Pics of my DET motor

Hello all...most of you know that I got my det motor just sitting in my garage, here's some pics of it...enjoy :D

ooooh, lots of engines...this place, Japanese Engine Land is great!!!! I get engines from him all the time and this time, they even had a RB26DETT motor there!!! woohoo :D :D :D

me (in the GReddy shirt) and my super genius friend stepping on seas of engine to get to the real treasure...my motor! ;)

alas i get to see my engine....kinda scary cuz im afraid of heights hehehe :D

oooooooooh....ahhhhhhhhh....wwwoooowoowow...tuuuuu urrrbooooo :eek: :eek: :eek:

this pic is taken at around 2-3 AM!...taking off all the junk that i dont need...such as the top mount, all the cut hoses and chopped harness

after everything is off....

this engine is VERY clean...although a 1993 motor, it only has 12000miles on it and there's barely any grease or dirt on it.
using a t28 garret turbo, factory rating is 225hp @ 8.5 psi with 220lb torque i believe.

i have this badboy on a pretty engine stand and as soon as i get to it, i'll post more pics of it all shined up by lots and LOTS of simple green!:smoka:

Real Niiiice!!!:D

woohoo!!!

lol.. those were lots of engines.. jeez :D

Beautiful . . . how long before you install your new toy?

Are you going to switch to front mount or make the top mount intercooler work for you?

The firs thing that came to mind - THE PROMISE LAND!!! :)

Are you planning to put the JUN kit on this motor or sth else?

Nice pics Luke.

I cant beleive the amount of motors in that place :eek: :eek:

Is that the DET motor out of a GTiR Pulsar (Sunny). Ill be real interested to know how easy it is to install and what extras you need to add (i.e. Computer etc). Dam, your car will be like a god! What could be better or more fun than a turbo powered Primera with 225 hp! Can wait to see the result!

actually the GTI-r's DET is a little different...

the intercooler is also top mounted, but it is directly over the valve cover, not over the intake manifold like the Bluebird DET ;)


hmm.. i better shut up and let Luke answer all your questions before i end up stealing his glory, lol !!! :angel:


anyway.... here's a GTI-R DET you can see the difference..

http://www.gti-r.org/main/gtirs/CR/craig-gtir3.jpg

Sweet. Do you have this places pone number? web site? Thanks

Id recommend getting a front mounted intercooler rather than those top mounted "Interwarmers". How can an intercooler that sits on top of a hot engine possibly cool down the turbo! Sounds pretty stupid if u ask me!

thanks for all the cool comments :)
for the intercooler..if you notice the picture, i took off the top mount intercooler because it would barely clear the stock hood and without hood scoops, it would be an interHOTTER hehe...
anyway, i already got me a nice fat HKS intercooler core with custom endtanks...the intercooler is pretty big, fills up the entire stock opening...in fact, i am gonna cut the stock bumper about an inch taller just to show off more of the intercooler...Digital Racer's logo would also be on :D
how ez to install the motor? VERY ez but that's assuming the det motor you get has all the right parts on it and that it's working.
its basically a reversal of taking off the long block and mounting it back on the tranny housing...of course tuning it is VERY important and you better know someone to do it or it's gonna run shitty.
Some one also asked how to contact the place where i got my motor..it's called Japanese Engine Land...site is not avialable yet and i dont have the number handy....the motor itself is $1600, not including front mount intercooler, BOV, ecu, harness....
my motor is off a 1993 4wd Bluebird

Speaking of DET - who was it thats supposed to be realeasing a turbo kit for our cars soon?

Chris
I might have a slushbox but dammit I can dream of fast cars!

it was JWT and it'll probably be out by 2030!!!!!

wooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:p

yeh, the JWT kit will probably never be out...hehe, but i wouldn't suggest getting any turbo kits for the DE motor....cuz the JWT kit lists at $3700, the hotshot kit list at around $3200 and all these kits come with the same small turbo that's found on the stock DET motor. A DET motor would only cost you $1700-2000. And neither of these turbo kits includes an intercooler...once u get the turbo kit, u wouldneed to upgrade the pistons to hold more boost, get larger injectors...it's A LOT more than the motor swap.

Actually Luke,

The JWT kit isn't quite as ballsy as the DET setup, from what I've found it's meant to provide moderate horsepower gains.

