Evo 8, the US, and older Evo's

Does anyone think that this the most overrarted car ever. I'm not hating since I don't have a Evo, because my favorite car is the Evo VI.

Seriously, let's take a look.

The Lancer Evo came out in 1991. It has been 13 years, and the car has stayed the same in most ways. AWD, 4G63. So why is the Evo 8 so fucking special?

The combination of an AWD Mitsubishi with the 4G63 has been available in America sine 1990 in the form of the Eclipse GSX, and Talon TSi, and the 92 Galant VR-4, so again, why has such a big deal been made over the Evo 8?

Because it's a JDM uber-car whose JDM nameplate has been made to the US.

The Evo has 3 body designs, the first design.

The Evo, Evo II, and Evo III. CE9A chassis. The pic is the Lancer Evolution III

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/diegoaccord/evo3.jpg

The second design. CP9A chassis. This is the Lancer Evolution IV

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/diegoaccord/evo4.jpg

Still the CP9A chassis, the Evo V, and VI added widebody.

Then the CT9A chassis, the Evo VII, and 8. The Pic is a Evo 8 FQ330.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/diegoaccord/fq330.jpg

Okay... Now over the history of the car, it has evolved, as it's namesake. Until the Evo VII. The Evo was designed to compete in WRC, which all 6 original Evo's did well, especially the III, IV, V, and VI. Then came the Evo VII, which of course has the chassis of the Evo 8. It failed at WRC, and Tommi Makenin left the team. They even sat 2003 out working out bugs in the CT9A.

The US market on the Evo- For some odd reason, the Evo only exploded over here after the Evo VII. But then, most auto magazines were saying that:

"The motor is old, with no new technology dating from the 1980's.

The new Lancer Cedia chassis the is the basis of the new Evo has odd greenhouse porportions when compared to the previous styling.

The car is actually less potent than previous models."

That was said by US magazines. But I guess since it was "yet another JDM super car we wouldn't have" they could pick it apart. But once the car was slated to reach the US, things changed immediately. The Evo 8 is the exact car as the Evo VII that they slammed, yet they praised the 8. WTF? Just becuase we get it here...

Plus I believe it's the "shock phase" of getting a new "JDM super car", look at the WRX, it was praised as god's gift to us. Now that it's been here a while, it's just another car.

WRX VS Evo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/diegoaccord/22b-02.gif
WRX STi 22B- Best WRX.


As I stated the Evolution VI Extreme is my favorite car ever, and IMO the best Evo. The Best WRX is the STi 22B, which is of the GC8(K) chassis, niether of which are in production, meaning the WRX, and Evo are PAST their primes. As far as new models, the USDM STi is a better car than the Evo 8, but most magazines/people are claiming the Evo better because the WRX has
been here for 2 years, and they're still in shock. I guarantee that if the Evo was here before the STi, the STi would get consistently rated better.

Besides, any way you look at it, a AWD drivetrain, and 4G63 has been here since 1990, and the Lancer Evo bodied car have been here since the 92 Miarge, just not in a Lancer Evolution package till last year.


The USDM Engine + Tranny

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/diegoaccord/Eclipse.jpg

The USDM body

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/diegoaccord/2401a930.jpg

The result

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/diegoaccord/evo6.jpg

A REAL Lancer Evo, the VI.

hmmmmmm, I dont know what to say about your argument. When I first read the first couple of lines you sounded like one of those "the Skyline should get all the credit not the Evo!" types of people. But you have a good argument. The Evo did change a lot. Not just body upgrades but things like suspension, engine, and compers where all changed as the years went by.

When the Evo 4 came out the LSD was replaced with the changed for an AYA which changes the torque distrubution in the left and right wheels. That helps in cornering.

Over the years the 4G63 was improved alot. They added more power, and they upgraded it. And dont froget that every year the Evo gets faster and faster. Its evoloving (get it) every year for the better.

The Evo is a 4 cyl that costs around 30K and has GREAT handling. Its a pretty cheap car when you think of the performance it can do. 0-60 in the high 4s sounds good. I dont think the Evo is NEARLY as overhyped as some cars *cough Skyline cough* I think its a great car thats worth every penny.

