HP/L who cares???

ok so heres the deal whats up with the HP/L thing? Who are you trying to impress by saying you make 100hp/L??? for example if you have a 2.5L engine if you make 100hp/L you make 250 hp oh wow :rolleyes: give me a break are you to ashamed to put out your total hp numbers?

Ok so let me see if this impresses you I say I make 53 hp/L sound impressive? not really untill you take into account the fact I 'm talking about a 7.4 L engine in which case I make almost 400 hp.

The only thing that proves you have a fast car is an E.T. (a 1/4 time) if you want to do a ratio make it a power to weight ratio. According to physics: force = mass x accel. ,or in other words, accel. = mass/force so if you have a 4000Lb. car with 300hp and a 1500Lb. car with only 200hp. the 1500Lb. car will win hands down because it's power to weight ratio is greater.

just had to get that off my chest. :) by the way no my car is not a 7.4L and no I don't make 400hp I was just using them as examples.

my point: HP/L isn't really impressive when you are talking about a small engine and talking about HP/L in a big engine is just stupid so for the sake of everyones sanity just put out your total HP and stop making us do the math. :D

It matters becuase it shows that the people who made the engine actually THOUGHT when they built it. They though "how can be get every ounce of power out of this engine" they didnt just say "lets make it huge displacment cuz we dont wana sit down and figure anything new out, thats too hard". Really man lets take the classic hp/L example the Honda S2000, makes 120hp per liter, lets say that your "mythological" 7.4 liter engine made 120hp per liter, lets do our math, thats 888hp, screw your paltry "400HP'
And your calculations below negate what accually matters more than horsepower, torque. Lets look at another example: a stock 240sx has 127hp @ 5000 rpm and 135lb-ft @ 4000rpm and a stock civic si has 123hp @ 7500rpm and 93lb-ft @ 6000rpm. Now I would bet that even though the 240 is heaver it would wack the si off the line, and beat it in the 1/4 becuase the massive gap in torque.

ok heres an example of the best of both worlds top fuel and funny cars run a 528 hemi that's a 8.7L engine they make roughly 6000hp my math says that they make almost 700hp/L and 528 cubes is pretty damn big now I don't know about you but I think it probably took a lot of thought to get that and I highly doubt they were thinking "hey lets just make a huge assed engine cause we're lazy" that beng said. what you said about torque is very true, but both horsepower and torque must work together to make a truely fast running car. :)

what u said about torque is very true. example stock civic si 160 hp 110 (i think?) ft/lb torque, my subaru stock 160 hp 165 ft/lb torque. now my car is MUCH heavier than a civic, but if theyre both stock mine will put about 3 lenghts on the civic through the 1/4 mile, the civic will NEVER pull on me i will be pulling on him for the entire race.

oh yeah firebird, if this post was directed at me for saying something about hp per liter in another post, u should know i was being sarcastic. ;) i really dont get the hp per liter argument either. so what if your civic makes twice the hp per liter as a camaro ss, your civic still has 160hp and the ss still has 345hp.

This brings up a question i've always wondered. Why aren't tehre a lot more like 700+ HP domestics running around? i mean if you take the import fans outlook on things(ie. sucking as much power as possible out of what you've got to work with) it shouldn't be that hard to build one hell of a car. A finely tuned N/A 2.0L can produce easily like 250HP. Thats 125 HP per litre. Now why don't people with domestics tune their 5.0 litres to like 600HP?

I mean this in no way as a dig or an insult to domestics, jsut as a question. I mean if this can be done to an import why not a domestic? Is it due to dominishing returns? Like is it easier to get 100+ HP/L from a smaller engine then a big one? I can't really see that making that much difference but maybe.

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch
This brings up a question i've always wondered. Why aren't tehre a lot more like 700+ HP domestics running around? i mean if you take the import fans outlook on things(ie. sucking as much power as possible out of what you've got to work with) it shouldn't be that hard to build one hell of a car. A finely tuned N/A 2.0L can produce easily like 250HP. Thats 125 HP per litre. Now why don't people with domestics tune their 5.0 litres to like 600HP?

