Democratic War Heroes
Flatrater
08-22-2004, 06:11 PM
This is a cut and paste, not my words but I found it funny!
Ballad Of The French Berets
August 18, 2004
There ought to be a special word -- something German -- to describe the feeling of revulsion normal people experience when reading lines like these from a single article on John Kerry by Laura Blumenfeld in The Washington Post:
-- "Kerry's complexity has been an issue since his national debut in 1971."
-- "Kerry likes to quote the French writer Andre Gide: 'Don't try to understand me too quickly.'"
-- "His friend Dan Barbiero said it comes down to Kerry's complexity ..."
Books
(Apparently, Kerry's answers on the LSAT were too nuanced and complex for the Harvard Law School admissions committee: Despite all his connections, fancy education and war-protesting, Kerry couldn't get into Harvard Law School and went to Boston College Law School instead. Wait -- didn't Kerry throw that famous, game-winning "Hail Mary" pass while playing quarterback for Boston College back in the '80s? Or am I thinking of somebody else? Let's ask Doug Brinkley!)
-- "Flying to his next campaign stop, he chatted about maneuvers to avoid flak in combat."
-- "This was Primal John ... who ran with the bulls at Pamplona and, when trampled, got up, chased the bull, and grabbed for its horns."
(I'm almost sure this was a polite reference to John and Teresa's honeymoon night.)
The problem with a suck-up press for Democrats is that with no adversary press to call them on it, Democrats develop wilder and wilder Walter Mitty fantasy lives until finally one day, when they are at the zenith of their political careers, someone notices that they're not Irish, they didn't deserve their war medals, 254 Swift Boat veterans hate them, and they didn't spend Christmas Eve, 1968, in Cambodia. (Or that they are white-trash serial molesters and unrepentant rapists who somehow talked their way into an Arkansas governorship.)
The Boston Globe biography of Kerry published earlier this year compliantly repeats Kerry's yarn about how he spent Christmas 1968 in Cambodia "despite President Nixon's assurances that there was no combat action in this neutral territory."
Only recently did someone point out: (1) Kerry was 55 miles away from the Cambodian border on Christmas 1968 and (2) Nixon wasn't president in 1968. (How did "historian" Doug Brinkley miss that in his biography of Kerry?)
The media will spend weeks going through pay stubs for Bush's National Guard service in Alabama in the waning days of war, but if Kerry tells them exotic tales of covert missions into Cambodia directed by Richard Nixon, they don't even bother to fact-check who was president in December 1968.
Tom Harkin, Crazed Moron, was shouting this week that Dick Cheney is a "coward," evidently for not fighting in Vietnam like Harkin. Except Harkin didn't fight in Vietnam either! The last time Harkin was bragging about his Vietnam service was in 1984 when he told David Broder of The Washington Post: "I spent five years as a Navy pilot, starting in November of 1962. One year was in Vietnam. I was flying F-4s and F-8s on combat air patrols and photo-reconnaissance support missions."
Sen. Barry Goldwater -- not the Post -- checked with the Defense Department and soon Harkin was forced to admit he had never been in combat in Vietnam, but was based in Japan during the war, ferrying damaged planes from the Saigon airport to Japan for repairs. Oops!
Then there was Al Gore who, like Kerry, was in Vietnam just long enough to get photos for his future political campaigns. (Apparently all future Democratic politicians take cameras to war zones.)
Gore enlisted in the Army in 1970 in a calculated gambit to help his senator dad in an election year. Young Al was given a cushy job writing for the Stars and Stripes newspaper, a bodyguard, and an exit strategy when Pops lost the election. After five months of this hygienic tour of duty, Little Lord Fauntleroy asked to come home, and before long he was safe and sound and preparing to flunk out of divinity school and then drop out of law school.
But over the next 30 years, Gore provided the media with increasingly macho reminiscences of his combat experiences in Vietnam -- almost as vivid and stirring as the impassioned account he gave of being a tobacco farmer.
-- "I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant grass and I was fired upon." (The Baltimore Sun)
-- "I took my turn regularly on the perimeter in these little firebases out in the boonies. Something would move, we'd fire first and ask questions later." (Vanity Fair)
-- "I was shot at. I spent most of my time in the field." (The Washington Post)
I think someone needs to explain to the Democrats that having your picture taken is not what most veterans mean by "being shot at."
During World War II, then-congressman Lyndon Johnson went on a single flight -- as an observer -- for which he was awarded the Silver Star by Gen. Douglas MacArthur. Only recently has it been exposed that the medal was a complete fraud, probably awarded by MacArthur to curry favor with a congressman.
At the time, no one in the press bothered to investigate why Johnson was the only member of the crew to receive any sort of decoration for the 13-minute flight that never came under enemy fire -- and on which Johnson was merely an "observer." For the rest of his life Johnson got away with wearing what historian David Halberstam called "the least deserved and most proudly displayed Silver Star in military history."
Johnson told harrowing tales of his uneventful 13-minute flight, boasting that the men had called him "Raider Johnson." One time he harangued a congressman on foreign aid, saying: "I know foreign aid is unpopular, but I didn't want to go to the Pacific in '41 after Pearl Harbor, but I did. I didn't want to let those Japs shoot at me ... but I did."
The sole surviving member of the crew, Ret. Staff Sgt. Bob Marshall, U.S. Army, a gunner on the plane, disputed Johnson's story about being attacked by Japanese Zeros: "No way. No, that story was made up ... we had never seen a Zero. It was never attacked. There was nothing."
If only talk radio and cable TV had been around in the '60s, we'd be able to hear James Carville call Bob Marshall a liar and watch the Democratic National Committee threaten to sue any TV station that aired his story.
Ballad Of The French Berets
August 18, 2004
There ought to be a special word -- something German -- to describe the feeling of revulsion normal people experience when reading lines like these from a single article on John Kerry by Laura Blumenfeld in The Washington Post:
-- "Kerry's complexity has been an issue since his national debut in 1971."
-- "Kerry likes to quote the French writer Andre Gide: 'Don't try to understand me too quickly.'"
-- "His friend Dan Barbiero said it comes down to Kerry's complexity ..."
Books
(Apparently, Kerry's answers on the LSAT were too nuanced and complex for the Harvard Law School admissions committee: Despite all his connections, fancy education and war-protesting, Kerry couldn't get into Harvard Law School and went to Boston College Law School instead. Wait -- didn't Kerry throw that famous, game-winning "Hail Mary" pass while playing quarterback for Boston College back in the '80s? Or am I thinking of somebody else? Let's ask Doug Brinkley!)
-- "Flying to his next campaign stop, he chatted about maneuvers to avoid flak in combat."
-- "This was Primal John ... who ran with the bulls at Pamplona and, when trampled, got up, chased the bull, and grabbed for its horns."