I have to say the Evo VII was de-evolution of the series in many ways. The VI was so much greater in so many ways.

My point wasn't that Evo is old and recycled, it's more of why is the 8 getting a big deal made of it, when the VI to the IV are actually better. And that the answer is just because the US finally gets the car. But just like the WRX, when it came to the US, better versions had already been made in the previous chassis generation.

In my opion the Evo 8 is a good car, just like all the other ones. I cant say which one is better, because I never seen the Evo 6 or 7, but I do think the Evo 8 deserves all of the good reviews it gets.

the evo 4 is actually the dog of all evos, also the 4g63 has been around since 1985, and why change something so great? here in nz we have evos left right and centre, from evo 0 to evo 8MR! and in my opinion, are the best performance and reliability for your money, subarus are the most unreliable cars we've seen, yes we have tonnes of STI's, wrx's etc and they just shit themselves, especially their drivetrain!

The Evo 8 MR is a example of how Evos are being internaly upgraded, and becomming better and better as they evolve.

I'll agree the US press is intoxicated with the new child on the block, both the STI and EVO. The EVO 8 marginally outperforms the STI and does it for a few $$$ less. So what for both cars I say.

As far as both cars, heck, they're both underachievers IMO. As was pointed out the Eclipse/Laser/Talon were here in the US first. Yes, they were not factory setup as very good performers, but a huge potential lay just below the surface waiting for a few simple mods to uncork the beast.

Back when I got my 1992 AWD 5spd Talon in 1993, I did careful, track tested, daily drive proven staged upgrades, all the work and most of the hardware was my own.
Result?:

For less $100 in mods I ran easy 13.5's. This was back in 1994.

For an additional $1,000 I ran 12.4's. this was back in 1997 and with the small 14b turbo still on the car.

It's now 2004-2005. The EVO MR/STI in US trim are running a 13.2 or so. BIG DEAL.

The STI and EVO for me mean very little. We could talk about handling too, as it doesn't take much to get the T/E/L of old to handle as good or better than an EVO, they actually have a lower center of gravity.

Until these cars start pushing some real HP as the 4G63 has shown it can do, and lay down some low 12's stock I'll remain unimpressed.

They will be nice used cars in a few years, hopefully cheap, and I may buy one as a winter beater, but I'm far from fooled and intoxicated by the new kid on the block, as to me..... he is old hat.

Wow, your not impressed by the Evo? I cant say the same, even though I do understand you point about the 4G63. The thing is, its a legendary Japanese car, and will remain that way. It by FAR impresses me.

for one thing everyone forgets, the EVO is based on a ralli car, NOT a drag car! yes they have a good chassis/suspension setup for drag racing but they were not built for that! hell i know of a few evo 7's running 12.1-12.4 with only an exhaust and air filter! evo 8's should be no difference....

for one thing everyone forgets, the EVO is based on a ralli car, NOT a drag car! yes they have a good chassis/suspension setup for drag racing but they were not built for that! hell i know of a few evo 7's running 12.1-12.4 with only an exhaust and air filter! evo 8's should be no difference.... So they're a ralli car, don't do much ralley driving on the street.

And No way will An exhaust and a filter put an EVO 8 into low 12's. you have to turn up the boost and run some 100+ octane gas if you think you're going to hit those numbers. You're talking trimming off close to a full second, that's going to take at least another 80 HP, LOL! Show me an exhaust and filter that will give you 80 hp with no other changes to the car. Bull.

The Evo 8 can run the low 13s stock. I asked a guy at lancershop.com and he told me a complete exhaust system can give you 40 hp. An airfilter might only give 6-10 HP. I dont think it will run the low 12s, but maybe the high 12s. But still running a low 13 in a car is extremly good. If you drive an Evo you will know thatm because thats one STRONG car.

Shit, my Talon is running 10's I know all about strong 4g63 motors, LOL!