I mean this in no way as a dig or an insult to domestics, jsut as a question. I mean if this can be done to an import why not a domestic? Is it due to dominishing returns? Like is it easier to get 100+ HP/L from a smaller engine then a big one? I can't really see that making that much difference but maybe.

good point. i bet if imports made larger engine with the same hp/liter, so u could buy a 5.0liter mitsubishi with 600hp, the domestic manufacturers would get off their asses and try to do the same. but as it is now, theyre still winning the overall hp battle, so they dont really have any need to try. theyll be sorry when some day the imports DO make larger engines, and they find out theyre so far behind in technology theres no way they can catch up.

Actually Idelaysionl your post was where I got the idea to make a thread I understood your sarcasm It's jus something I keep reading everywhere and wanted to know why people wrote out their numbers like that. as for making a 5.0L + domestic really gutsy it's not that hard just that I'd have to agree it's cause most manufacturers are too lazy they have made some very good improvements though example: a 1990 firebird (like mine) with a 350 only put out around 225 or so HP but a new f-bird is around 350hp with the same size engine, hell the v-6 in a new f-bird will probably wipe up a stock 350 from 1990. still room for improvement: yes but unfortunetly most of our big engine cars are leaving and taking their engines with soon we'll probably have to work with small engines too :(

whats gonna be left of the domestic performance cars? vette and viper? is the mustang still gonna be here? mustangs arent that good anyway unless u get a cobra or saleen or something, i like vettes, and vipers are just too damn expanesive. are those the only 3 gonna be left? oh yeah ford lightning not really a performance CAR but fast anyways.

are they gonna make a new chevy ss fullsize truck? my friend has a picture of the concept version, i think it had an lt1?

hmm. lets see the only thing left after this year will be the Viper, Lightning,Mustang,Corvette yeah your right thats about it. the wierd thing is GM is still making a V-8 RWD Camaro wannabe in Australia it goes by the name of Monaro.It kindda looks like a Camaro but not really but you can get it with V-8 power. The ss truck you talked about do you mean the 1/2 truck 1/2 car thing? if so it goes into production late this year it is suposed to be RWD with a v-8 the plans are for the LS1 with around 350hp we shall see. :)

oops. the name of the 1/2 car 1/2 truck is the SSR it started out as a concept El camino.:) is this the right one???

Yes. There are only a handfull of fast domestics cars left. However, since there are fewer, the car companies producing them are stepping up.
Ford's Cobra is now a Supercharged 4.6L DOHC motor making 390hp/390ft. lbs.
Chevy's Corvette ZO6 is already making great power at 405hp, but when the C6 is released in 2004, the bar will be raised even more. Expect the C6 to come with more then 400hp. Also, look for a ZO6 version of the C6 making over 450hp (Chevy's goin Viper Killing!)
Now, I'm sure everyone's seen the '03 Viper also.
500hp/500ftlbs....Nuff Said.

Also, Bob Lutz, a big name in GM is looking to revamp GM's product line.
He came to GM too late to save the F-Body from extinction in '02, but he is looking to make up for it. Holden, a car company in Austrailia that is owned by GM offers a few cars that are VERY cool and have sparked interest in Bob Lutz. He has already said he wants to bring them to the US, sell them VERY cheap (we're talking under $20k) and offer them with HP levels in the 350-400hp range!

Sure the domestic performance cars are dwindling, but it's going to turn around.

Originally posted by Firebird
ok heres an example of the best of both worlds top fuel and funny cars run a 528 hemi that's a 8.7L engine they make roughly 6000hp my math says that they make almost 700hp/L and 528 cubes is pretty damn big now I don't know about you but I think it probably took a lot of thought to get that and I highly doubt they were thinking "hey lets just make a huge assed engine cause we're lazy" that beng said. what you said about torque is very true, but both horsepower and torque must work together to make a truely fast running car. :)

HAHAHA, that is too good. You beat me too it buddy. I can't agree with any of your statements any more.

