Need some advice
I<3dsm
08-29-2004, 09:31 PM
Im wanting to turbo my car when i go to have it rebuilt could you recommend a good turbo kit that isn't to expinsive
Soyo
08-29-2004, 10:09 PM
not happening dude, read old posts and you'll see that you have to swap in a TII engine, because the non-turbo doesn't turbo well and has different ports yada yada
IWINULUZ
09-05-2004, 08:02 AM
but you CAN supercharge from my understanding. no lag is a good thing!
WankelTII
09-06-2004, 09:43 PM
not happening dude, read old posts and you'll see that you have to swap in a TII engine, because the non-turbo doesn't turbo well and has different ports yada yada
bull shit! The s5 n/a cars have the highest compression and they arent even as high as the hondas that get turbocharged and driven every day. The compression ratio on a 91 gxl is 9.7:1, the s5 N/a cars had the highest compression of any rx7 and that is still less than my roomates car. My roomate and I just finished installing a home grown turbo kit on his 97 honda prelude. That is a 2.2L 4cylinder with a 10:1 compression ratio! If that can be turbocharged, so can your car! Besides i have seen it done, go to rx7club.com or teamfc3s.org there are some guys on there that have done it with no problems. The cheapest, and smartest way, in my mind would be to copy the rev hard, drag, fmax, and greddy kits for hondas, they have worked hard making kits that are reliable, now you dont have to.
I would stick with your stock ecu, and injectors. All i would change is your exhaust. Just swap out your n/a manifold for a turbo and turbo manifold, this is nice and easy because everything bolts up. You will also need a down pipe. You will need to buy a vortec rising rate fuel pressure regulator, from summit, im not sure what ratio is needed with an rx7, but hondas need 8:1 (this means for every 1lb of boost, fuel psi rises 8psi) i would say 10:1 if i had to guess, but its better to start rich and if its too rich step down, so 12:1 and get a 10:1 spring if 12 is too much. His prelude ran fine with a 12:1, but it would stumble if only half throttle was given. So i leave that up to you, but they are like $100. Leave your stock fuel pump, all you need is an extra fuel pump, there will be almost no pressure strain on the stock one, with an MSD inline 255gph fuel pump, inline between the fuel filter and the fuel rail. (the fuel pressure regulator goes after the fuel rail, of course) just bolt the MSD fuel pump to the firewall, and wire it into the ignition switch so it comes on with the stock fuel pump, i would suggest a relay. But you can just put it on a separate switch if you want, just dont forget to turn it on.
Fuel management is covered, thats all you need, it will basically tune itself, however, you are limited to about 7 psi, because stock is around 45 and 7x12=84 45+84=129 and the MSD fuel pump is only rated to 120psi, so anything more is dangerous. Its not as big of a deal as it sounds, just make sure all connections make a good seal, but are not too tight! If you use worm gear clamps it is easy to over tighten. If you are worried about this, and worried that your boost will spike, and increase the fuel pressure too much, buy a pop off valve to go with your BOV. Make sure you use emissions hose for your wastegate line. Now all you have to do is get an oil feed line for your turbo, which can be done with an adapter plate that fits under the oil filter (racing beat). And last you need a return line, you can either find a fitting that will alow you to dump into the oil cooler line, or you can tap a hole in the oil pan, neither are hard jobs, they may take alittle time but are fairly simple. You dont have to run a coolant line to the turbo, if you dont want to, but that wouldnt be extremely difficult either so you might as well.
Turbo charging an N/A rx7 is very far from impossible, and can be done very cheaply, the only difference is that you cant run the same boost that you can on a TII, but with a supercharger you are limited to low boost as well, and it costs alot more.