You are NOT going to get 40 HP from an exhaust with no other changes on that car. you're going to have to do something else along with the exhaust, like turn up the boost.

you may know alot about the earlier 4g63's, but the latter evo 4+ especially the evo 8's 4g63 is alot different, yes same block but nothing else is the same. boost is free to raise, wont cost a cent, we have 98octane pump gas here, and yes it is very possible to get a low 12 from an evo 8 with just exhaust and filter, hell i have a mate with a 1.8l lancer GSR 4wd, pod, zaust and boost and he done 12.3 down the 1/4! oh btw, your US evo 8 is detuned compared to ours ;) :P

**So they're a ralli car, don't do much ralley driving on the street.**

who said they're a ralli car? i said they are 'based' on the ralli cars!

What you need to realize is that Mitsubishi is starting to move away from rally and into "taikyu" (street endurance) and circuit racing. There is even talk here in japan of a JGTC based car for the 300gt class.

With the ever expanding popularity of street racing, the manufacturers have to "put their money where their mouth is", or rather wallet is. They have to produce vehicles that the consumer not only wants, but can use. Lets face it, you don't get too many off camber dirt hairpins on your way to work, do you?

I have owned 4 EVOs from the 1-3 and now the 7. The 7 is by far the tightest package. With no modifications, it is the fastest bang for the buck car on the road hands down.

Very true Matada! Like I said before the Evos are always getting upgraded, and the 4G63 HAS changed quite a bit. Ya make it sound as if the 4G in the Evo 8 is that EXACT replica of the one in the older Evos over 10 years ago!

you may know alot about the earlier 4g63's, but the latter evo 4+ especially the evo 8's 4g63 is alot different, yes same block but nothing else is the same. boost is free to raise, wont cost a cent, we have 98octane pump gas here, and yes it is very possible to get a low 12 from an evo 8 with just exhaust and filter, hell i have a mate with a 1.8l lancer GSR 4wd, pod, zaust and boost and he done 12.3 down the 1/4! oh btw, your US evo 8 is detuned compared to ours ;) :P

**So they're a ralli car, don't do much ralley driving on the street.**

who said they're a ralli car? i said they are 'based' on the ralli cars!
you are still NOT going to get 40 HP from an exhaust and filter. You HAVE to do something else.

And you are not going to run a low 12 with a US EVO with just an exhaust and filter. That's just plain stupid. You have to up the boost along with the exhaust and filter.

Not really, because the Evos turbo is pretty big. With an exhaust on a turbo of that size I expect quicker spool.

Not really, because the Evos turbo is pretty big. With an exhaust on a turbo of that size I expect quicker spool.It's a 16g basically.

Your not going to see 40 HP with an exhaust and filer only.

And the twin scroll design spools up fast anyhow, so you're not going to gain anything there either.

40 HP with just those 2 mods is simply very wishful thinking.

Now turn up the boost and then we're talking. But you could do that without the exhaust mod.

No exhaust mod? Thats one of the most important things on a turbo charged car like that. Think about it, more flow, means less back pressure to slow down the turbo, and then you can improve spools.

No exhaust mod? Thats one of the most important things on a turbo charged car like that. Think about it, more flow, means less back pressure to slow down the turbo, and then you can improve spools.
That whole point about exhaust is SERIOUSLY overplayed to a point on turbo cars.
Yes there's good gains. Anyone done any testing? I have.

How fast do you think you could go say on the HIGHLY restrictive BONE STOCK exhaust on a 1992 AWD Talon?

I ran a 13.1 with the 14b turbo through a BONE STOCK factory exhaust.

I then bolted on a ported 2G exh. mani, fully ported O2 housing, O2 back mandrel bent 3" exhaust, no cat, no muffler, it only trimmed off 2 tenths.

Now...I upped the boost from 17 to 22+, that trimmed off another 5 tenths!

I have to stress how restrictive the stock exhaust was on those cars, yet opening it up did very little all things considered untill I was pushing some serious boost.

I'm not saying exhaust does not help, but I used to race DSM folks cars with full Bushur stage one mods with my Talon with the stock exhaust and I was consistently beating them. Stage 1 back then had a full 2.5 mandrel bent exhaust.

Once you get into the low 12's and below exhaust plays a big role. but high 12's low 13's, it's no where near as big of a deal as folks claim. They just want to sell exhaust systems.

