7sec 3000GT

I've seen 1400bhp 1.8Liter Celicas, and 8 sec supras, even skylines that are achieving 1450bhp from a 3 liter internal combustion engine, why isnt there a 3kgt or stealth in the even in the 9's

the subject isnt about losing weight/mass it should be on developing more horse power, quicker gear setups , timing changes to make it faster and more efficient,
I have a FWD 94 base 3000GT i want to at least look at the feasible side of making this happen
i'll keep posting my ideas

Is there anyone on this site that is curious about it as well ?

-TurpsGT-

i don't think any of those options will work.

You would need to put so much money in a car to get it to 7.xx seconds. I don't even know if it's possible. The fastest VR4 I've seen is 10.75 @ 135. No VR4 has gotten to 9.xx yet even.

The way to go is to get a MR 3000GT since it is allready lighter than the VR4 because of less luxury/tech and get it even lighter with more aftermarket/ custom setup. Then your gonna want shorter gears and new forged pistons and other internals made to up displacement and raise redline, then of course work on the turbo setup with the bigger turbos and fule delivery. Thats alot of money since there are gonna be alot of parts that your going to have to have custom fabricated, basically alot of aluminium and carbon.

well i have a 94 base which weighs in at about 3200lbs which is exactly what the skyline and supra weigh in at also so there has to be a practical way to do it
maybe consult some of the 3000GT/stealth performance part companies companies like

Dynamic Racing, DN performance, Horsepowerfreaks.com , maybe their willing to give a partial sponsorship in the venture, but im almost CERTAIN that the key lies in changing the gears.

the first two are quick but the third.. is not suited at all for quickness
thats just the design flaw

3rd gear and 3800lbs in the TT models dont equal quick
I think at least gear change and lighter internals to quicken the snapiness of the Revs should at least show 9's with the same mods

What is it about 3kgt's that make them sooo heavy?

most of that weight come from heavy 30lb chrome wheels , and the rear subframe, its like a metal "X" shaped frame that houses the rear steering rack and pinion, the differencial and the indepenant rear suspension and rear powersteering pump gear

-TurpsGT-

It's only the TTs and VR4s that are heavy and it's because of the luxury and technology thats put into them like 4 wheel steering, all wheel drive, active areo, and other minor stuff like power sunroof.

I think a really aggressivly geared, highly modded front driver should be able to touch the 9's the weight in the TT 3800lbs, and all that power would be brutal on any transmission.

If we put our heads together we can come up with a set up that works, and go at it our selves or present it to a company that can make it work.

this is the only super car that has never seen the 9's even a chick driving a AT, FWD 2.0 liter saturn has seen the 7's so there's gotta be a way.

(Without at ALL taking any credit from her, for any reason, because female racers are awesome!)

I'm going to study some drag setups, and find out their weight, chassis setup, how they're pulling a grand of horses out of a 1.8 liter etc. I'll let you know what i come up with.
-TurpsGT-

uhmm, dude, supras weigh just over 3600lbs, they are not that much less than a vr-4, the difference in weight between a supra and a vr-4 is AWD, and skylines are just as heavy as a vr-4

the difference between them and us, is that 3/S owners do not invest a buttload of money to make the car go that fast. There's a supra owner in town who runs 9's and he said he has invested 3 times as much into that car as he paid for it. So take that he paid about 25 grand for his car, he invested 75 grand into it for performance to make it run 9s. Most 3/S owners don't even have to invest the amount they paid for their car to make it go 10s. Dr1000s, Dr stage 3 heads, and supporting mods, probably cost you about 12 grand or so, and lots of time tuning, you have 10's in a vr-4. :smile:

well im talking about a 3200lb Fwd base should be able to turn comparable times to those cars, if those mods alone take a 3800lb car to 10's then a simular setup with more aggressive gears should put a 3200lb base in the 9's

Hey, hotshot do you know any of the major mods he's made to his car, and what were the more expensive ones ?

-TurpsGT-

I've been doing alot of reasearching my self and
well
in drag ( I think it was top feul) , but the min weight was 2400lbs and that could include the driver but If we assume that it doesnt; then its about 800lbs lighter than the 3000GT that reduction in weight is acredited to complete tube frames, one seat, no interior( minus steering wheel , pedals, gauges and shifter, y'know the absolute essentials) but because this isnt an absolute must win championship, and there isnt an absolute necessity to run low 4's like these guys are the 800lbs in creature comforts are forgivable

I researched the stealth running 10's it was in the high just below 900bhp and im guessing that since minor turbo mods were all it took to get moderatly lightend 3800lb TT model to run 10's on stock gears, another 2-300hp should get it into the 9's with the same set up.

so i checked into the prostock class where the average hp level is at about 1250-1650hp here other than forged internals and Huge turbo and alchol injection this was just about a stock setup
their man problem was spooling the huge turbo, to get around the problem the use dry nitrous shot into the turbo impeller to get it spinning more quickly,

I have a question
If boost( what these car rely on to make their mosterous power gains ) is only pressurized air, why not run an aircompressor preset to ( for the sake of discussion lets just say) 90psi on forged internals and reinforced block with a pump and injectors that can keep up ?