(I'm almost sure this was a polite reference to John and Teresa's honeymoon night.)
The problem with a suck-up press for Democrats is that with no adversary press to call them on it, Democrats develop wilder and wilder Walter Mitty fantasy lives until finally one day, when they are at the zenith of their political careers, someone notices that they're not Irish, they didn't deserve their war medals, 254 Swift Boat veterans hate them, and they didn't spend Christmas Eve, 1968, in Cambodia. (Or that they are white-trash serial molesters and unrepentant rapists who somehow talked their way into an Arkansas governorship.)
The Boston Globe biography of Kerry published earlier this year compliantly repeats Kerry's yarn about how he spent Christmas 1968 in Cambodia "despite President Nixon's assurances that there was no combat action in this neutral territory."
Only recently did someone point out: (1) Kerry was 55 miles away from the Cambodian border on Christmas 1968 and (2) Nixon wasn't president in 1968. (How did "historian" Doug Brinkley miss that in his biography of Kerry?)
The media will spend weeks going through pay stubs for Bush's National Guard service in Alabama in the waning days of war, but if Kerry tells them exotic tales of covert missions into Cambodia directed by Richard Nixon, they don't even bother to fact-check who was president in December 1968.
Tom Harkin, Crazed Moron, was shouting this week that Dick Cheney is a "coward," evidently for not fighting in Vietnam like Harkin. Except Harkin didn't fight in Vietnam either! The last time Harkin was bragging about his Vietnam service was in 1984 when he told David Broder of The Washington Post: "I spent five years as a Navy pilot, starting in November of 1962. One year was in Vietnam. I was flying F-4s and F-8s on combat air patrols and photo-reconnaissance support missions."
Sen. Barry Goldwater -- not the Post -- checked with the Defense Department and soon Harkin was forced to admit he had never been in combat in Vietnam, but was based in Japan during the war, ferrying damaged planes from the Saigon airport to Japan for repairs. Oops!
Then there was Al Gore who, like Kerry, was in Vietnam just long enough to get photos for his future political campaigns. (Apparently all future Democratic politicians take cameras to war zones.)
Gore enlisted in the Army in 1970 in a calculated gambit to help his senator dad in an election year. Young Al was given a cushy job writing for the Stars and Stripes newspaper, a bodyguard, and an exit strategy when Pops lost the election. After five months of this hygienic tour of duty, Little Lord Fauntleroy asked to come home, and before long he was safe and sound and preparing to flunk out of divinity school and then drop out of law school.
But over the next 30 years, Gore provided the media with increasingly macho reminiscences of his combat experiences in Vietnam -- almost as vivid and stirring as the impassioned account he gave of being a tobacco farmer.
-- "I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant grass and I was fired upon." (The Baltimore Sun)
-- "I took my turn regularly on the perimeter in these little firebases out in the boonies. Something would move, we'd fire first and ask questions later." (Vanity Fair)
-- "I was shot at. I spent most of my time in the field." (The Washington Post)
I think someone needs to explain to the Democrats that having your picture taken is not what most veterans mean by "being shot at."
During World War II, then-congressman Lyndon Johnson went on a single flight -- as an observer -- for which he was awarded the Silver Star by Gen. Douglas MacArthur. Only recently has it been exposed that the medal was a complete fraud, probably awarded by MacArthur to curry favor with a congressman.
At the time, no one in the press bothered to investigate why Johnson was the only member of the crew to receive any sort of decoration for the 13-minute flight that never came under enemy fire -- and on which Johnson was merely an "observer." For the rest of his life Johnson got away with wearing what historian David Halberstam called "the least deserved and most proudly displayed Silver Star in military history."
Johnson told harrowing tales of his uneventful 13-minute flight, boasting that the men had called him "Raider Johnson." One time he harangued a congressman on foreign aid, saying: "I know foreign aid is unpopular, but I didn't want to go to the Pacific in '41 after Pearl Harbor, but I did. I didn't want to let those Japs shoot at me ... but I did."
The sole surviving member of the crew, Ret. Staff Sgt. Bob Marshall, U.S. Army, a gunner on the plane, disputed Johnson's story about being attacked by Japanese Zeros: "No way. No, that story was made up ... we had never seen a Zero. It was never attacked. There was nothing."
If only talk radio and cable TV had been around in the '60s, we'd be able to hear James Carville call Bob Marshall a liar and watch the Democratic National Committee threaten to sue any TV station that aired his story.
FireBball972
08-22-2004, 07:10 PM
oh man that is good :lol: :lol:
too true :grinno:
too true :grinno:
taranaki
08-22-2004, 10:29 PM
In any war, there are heroes, there are cowards, and there are people who get medals for something that happens while they were at lunch. How they handle their personal experiences is a matter for their own conscience, and should be kept as a personal memory.
However,the bravest of heroes,and the most spineless of cowards both deserve to be remembered by their peers.It is only their peers, and those who have been in similar situations, who are morally entitled to pass judgement on the actions of those who have had their lives put at risk for the freedom of others.
Take a good look at the key people that the Republican Party wants to put back into office.None of them has any valid history of combat,many of them took active measures to avoid the realities of standing up for others.
The Republican movement,and the armchair critics in particular, do their country a great disservice when they belittle those who have stood in the frontt line so that they didn't have to.
God bless the real soldiers,the fallen, and those who carry the scars and memories for the rest of their days.
And remember which party is stacked with chickenhawks on election day.
However,the bravest of heroes,and the most spineless of cowards both deserve to be remembered by their peers.It is only their peers, and those who have been in similar situations, who are morally entitled to pass judgement on the actions of those who have had their lives put at risk for the freedom of others.
Take a good look at the key people that the Republican Party wants to put back into office.None of them has any valid history of combat,many of them took active measures to avoid the realities of standing up for others.
The Republican movement,and the armchair critics in particular, do their country a great disservice when they belittle those who have stood in the frontt line so that they didn't have to.
God bless the real soldiers,the fallen, and those who carry the scars and memories for the rest of their days.
And remember which party is stacked with chickenhawks on election day.
Flatrater
08-22-2004, 10:57 PM
In any war, there are heroes, there are cowards, and there are people who get medals for something that happens while they were at lunch. How they handle their personal experiences is a matter for their own conscience, and should be kept as a personal memory.
However,the bravest of heroes,and the most spineless of cowards both deserve to be remembered by their peers.It is only their peers, and those who have been in similar situations, who are morally entitled to pass judgement on the actions of those who have had their lives put at risk for the freedom of others.
I got tears in my eyes! NOT!! So by your standards you have no right to judge President Bush since you have never been in similiar situations. Show me one person on the above post that risked his life?
Take a good look at the key people that the Republican Party wants to put back into office.None of them has any valid history of combat,many of them took active measures to avoid the realities of standing up for others.