don't you think domestics are getting into the hp battle with the imports???
but they're only doing it to their compact cars to match the other compact cars in the market and they're doing a poor job of it too ---> they're way of tuning is supercharging or putting turbo on their small cars... like dodge neon and making it a factory standard option. :p

there are tons of reasons that the hp/l is important.
mainly b/c of technology.
domestics dont use the same tech as an import. end of story. 100hp/l na is pretty impressive. especially for a streeter. your 6000 hp car has a s/c on it. null and void. why not look at the integra w/ the 4liter custom tt motor that makes 4k hp...

its all about size and tech.

im not sure but the reason big engines like 5.7l have a hard time creating big hp/l numbers is because they dont rev as high as imports, if youll notice on vettes red limit is like 6000rpms but imports are like 8,000rpms. But dont worry you import fans, camaros and f-birds arent gone forever they will be back in about 5 years or so! so until then youll have to watch out for those ss's, cobras, z06's and not to forget the vipers! oh yeah and the next time you pull up to a domestic and its shaking and loaping i wouldnt mess with it!:sun:

Originally posted by bluevette74
im not sure but the reason big engines like 5.7l have a hard time creating big hp/l numbers is because they dont rev as high as imports, if youll notice on vettes red limit is like 6000rpms but imports are like 8,000rpms. But dont worry you import fans, camaros and f-birds arent gone forever they will be back in about 5 years or so! so until then youll have to watch out for those ss's, cobras, z06's and not to forget the vipers! oh yeah and the next time you pull up to a domestic and its shaking and loaping i wouldnt mess with it!:sun:

in five years our little rice rockets are gonna be ready so watch out! :silly2:

reason why imports rev high (not all though only honda mostly) is because they need that to reach the high hp for a small displacement vehicle... and they got that technology from making motorcycles. just like toyota partnering with some other motorcycle manufacturer to make their high revving celica's... but most imports don't rev that high tho.

and what sucks is that import counterparts for camaros, vettes and vipers are too expensive already! so you only have to settle with new civics to smoke your guy's ass... :flipa: j/k

Originally posted by bluevette74
oh yeah and the next time you pull up to a domestic and its shaking and loaping i wouldnt mess with it!:sun:

I would and off the line I would shit all over it. At the end of the day it is all about nothing much but bragging or a form of comparison.

I have owned a 1,400 650 cid street/drag car. I now own a fun car that produces a hell of a lot less but is so much more fun to drive around in.

Oh and for the record the hp of the GTR is more than posted :devil: I have had my fair share of goes with 5.6lt on the track and have not lost yet. Relax though as it is interesting to see how different engines respond to different types of tuning and upgrades.

first off...what is hp/L?

Originally posted by AEstud
first off...what is hp/L?

horsepower produced per liter of the engine

Originally posted by NB8CT
It matters becuase it shows that the people who made the engine actually THOUGHT when they built it. They though "how can be get every ounce of power out of this engine" they didnt just say "lets make it huge displacment cuz we dont wana sit down and figure anything new out, thats too hard". Really man lets take the classic hp/L example the Honda S2000, makes 120hp per liter, lets say that your "mythological" 7.4 liter engine made 120hp per liter, lets do our math, thats 888hp, screw your paltry "400HP'
And your calculations below negate what accually matters more than horsepower, torque. Lets look at another example: a stock 240sx has 127hp @ 5000 rpm and 135lb-ft @ 4000rpm and a stock civic si has 123hp @ 7500rpm and 93lb-ft @ 6000rpm. Now I would bet that even though the 240 is heaver it would wack the si off the line, and beat it in the 1/4 becuase the massive gap in torque.

couldnt have said it better myself ;)

actually... bluevette... hp/l has nothing to do with the redline. it simply has to do with how efficient your motor is. you have a low redline in a big motor car b/c it is not designed to be revved that high. in other words, the valve train is either too heavy, or not designed to rev that high. that is why the lt1 zr1 motors revved so high, b/c they had lighter, faster moving overhead valve trains.
the cobras are the same way... you can design a 4cammer that spins high rpms... b/c it has a lighter valve train... it wont be as high, b/c the rotating mass weighs more overall (compared to a 4 cyl)

but, i do know some well built old skool 5.0s that rev to an unheard of 7500...
and the vettes and mustangs of the 60s used to rev high...
i know of vettes that revved to 8 or 9 stock, and mustangs that had rev limiters at 7k b/c they would simply spin themselves into oblivion.