You put a bigger turbo on a bone stock exhaust? Damn, from what I know thats not only bad for the engine, and turbine, your turbo wont perform at its peek like that. Maybe your right about not getting 40 hp with an exhaust and air filter, but trust me in all turbo cars exhaust flow plays a huge role. Besides, the Evo's turbo is bigger than the Talons, so maybe thats what it is. If they are different, you will get different power gains.

You put a bigger turbo on a bone stock exhaust? Damn, from what I know thats not only bad for the engine, and turbine, your turbo wont perform at its peek like that. Maybe your right about not getting 40 hp with an exhaust and air filter, but trust me in all turbo cars exhaust flow plays a huge role. Besides, the Evo's turbo is bigger than the Talons, so maybe thats what it is. If they are different, you will get different power gains.
No, I didn't put a bigger turbo in with the stock exhaust. I ran the 13.1 and the 12.4 with the small stock 14b turbo. THe stock EVO exhaust is reasobably designed for the 16g turbo it has. An exhaust swap will not net 40HP.In fact I'm willing to bet if you just had a dump pipe off the turbo and no exhaust back system at all you still would not get 40 hp JUST from that mod.

Exhaust only plays a huge role once you have enough intake flow, exit flow is NEVER as a big of a problem as intake flow is.

Yea in N/A cars. In turbo charged ones I think they need good back flow, because thats what the turbo runs off of, exhaust flow. If you got pressure in the back, some of it will slow down the spool. I dont know about the 40 hp with the exhaust part, I was told that by one of the guys at Lancershop.com

Oh by the way, thanx for not trying to bash me. Ususally when people argue, they start cursing, owning people, and I'm glad we got trhough this argument without that. Thanx for staying mature.

Does anyone think that this the most overrarted car ever. So why is the Evo 8 so fucking special?
It's the latest model in a line of very competent performance cars.

The combination of an AWD Mitsubishi with the 4G63 has been available in America sine 1990 in the form of the Eclipse GSX, and Talon TSi, and the 92 Galant VR-4, so again, why has such a big deal been made over the Evo 8?
The US hasn't seen a new DSM since 1999. The Evo is new, more sophisticated, and it's all we've got.

Okay... Now over the history of the car, it has evolved, as it's namesake. Until the Evo VII. The Evo was designed to compete in WRC, which all 6 original Evo's did well, especially the III, IV, V, and VI. Then came the Evo VII, which of course has the chassis of the Evo 8. It failed at WRC, and Tommi Makenin left the team. They even sat 2003 out working out bugs in the CT9A.
The Evo VII car was not up to full WRC spec, but Mistubishi decided to campaign it anyway. Basically, it was built for a different class.
The 2004 season is pretty much a year of testing. I don't even think they are entering all of the events.

"The car is actually less potent than previous models."

That was said by US magazines. But I guess since it was "yet another JDM super car we wouldn't have" they could pick it apart. But once the car was slated to reach the US, things changed immediately. The Evo 8 is the exact car as the Evo VII that they slammed, yet they praised the 8. WTF? Just becuase we get it here...
Who cares what the Americans said. The Europeans got most versions of the Evo, from the dealer if not the grey market, so they were able to compare the VII to previous models. They loved the VII when it came out. They love the VIII as well.
There's even a British magazine named evo. The magazine is devoted to cars that enjoyable to drive like the Evo, which the editors admit, provided inspiration for the name name.
The Evo VIII is different from the VII, and the US version has even more differences. Several changes were made to the VIII to make it more practical for the US market such as the longer nose(made room for US bumper reinforcements) and the larger fuel tank(range was a complaint even from the Europeans on previous Evos, including the VII. Americans would have gone nuts). The US model also did not recieve the six-speed transmission, active center differential or the super active yaw control system that were available on the VIII from other markets.

As I stated the Evolution VI Extreme is IMO the best Evo.
If, according to Mitsubishi, a standard Evo VII can beat a 330hp Evo 6.5 Makkinen Edition around the 'Ring, I don't see why a 320hp Evo VIII FQ320 MR couldn't beat the 340hp Evo VI Extreme.