The kit is designed to be used on a stock SR20DE without the addition of a blow off valve . . . and of course without having to upgrade any of the internals. It's just enough for our stock blocks to handle.

Not insane amounts of boost . . . but enough to get you going, and pretty quickly at that.

I forget what kind of numbers exactly.

Which makes your other point quite interesting . . . what exactly makes the $3000+ price worth it?

on the JWT tests of a 99 G20t (manual) the kit put out 177hp to the wheels on the dyno...

i belive everything else was stock..

Yeah those are pretty sweet numbers considering EVERYthing else was stock. Add intake, cams, exhaust and your prbably close to 200whp. Not bad but you'd also need 270cc injectors and maybe a bigger MAF.

Turboing the stock DE is not that bad of an idea. Sounds like Luke got a smokin' deal on the DET. Usually they cost aroud $3k anyway, I guess prices are going down. You can get a FMAX kit for around $4500 and this comes with everything. The DE can be boosted to about 10psi before you need to upgrade the ignition. Also after about 12psi you need water injection or have to get low comp pistions etc. I'll try and write up a guide to boosting the DE or get some info together and put it all in one place. This will be posted on G20.net of course.

Keep in mind too that these kits (Hotshot and Fmax) don't have the piping for the G20 and there is no ECU for the 99+ G20's. Some sort of computer tuning is a MUST when you start boosting or go to higher compressions. The Apex-i AFC, AFI, AFwhatever's are pretty micky mouse. A JWT, JUN, Motec or Tec-II computers are a much better solution.

So I'm assuming that naturally, the JWT kit would include ECU upgrading (?) . . .

yeah.. i had posted what JWT said in another thread..

the thread was called JWT Turbo Kit in May 2001 issue of Import Tuner


"the kit consists of a cast-iron header, T3/T28 turbocharger and all needed piping and hardware. The fuel system utilizes factory injectors and a JWT reprogrammed ECU. The modest 6.5 psi of boost requires no blow off valve. An optional air/air intercooler is planned for the future, and JWT's inventory contains plenty of race parts (such as low compression pistons, rods, etc.), that can make the kit a good foundation for a full race set-up."

actually, to run low boost, 8.5 and below, there's no need to remap the DE ecu. the AFC will be able to handle all the fueling when running low boost. that's how i am going to do it because the DET ecu always runs too rich with low boost. But a AFC is a must when running with stock ecu. THe reason for this is because i am planning on upgrading to the HKS GT25 ballbaring turbo later on and at that point i would need to remap ecu for sure...i dont want to get it done twice. my tuner shop done plenty of DETs in sentras/200sx with stock ecu and got 200hp at wheel on almost all of them!
the jwt turbo kit doesnt include the ecu remap (no need anyways since it's running at 6.5psi)....what a big rip off.....
if you do decide to go with the jwt, to get more power, get larger injectors like jason mentioned...but get 370cc instead...370 is the size on the det motors...and if you wanna go higher boost, you have to LOWER the compression instead of raising it...meaning get thicker headgasket...and greddy pistons for 800!! hehe

I know the price tag is high but hell if you get a warranty on the parts and all the shiznit you need it might not be bad for people like me... I don't want to tear half the car apart, and I have an Auto tranny, I know that the 5spds even have trouble above 200hp.... so 180ish will be great just enough ummmhhh without getting into reliability issues (at least I hope)....
Chris

trouble over 200hp for a 5 speed??? please!!! the factory Bluebird comes with 225hp!!! what kinda trouble do you mean? too fast? too much torque?
and there is absolutely no reliablility issues with the det motor..they are, indeed, factory NISSAN part...not aftermarket like the JWT and others...:D

8.5psi on a stock DE with out a remapped ECU would be dangerous! I wouldn't recommend it and the AFC, well I guess you could get away with that but if you have a P10 get the JWT ecu. Personally I'll wait. Luke you'd be fine at 8.5 on the DET, no problem but personally I don't like the idea of the AFC and those other piggy back modules.

As for the vapor JWT kit....the ECU is mandatory! (and included) 6.5 psi without a remapped ecu will blow it up! Seriously I cannot stress enough how important modified timing maps are on a boosted DE.

If you have a DE and plan on high boosting it please, please don't get a thicker gasket to lower compression. It will change the cam timing. Low comp pistons are the only way to go, make sure you get them spec correctly though.