Same goes with the democratic party it is full of poeple with no or little miltary service.
The Republican movement,and the armchair critics in particular, do their country a great disservice when they belittle those who have stood in the frontt line so that they didn't have to.
No one in this topic belittled anyone in the front lines during a war. But aren't you an armchair critic? Hello POT!
And remember which party is stacked with chickenhawks on election day.
I'm sorry I can't type anymore the tears are shorting out my keyboard.
However,the bravest of heroes,and the most spineless of cowards both deserve to be remembered by their peers.It is only their peers, and those who have been in similar situations, who are morally entitled to pass judgement on the actions of those who have had their lives put at risk for the freedom of others.
I got tears in my eyes! NOT!! So by your standards you have no right to judge President Bush since you have never been in similiar situations. Show me one person on the above post that risked his life?
Take a good look at the key people that the Republican Party wants to put back into office.None of them has any valid history of combat,many of them took active measures to avoid the realities of standing up for others.
Same goes with the democratic party it is full of poeple with no or little miltary service.
The Republican movement,and the armchair critics in particular, do their country a great disservice when they belittle those who have stood in the frontt line so that they didn't have to.
No one in this topic belittled anyone in the front lines during a war. But aren't you an armchair critic? Hello POT!
And remember which party is stacked with chickenhawks on election day.
I'm sorry I can't type anymore the tears are shorting out my keyboard.
carrrnuttt
08-22-2004, 11:22 PM
Same goes with the democratic party it is full of poeple with no or little miltary service.
As I have said before, I hold no great love for the Democrats either, but you are just straight talking out of your ass.
Shows just how "informed" you are about the people you are voting into power.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prominent Democrats
Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71. (1 (http://www.csd.cq.com/elections/house_mem/h2180.html), 2 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html)) Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72 (1 (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/gen/resources/players/bonior/), 2 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html)) Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72 (1 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html), 2 (http://daschle.senate.gov/bio.html)) Former Vice President Al Gore (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2000/gore/cron.html) - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon. More facts about Gore's Service (http://www.evote.com/index.asp?Page=/news_section/2000-07/07052000Gore2.asp) Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam (1 (http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/releases/kerreymedal.html), 2 (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/Kerrey_blasts_Bush_on_service+.shtml)) Senator Daniel Inouye (http://inouye.senate.gov/bio.html), US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two (1 (http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_1942_nisei/inouye.html), 2 (http://inouye.senate.gov/bio.html)) Senator John Kerry (http://www.johnkerry.com/site/PageServer?pagename=biography), Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat (1 (http://kerry.senate.gov/low/about_biography.html)) Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea (1 (http://www.house.gov/rangel/bio.shtml), 2 (http://charlierangel.org/sbcc/personalinfo.php?page=biography&MERCURYSID=50bb9d529fab0ee55e62a998f2363dad)) Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam (1 (http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20021026/opinion/372490.html), 2 (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/11/04/1036308257655.html)) Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953 (http://www.senate.gov/member/ma/kennedy/general/bio.html). (1 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html)) Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. (1 (http://www.sos.state.ia.us/elections/voteguide/Gen_Elect_2002_Bios.asp?who=283), 2 (http://harkin.senate.gov/biography/index.cfm)) Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger (http://reed.senate.gov/AboutJackReed.htm), 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91 (1 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html)) Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer (http://hollings.senate.gov/bio.html) in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. (1 (http://citadel.edu/pao/newsreleases/archives/sy00-01/hollings.html)) Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal. (1 (http://www.afji.com/mags/1997/Jan/VietVets.html), 2 (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/IA/H/03/leonard.boswell.html)) Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit. (1, (http://www.af.mil/news/Apr1997/n19970414_970430.html) 2 (http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/vn1/wwwhbdpp.html)) Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart. (1 (http://www.house.gov/mthompson/bio.html), 2 (http://www.csd.cq.com/elections/house_mem/h0178.html)) Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served (http://www.mcbride2002.com/display.asp?id=2) as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V." (1 (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2002/races/fl_mcbride.html)) Gray Davis (http://www.gray-davis.com/PublicService/), former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. (1 (http://www.emailyourgovernor.com/ca-governor.html)) Pete Stark (http://www.house.gov/stark/bio.html), D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57Prominent Republicans
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve (http://www.house.gov/hastert/features/bio.htm). Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=A000217). House Majority Leader Tom Delay (http://www.houstonpress.com/issues/1999-01-07/columns2.html/1/index.html) - avoided the draft, did not serve (http://tomdelay.house.gov/biography.htm) (1 (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/gen/resources/players/delay/)). "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself." House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve (http://www.blunt.house.gov/about.asp) Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume (http://frist.senate.gov/cv.cfm), but not such a friend to cats in Boston (http://www.rense.com/general33/frist.htm).) Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve (http://mcconnell.senate.gov/biography.htm) (1 (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000355)) Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (http://santorum.senate.gov/webbio.html) (1 (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=S000059)) Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (http://www.bartcop.com/0305cunn.jpg) - avoided the draft, did not serve (http://lott.senate.gov/leader/bio.html). Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. (http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/rumsfeld.html) (1 (http://histclo.hispeed.com/bio/r/ib/bio-rum.html)) Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/press.htm) twice (http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0802-01.htm) in 1983 and 1984. GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years (http://www.cis.net/~coldfeet/grounded.gif). Still says that he's "been to war (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-1476301,00.html)." Huh? VP Cheney - several deferments (1 (http://www.time.com/time/personoftheyear/2002/poycheney2.html), 2 (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/bush_advisers_cheney.html)), the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service") (1 (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/GOPCVN_profile_cheney.html)) Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1 (http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/2001/05/18/fp11s3-csm.shtml), 2 (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20011219.shtml)); received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/FL/G/jeb.bush.html). (1 (http://www.myflorida.com/myflorida/government/learn/jebbush.html)) Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve (1 (http://stockholm.usembassy.gov/cabbio/rove.html)), too busy being a Republican (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/rove072399.htm). Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve (1 (http://www.usembassy-amman.org.jo/wwwhgbio.htm), 2 (http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/AuthorBiography.aspx?AuthorId=36)) Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/rr.htm) making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused (http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/story/0,3604,593127,00.html) his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing. "B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article (http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/97/06/politics-moxley.php)). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea. Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so? At least Senators Cleland (D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE) defended him (http://www.nytimes.com/library/politics/camp/020500wh-gop-mccain.html). Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man. http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php (http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php) Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam. http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/Information/bio.htm (http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/Information/bio.htm) Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations http://www.house.gov/cunningham/about_duke.htm#Biography (http://www.house.gov/cunningham/about_duke.htm#Biography) Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves (http://sessions.senate.gov/pages/bio.htm), 1973-1986 Colin Powell. What are we to make of Powell? On the one hand, a long career as a military manager (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,94626,00.html). On the other hand, accused of covering up the My Lai massacre (http://www.phillyburbs.com/BHM/powell/). Back on that first hand, one of the seemingly sane voices in this administration when it comes to Iraq (or at least he used to be). On the other hand, a clear hypocrite ("I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...") Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served (http://gilchrest.house.gov/bio.asp) in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.Here are a few more...