BTW the lag with my stock turbo on my turboII was nothing, i had an s5 turbo and it hit 10psi at 1500rpms. Just make sure you have an easy breathing intake, and big exhaust on your car!
bull shit! The s5 n/a cars have the highest compression and they arent even as high as the hondas that get turbocharged and driven every day. The compression ratio on a 91 gxl is 9.7:1, the s5 N/a cars had the highest compression of any rx7 and that is still less than my roomates car. My roomate and I just finished installing a home grown turbo kit on his 97 honda prelude. That is a 2.2L 4cylinder with a 10:1 compression ratio! If that can be turbocharged, so can your car! Besides i have seen it done, go to rx7club.com or teamfc3s.org there are some guys on there that have done it with no problems. The cheapest, and smartest way, in my mind would be to copy the rev hard, drag, fmax, and greddy kits for hondas, they have worked hard making kits that are reliable, now you dont have to.
I would stick with your stock ecu, and injectors. All i would change is your exhaust. Just swap out your n/a manifold for a turbo and turbo manifold, this is nice and easy because everything bolts up. You will also need a down pipe. You will need to buy a vortec rising rate fuel pressure regulator, from summit, im not sure what ratio is needed with an rx7, but hondas need 8:1 (this means for every 1lb of boost, fuel psi rises 8psi) i would say 10:1 if i had to guess, but its better to start rich and if its too rich step down, so 12:1 and get a 10:1 spring if 12 is too much. His prelude ran fine with a 12:1, but it would stumble if only half throttle was given. So i leave that up to you, but they are like $100. Leave your stock fuel pump, all you need is an extra fuel pump, there will be almost no pressure strain on the stock one, with an MSD inline 255gph fuel pump, inline between the fuel filter and the fuel rail. (the fuel pressure regulator goes after the fuel rail, of course) just bolt the MSD fuel pump to the firewall, and wire it into the ignition switch so it comes on with the stock fuel pump, i would suggest a relay. But you can just put it on a separate switch if you want, just dont forget to turn it on.
Fuel management is covered, thats all you need, it will basically tune itself, however, you are limited to about 7 psi, because stock is around 45 and 7x12=84 45+84=129 and the MSD fuel pump is only rated to 120psi, so anything more is dangerous. Its not as big of a deal as it sounds, just make sure all connections make a good seal, but are not too tight! If you use worm gear clamps it is easy to over tighten. If you are worried about this, and worried that your boost will spike, and increase the fuel pressure too much, buy a pop off valve to go with your BOV. Make sure you use emissions hose for your wastegate line. Now all you have to do is get an oil feed line for your turbo, which can be done with an adapter plate that fits under the oil filter (racing beat). And last you need a return line, you can either find a fitting that will alow you to dump into the oil cooler line, or you can tap a hole in the oil pan, neither are hard jobs, they may take alittle time but are fairly simple. You dont have to run a coolant line to the turbo, if you dont want to, but that wouldnt be extremely difficult either so you might as well.
Turbo charging an N/A rx7 is very far from impossible, and can be done very cheaply, the only difference is that you cant run the same boost that you can on a TII, but with a supercharger you are limited to low boost as well, and it costs alot more.
BTW the lag with my stock turbo on my turboII was nothing, i had an s5 turbo and it hit 10psi at 1500rpms. Just make sure you have an easy breathing intake, and big exhaust on your car!
Soyo
09-08-2004, 11:23 PM
dude you are gay, the non-turbo engine is a 6-port which is a horrible design, the turbo model has a 4-port engine and handles a turbo much better even with lower compression. its not all about compression dude.
it is NOT easy to put a turbo on a S5 non-turbo, and it is way different than your buddies prelude... its not even the same type of engine!
oh and you could get a supercharger off an old thunderbird and rebuild it to fit your non-turbo and it will cost you roughly 500 bucks.
oh and its not all about "big exhaust" either... buy an exhaust from racing beat or mazdatrix. they both specialize in rx cars and just about anyone you ask will recommend one of those 2 companys
oh and a final note... don't listen to WankelTII
:)
it is NOT easy to put a turbo on a S5 non-turbo, and it is way different than your buddies prelude... its not even the same type of engine!
oh and you could get a supercharger off an old thunderbird and rebuild it to fit your non-turbo and it will cost you roughly 500 bucks.
oh and its not all about "big exhaust" either... buy an exhaust from racing beat or mazdatrix. they both specialize in rx cars and just about anyone you ask will recommend one of those 2 companys
oh and a final note... don't listen to WankelTII
:)
NuTbAgSaN
09-09-2004, 03:43 AM
know anywhere i could get more info on the t-bird thing? i`ve heard it from a few people, want to know more! bwahaha!