The Best WRX is the STi 22B, which is of the GC8(K) chassis, niether of which are in production, meaning the WRX, and Evo are PAST their primes.
Just because the manufacturer hasn't released anything better does not mean that a model is past it's prime. :uhoh: Did people say that about the Corvette when, after several years, the C5 Z06 finally matched the output of the C4 ZR-1?

As far as new models, the USDM STi is a better car than the Evo 8, but most magazines/people are claiming the Evo better because the WRX has been here for 2 years, and they're still in shock. I guarantee that if the Evo was here before the STi, the STi would get consistently rated better.
Do you have any concrete reasons for one car being better than the other, besides just assuming the journalists are biased based on which came first?
Wasn't the Evo released before the STi anyway? Weren't the Evos 2003 models while the STis were 2004s?

Besides, any way you look at it, a AWD drivetrain, and 4G63 has been here since 1990, and the Lancer Evo bodied car have been here since the 92 Miarge, just not in a Lancer Evolution package till last year.
The Evos(especially IV+) use a more sophistcated awd system than the DSMs in the US. The 4G63 for the Evo is also built and equipped with different internals and turbos.
Using the formula you mentioned, the closest we had to an Evo in the past was the Galant VR-4. It probably didn't have the same power as the Evo at the time, however.

It's not *that* much different a motor than the DSM motor was.

Different turbo???? So what. The 16g it's using(minus the twin scroll) is very similar to the 16g that has been out for years.

IN FACT...the DSM's were going to have the 16g stock then at the last minute the decision was changed and the 14b was put in. Early DSM's accordion air intakes even had to have a spacer put in as this pipe was originally sized for the 16g.

Folks like to make it look like this is a whole new ballgame with the 4g63,...but it really isn't that much different.

Yea in N/A cars. In turbo charged ones I think they need good back flow, because thats what the turbo runs off of, exhaust flow. If you got pressure in the back, some of it will slow down the spool. I dont know about the 40 hp with the exhaust part, I was told that by one of the guys at Lancershop.com

Oh by the way, thanx for not trying to bash me. Ususally when people argue, they start cursing, owning people, and I'm glad we got trhough this argument without that. Thanx for staying mature. that's cool, we can discuss this rationally. It's an interesting issue that most folks don't see that facts clearly on.

I'm not againt exhaust mods, but I'm trying to show it's not THE big deal at certain lower boost levels that folks try to make it look like it is.

When I started modding my Talon 12 years ago I went the exact opposite route everone else did, I did exhaust LAST after several other key mods. And I consistent was faster that anyone else modding DSM's back then, dollar for dollar, mod for mod.

At one point I had the record for the fastest 14b powered DSM, (beating the LONG standing record of Marc Hallman 12.57 by almost a full 2 tenths)12.4@110 until the late Jeff Carpenter ran a 12.27,(with a lot more serious mods I might add).

Wow, you must have a fast talon. Got any pix of it?

That whole point about exhaust is SERIOUSLY overplayed to a point on turbo cars.

I have to stress how restrictive the stock exhaust was on those cars, yet opening it up did very little all things considered untill I was pushing some serious boost.



as we all know, engines work as a sum of their parts. hey u only got 2 tenths from the exhaust, but 5 tenths from more boost. do u think u would have got the full potential (ie 5 tenths) of the extra boost without the exhaust. would u even consider running higher boost on a stock exhaust? i didn't think so. considering how turbocharged engines make power, it is obvious that the exhaust system is one of the fundamental and central components in making more power, and therefore should be upgraded accordingly. the reason u didnt get much gain from the exhaust is probably because of the stock engine tune. factory runs a low tune so u arent going to get much increase anyways. but to dismiss the significance of a proper exhaust on any car especially forced induction is just foolish. by the way on a side note, a [rich] guy here in melbourne bought a r34 GTR (he already owned one of australia's 3 fastest GTR's, and he had another 700hp street monster) anyways he bought an R34 and after adding only a nismo N1 cat back exhaust and an APEX'i Power FC (with a few hours of tuning time) he spun 360hp at the wheels. (and ran 12.1 seconds) now what did u say again?