Democrats
Gray Davis (http://www.gray-davis.com/PublicService/), former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star George McGovern (http://www.bookpage.com/0108bp/stephen_ambrose.html), famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of missions during WWII. Pete Stark (http://www.house.gov/stark/bio.html), D-CA, served in the Air Force Former President Bill Clinton - avoided the draft through student deferments; in the autumn of 1969, Clinton entered the draft but received a high number (311) and was never called to serve. (CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/candidates/democrat/clinton/skeletons/draft.shtml).) "...it was his doubts about the morality of the war and the Selective Service system that led him to abandon the ROTC idea and to subject himself to a draft lottery. Only the luck of the draw - a high lottery number - kept him out. " (Jeff Greenfield, ABC News, quoting Gov. Clinton (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/draftletter.html).) Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, seven years in the Navy (http://www.jimmycarterlibrary.org/documents/jec/jcnavy.phtml). "Except for his fellow service-academy graduate Dwight Eisenhower, no President of the twentieth century spent more years in uniform than Carter." (New Yorker Magazine (http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?021028ta_talk_hertzberg)) Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953 (http://www.gannettonline.com/gns/election/mondalebio.htm) Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea (http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/glenn-j.html); extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters. Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII (http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/sept99/lantos2.html). Saved by Raoul Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress.Republicans/Conservatives
Political
Senator Don Nickles, R-OK - Oklahoma - Biography (http://nickles.senate.gov/personal/biography.cfm) does not list military service. However, CNN (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/CA/bios/S/479.html) lists Army National Guard service 1970-1976. Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve (http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/bio.cgi?member=ALSR) (1 (http://www.senate.gov/~shelby/about/biography.htm)) Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve (1 (http://kyl.senate.gov/bio.htm), 2 (http://www.ama-assn.org/meetings/public/nldc1999/speakers/kyl.htm)) Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve (1 (http://www.tim2002.com/timcontents/about/), 2 (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2002/races/ar_hutchinson.html)) Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, fifth-ranking Republican in Congress - did not serve (http://cox.house.gov/html/bioshort.html). (1 (http://cox.house.gov/html/bio.cfm)) Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve (1 (http://www.saxby.org/about/biography/default.asp), 2 (http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=CNIP7909)), had a "bad knee (http://www.sptimes.com/2002/11/17/Columns/Georgia_Republicans_p.shtml)" (yet somehow feels he has a right to attack Max Cleland's patriotism (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14474-2002Jun19.html)) Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve (1 (http://www.opinioneditorials.com/reviews/watts.html), 2 (http://www.jerseygop.com/GOP-dude3.html)) Jack Kemp, did not serve (1 (http://www.sbm.temple.edu/rjfox/kemp.html), 2 (http://216.156.132.11/staff/jkempbio.html)) (was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years - source (http://www.snopes.com/military/limbaugh.htm)) Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at 150% capacity (at least he showed up for his duty, unlike GW) (1 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/quayle.htm), 2 (http://www.salon.com/news/col/cona/1999/07/13/conason/print.html)) Eliot Abrams, did not serve (1 (http://www.americanpresident.org/history/bushgeorgew/bushIIstaffadvisers/nationalsecurity/nationalsecuritycouncil/southwestasianeareastandnorthafricanaffairs/elliotabrams/h_index.shtml), 2 (http://www.eppc.org/scholars/scholarID.58/scholar.asp)) (however, played a key role in subverting democracy in South America (http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=6568)) Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve (1 (http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/depsecdef_bio.html), 2 (http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/defense2.htm#wolfowitz)) Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve (1 (http://www.mnhs.org/library/findaids/00212.html), 2 (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=W000237)) Richard Perle, did not serve (1 (http://www.aei.org/scholars/scholarID.49,filter./scholar.asp), 2 (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/faith/perle_bio.html)) (is the current bloodshed in the Middle East a direct result of his treasonous meddling (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,342857,00.html) in Clinton Administrstion foreign policy?) Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy - did not serve. (1 (http://www.defenselink.mil/policy/bio/feith.html)) Rudy Giuliani, did not serve (1 (http://www.nyc.gov/html/rwg/html/bio.html), 2 (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/hillary_rudy990610.html)) Michael Bloomberg, did not serve (1 (http://home.nyc.gov/portal/index.jsp?pageID=nyc_mayor_bio&catID=1194&cc=unused1196&rc=1194&ndi=-1), 2 (http://archive.technomania.com/mikeformayor/biography.shtml)) George Pataki, did not serve (1 (http://www.state.ny.us/governor/gep.htm), 2 (http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=CNIP9141)) Spencer Abraham, did not serve John Engler, did not serve (1 (http://www.michigan.gov/engler/1,1431,7-103-704-2273--,00.html), 2 (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/MI/G/john.engler.html)) Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service (http://web.archive.org/web/20020611072807/http://www.house.gov/graham/Biography/biography.htm) as a "Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=G000359) makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina (http://65.105.56.188/jock/stories/graham021898.html) during the Gulf War. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve (http://www.house.gov/rohrabacher/bio.html) (1 (http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/CA/H/45/dana.rohrabacher.html)) Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA/49th, there were some problems with his service. (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/archive/1998/05/29/NEWS12714.dtl) Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve (1 (http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=H2771103&PHPSESSID=a0d527c261ef6deb7cf2df8eee676110)) Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Governor - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/11/timep.arnold.tm/) George Herbert Walker Bush, pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; was lone survivor out of airplane (link (http://awolbush.com/ghwb.html)). Tom Ridge (http://www.whitehouse.gov/homeland/ridgebio.html), Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam (1 (http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/ridge/bio.htm)) Representative Sam R. Johnson (http://wwwa.house.gov/samjohnson/RepJohnson/), combat missions in both Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi from April 1966 to February 1973 (1 (http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/nass/pevents/johnson.htm))
(don't ever run for president Sam, they'll spread rumors that you're crazy) Senator Ted Stevens (http://stevens.senate.gov/bio.htm), R-AK, WW II pilot, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, two Air Medals, and the Yuan Hai medal awarded by the Republic of China. Sen. John Warner, R-VA - Served in the Navy during WWII as a RM3 Congresswoman Heather Wilson, R-NM, served (http://wilson.house.gov/Bio.asp) in the Air Force 1978-1989 Former President Gerald Ford, served in the Navy, WWII Former Senator Strom Thurmond - apparently believes, along with Trent Lott, that America should have been a segregated society (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/lott_thurmond021210.html). Still, he served (http://www.dtic.mil/armylink/news/May1999/a19990528thurmond.html).Punditocracy and Preacher-types (See also Media Whores Online (http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/))
George Will, did not serve Chris Matthews, Mediawhore, did not serve. Bill O'Reilly (http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/01/010702_Vietnam_and_OReilly.html), did not serve Paul Gigot, did not serve. Bill Bennett, Did not serve Pat Buchanan, did not serve Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst' [see "The Rush Limbaugh Story" by Paul D. Colford, St. Martin's Press, 1993, Chapter 2: Beating the Draft.]) Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve, too busy chasing herbs and botany degrees in Hawaii and Fiji (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/05/savage/index.html) John Wayne, did not serve (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_004.html) Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran." In reality, was a "Liquor Officer (http://www.schlatter.org/liquor_officer.htm)." Bill Kristol, did not serve Sean Hannity, did not serve. Kenneth Starr, did not serve Antonin Scalia, did not serve Clarence Thomas, did not serve Ralph Reed, did not serve Michael Medved, did not serve Charlie Daniels, did not serve Ted Nugent, did not serve Ollie North - Convicted in the Iran-Contra scandal, at least he served (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/BIOS/cbnorth.htm). Independents
Gov. Jesse Ventura, U.S. Navy SEAL training, did UDT work Senator Jim Jeffords, U.S. Navy 1956-1959~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I have said before, I hold no great love for the Democrats either, but you are just straight talking out of your ass.
