for say a 20hp gain, not too impossible, you would be up around a B18's power output. So whats the weak spot? It has great displacement, strong rods(yes u have heard about some of them failing, if u treat an engine wrong any rod will break), long rod ratio, and the head and valvetrain design is excellent, not too mention the iron block... its the CAMS nissan used that derates this motor. Buy some forged pistons for about a 12:1 ratio, basic engine overhaul kit, some decent gas, some of the stage II NA cams, computer tune, lightweight pulley, intake, header, catback and valve springs/retainers, ditch clutch fan for electric setup... you would be amazed at how different the car will feel. With a LSD, some lighter wheels, wider tires, decent clutch and maybe even a lighter flywheel, this setup should be in the 13's with a decent driver, and it doesn't even cost that much really, most of the parts you would buy for a turbo setup, and the other ones you wouldn't are cheap compared to turbo accessories and the actual turbo.

thats what I would do if I had a 240sx......

but im saving up scraps for da Cadillac Fleetwod......
soon to be seats laid back, v8 rumbling, brakes that would astonish u for a 5000lb beast(better then a 240sx atleast muhahaha) and handling that will leave u saying, wtf is this a caddi?
:rofl:
southern pimp style


I just read this post for Higher RPM Range and wow thats pretty good to know, I have a question to ask also. the 12:1 ratio is really high, so Im thinking it will still be safe to upgrade it after you've done what you have said in that post you made right? BTW if my question sounds stupid your talking to a :newbie: and yeah so basically after that setup you just mentioned what other upgrades could you do? and do you think it still could be streetable?

yes power delievery for a turbo is not exactly the greatest. however why spend soo much money on a N/A thats not even goin to be close to making 275hp and is always on the threshold of tearing itself apart? a high tuned n/a motor is more stressful then a light turbo setup. yet the turbo setup will yeld more power. also that setup of yours is goin to cost more then putting a turbo in. and also yes you got a point about your compression yelding more hp. however its alot more knock prone. no matter how little boost you run. also if you got a ecu tuned for n/a your gonna have to scrap it again becusae n/a tune is by leaning out and advancing timing. the 2 biggest no no's for a turbo car. so that combined with hi compression pistons = blown engine heaven. i know a guy who has 9:1 forged pistons in his 240. he didn't do shit about the timing. and he was running fatter injectors and had a wide band 02 sensor and was running 10-11:1 A/F ratio and he still blew his engine 3 times!!!! so tuning plays a big part definitly. considering that i still have my stock 9.5:1 compression and is still running strong with no smoke for over 30K mile.
did he have an egt gauge or just an af gauge?


of course you can do 275whp on n/a... but why. the only reason i see in doing that is to prove something, or building a more responsive autox car. but even on autox, most of the time you are above 4k and the turbo is there waiting for you.


no reason to do n/a..................................... none. unless you hate turbo lag.

ok if i was going to mod a N/A ka24de this is exactly what I would do:

Stand Alone Engnie computer

Higher compression pistons(can go from an easy SOHC ka piston stock swap to raise compression to forged ones that require proper tuning and higher octane)

Stage II Clutch
Light Flywheel

Stage II cams check pdm

Ferrea Valve Springs and Retainers

Electric radiator fans-remove fan clutch

-KOYO aluminum radiator

-new hoses

-new belt

-lightweight underdrive pulley

-Header

-Test Pipe

-Apexi Dual n1 catback

-Low temp thermostat

-LSD

-Tires/Wheels

-Weight Reduction

and if u want even more, with your stand alone ECU you can fab up a set of ITB's to add about 20 hp........

with all of this you are looking at a 220rwhp N/A car atleast and running in the 13's.........


and it will be way cooler then a turbo car.... it will sound nicer, get u more props from the techies, be more responsive and more fun to drive then a turbo car, handle a road course better, and you will have power anytime you are in the right gear and mash down the throttle pedal instantly.

I speak from the SR community... i believe internals and a LOT of weight reduction and a good tranny setup *i like where you were going with the setup on the lsd*

Blueprint...bore it out!... stoker kit!! stage 4 cams... replacing the interals like said will be good... but compression is something i dont like to see go up from stock...just doesnt feel that safe. If you were to go SR then i would recomend a sr16ve top with an s13 bottom end to create a nice sr20vet :)

lots of modifications will a must to get the head and bottom end to work together... but take of the turbo and work up the bottom end and u can run 275 with no problem... its just going to be a lot!

mynismo, my friend had a wide 02 sensor. so he was about to see how rich he was running. esp after he got the Z32 MAF the car's settings were all screwed so he had to redo all the setttings.

With intake, exhaust, header, test pipe, S1 cams, mild porting/port matching, and proper EFI tuning you should be able to reach about 230 SAE net HP @ 6200 rpm. The Z Concept that Nissan revealed in 1999 was actually a shortend and rebodied 240SX and was powered by a KA24DE; with the same intake plumbing and exhaust manifold as our 240s; it made 200 SAE net HP @ 6200 rpm but it had a 10.X:1 compression ratio, a "race profile" cam, and obviously a remapped ECU. You could get the power you are wanting but I'm going to say it would involve a compression ratio substantially higher than stock. If I were you I'd invest in some piggy-back electronics or ECU remapping rather than a performance chip, which will advance the ignition timing and bring you closer to (or beyond with high compression) the detonation threshold. Further, the chip will never be optimized for a custom build up. Unless you just like NA setups, the turbo would be far cheaper for the desired HP, costing around $1000 if you are a wise shopper.

high compression isnt good at all. If an engine has high compression and you put a turbo you can set the boost controler to .4 bar but you will actually have a high boost reading and can blow you engine or make the computer kill and have all kindes or fault codes causing the egine to run eraticly.

not for street car any way. (kinds*)

the highest piston compression you should run is 9.5:1 in a turbo(i.e. T3/t4)because you can run about 1.6bar not problem.