WankelTII
09-09-2004, 05:35 PM
dude you are gay, the non-turbo engine is a 6-port which is a horrible design, the turbo model has a 4-port engine and handles a turbo much better even with lower compression. its not all about compression dude.
it is NOT easy to put a turbo on a S5 non-turbo, and it is way different than your buddies prelude... its not even the same type of engine!
oh and you could get a supercharger off an old thunderbird and rebuild it to fit your non-turbo and it will cost you roughly 500 bucks.
oh and its not all about "big exhaust" either... buy an exhaust from racing beat or mazdatrix. they both specialize in rx cars and just about anyone you ask will recommend one of those 2 companys
oh and a final note... don't listen to WankelTII
:)
You are a fucking idiot, of course a 4 port handels boost better! 4 port engines are lower compression (except 1st gen 4 ports) and thats a good thing if you want boost, you faggot! Air will flow through 6 ports or 4 or whatever, that doesnt even really matter. It IS all about compression, all that matters is that you can tune the engine so that its not running lean. Higher compression means more heat and more pressure in the combution chamber no matter what engine it is!!! So the higher the compression the less boost it takes to cause detination. Supercharging an engine is still adding boost you dumb fuck, lower compression would still be better for higher boost. The difference with a supercharger is that you are usually only adding like 4lbs of boost, so that means you dont get as much power. Making a thunderbird supercharger fit sounds like a ghetto rig to me, you are taking that off of a whole "different type of engine." There is no way to know how much boost you are adding without cranking it up to see, tell me how in the fuck you are gonna tune that!!! The stock computer wont do it by itself. But you do whatever you want, blow up your car, i dont give a shit i was just trying to help out!
BTW, more air and fuel = more power, so the easier air can flow in and out of your engine, the easier it is to make more power. Racing Beat and/or Mazdatrix exhaust IS larger than stock and flows better, thats what i meant by big exhaust, you stupid asshole.
PS, dont post if you dont know what the fuck you are talking about!
it is NOT easy to put a turbo on a S5 non-turbo, and it is way different than your buddies prelude... its not even the same type of engine!
oh and you could get a supercharger off an old thunderbird and rebuild it to fit your non-turbo and it will cost you roughly 500 bucks.
oh and its not all about "big exhaust" either... buy an exhaust from racing beat or mazdatrix. they both specialize in rx cars and just about anyone you ask will recommend one of those 2 companys
oh and a final note... don't listen to WankelTII
:)
You are a fucking idiot, of course a 4 port handels boost better! 4 port engines are lower compression (except 1st gen 4 ports) and thats a good thing if you want boost, you faggot! Air will flow through 6 ports or 4 or whatever, that doesnt even really matter. It IS all about compression, all that matters is that you can tune the engine so that its not running lean. Higher compression means more heat and more pressure in the combution chamber no matter what engine it is!!! So the higher the compression the less boost it takes to cause detination. Supercharging an engine is still adding boost you dumb fuck, lower compression would still be better for higher boost. The difference with a supercharger is that you are usually only adding like 4lbs of boost, so that means you dont get as much power. Making a thunderbird supercharger fit sounds like a ghetto rig to me, you are taking that off of a whole "different type of engine." There is no way to know how much boost you are adding without cranking it up to see, tell me how in the fuck you are gonna tune that!!! The stock computer wont do it by itself. But you do whatever you want, blow up your car, i dont give a shit i was just trying to help out!
BTW, more air and fuel = more power, so the easier air can flow in and out of your engine, the easier it is to make more power. Racing Beat and/or Mazdatrix exhaust IS larger than stock and flows better, thats what i meant by big exhaust, you stupid asshole.