Shows just how "informed" you are about the people you are voting into power.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Prominent Democrats
Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri Air National Guard, 1965-71. (1 (http://www.csd.cq.com/elections/house_mem/h2180.html), 2 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html)) Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force 1968-72 (1 (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/gen/resources/players/bonior/), 2 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html)) Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72 (1 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html), 2 (http://daschle.senate.gov/bio.html)) Former Vice President Al Gore (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2000/gore/cron.html) - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of Saigon. More facts about Gore's Service (http://www.evote.com/index.asp?Page=/news_section/2000-07/07052000Gore2.asp) Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam (1 (http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/releases/kerreymedal.html), 2 (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/Kerrey_blasts_Bush_on_service+.shtml)) Senator Daniel Inouye (http://inouye.senate.gov/bio.html), US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two (1 (http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/citations_1942_nisei/inouye.html), 2 (http://inouye.senate.gov/bio.html)) Senator John Kerry (http://www.johnkerry.com/site/PageServer?pagename=biography), Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat (1 (http://kerry.senate.gov/low/about_biography.html)) Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea (1 (http://www.house.gov/rangel/bio.shtml), 2 (http://charlierangel.org/sbcc/personalinfo.php?page=biography&MERCURYSID=50bb9d529fab0ee55e62a998f2363dad)) Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam (1 (http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20021026/opinion/372490.html), 2 (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/11/04/1036308257655.html)) Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953 (http://www.senate.gov/member/ma/kennedy/general/bio.html). (1 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html)) Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74. (1 (http://www.sos.state.ia.us/elections/voteguide/Gen_Elect_2002_Bios.asp?who=283), 2 (http://harkin.senate.gov/biography/index.cfm)) Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger (http://reed.senate.gov/AboutJackReed.htm), 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91 (1 (http://www.fra.org/leg-center-2/106th-congress/106-cong-mil-lst.html)) Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer (http://hollings.senate.gov/bio.html) in World War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. (1 (http://citadel.edu/pao/newsreleases/archives/sy00-01/hollings.html)) Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal. (1 (http://www.afji.com/mags/1997/Jan/VietVets.html), 2 (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/IA/H/03/leonard.boswell.html)) Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW, Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver Star and the Legion of Merit. (1, (http://www.af.mil/news/Apr1997/n19970414_970430.html) 2 (http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/vn1/wwwhbdpp.html)) Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart. (1 (http://www.house.gov/mthompson/bio.html), 2 (http://www.csd.cq.com/elections/house_mem/h0178.html)) Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered and served (http://www.mcbride2002.com/display.asp?id=2) as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a combat "V." (1 (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2002/races/fl_mcbride.html)) Gray Davis (http://www.gray-davis.com/PublicService/), former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. (1 (http://www.emailyourgovernor.com/ca-governor.html)) Pete Stark (http://www.house.gov/stark/bio.html), D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57Prominent Republicans
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve (http://www.house.gov/hastert/features/bio.htm). Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=A000217). House Majority Leader Tom Delay (http://www.houstonpress.com/issues/1999-01-07/columns2.html/1/index.html) - avoided the draft, did not serve (http://tomdelay.house.gov/biography.htm) (1 (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1997/gen/resources/players/delay/)). "So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no room for patriotic folks like himself." House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve (http://www.blunt.house.gov/about.asp) Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive medical resume (http://frist.senate.gov/cv.cfm), but not such a friend to cats in Boston (http://www.rense.com/general33/frist.htm).) Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve (http://mcconnell.senate.gov/biography.htm) (1 (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=M000355)) Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not serve. (http://santorum.senate.gov/webbio.html) (1 (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=S000059)) Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (http://www.bartcop.com/0305cunn.jpg) - avoided the draft, did not serve (http://lott.senate.gov/leader/bio.html). Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. (http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/rumsfeld.html) (1 (http://histclo.hispeed.com/bio/r/ib/bio-rum.html)) Served as President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/press.htm) twice (http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0802-01.htm) in 1983 and 1984. GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means four years (http://www.cis.net/~coldfeet/grounded.gif). Still says that he's "been to war (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-1476301,00.html)." Huh? VP Cheney - several deferments (1 (http://www.time.com/time/personoftheyear/2002/poycheney2.html), 2 (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/bush_advisers_cheney.html)), the last by marriage (in his own words, "had other priorities than military service") (1 (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/GOPCVN_profile_cheney.html)) Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1 (http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/2001/05/18/fp11s3-csm.shtml), 2 (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20011219.shtml)); received seven deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/FL/G/jeb.bush.html). (1 (http://www.myflorida.com/myflorida/government/learn/jebbush.html)) Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve (1 (http://stockholm.usembassy.gov/cabbio/rove.html)), too busy being a Republican (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/rove072399.htm). Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve (1 (http://www.usembassy-amman.org.jo/wwwhgbio.htm), 2 (http://www.theglobalist.com/DBWeb/AuthorBiography.aspx?AuthorId=36)) Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a noncombat role (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/rr.htm) making movies for the Army in southern California during WWII. He later seems to have confused (http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/story/0,3604,593127,00.html) his role as an actor playing a tail gunner with the real thing. "B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article (http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/97/06/politics-moxley.php)). Enlisted only after the fighting was over in Korea. Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so? At least Senators Cleland (D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE) defended him (http://www.nytimes.com/library/politics/camp/020500wh-gop-mccain.html). Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man. http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php (http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php) Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam. http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/Information/bio.htm (http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/Information/bio.htm) Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and several other decorations http://www.house.gov/cunningham/about_duke.htm#Biography (http://www.house.gov/cunningham/about_duke.htm#Biography) Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves (http://sessions.senate.gov/pages/bio.htm), 1973-1986 Colin Powell. What are we to make of Powell? On the one hand, a long career as a military manager (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,94626,00.html). On the other hand, accused of covering up the My Lai massacre (http://www.phillyburbs.com/BHM/powell/). Back on that first hand, one of the seemingly sane voices in this administration when it comes to Iraq (or at least he used to be). On the other hand, a clear hypocrite ("I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...") Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served (http://gilchrest.house.gov/bio.asp) in USMC in Vietnam; wounded in action.Here are a few more...