Some of these things aren't necessarly bad for your motor, but if you do it right it could mean the difference between your engine running like a champ or running like a hot cammed V8 on shitty gas. :)

My SR20DE primer and Turbo articles will hopefully explain what can and cannot be done to a DE and DET safely. I'm not going to get into innovative hard core racing stuff in them but I want you guys to have reliable hi-po motors. I'm plannig on also running it past some of the more prominent SR20 guys, on the SE-R list for accuracy.

I think all of the Sentra and NX guys that I know with swapped DETs have JWT ECU's tuned to run the JDM DETs. Luke, if you're using an AFC with the stock ECU on those DET swaps I can almost bet you'd see performance increases, at the same boost level, and better drivability if you had the JWT ECU. Ever tested it?

G22DET - you forget the bluebird and GTi-R are different tranny than the US ones, check out the SE-R.net mailing list archives, all the guys there have had trouble with their trannys (all the turbo guys that is) Third gear can't handle it, there was just a group buy for a 3 or 4 thousand dollar tranny upgrade.... I forget who does the 5spds, but the autos are done by level 10.... The GTi-R cars have AWD trannies correct? and the bluebird is the same or a 6spd or something isn't it? I forget but you can't bolt them on a us P10 or P11....... For once I'm not pulling something out of my ass lol... I have a '97 200sx sitting here with the engine and tranny pulled BEGGING for a DET, but I figure its not worth my time and money at the moment to make it reliable anyways... If I got a DET I'd tinker towards upwards of 300hp, and I'd go through trannies like I do underwear (1 a month hehehe) Seriously though check the SE-R.net mailing archives, one guy even had pics of what 3rd gear looks like after about 225hp for a few months.....

Chris - all for turbo - but understands mo power mo problems hehe

mauiblue...the factory tranny is plenty enough for at least 300hp....please remember that the p11 tranny comes with lsd and is far stronger than the tranny in the sentras. of course we cant compare the GTiR tranny because ti's totally different....they are 4wd and the P11 is fwd....u can only bolt 4wd trannies on.....4wd! hehe...
i dont understand why u think the det is not reliable??? it's made by nissan and used on a nissan and assume u get it done right...it'll be running just as good if not better than your factory engine
most people tune their turbo engines for drag purposes because drag is such a dominate "sport" here, that's why their engine set up might be too much for the tranny...remember that in drag all the power comes in within 12 seconds......for me, since i do lots of road racing, ti's a different story on how to build up the engine.
jason, for the DE motor, if you run 8.5 WITHOUT remap ecu, it's suidcide....but for the DET is perfectly okay with the help of the AFC..actually, the apex AFC is very useful if you know how to tune it properly, it's a very useful tool in terms of fine tuning and problem shooting. But there is no performance difference between stock ecu and det ecu if you keep boost at factory level. That has been done...but of course if you do plan on upgrading the det motor, a remapped ecu is a must. Im just not getting that done right now because there's no need right now.
as for testing it....i really cant 'test' it since i havent actually gotten the motor in my car...but from what the tuners say (Greddy, SP Engineering, JUN...i work pretty close with these peeps) their recommendation and cars taht they've worked on told me taht i can run perfectly with the stock ecu..of course, once i get the motor in, i'll update everyone :D

Luke.....have you seen the thread in the Honda section "The best performing civic i have seen" ????
Maybe some help or info in there for you.
They are fitting a Nissan motor into a civic...same one as you motor ???

Luke - incorrect some sentras, and most 200sx se-r's had the LSD, (I have my 98 brochure right here) (also there is a site somewhere that can tell you how to look at the tranny id # and see if a sentra has the LSD) which still doesn't correct the weak third gear... I'm just saying look into it, I did..... There are a ton of turbo guys on the SE-R mailing list and all of them have run into trouble.... If you asked any of the experts on the subject, they'd tell you that 300hp and expecting the factory tranny to hold it just isn't going to happen - Im wishing best of luck to you in your swap - but if you have it all out better to do it once right and be done with it.... Only major difference between G20 and the sentra/200sx tranny is ratio... third gear is still a problem.... I believe one person actually recently suggested putting the G20 tranny gears in the 200sx case and they said there would still be trouble - the only thing that changes is the gear ratios...... Search the archives or search for Mike Kojima he is the turbo/nissan god.... He'll have plenty of good info to share....