PS, dont post if you dont know what the fuck you are talking about!
dayna240sx
09-09-2004, 08:07 PM
know anywhere i could get more info on the t-bird thing? i`ve heard it from a few people, want to know more! bwahaha!
I've got a t-bird supercharger I want to get rid of if anyone wants it.
I've got a t-bird supercharger I want to get rid of if anyone wants it.
FCsilvia
09-10-2004, 06:48 PM
You are a fucking idiot, of course a 4 port handels boost better! 4 port engines are lower compression (except 1st gen 4 ports) and thats a good thing if you want boost, you faggot! Air will flow through 6 ports or 4 or whatever, that doesnt even really matter. It IS all about compression, all that matters is that you can tune the engine so that its not running lean. Higher compression means more heat and more pressure in the combution chamber no matter what engine it is!!! So the higher the compression the less boost it takes to cause detination. Supercharging an engine is still adding boost you dumb fuck, lower compression would still be better for higher boost. The difference with a supercharger is that you are usually only adding like 4lbs of boost, so that means you dont get as much power. Making a thunderbird supercharger fit sounds like a ghetto rig to me, you are taking that off of a whole "different type of engine." There is no way to know how much boost you are adding without cranking it up to see, tell me how in the fuck you are gonna tune that!!! The stock computer wont do it by itself. But you do whatever you want, blow up your car, i dont give a shit i was just trying to help out!
BTW, more air and fuel = more power, so the easier air can flow in and out of your engine, the easier it is to make more power. Racing Beat and/or Mazdatrix exhaust IS larger than stock and flows better, thats what i meant by big exhaust, you stupid asshole.
PS, dont post if you dont know what the fuck you are talking about!
dude.. back up a second. first of all you come screaming in here and telling us about your friend with the prelude. The prelude and rx7 are totally different cars. Both run on the same principles but there are still differences.
I agree with you that the N/A motor can be turbocharged but WHY would you? True the compression is higher than the TII but why would you want that? Turbo engine like a lower compression because of boost. Also a another fact. The N/A motor dowel pins points AREN'T as strong as the TII motor. What about the harness? Another mess. Using his stock injectors and ECU?? Are you THE IDIOT?!! N/A injectors are 450cc while TII are 550cc. He's gonna need AT LEAST a piggyback to fool the stock ECU.
Give me a break. Your SN says WankelTII. Maybe it should be changed to BlownWankelTII.
BTW, more air and fuel = more power, so the easier air can flow in and out of your engine, the easier it is to make more power. Racing Beat and/or Mazdatrix exhaust IS larger than stock and flows better, thats what i meant by big exhaust, you stupid asshole.
PS, dont post if you dont know what the fuck you are talking about!
dude.. back up a second. first of all you come screaming in here and telling us about your friend with the prelude. The prelude and rx7 are totally different cars. Both run on the same principles but there are still differences.
I agree with you that the N/A motor can be turbocharged but WHY would you? True the compression is higher than the TII but why would you want that? Turbo engine like a lower compression because of boost. Also a another fact. The N/A motor dowel pins points AREN'T as strong as the TII motor. What about the harness? Another mess. Using his stock injectors and ECU?? Are you THE IDIOT?!! N/A injectors are 450cc while TII are 550cc. He's gonna need AT LEAST a piggyback to fool the stock ECU.
Give me a break. Your SN says WankelTII. Maybe it should be changed to BlownWankelTII.