Democrats
Gray Davis (http://www.gray-davis.com/PublicService/), former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam; received Bronze Star. Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star George McGovern (http://www.bookpage.com/0108bp/stephen_ambrose.html), famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of missions during WWII. Pete Stark (http://www.house.gov/stark/bio.html), D-CA, served in the Air Force Former President Bill Clinton - avoided the draft through student deferments; in the autumn of 1969, Clinton entered the draft but received a high number (311) and was never called to serve. (CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/candidates/democrat/clinton/skeletons/draft.shtml).) "...it was his doubts about the morality of the war and the Selective Service system that led him to abandon the ROTC idea and to subject himself to a draft lottery. Only the luck of the draw - a high lottery number - kept him out. " (Jeff Greenfield, ABC News, quoting Gov. Clinton (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/draftletter.html).) Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, seven years in the Navy (http://www.jimmycarterlibrary.org/documents/jec/jcnavy.phtml). "Except for his fellow service-academy graduate Dwight Eisenhower, no President of the twentieth century spent more years in uniform than Carter." (New Yorker Magazine (http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?021028ta_talk_hertzberg)) Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953 (http://www.gannettonline.com/gns/election/mondalebio.htm) Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea (http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/glenn-j.html); extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters. Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII (http://www.washington.edu/alumni/columns/sept99/lantos2.html). Saved by Raoul Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress.Republicans/Conservatives
Political
Senator Don Nickles, R-OK - Oklahoma - Biography (http://nickles.senate.gov/personal/biography.cfm) does not list military service. However, CNN (http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/CA/bios/S/479.html) lists Army National Guard service 1970-1976. Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve (http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/cgi-bin/bio.cgi?member=ALSR) (1 (http://www.senate.gov/~shelby/about/biography.htm)) Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve (1 (http://kyl.senate.gov/bio.htm), 2 (http://www.ama-assn.org/meetings/public/nldc1999/speakers/kyl.htm)) Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve (1 (http://www.tim2002.com/timcontents/about/), 2 (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2002/races/ar_hutchinson.html)) Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, fifth-ranking Republican in Congress - did not serve (http://cox.house.gov/html/bioshort.html). (1 (http://cox.house.gov/html/bio.cfm)) Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve (1 (http://www.saxby.org/about/biography/default.asp), 2 (http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=CNIP7909)), had a "bad knee (http://www.sptimes.com/2002/11/17/Columns/Georgia_Republicans_p.shtml)" (yet somehow feels he has a right to attack Max Cleland's patriotism (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14474-2002Jun19.html)) Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve (1 (http://www.opinioneditorials.com/reviews/watts.html), 2 (http://www.jerseygop.com/GOP-dude3.html)) Jack Kemp, did not serve (1 (http://www.sbm.temple.edu/rjfox/kemp.html), 2 (http://216.156.132.11/staff/jkempbio.html)) (was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years - source (http://www.snopes.com/military/limbaugh.htm)) Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at 150% capacity (at least he showed up for his duty, unlike GW) (1 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/quayle.htm), 2 (http://www.salon.com/news/col/cona/1999/07/13/conason/print.html)) Eliot Abrams, did not serve (1 (http://www.americanpresident.org/history/bushgeorgew/bushIIstaffadvisers/nationalsecurity/nationalsecuritycouncil/southwestasianeareastandnorthafricanaffairs/elliotabrams/h_index.shtml), 2 (http://www.eppc.org/scholars/scholarID.58/scholar.asp)) (however, played a key role in subverting democracy in South America (http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=6568)) Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve (1 (http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/depsecdef_bio.html), 2 (http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/defense2.htm#wolfowitz)) Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve (1 (http://www.mnhs.org/library/findaids/00212.html), 2 (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=W000237)) Richard Perle, did not serve (1 (http://www.aei.org/scholars/scholarID.49,filter./scholar.asp), 2 (http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/faith/perle_bio.html)) (is the current bloodshed in the Middle East a direct result of his treasonous meddling (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,342857,00.html) in Clinton Administrstion foreign policy?) Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy - did not serve. (1 (http://www.defenselink.mil/policy/bio/feith.html)) Rudy Giuliani, did not serve (1 (http://www.nyc.gov/html/rwg/html/bio.html), 2 (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/hillary_rudy990610.html)) Michael Bloomberg, did not serve (1 (http://home.nyc.gov/portal/index.jsp?pageID=nyc_mayor_bio&catID=1194&cc=unused1196&rc=1194&ndi=-1), 2 (http://archive.technomania.com/mikeformayor/biography.shtml)) George Pataki, did not serve (1 (http://www.state.ny.us/governor/gep.htm), 2 (http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=CNIP9141)) Spencer Abraham, did not serve John Engler, did not serve (1 (http://www.michigan.gov/engler/1,1431,7-103-704-2273--,00.html), 2 (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/MI/G/john.engler.html)) Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service (http://web.archive.org/web/20020611072807/http://www.house.gov/graham/Biography/biography.htm) as a "Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=G000359) makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina (http://65.105.56.188/jock/stories/graham021898.html) during the Gulf War. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve (http://www.house.gov/rohrabacher/bio.html) (1 (http://www-cgi.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/CA/H/45/dana.rohrabacher.html)) Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA/49th, there were some problems with his service. (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/archive/1998/05/29/NEWS12714.dtl) Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve (1 (http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=H2771103&PHPSESSID=a0d527c261ef6deb7cf2df8eee676110)) Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Governor - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/11/timep.arnold.tm/) George Herbert Walker Bush, pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; was lone survivor out of airplane (link (http://awolbush.com/ghwb.html)). Tom Ridge (http://www.whitehouse.gov/homeland/ridgebio.html), Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam (1 (http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/ridge/bio.htm)) Representative Sam R. Johnson (http://wwwa.house.gov/samjohnson/RepJohnson/), combat missions in both Korea and Vietnam, POW in Hanoi from April 1966 to February 1973 (1 (http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/nass/pevents/johnson.htm))