Most of the guys in the list are every day drivers, some do drag but not a lot, and they still have trouble... I'm not saying that the SR20DE, or DET is not reliable if I thought that I wouldn't have bought the car, the engines are near bullet proof.... what I am saying is that the amercian made tranny for these cars was made for 150hp - not 200, not 250, and definately not 300..... The other cars, with the AWD trannies and such are factory turbo, factory 200+ hp and the trannies ARE made to hold it....Thats where I see the reliability issue... I'm holding off until the guys on the list get their new trannys put back together and get some data on how well that holds up... All I'm saying is look into it to save some headaches in the future....

Congrats on the engine though.
Chris

oh ok..i didnt know sentras/200sx comes with LSD, thanks for the tip.
As far as tranny goes, all my sources says it's okay if I stay with everything in stock DET trim meaning that it'll be okay for 225hp. My sources are quite knowledgeable...u know, GReddy, JUN...and those guys hehe...anyway, my motor did come with the tranny from the Bluebird and I did think about swapping out the internals from the awd tranny into my tranny...the internals should be the same...but it's gonna cost me some money to do that...if you ever try to open up a tranny u'll know it's very difficult and time consuming.
anyway, thanks for the tips, i dont search the se-r archive that much cuz i always kick it at different tuner shops to talk about all these crazy stuff but i am sure it has lots of useful info on it.
Digital Racer will be representing in the coming up Import Showoff in August in Little Tokyo, CA...it's end of August so hopefully I'll have my engine up...hmmm...G20t with 225hp..cant wait!!! Finally...the G20"T" means something more than just fog lights and leather seats..hehe

One final suggestion - you have heard of the infamous bearing trouble haven't you? Everyone and I mean everyone that has had a J-Spec motor imported has had this happen either right away or down the road, they aren't to expensive and its an easy fix while the engine is pulled, I'd drop the pan, clean it out real good and swap them out..... This is a worthwhile piece of info cuz many many many many have spun bearings.....

Chris
If I only did as much research on my school stuff as I did DET'ing my car I may have gotten straight A's!

Luke, like I said you could probably get away with the AFC/stock DE ECU/DET because of the lower compression. You've got a bit more leyway. Using an AFC for your ECU tuning on a turbo'd DE, well I wouldn't recommend it. I still think a properly tuned ECU with 3D timing and boost maps would give better performance and drivability, not to mention reliability. You're not really boosting the crap out of the DET though so you should be OK. All it takes is a hot day and 1 lean second and you've got slag for a motor...be careful ;)

I still don't like the AFC, etc for tuning at all...and I never will. If JWT doesn't come out with an ECU by the time I get around to turboing my DE I'll probably go with a nice programmable unit like the TEC-II. Now that's a sweet DYI tuning tool.

Jason..actually if you want a kick ass tuning device Motec has all the gizmo you need :licker:
yeh, since i am going to put in the DET motor and leave everything in DET factory form (for now) everything would be fine...i can drive it to las vegas and back no problem :D
for those who wants to turbo the DE motor, however, better get something to manage it.
mauiblue..about the bearing thing, do you mean the rod bearings? you said something about the pan, so im assuming its the bearings that pumps the oil in the engine? if so, i did that arleady..oh, just found out that i can also keep my AC compressor with the motor install!!! wooohooo

Yeah I know about the Motec, but its HUGE bling! Check out the Tec-II, not to expensive and will do most everything the motec will do. :p

Ya those are the ones I meant my bad.... as for the ECU most people cars I've seen done have used the J-Spec ECU.....
Chris

sweet looking engine, luke. i just ordered my jdm sr20de through k. watanabe. it should be here on wednesday. i'll let you guys know how that goes.

as far as the IC goes, stick with the top mount if you can!! i don't know if this is true, but i've heard the sunny gti-r hood will work. check it out.. looks like it might work. if it is true, i hope i didn't ruin anyones secret project. :p

http://www.se-r.net/about/sunnygtir/gti-r2.jpg

any hood would work as long as u have scoops in them like the gtir hood...but it makes no sense to me to have a top mount...front mount gives you more air, more directly that's why i already took off the top mount.
plus with a front mount, everyone can see it...isnt that better? ;)

yep.... top mount intercoolers are NOT the way to go..

if you've ever seen any modified GTI-R's they all go to front mount intercoolers. a front mount intercooler is lower to the ground and gets cooler air faster. i was reading in some GTI-R artical that they did tests and you'd have to be going 50-60mph to get the same amount of cold air into a top mount intercooler as you would in a front mount going only 10mph. also, top mount intercoolers sit above the engine and as we all know, heat rises!!! ...right through the intercooler!!