all that hp/l means is that you are efficient. ferrari is very efficient, high hp/l. same idea... they dont make much over 4liters...
and i believe that even a lambo with a big 6.something liter revs to 7200... but that is a 4 cammer too... it is in the tech that is used...

so you say that you've never been beaten by a 5.6l well mine is a 5.7l, and i got a pretty little pink slip that says my vette can make your skyline my bitch!:flipa:

in other words, the most efficient use of airflow is the biggie, as well as light strong parts...
on an older motor, the best performance gains come from porting and polishing, new heads, new cam etc, why?
b/c porting and polishing allows smoother, higher velocity airflow. (more power)
new heads generally are lighter, or more durable, and come with bigger valves, to do what? flow more air. (more power)
and new cams, etc(this includes new carb, intake, headers) basically flow more air... cams open the valves longer to (flow more air)


so everything depends on how efficiently you flow air...

and with a dual overhead cam motor, you can adjust each cam independently, making it even more efficient...

the only reason little motors make less hp is b/c they are little. but if you step back to the 4cam zr1 motor, you see what happens when little motor tech hits big motor size...

i have money on the skyline. awd, twin turbos, hmm...

and the diff b/n the 5.6 and 5.7 is not that significant... not enough for you to beat him.

before you pull out your pinks, why not find out what he has for mods, and power, and what do you have that makes you feel so ballsy about it?

just cuz you have a corvette doesnt make you god. and you are talking old school vs some nice newschool tech. i would love to see the race. or at least get time slips from both to compare...

Originally posted by bluevette74
so you say that you've never been beaten by a 5.6l well mine is a 5.7l, and i got a pretty little pink slip that says my vette can make your skyline my bitch!:flipa:

Hahahahahaha:biggrin2:


To who ever asked about why you don't see many 600+ hp domestics, it has to do with costs of operating those vehicles for street use. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but when you tune a car it uses more gas, but this becomes a bigger factor in a car that when already driven in city driving gets poor fuel economy. Yes they still get as good if not better economy on the highways, but in city driving they are that much worse. Also their performance gains are down in the area of normal city driving where as a smaller engine has to be taken to higher revs to obtain these steeply increase power gains. So it should be easier(and slightly more economical) to drive a civic that has 220 hp then it would be to drive a 600 hp camero in normal driving.

what i think is funny about rice boys is when they hear a v8 thats going GLUG-GLUG-GLUG with such a big lobe it almost cant idle, they have no idea why they sound like that and theyre like "haha your car can barely stay running my sentra will kill u" and its just funny.

ok first of all i would never lay down my slip to my car even if i was racing a stock mustang! I was just trying to flame the guy if you look, he lives in new zealand, and i live in austin tx! so there would probably never be a race. my car probably weighs the same as his if not less, i know that awd is heavy, and so what that he has twin turbos. Their probably stock and pushing 8psi at max "im just guessing by the way, not trying to diss your car", but if you must know the specs on my vette (350 bored .30 over, polished aluminum heads, edlebrock intake, holley 650 double pumper, oversized cam "dont know the lift, long story", turbo 400 tranny, 4:11 pausi rearend! ill post my et's! 488hp 476lbs/ft torque! and you know that power in a fiberglass body has to do some kinda damage!

Originally posted by bluevette74
ok first of all i would never lay down my slip to my car even if i was racing a stock mustang! I was just trying to flame the guy if you look, he lives in new zealand, and i live in austin tx! so there would probably never be a race. my car probably weighs the same as his if not less, i know that awd is heavy, and so what that he has twin turbos. Their probably stock and pushing 8psi at max "im just guessing by the way, not trying to diss your car", but if you must know the specs on my vette (350 bored .30 over, polished aluminum heads, edlebrock intake, holley 650 double pumper, oversized cam "dont know the lift, long story", turbo 400 tranny, 4:11 pausi rearend! ill post my et's! 488hp 476lbs/ft torque! and you know that power in a fiberglass body has to do some kinda damage!