I mean if traction were a problem just run dualie hooziers on the front?

You can't run an air compressor because they could never keep up with the ammount of air they would need to compress for the engine to run. it might be feesable to attach a small container of compressed air linked to the exhaust side of the turbo and have it hooked up so that it dumps it all in right before you go full throttle, would be a cool idea but I guess thats what you were talking about with the shot of nitrous lol.

well nitrous across hot exhaust blades isnt Quite what i mean,lol but, actually i think your idea would be better , because the exhaust is a smaller compartment, and with the compressed air going directly across the exhaust blades/propeller it would actuallyspool the turbo a whole lot faster and create and exhaust vacuume which would make it rev alot faster, but the problem would be after the compressor is out of air b/c the exhaust cant keep the turbo spinning that fast you would expierience mid track lag , where the turbo starts producing less boost, and if the compressed air isnt hot enough you could risk cracking your turbo exhaust housing.
but somewhere along those lines is the answer were looking for
-TurpsGT-

Heh yea the air spewing out would be cold as hell, might be better going in to the engine than coming out lol.

If you want a seven second 3000GT with a 3000GT motor then you drive fairly slowly throught the Quarter take a white out pen and cover up the 1 in 17 :P

or You drop a 429 motor in it and do a nitrous alcohol supercharged with a blower jack up the back and do it Chevy style :P

I'm not entirely sure the 6G72 can support the HP neccesary for a 7 second quarter, I'd imagine you'd need somewhere in the realm of 1800... Just doesnt sound plausible

Keep in mind the Skyline, Supra and Celicas are all inline engines, that might have something to do with it (I'm not an engine expert....)
I Know that A guy by the name of John Lingenfelter (ever heard of him? :P) tuned a Cavalier I4 too 1000HP with only adding a single Turbo... From what I've seen Inline engines respond better to turbocharging than a V alligned engine... maybe not but thats just What I've seen, otherwise if you had the money I'd think a 3000 could easily get up to 1200+ HP, yet the most powerful one is only at something like 865?

Something doesn't work out here....

hmmm lets see whats the displacement.. hmm... 183 CI? say bored out to about 184 x 10 = 1840 running Nitromethane (~10 HP per CI)

Bore out the engine, remove the Exhaust, get a Nitro Supercharger, Use a NitroPropane fuel, Run it through at 50 GPM, Strip out the car, build a CF body for it get a Chromoly tube chassis, and some Slicks, I still dont think It'll work... But Good luck, BTW this will cost nearly 80grand or more...

Oh and be sure to have your car equipped with a parachute and big ass Spoiler that works. I'm not joking here, You're going to need it.


disclaimer: if you kill yourself its not my fault this info is based off whats done to domestic (american) engines for funny cars and drag cars, this is all feasable but none of it is proven on a 3s It's all been proven on 426 Hemi's, so go buy one of them WARNING! you'll be putting out around 5000HP with that engine wahaha Stick to possible stuff, don't say I didnt warn you.

Edit:\ the supercharger spins at 10k RPM and displaces 100,000 CI of air per minute, it should be able to handle your compressed air needs. :P

That's 1/8 mile right? Cause you should be aming for 9's first.

the TT's "could" make over 1000 awhp but the tranfer case will never hold. djforplay is working on fixin that with getting a special super forged case from australia or somthing, he 's got everyting else forged already I believe with 2 x 25G 's he could come close to the 1000+Hp and being the first under 10sec car, the word is he already put 90000 dollars into it. but it aint a done job yet, he is going to go to california to work for GTpro and I am sure they will sponsor him. Bummer he is leaving texas. The market is just to small for big things to happen for our cars. This brings us to front wheel turbo conversions, watch importpoweronline.com chris had a huge single turbo conversion , he brought it to the NGo4 however he had just finished it so it was untuned and therefore no good results. His car was stripped with a chair and that was it so keep an eye on him. It seems these 10sec - times are gonna depend ona few "crazy" individuals as a whole 3S there wont be no masses entering under 10 sec anytime soon unless somone comes with another miracle chemical like NOS

well that cant quite be the case because the "V" set up is exactly what the top feul dragsters use to run 4's

It seems as though the main concern is the gear box being able to support, the horsepower the 6G72 is able to make, and successfully carry the cars mass the distance under the stress, the 3S are already known for the bad gear syncros.

which just goes back to "with a better gear setup and the power this engine can already make...."