as we all know, engines work as a sum of their parts. hey u only got 2 tenths from the exhaust, but 5 tenths from more boost. do u think u would have got the full potential (ie 5 tenths) of the extra boost without the exhaust. would u even consider running higher boost on a stock exhaust? i didn't think so. considering how turbocharged engines make power, it is obvious that the exhaust system is one of the fundamental and central components in making more power, and therefore should be upgraded accordingly. the reason u didnt get much gain from the exhaust is probably because of the stock engine tune. factory runs a low tune so u arent going to get much increase anyways. but to dismiss the significance of a proper exhaust on any car especially forced induction is just foolish. by the way on a side note, a [rich] guy here in melbourne bought a r34 GTR (he already owned one of australia's 3 fastest GTR's, and he had another 700hp street monster) anyways he bought an R34 and after adding only a nismo N1 cat back exhaust and an APEX'i Power FC (with a few hours of tuning time) he spun 360hp at the wheels. (and ran 12.1 seconds) now what did u say again?


DUH!!! DID YOU READ ONE SINGLE THING I POSTED? First off we're not talking about Skylines. Second tuning can add HUGE amounts of HP, especially on a Skyline. So that whole example is worthless. Am I supposed to be impressed with the Skylines 12.1? Hell I ran 12.4 with less than $1500 in mods over 7 years ago with my talon.

I said if you're running lower boost levels, or in high 12-13's exhaust is not as huge of a deal as some folks try to make it look. Either read the prior posts carefully and respond intelligently or butt out!

Obviously I saw the need for exhaust once I turned the boost from 17 to 22+, that's when the exhaust went on.

You basically miss my entire point. As you said "it is obvious that the exhaust system is one of the fundamental and central components in making more power, and therefore should be upgraded accordingly". Well no kidding. The key is ACCORDINGLY! A lot of folks put expensive exhausts on cars that don't really nedd them, they don't have the supporting mods to utilize it. Prettty simple stuff here.

Wow, you must have a fast talon. Got any pix of it?
Currently I'm running mid 10's at 135 mph+. I'll see what I have laying around for pics.

Diegoaccord-
You really did not make any logical sense AT ALL with your initial post. It was so absurd that I didn't even read the entirety of this thread.

First off - as far as the engine being outdated - you really have to be kidding. Aren't you? Just look at the SBC (small block chevy). It has seen changes to its head over the years, but since the 60's it is basically the same. And the latest version is by far the best. And lets not forget the air cooled Harley engines. They are ancient, don't make a ton of power, but are still one of the most prolific motorcycle engines in the country. And the latest version is the most powerful and most reliable.
The EVO 8 4G63 can handle 500WHP with no problem on all stock internals. I dare you to take a 1st gen DSM and run it at that level for long.

Comparing a modified DSM with a brand new EVO is like comparing Budweiser with Dom Perignon. You can get drunk on both, and you can do it cheaper on the Budweiser, but it will never be in the same class as the Dom. You can run faster in the 1/4 cheaper in the DSM, but it will never be in the same class as the EVO.

Better yet, take a brand new z06 and put it up against a new Ferarri. The vette will win in most any type of race, but I would still rather have the Ferarri.

Better yet, take a '90 Vette for 15 or 20 grand, put $5000 into the motor and suspension, and it will smoke a brand new $50000 Vette. But it is still a 14 year old car with no warrnanty.

Better yet, buy a '90 Chevette for $500, spend $10000 to drop a 600hp v-8 into it and get some fat tires, and you will outrun all of the above for less money.