(don't ever run for president Sam, they'll spread rumors that you're crazy) Senator Ted Stevens (http://stevens.senate.gov/bio.htm), R-AK, WW II pilot, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, two Air Medals, and the Yuan Hai medal awarded by the Republic of China. Sen. John Warner, R-VA - Served in the Navy during WWII as a RM3 Congresswoman Heather Wilson, R-NM, served (http://wilson.house.gov/Bio.asp) in the Air Force 1978-1989 Former President Gerald Ford, served in the Navy, WWII Former Senator Strom Thurmond - apparently believes, along with Trent Lott, that America should have been a segregated society (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/lott_thurmond021210.html). Still, he served (http://www.dtic.mil/armylink/news/May1999/a19990528thurmond.html).Punditocracy and Preacher-types (See also Media Whores Online (http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/))
George Will, did not serve Chris Matthews, Mediawhore, did not serve. Bill O'Reilly (http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/01/010702_Vietnam_and_OReilly.html), did not serve Paul Gigot, did not serve. Bill Bennett, Did not serve Pat Buchanan, did not serve Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst' [see "The Rush Limbaugh Story" by Paul D. Colford, St. Martin's Press, 1993, Chapter 2: Beating the Draft.]) Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve, too busy chasing herbs and botany degrees in Hawaii and Fiji (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/05/savage/index.html) John Wayne, did not serve (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_004.html) Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran." In reality, was a "Liquor Officer (http://www.schlatter.org/liquor_officer.htm)." Bill Kristol, did not serve Sean Hannity, did not serve. Kenneth Starr, did not serve Antonin Scalia, did not serve Clarence Thomas, did not serve Ralph Reed, did not serve Michael Medved, did not serve Charlie Daniels, did not serve Ted Nugent, did not serve Ollie North - Convicted in the Iran-Contra scandal, at least he served (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/BIOS/cbnorth.htm). Independents
Gov. Jesse Ventura, U.S. Navy SEAL training, did UDT work Senator Jim Jeffords, U.S. Navy 1956-1959~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
taranaki
08-22-2004, 11:33 PM
I got tears in my eyes! NOT!! So by your standards you have no right to judge President Bush since you have never been in similiar situations.
L********t,K.Petty Officer Artificer.1979-1982.
Falls into the category of medal for something that [literally] happened while eating lunch.
Served my country as best I could.Unlike Bush.Any questions,feel free to PM.
L********t,K.Petty Officer Artificer.1979-1982.
Falls into the category of medal for something that [literally] happened while eating lunch.
Served my country as best I could.Unlike Bush.Any questions,feel free to PM.
Flatrater
08-22-2004, 11:52 PM
Carnutt I am tired and will continue tomorrow.
But how about these 2 ying yangs?
Howard Dean
John Edwards
But how about these 2 ying yangs?
Howard Dean
John Edwards
xviciousx
08-23-2004, 01:03 AM
I do not favor either political party but I must point out that, however annoying it may get, military service bragging did change the political system. I do not remember the exact election but I do believe it was Regan and McGovern (or McLellan or something of that nature) or Nixon and the same guy (I'm far too young to know all this) where the Republican victor did nothing but blast his war record all over the media while McGovern did not say a thing about his daring flight missions for the entirety of WWII nor how he watched friends be shot down and/or killed and lost the election in a large part due to this.
Right now we have 2 "pussy footers" exaggerating their servitude and claiming themselves heroes. As I see it, the real heroes are the men that didn't come back. Just my opinion.
Right now we have 2 "pussy footers" exaggerating their servitude and claiming themselves heroes. As I see it, the real heroes are the men that didn't come back. Just my opinion.
YogsVR4
08-23-2004, 09:25 AM
I like how these lists go out of their way to list the democrats who served and the republicans who didn't. Where are the hudreds of others who are current members of the government? Its pretty simple - they didn't fit with the authors predisposed conclusion.
Man, you folks on the left are entertaining :lol2: You're practically sputtering :rofl:
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Man, you folks on the left are entertaining :lol2: You're practically sputtering :rofl:
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carrrnuttt
08-23-2004, 12:45 PM
Man, you folks on the left are entertaining :lol2: You're practically sputtering :rofl:
I like your defense mechanism! http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/naughty.gif
It avoids the issue, while dismissing it at the same time as the work of a desperate person, therefore making it seem less credible!
Bravo!
If I were a leftist, I'd be offended...but it's otherwise good.
Oh wait! YOU'RE the one denying that somebody with right tendencies can't seem to support your candidate...
Man, you've been entertaining with these quips lately...what, with your sig and all, and your open glee with the swiftboats frauds and their attacks.
Who was it you called a zealot a few posts in here ago? What were you bitching about even before that? About some kind of bashing?
Does this post meet with your approval? Is there any promise in it? I remember you critiquing one of my last threads regarding that. I seem to disappoint your righteous pompousness so much...sorry.
Don't sputter now...
I like your defense mechanism! http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/naughty.gif
It avoids the issue, while dismissing it at the same time as the work of a desperate person, therefore making it seem less credible!
Bravo!
If I were a leftist, I'd be offended...but it's otherwise good.
Oh wait! YOU'RE the one denying that somebody with right tendencies can't seem to support your candidate...
Man, you've been entertaining with these quips lately...what, with your sig and all, and your open glee with the swiftboats frauds and their attacks.
Who was it you called a zealot a few posts in here ago? What were you bitching about even before that? About some kind of bashing?
Does this post meet with your approval? Is there any promise in it? I remember you critiquing one of my last threads regarding that. I seem to disappoint your righteous pompousness so much...sorry.
Don't sputter now...
YogsVR4
08-23-2004, 12:57 PM
If I were a leftist, I'd be offended...but it's otherwise good.
You could have fooled me.
Oh wait! YOU'RE the one denying that somebody with right tendencies can't seem to support your candidate...
Where was that? Are you saying everyone on the right has to support the right's canidate? Oh my, you may want to rethink that.
Man, you've been entertaining with these quips lately...what, with your sig and all, and your open glee with the swiftboats frauds and their attacks.
Of course its the swiftboats who are the frauds. There is no chance that Kerry could be. :lol:
Who was it you called a zealot a few posts in here ago? What were you bitching about even before that? About some kind of bashing?
Lets not get into the posts where bitching is the main component. You'll find that pretty much sums up the entire forum.
[/QUOTE]Does this post meet with your approval? Is there any promise in it? I remember you critiquing one of my last threads regarding that. I seem to disappoint your righteous pompousness so much...sorry.
Don't sputter now...[/QUOTE]
It shows very little promise, and it was also completely predictable.
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You could have fooled me.
Oh wait! YOU'RE the one denying that somebody with right tendencies can't seem to support your candidate...
Where was that? Are you saying everyone on the right has to support the right's canidate? Oh my, you may want to rethink that.