I still think 6x 5gallon tanks linked and compressed to 130psi. and two hoses just out side the throttle body, on forged internals, with a compotent feul system, and dualie hooziers on the front should.....

well then theres the whole gear/ syncro thing again

-TurpsGT-

Don't the top fuel car's have a 2 speed tranny? or am I smokin something again....

Turps, don't take offense to some of the responses you may have gotten/may get to this subject. It simply is that many people come on this board every month or so 'determined' to put the vr4 into the 10s, or the 9s. Now I can't judge their true intentions, and do not want to discourage or downplay any of the serious ones, but many come off as teenagers who have watched Fast and the Furious one time too many.

It isn't that there aren't people out there right now trying to do what you are suggesting. There are, the problem is that they are few and far between. The main problem in most peoples eyes is the rariety of our cars.
If you take a look here:
http://www.3kgt.com/dimensions.shtml
you'll see that from 91-99 there were only 86,151 3000gts sold/produced
even if you hypothetically double that to include dodge stealths. Only a fraction of those are twin turbo setups...the 'prefered' car for upgrading(please no NA owners take offense)
That number is less than the honda civics produced last year alone.
Now take into consideration how many of these 3S cars have been totaled, junked, stored away by collectors with no desire to modify these cars, or are simply daily drivers with no sub 10s aspirations.
The numbers just get smaller and smaller.

This translates to a small market for potential businesses. To create an aftermarket part for our car, research and development must be done...this costs a hell of alot. If the company doesn't foresee the profit in doing all that work, they simply wont.
This horrible supply and demand situation leads to a few adverse consequences:
1) a lack of aftermarket support in comparison to the hondas, supras, wrxs, and so on.
2) if companies do produce the part, it ends up costing 3x as much as it should...for me, a broke college student, this translates to a very long wishlist, and only 1 or 2 purchases a year.
3) Not all of us 3/S owners have the technical knowledge to tackle such things as fabricating new parts and modifications. Unfortunantly for some, like me, our knowledge is limited just as much as our cashflow.

While there are many who are taking the initiative, such as yourself, of trying to advance the potential limits of our cars, they unfortunantly, aren't a dime a dozen. Resulting in very slow progress. Few of us have the means, knowledge, money, or connections to truely do more than follow where others have paved the way.

There are those out there who do have the means, the money/sponsership, the amazing companies helping them, the desire, and the technical knowledge to push the limits...and they have, but they still have only managed 10 second runs with turbo setups. Perhaps 9s in the near future, as I believe some of those 10s runs were at ridiculously high altitudes. But 7s at this point (especially in FWD models) seems impossible and you will most likely meet up with more cynicism than brainstorming. I don't mean to talk down on this forum or any of it's members, but as I said before...we hear it alot and see few results.

All I can say is don't dismiss the idea, or get defensive, it is great that people are asking these questions...just realistically realize what you are up against.

Also for some good reading material and more fellow 3/S innovation check out
http://www.3si.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=42

3si.org's advanced topic forum

-Geoff

well said, bravo :)

well, your absolutely right I see your point about the rariety of them and the daily drivers that just cant be converted into 7-9 sec dragsters for practicality reasons, although a nice balance is apreciated. I must admit when i pull around anywhere heads turn from the sleek curves alone and its not something you see everyday ( unless you just happen to be select that own it, or neighbor) I love this car because it something not everyone can have. its just a shame that this seems like it will be the only "" supercar never to go sub 10's

im not down about it. im l going to keep trying, I know im not that far off from finding the right set up to do it.

but thanks for your imput

-TurpsGT-

on 3si IPO has gutted an FWD 3S. retrofitted a single Turbo setup. He is down to 2700 lbs and running low12's and still need tuning.

on 3si IPO has gutted an FWD 3S. retrofitted a single Turbo setup. He is down to 2700 lbs and running low12's and still need tuning.

yeah alan just like I said lol, hey I send u a e-mail with a specialfavor!!

If you sent and e-mail I do not recall receiving it.

does anyone know what compression and boost setting he was runing, was there wheel spins or anything else to factor in?

not off hand.

Goto the foprums at 3si.org and do a search for "SL-T" and posts by user "Imp Pwr Online"