Soyo
09-11-2004, 02:19 AM
I'm glad someone else noticed the stupid things in his post.. hey dayna, how much are you wanting for that? I'm not wanting to buy one right now but I'm just curious on what you are selling it for... devoutwankelist is gonna do it to his newly rebuilt/street ported motor soon and since he lives about 3 hours from me he said if I got one I could come up and he could help me out with the process... so anyways, like I said, I'm not looking right now but maybe something I'll do in the future
WankelTII
09-13-2004, 03:10 PM
YES, stock injectors and ecu. A rising rate fuel pressure regulator, does just that, it raises the fuel pressure. They are used in addition to the stock fuel pressure regulator and they allow for stock fuel pressure at idle. These fuel pressure regulators are as good or better than a piggy back fuel computer because they tune themselves. They use a vacuum line off the intake manifold to read boost and raise fuel pressure as boost increases. They are completely mechanical and are a very reliable form of fuel control. The higher the fuel pressure, the more fuel is forced through the injectors. So the STOCK ECU and injectors provide a sort of base line for running the car and the addition of the rising rate fuel pressure regulator (rrfpr) adjusts for the added boost. The only thing that might be needed to fool the computer is some sort of check or bleed valve in the vacuum line to the pressure sensor so that it doesnt read any boost. But i dont believe its even a big deal, you would have to ask one of the NA guys that have converted to turbo on rx7club.
Normally, a rrfpr would be hard on your fuel pump, but because you would have also added an additional inline MSD 255lph fuel pump that is rated to 120psi it isnt hard on your stock fuel pump at all. The only concern would be that all fuel fittings between the new inline fuel pump and the rrfpr can handle the high pressure. You also determine how much pressure over 40psi (or whatever the stock fp is) the car is running with how much boost you choose to allow.
I didnt mean for it to seem like I came "screaming in here," I only wanted to show that it is very possible to boost an NA rx7 and that it can be done cheaper and easier than swapping engines and wiring harnesses, ect. Not that swapping stuff is bad, its just alot of work and money. Believe me, i know, i put a painless 18circut wiring harness in my TII. It is a rather painFULL experience. My car is still an on-going project and has cost me more time and money than i ever expected. I swapped a jspec 91 TII engine into my 87 TII car over a year ago. I had it running great with the 87 ecu and an safc and larger injectors, but i decided to go with a painless wiring harness because my harness was in very bad shape and i kept having to fix broken wires and shorts and things. If you are working on a low budget, and have an NA car there may be other, cheaper, alternatives than swapping engines that will allow you to make respectable power.
With a set up like the one we have been discussing you would only safely be able to run 7 or 8psi, or possibly 10 max (depending on what ratio rrfpr is needed to satisfy the needs of the fuel hungry rotary engine) so i would suggest a pop off valve as a safe guard against boost spikes. Again, i would guess that a 10:1 rrfpr would be needed, so 7psi would be the most i would choose to run. An external wastegate would be best, because the stock wastegate spring has been known to allow 10psi or more in cold weather. An external wg would also allow for more gains in power. I am pretty confident that an NA engine running 7lbs of boost could put out around 250hp or maybe more. Because of the higher compression, every 1lb of boost would create more power than it would on a lower compression turbo engine.
I dont believe i have said anything that wasnt correct or that wouldnt work, if i have, someone please correct me. I appologize for saying anything that may have offended anyone. I would really like it if we could all just get along! :cheers:
Normally, a rrfpr would be hard on your fuel pump, but because you would have also added an additional inline MSD 255lph fuel pump that is rated to 120psi it isnt hard on your stock fuel pump at all. The only concern would be that all fuel fittings between the new inline fuel pump and the rrfpr can handle the high pressure. You also determine how much pressure over 40psi (or whatever the stock fp is) the car is running with how much boost you choose to allow.
I didnt mean for it to seem like I came "screaming in here," I only wanted to show that it is very possible to boost an NA rx7 and that it can be done cheaper and easier than swapping engines and wiring harnesses, ect. Not that swapping stuff is bad, its just alot of work and money. Believe me, i know, i put a painless 18circut wiring harness in my TII. It is a rather painFULL experience. My car is still an on-going project and has cost me more time and money than i ever expected. I swapped a jspec 91 TII engine into my 87 TII car over a year ago. I had it running great with the 87 ecu and an safc and larger injectors, but i decided to go with a painless wiring harness because my harness was in very bad shape and i kept having to fix broken wires and shorts and things. If you are working on a low budget, and have an NA car there may be other, cheaper, alternatives than swapping engines that will allow you to make respectable power.