BAD BAD BAD

Yikes! There's monkey dung in the air......

First of all, the Bluebird DET is 205 hp. The GTi-R DET is 227.

Second, the gearbox is *not* good for 300 hp. Some people have been lucky, but a lot of people have blown 3rd gear with 250 or less hp, even road racing.

Third, the gearbox is easy to disassemble, but the AWD guts cannot be used in a USDM gearbox. They are *totally* different.

Fourth, use a dial-a-boom, err, AFC if you like, but for what you are spending on the AFC, a JWT ECU is a *much* better buy.

Fifth, you can only use a DET ECU *if* you also get the DET MAF as well because the MAF for the DET is different (as is the calibration).

Sixth, the BB DET does *not* come with a T28. It comes with a T25.

I have a BB DET in my garage right this moment ready to go into my P10 this weekend. It has had the exhaust manifold, turbine housing, and exhaust elbow Extrude Honed and Swain Coated. It will have a JWT aluminum flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate. It will also have Unorthodox Racing pulleys (2 pulley set). Oh, and of course a JWT ECU.

I am using a HKS intercooler. It's the same one HotShot supplies with its turbo kit. It fits *perfectly* behind the lower grill opening. I just have to rearrange the PS cooling lines. No big deal. Oh, and the intercooler is coated with Swain's Black Body Emitting coating for A) better efficiency, and B) stealth (won't know it's there).

I will be running stock boost, but with the flywheel, pulleys, Extrude Honing, and Swain coating, it should spool like a mother!

Lastly, I will be creating prototype intercooler piping for the P10 with this IC and the BB DET. HotShot is planing on offering this kit once I can send the finished pipes to them to be jigged.

George Roffe
91 SE-R with the goods
91 G20 with the goods - DET this weekend
Best G20, 2001 SE-R national convention

After reading the posts I have a couple of questions:

Can it be that I don't have a MAF? (what is MAF anyway??? :)) Is this the feature of JDM and US markets?

If so, it will be impossible to stick a DET?VET :) :) in place of my Di some day, correct?

so, you are the famous GR...:) I am on the mailing list (for a few months now), although I have not posted there yet.

Nice to see you on this board GR - I never really realized you had a P10 - I've been a mail list member for a while don't post much though..... Thanks for backing me up on the tranny thing everyone though I was nuts! :bloated:
Welcome to the board.
Chris

MAF is the Mass Air Flow meter. I'm not sure what the Di uses to meter air. The photo I have of a Di engine doesn't show the air flow meter. There certainly isn't a MAF in the location you would find one in a car with a DE or DET.

As for installing a DET, you would have to consider several options. One would be to acquire a MAF (if you don't have one) and a engine wiring harness. Best bet would be a salvage yard (I assume they have them near you). You would still need a reprogrammed ECU, but a JWT ECU would probably not be an option for you since I know of only one JWT dealer outside the US and that is in Oz.

You would likely need to use a stand-alone engine management system and that would likely come with whatever airflow meter it needs.