Better yet, I will have my mostly stock EVO at the autocross race at Barstow Airport in Midland, MI on Sunday October 3rd.
Meet me there and lets see who is faster.

http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/frmEventDetail.Show?psevent_id=1544&psrnd=.41122388493247500730951056294028977993

EVOlutionary

Good point EVOlutionary. But, who said a Vette can take the Ferrari? Its no contest the Ferrari would win. But you made a good point.

did anyone look at the differences between US and JDM? the 8 for the US WAS going to basically be a 7 with a bodykit, they developed a mivec 4g63 and a 6sp, is it in the states?

while its great that the US got interested in cars like the EVO and STI cause it made mitsi do a production run, i hope the EVO doesn't get polluted too much with light weight steering and luxury extras, or funny styling the way the Rex did. I think that, unfortunately, there are a lot of people in the states that fail to see the point of cars like this, and so really shouldn't buy them. when was the last time you rallied on a road? when was the last time you went round a corner? thats what many cars outside America are made for and thats where their performance is measured. Don't get me wrong i like drags, but you have to be able to see past them. also, from driving in EVO's and driving in STI's its easily aparent what is the superior car, theres a reason that the evo's consistantly get better times in stock form when tested against the Subarus. My favourite would be a 7.5 (but they aren't making it!) i went in a VII rally car and loved it, but the VIII drivetrain is much improved, shame about the mitsi "corperate face".

Who said? Everyone said. Here is one little sample:

Year Make & Model (0-60) (1/4 Mile)

2002 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.1 12.5
(the '03 and '04 have 20 more ponies and are even faster)

2000 Ferrari 550 Maranello 4.2 12.7
2001 Ferrari 550 Barchetta Pininfarina 4.9 13.3
2003 Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 4.2 12.6
1995 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta 4.7 12.8
1996 Ferrari F355 Spider 4.9 13.4
1997 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta 4.8 13.2

2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII 5.1 13.5
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII 4.8 13.4
(one magazine reported a 13.1 on a stock evoviii, but the clutch died quickly)

ENJOY!

EVOlutionary

ok so thats one type of race..... what about all the others??

ok so thats one type of race..... what about all the others??


exactly.... EVO's are homolagated rally cars but also make great track cars... JUN's lemon EVO is a very good example

About STi coming out first, I didn't mean the STi model, I mean the GDB Impreza WRX period. They already had the chassis for 2 prior years, so they didn't appreciate the STi, like they did with a all new(new to them) Evo. So, in that case, had the Evo VII came in 2002, and the WRX had stayed, people would have flocked to the Evo VII, but then the WRX, which then would be new to them would come, and as have happened, they would compare the AWD turbo 4's against each other. In such a case the WRX would have been the newer chassis for them to play with, and they would have flocked to it, whether it was better or not.

I have had the chance to drive the Evo, WRX, and WRX STi, not all on the same day, or anything, but lasting impressions leave the STi better to me.

You do have a point about the ZR-1 to Z06 thing. It did take 8 or so years to get back up. But I some how don't think it's even conceivable for the STi to be any better than the 22B from 1998, or the Evo to beat the VI Extreme of 2001.

i dunno... i reckon the MR version evo would cream the hakinen 6.5 if thats the one you're talking about. As i said before can anyone tell me if the states ended up getting a proper jap spec Evo VIII or a detuned 5sp version?

the evo consistantly beats the STI... the WRX is a different kettle of fish it competes against the Lancer GSR, the lancer only has a 1.8 which makes for a more fair battle.

i dunno... i reckon the MR version evo would cream the hakinen 6.5 if thats the one you're talking about. As i said before can anyone tell me if the states ended up getting a proper jap spec Evo VIII or a detuned 5sp version?

the evo consistantly beats the STI... the WRX is a different kettle of fish it competes against the Lancer GSR, the lancer only has a 1.8 which makes for a more fair battle.


EVO has always killed STi stock to stock, the STi is slower, it has the "torque hole" people driving stock STi's always complain about, it has more understeer, is basically a softer, more watered down machine while the EVO remains pure... hard race seats, awesome steering - 2.2 turns lock to lock, neutral to oversteer cornering, nice gearbox and subarus stuff breaks all the time - not engines, but gearboxes, CV's, driveshafts blah blah blah. the electronic chassis balance mechanisms (active yaw control etc.) also help and people seem to like them so they arent too intrusive. and dont forget who was dominating WRC a few years back

i dunno... i reckon the MR version evo would cream the hakinen 6.5 if thats the one you're talking about. As i said before can anyone tell me if the states ended up getting a proper jap spec Evo VIII or a detuned 5sp version?