With a set up like the one we have been discussing you would only safely be able to run 7 or 8psi, or possibly 10 max (depending on what ratio rrfpr is needed to satisfy the needs of the fuel hungry rotary engine) so i would suggest a pop off valve as a safe guard against boost spikes. Again, i would guess that a 10:1 rrfpr would be needed, so 7psi would be the most i would choose to run. An external wastegate would be best, because the stock wastegate spring has been known to allow 10psi or more in cold weather. An external wg would also allow for more gains in power. I am pretty confident that an NA engine running 7lbs of boost could put out around 250hp or maybe more. Because of the higher compression, every 1lb of boost would create more power than it would on a lower compression turbo engine.
I dont believe i have said anything that wasnt correct or that wouldnt work, if i have, someone please correct me. I appologize for saying anything that may have offended anyone. I would really like it if we could all just get along! :cheers:
Soyo
09-13-2004, 05:06 PM
well I could really care less at this point because that post is way too freaking long for me to take the time to read... I'm not one to hld grudges though so no big deal
I'm still right :)
I'm still right :)
dayna240sx
09-13-2004, 06:05 PM
Rotary tuning rule # 27:
NEVER USE A RISING RATE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR ON A TURBO ROTARY!!!!!
IF you need more fuel, buy a microtech/haltech..
In the meantime, Use a GReddy REbic.
Stock turbo should be plenty enough power if you tune it right.
Chuck (my bf) has gotten 2 differen't TII's into the 11's using a stock turbo.
BTW, stock turbo'd N/A engine will not produce more than about 225 flywheel hp w/o nitrous or a BIG port.
NEVER USE A RISING RATE FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR ON A TURBO ROTARY!!!!!
IF you need more fuel, buy a microtech/haltech..
In the meantime, Use a GReddy REbic.
Stock turbo should be plenty enough power if you tune it right.
Chuck (my bf) has gotten 2 differen't TII's into the 11's using a stock turbo.
BTW, stock turbo'd N/A engine will not produce more than about 225 flywheel hp w/o nitrous or a BIG port.
WankelTII
09-15-2004, 05:42 PM
ok, whatever you guys say, have fun with your t-bird superchargers. I hope you all understand compression now. Some of you people, who are obviously smarter than me, didnt seem to even know what compression was when i first read this post.
Soyo
09-15-2004, 11:12 PM
lol this guy just doesn't stop!
chcia853
09-16-2004, 03:16 PM
Dude!
All I can say is that you should look around first before you do anything, and you should check the internet too! Cause I know that for my friends car we are just looking around for parts on the internet. Thats all I can say dude.
All I can say is that you should look around first before you do anything, and you should check the internet too! Cause I know that for my friends car we are just looking around for parts on the internet. Thats all I can say dude.
FCsilvia
09-17-2004, 06:13 PM
ok, i see where you're getting at. But i still don't believe that the stock 450cc injectors are capable of high horsepower. Even anything over 200rwhp, the 450cc will max themselves out. And the idea of forcibly putting out more fuel than the injectors are made for, is a scary idea. I can understand if you have them bored out or such, but not from factory specs.
If you really want NA turbo, then you could probably use the stock 450cc with an extra pair of 450cc custom bunged into the intake manifold with a Greddy Rebic much like the RE-A additional injector manifolds for the TIIs. Still doesn't kill the fact you need some sort of piggyback or manual controller.
If I had an NA, then I would look into going carb. A friend of mine had an 88 GTU with the Racing Beat carbs. His car lined up with my old stock TII and he took off. Better off the line response and slightly lighter. But once I got into 3rd gear, I caught up and flew by.
Kevin
If you really want NA turbo, then you could probably use the stock 450cc with an extra pair of 450cc custom bunged into the intake manifold with a Greddy Rebic much like the RE-A additional injector manifolds for the TIIs. Still doesn't kill the fact you need some sort of piggyback or manual controller.
If I had an NA, then I would look into going carb. A friend of mine had an 88 GTU with the Racing Beat carbs. His car lined up with my old stock TII and he took off. Better off the line response and slightly lighter. But once I got into 3rd gear, I caught up and flew by.
Kevin
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