Geo

hey P10DET..nice to know you got a det motor in...and our user name is kinda the same! hehe
anyway, my mistake on the size of the turbo..you're right, it is a t25. :)
as for the HP rating, I know the factory BB comes in 205hp, the reason i said it was 225 is because at JEL (Japanese Engine Land) they've done plenty of fwd det conversions and with a front mount and stock ecu with AFC managing it, dyno chart shows a little bit less than 200hp at the wheel. The AFC really isn't a "dial-a-boom"....running on stock boost, the AFC actually runs better than a det ecu because from the 2 Sentras with det motor with det ecu, both of them are running a bit too rich for some reason. The cost of the AFC, at least for me, is a lot better than getting the JWT ecu cuz that goes for around 400??? When I upgrade to the HKS GT25 turbo, then I'll get the ecu.
From what I've seen, with around 250hp, none of the cars had any problem, as far as tranny goes...but i guess its a concern since others are having trouble, I'll keep that in mind.
I am using a Blitz intercooler core but I need to find the proper end tanks so my piping can match up correctly.
As for installing it, you can use your stock wiring harness and just the stock ecu remapped (if you like, but not necessary if running stock boost)...mauiblue...hehe, no one thinks your nuts, just different opinions on topic that's all. I am not saying who's right and who's wrong...I don't read the se-r mailing list that much so I might not know what's going on with other det conversions...I am sure that's a very good resource for information, I talk to different tuner shops around here..reputable ones that have done many det conversions and that's where I am getting my opinions at.
thanks for all the helpful tips though...good luck on your det install P10DET, hopefully my would be in around august, that's my time table.

You are most correct about hp with the FMIC and a bigger exhaust. I'm going to run a 2.5" to keep the noise down (I'm *old*) ;)

The reason people are having troubles with the JDM DET ECU is the USDM MAF is different. The DET ECU with a USDM MAF is a bad idea.

As for the "dial-a-boom" ;) , The JWT ECU runs about $600. Further reprogramming is only an additional $100 though. :D

I'll bet by the time you get the AFC, *then* the ECU and sell the AFC, you'll be better off with the JWT ECU.

Geo

P10DET are you installing or have already installed the DET? Is it in or going in a FWD or an AWD P10. Sounds like you know your stuff.Dam, Id love a DET in my Primera.

I'm installing a Bluebird DET in my FWD P10 (no AWD here in the states).

It is not installed yet. My installation schedule keeps moving around due to business trips and other things clogging my schedule. I was going to do it this weekend (still might), but now I'm looking at two weeks from now. I am going to try to install the intercooler and fab the piping this weekend though. If I get that done, the swap should be easy.

Geo

George, you will take a lot of pictures and do a nice detailed writeup on the install, won't you :)

p.s. doesn't it say on your webpage that the g20, as it is your wife's car, will stay lightly modded? :) :) :)

p.p.s. what does King Turd mean anyway?

Originally posted by ales
p.p.s. what does King Turd mean anyway?
Hehe! ;)

Originally posted by ales
George, you will take a lot of pictures and do a nice detailed writeup on the install, won't you :)

p.s. doesn't it say on your webpage that the g20, as it is your wife's car, will stay lightly modded? :) :) :)

p.p.s. what does King Turd mean anyway?

Yes, you will eventually see a nice step by step write up with vendors and solutions. :D

Well, things change. :D Kerry likes the wheels, the steering wheel, the shift knob and boot, couldn't care less about the pedals, and is cool with the turbo. :D

Ahhhh..... King Turd....

See next post. :sun:

King Turd (aka Turd Rex)

King Turd..... Well, let's see..... :D

Once upon a time there was a guy on the SE-R mailing list who didn't like something I wrote in response to him. IIRC it was something about checking the archives, but I could be wrong.

Well, he responded (in his last post to the SE-R list before being shown the door) starting off with LISTEN KING TURD....

I was dying laughing. I called my wife to read what he wrote. So, from time to time I referred to myself as King Turd and it's kind of stuck. :D

I don't mind it at all, but it's getting a little over used these days.

George Roffe
Turd Rex :sun:

As promised, here's some pics of my motor on the engine stand..all cleaned up =)
oh, one spark plug is missing cuz my friend jacked it from me for his SE-R...i dont know how, but he broke one of his??? hehe

heart of the beast :cool:

Looks all purty dude! Nice. :wave:

Hey, here's a hint.....

You can use a Z32 compressor discharge. It tapers up to 2". Works like a charm.

Geo

Luke are you going to use the same valve cover? You should see if the Infiniti valve cover would fit (don't see why it wouldn't) and get it powder coated the same color and use that. :)

Jason look where the turbo goes ...I'm sure thats what those sockets I mentioned are used for....turbo mounts.

anyhow what is the deal with the meet this weekend ? Are you going to that autox

oh yeah ..nice purrrrty shoes Luke ...I hope those aren't yours. Matches the valve cover of the DET Beast.

Originally posted by Dprotech anyhow what is the deal with the meet this weekend ? Are you going to that autox
Yup. I'll be there with bells on.