Well, the Evo VII GSR already beat the Evo 6.5 TME on the 'Ring in testing. I figure the Evo VIII MR FQ340 could take on the Evo VI Extreme, and the Evo VIII MR FQ400 is probably the fastest factory Evo ever(0-60mph in 3.6 secs).

The US Evo is probably detuned from the JP model. The JP Evo VIII is rated at only 276hp(of course), but is rumored to as much as 307hp. The new MR might have even more. I remember evo magazine drove a standard JP Evo VIII, then drove the UK-market Evo VIII FQ300 with 305hp. They said they didn't feel much of a difference, so the JP version just might be making that rumored number.

"dont forget who was dominating WRC a few years back"

Mitsubishi was, WHEN THEY HAD THE EVO II - VI, that's part of m-y point. The Evo 7-8 arent as potent as the 96-01 CP9A or even the 91-95 CE9A Lancer Evo bodies.

You stating that proves my point, the Evo VI and earlier are better. Even the "refinements" made for the latest MR FQ400 can be ALL USED ON ANY 91-04 Lancer. Anything from a 92 1.8 Lancer GSR Turbo, to the 97 Lancer MX Touring, or even apply them to an actual Evo of the earlier years, and each one would give better results than the CT9A Lancer we get now.

Mitsubishi was, WHEN THEY HAD THE EVO II - VI, that's part of m-y point. The Evo 7-8 arent as potent as the 96-01 CP9A or even the 91-95 CE9A Lancer Evo bodies.

The Evo VII wasn't a true WRC-spec car, and the Evo VIII is still in testing this year. We'll have to wait until they are finished developing the current car to have a real verdict on this.

You stating that proves my point, the Evo VI and earlier are better. Even the "refinements" made for the latest MR FQ400 can be ALL USED ON ANY 91-04 Lancer. Anything from a 92 1.8 Lancer GSR Turbo, to the 97 Lancer MX Touring, or even apply them to an actual Evo of the earlier years, and each one would give better results than the CT9A Lancer we get now.

Do you know how to install the electromagnetic ACD or SAYC systems on a car that only had mechanical differentials to start with?

want some info on whats what on the WRC go here http://www.motorsportsetc.com/stats/st_wrwin.htm

I look at it this way people shouldn't argue about this stuff. When it comes to drag I say do it right and I support EVOlutionary. *lol* When it comes to all of these track times I don't buy most of the shit people say. 11 seconds at 135.... really thats funny. I have seen cars just hit hight 10's on good run at over 160mph.

For those who don't seem to understand lets look at real braging rights.

After a stop at ebay it seems that you can pick up a supra ( MKIV ) for about 10 to 15k... now lets hop over to suprastore.com... ah yes yes for 60k we can now take a car and have more horse power then god.

When www.exvitermini.com was still up you could take a look at some power as well on thier BNR 33.

As the point goes yes... the new import 4s are good for the drag and they are some cool cars....... but Ueo's AE86 at 240hp is still going to fuck you up on the turns. Stop comparing cars and times.... Listen if you want to argue about how you never do rally driving on your comute to work then don't talk about 1/4 times either. I doubt any of you are doing that on your way to work either. And if you are I hope we all get video tape copys of your ticket and possiable loss of a DL.

Most of what you all bitch about contradicts its self. And yes the evo 8 sucks compared to the jdm and the other great countrys who have been getting these cars before us. Want to bitch... send a letter to your congressmen about how the U.S. needs to stop being stupid about vehichles.

And if you all want to praise something... then tip your hats to Nissan for never selling out and down grading their Awesome cars for the U.S. And praise Toyota for Stoping before they had to.

Other then that if you want a good motor and to talk about that, even more so with a DSM (which doesn't exists since they disolved years ago), then get a life, put down the Import Tuner, go take a machanics class or two and learn that you can get killer power with your hands and some sweat.

God most of you remind me of the Honda and Cavalier owners around here. A turbo and some electronics won't get you far unless you get under there and do some serious work.

Besides any wannabe ricer can buy some shiny toys and put them on.
You show me how many of you who post know how to re adjust you stock transmission so the gear ratios are different and providing better times, then I can stomach you.