that's some scary power on a fiberglass body... :eek: ... twist that thing

its not too bad! but i do agree i would rather drive a skyline around town, instead of my vette just because the loap and shake from my cam is very uncomfortable! But if were streeet racing thats a different story all together!

i'd rather have my rearview mirror and seats shakin from my cam at idle, than anything else. a big reason why imports rev higher is that they have far less rotating mass than a large ci V8. with my motor, i picked a small chevy because of the less rotating mass. i can now redline at 6100rpms, make peak HP at 5600, and because it's a V8, i still pull well over 350lb/ft. at 2000rpms. in a dom. V8, changing to roller rockers, lifters, cam, and valves will boost your redline a good deal.

Originally posted by bluevette74
ok first of all i would never lay down my slip to my car even if i was racing a stock mustang! I was just trying to flame the guy if you look, he lives in new zealand, and i live in austin tx! so there would probably never be a race. my car probably weighs the same as his if not less, i know that awd is heavy, and so what that he has twin turbos. Their probably stock and pushing 8psi at max "im just guessing by the way, not trying to diss your car", but if you must know the specs on my vette (350 bored .30 over, polished aluminum heads, edlebrock intake, holley 650 double pumper, oversized cam "dont know the lift, long story", turbo 400 tranny, 4:11 pausi rearend! ill post my et's! 488hp 476lbs/ft torque! and you know that power in a fiberglass body has to do some kinda damage!

I know you were. I am only running about 12psi right now with nearly a stock standard car. She will run low 12's in the current state but will be quite a bit quicker soon :finger:

blue...
i didnt mean to knock ya there, but you realize what i meant...

and yeah, lotsa rice doesnt know what a big motor is supposed to sound like, but lotsa domestics dont know what a built import sounds like... except for the whoosh of a bov.

but i got respect for ya... i know your car is quick, but i know the skyline is just as quick...

I know what a built import sounds like, it doesnt sound like a "weedeater, or wet fart" it sounds like a ferrari! And when i see coolers on the grill, and i hear that blow off i know there not posers! dont get me wrong i have great respect for imports.

Originally posted by bluevette74
I know what a built import sounds like, it doesnt sound like a "weedeater, or wet fart" it sounds like a ferrari! And when i see coolers on the grill, and i hear that blow off i know there not posers! dont get me wrong i have great respect for imports.

don't you just love the sound of a high performance engine? hmmm...

Originally posted by flylwsi
blue...
i didnt mean to knock ya there, but you realize what i meant...

and yeah, lotsa rice doesnt know what a big motor is supposed to sound like, but lotsa domestics dont know what a built import sounds like... except for the whoosh of a bov.

but i got respect for ya... i know your car is quick, but i know the skyline is just as quick...

It is not so much that but more that it is not their scene. Having come from Chicago and owned two nicely tuned big blocks I still love the sound of a big V8 in full song. It just has a sound no matter what you do to a smaller motor you can not get.

I respect all performance cars and like most of them. As with the Ford and Chevy guys there will always be a bit of rivaliry and ribbing from both sides. That is the nature of the beast, and should be all good fun.

Bluevette who knows mate. I have been toying with the idea of coming back to the states in the near future, and when I do the GTR is coming with me. I have been in contact for a while with MotoRex and getting it complied will not be an issue. Since they know my car club very well ;)
I will have to try and look ya up.

well you better do it before august 12th, because im shipping out to the marines, and when that happens im selling my vette to my boss. But after bootcamp im going to buy a bike, maybe you can race me in that, ill give you a couple of links for the start!

Originally posted by bluevette74
well you better do it before august 12th, because im shipping out to the marines, and when that happens im selling my vette to my boss. But after bootcamp im going to buy a bike, maybe you can race me in that, ill give you a couple of links for the start!

that bikes gonna kill that GTR for sure

Well it is not happing this year for sure. Either way doesn't matter. Taking someone out for a blat who has never been in one is fun :)

Oh and Rice that is possible with a mildly tuned GTR, but I have already seen 3 GTR's shit all over some of Japan's finest sport bikes here at the drags and heads up racing.