Man, you've been entertaining with these quips lately...what, with your sig and all, and your open glee with the swiftboats frauds and their attacks.
Of course its the swiftboats who are the frauds. There is no chance that Kerry could be. :lol:
Who was it you called a zealot a few posts in here ago? What were you bitching about even before that? About some kind of bashing?
Lets not get into the posts where bitching is the main component. You'll find that pretty much sums up the entire forum.
[/QUOTE]Does this post meet with your approval? Is there any promise in it? I remember you critiquing one of my last threads regarding that. I seem to disappoint your righteous pompousness so much...sorry.
Don't sputter now...[/QUOTE]
It shows very little promise, and it was also completely predictable.
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carrrnuttt
08-23-2004, 01:18 PM
Damn Yogs, I got you sputtering so bad, you can't even quote right...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yogs, you seem to be missing the point. You see how stupid, childish, and assinine that /\ post, and the one I did before sounded like?
That's how you have been acting lately, in a nutshell, with these quips of yours.
I can go on about how these latest posts are a sign of YOUR desperation, but why? Then it becomes an assault on your person, and I'll be assuming things about you, you're reactions, and your character that I cannot possibly prove online.
I thought you were better than that?
All of the above might seem a bit hypocritical, considering I have more than a few times, called people in here pompous asses, among other things.
Things is. I call it to their "faces", and give whoever room to respond in kind, or to rebut, without setting them up to make them look like they're "sputtering", or whatnot, with the snide way you have been doing things.
I also call people out like so, WHILE I am responding to the issue they have presented. I DON'T make that part my whole post.
I know you're not the only that has done something like this in here before, but I somehow hold (held) you to a higher standard. Shouldn't I have?
How about once again, as you have before, you respond to the issues being presented in a post, instead of assuming something about the poster(s)? Or should I start digging in the trenches?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yogs, you seem to be missing the point. You see how stupid, childish, and assinine that /\ post, and the one I did before sounded like?
That's how you have been acting lately, in a nutshell, with these quips of yours.
I can go on about how these latest posts are a sign of YOUR desperation, but why? Then it becomes an assault on your person, and I'll be assuming things about you, you're reactions, and your character that I cannot possibly prove online.
I thought you were better than that?
All of the above might seem a bit hypocritical, considering I have more than a few times, called people in here pompous asses, among other things.
Things is. I call it to their "faces", and give whoever room to respond in kind, or to rebut, without setting them up to make them look like they're "sputtering", or whatnot, with the snide way you have been doing things.
I also call people out like so, WHILE I am responding to the issue they have presented. I DON'T make that part my whole post.
I know you're not the only that has done something like this in here before, but I somehow hold (held) you to a higher standard. Shouldn't I have?
How about once again, as you have before, you respond to the issues being presented in a post, instead of assuming something about the poster(s)? Or should I start digging in the trenches?
YogsVR4
08-23-2004, 01:50 PM
Yogs, you seem to be missing the point. You see how stupid, childish, and assinine that /\ post, and the one I did before sounded like?
That's how you have been acting lately, in a nutshell, with these quips of yours.
You misunderstand (still) – they are not quips. They are observations and facts. Your posts are predictable. The hypocrisy is self evident and I am quite entertained.
I can go on about how these latest posts are a sign of YOUR desperation, but why? Then it becomes an assault on your person, and I'll be assuming things about you, you're reactions, and your character that I cannot possibly prove online.
I'm desperate? :sly: You have seriously miscalculated. Everyone here can feel free to assume whatever they want. The reality is that an opinion only matters from people who you give a shit about. Except for my brother-in-law who posts here from time to time, there is nothing said or done on this site that makes one iota of difference.
I thought you were better than that?
I am :icon16:
All of the above might seem a bit hypocritical, considering I have more than a few times, called people in here pompous asses, among other things.
Things is. I call it to their "faces", and give whoever room to respond in kind, or to rebut, without setting them up to make them look like they're "sputtering", or whatnot, with the snide way you have been doing things.
Faces? Posting in a public forum is hardly to their faces.
There is a whole lot of sputtering going on in this forum.
I also call people out like so, WHILE I am responding to the issue they have presented. I DON'T make that part my whole post.
I know you're not the only that has done something like this in here before, but I somehow hold (held) you to a higher standard. Shouldn't I have?
Nope - I am the same person I've always been on this forum since its inception (including all those posts that T deleted some time back). You can hold my opinions however you like. If you agree with them, peachy, if not, equally peachy.
How about once again, as you have before, you respond to the issues being presented in a post, instead of assuming something about the poster(s)? Or should I start digging in the trenches?
Start digging your trenches. There are rarely any issues presented in posts here. They are loosely built facts to support predisposed positions. If I feel like taking the time, I'll spell out my position more clearly in threads that have my interest. Sadly, threads like that have been few and far between.
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That's how you have been acting lately, in a nutshell, with these quips of yours.
You misunderstand (still) – they are not quips. They are observations and facts. Your posts are predictable. The hypocrisy is self evident and I am quite entertained.
I can go on about how these latest posts are a sign of YOUR desperation, but why? Then it becomes an assault on your person, and I'll be assuming things about you, you're reactions, and your character that I cannot possibly prove online.
I'm desperate? :sly: You have seriously miscalculated. Everyone here can feel free to assume whatever they want. The reality is that an opinion only matters from people who you give a shit about. Except for my brother-in-law who posts here from time to time, there is nothing said or done on this site that makes one iota of difference.
I thought you were better than that?
I am :icon16:
All of the above might seem a bit hypocritical, considering I have more than a few times, called people in here pompous asses, among other things.
Things is. I call it to their "faces", and give whoever room to respond in kind, or to rebut, without setting them up to make them look like they're "sputtering", or whatnot, with the snide way you have been doing things.
Faces? Posting in a public forum is hardly to their faces.
There is a whole lot of sputtering going on in this forum.
I also call people out like so, WHILE I am responding to the issue they have presented. I DON'T make that part my whole post.
I know you're not the only that has done something like this in here before, but I somehow hold (held) you to a higher standard. Shouldn't I have?
Nope - I am the same person I've always been on this forum since its inception (including all those posts that T deleted some time back). You can hold my opinions however you like. If you agree with them, peachy, if not, equally peachy.
How about once again, as you have before, you respond to the issues being presented in a post, instead of assuming something about the poster(s)? Or should I start digging in the trenches?
Start digging your trenches. There are rarely any issues presented in posts here. They are loosely built facts to support predisposed positions. If I feel like taking the time, I'll spell out my position more clearly in threads that have my interest. Sadly, threads like that have been few and far between.
http://www.computerpannen.com/cwm/contrib/xerx/MODhappyjaz.gif
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xviciousx
08-23-2004, 04:25 PM
I gotta get some popcorn to watch this one go down.
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