Mclaren F1 and Enzo.....DEFEATED.....by a benz!!!!

right now, the mclaren f1 vs. enzo debate is quite heated......in fact, these cars are also often compared to newer concept/production cars like the me four-twelve and the ccr.......but why do i hardly see any mention of the mercedes clk-gtr? the f1 and enzo run low 11s in the quarter but the benz is capable of a 9.4 second quarter!!!!! on top of that, it was produced in 1998, a whole 6 years before the enzo!!! i don't understand why the clk-gtr is not compared to the enzo as much as the mclaren f1 is......i mean if everyone is going ga-ga over the four-twelve and comapring it to the f1, then the clk-gtr (though it has a much lower top speed than the me and f1, its quarter mile is faster than BOTH cars) certainly deserves to be at least recognized among this elite group of supercars. so..........how do YOU guys think the clk-gtr stacks up to the competition?

come to think of it, i also haven't heard much mention of some of the older jags like the xj220, xjr15, etc. (though i've heard of a video comparing the xjr15 and the mclaren f1)......its just that it seems like everyone thinks that the 1994 mclaren f1 was so great that only the post-2000 cars like the enzo or ccr could rival it.......but it appears to me that some of the other 90's cars like the jag and benz that were able to rival the f1 are overlooked in general.......unless these cars handle like crap, i don't see why they would be neglected

heard of the new merc CLK DTM AMG?
It does 0-1000m in 20 seconds - if you transfer that to miles, it would be 8 seconds for the quartermile :sly:
(it's only 235.480€ btw :D)
on the website it says - "speed electronically limited (- and I thought d'oh) to... 320 km/h :D)

or what about SL/CL 65 AMG?
its the strongest benz ever, 612 DIN-PS! (would be about 700 SAE-HP) - 1000 Nm maximum torque!
the torque is limited... :screwy:
normally it would be 1200 Nm but that's too much for gear an clutch (unwanted rhyme :p)
0-60 mph in 3.7 seconds - with over 1900 lbs
still perfect handling - and mercedes elegance/comfort!
also only for about 202.000

too bad there are only very limited series.

oooh mercedes is so badass

yeah, i've heard of the clk dtm but i just thought it was still in concept and testing stage.....i never saw any performance stats for it yet......but yeah mercedes cl 65 amg is SICK......700 ft.lbs of torque is no laughing matter and i wouldn't be surprised if its capable of taking out a z06 and the likes in straight line acceleration.

the only thing that pisses me off about mercedes is that the sl 55 amg is too quiet....i can understand making the sl 500 and 600 more muted but the sl 55 amg should have a more sporty sound and feel......and while they're at it, i think they should ditch the v8 in the sl 55 amg and put the mercedes v12 from the zonda in it instead......just imagine how awesome the car would sound at full throttle....(drool)....

Quick! How many CLK-GTR's were built for the street? For that matter, how many Porsche 911-GT1's (particularly the radically altered '98 EVOs), Nissan R390's, Panoz Esperante GT-1's, Toyota TSO20's, and Lotus Elise GT-1's were built for the street?

I'll give you a hint, I'll bet if you total up the entire production number of all those cars you'll mayb have 25-50 cars total. That's barely enough to consider them legitimate production cars.

As for the XJR-15, it was a one-off built from Tom Walkinshaw Racing (I.E. the team that campaigned the Silk Cut Jaguars to several Le Mans victories) leftovers as a concept for a successor to the miserable selling Jaguar XJ220. The XJ220 is probably the world's most lovely supercar, but was a commercial failure of epic proportions (200 of them remained in Jaguar's storage warehouse unsold. The last ones, I think, were sold off sometime in 1993-5) and remains the "grand tourer" of supercars, rather than a road going race car like its contemporary - the Ferrari F40.

i never said the clk-gtr was a full production vehicle......i was just saying that if a mere concept car such as the me four-twelve is being hyped up and compared to the f1 and enzo, why isn't the benz which was actually produced (albeit very limited) and is older than the enzo even mentioned in most comparisons.....in fact, i believe mercedes made like 5-6 clk-gtr roadsters as recently as 2002....where was the hype for that? i dunno, maybe its simply bad advertising on mercedes part, but its just that pretty much everybody worships the mclaren f1 as being the fastest car ever and i never hear any credit given to the benz, which, according to the stats i've seen, should be able to easily outaccelerate an f1 through the quarter......i don't know how it performs on a track though but since its practically a race car, i would assume it must be pretty good

o and btw, apparently the xjr15 had god-awful handling and a whiny engine.....that explains why i don't see much mention of it in this caliber of cars.

The ME-412 is getting the same amount of hype ANY new supercar gets before it's introduced to the public. When/If the production car is introduced and driven, then we'll see if it's deserving. No sooner, no later, and if a gonzo-Chrysler is getting your panties in a bunch then it must really bug you that Team Mopar is 3 for 3 in SCCA Formula Drift.

And guess what, you obviously weren't paying attention in 1999 when Mercedes-Benz withdrew the CLK-LM's (the outgrowth of the CLK-GTR that had lost miserably to the Porsche 911-GT1's the previous year) because of poor aerodynamic design that caused the cars to lift into the air (sending Martin Brundle and one of the Benzs flying into the sky only to crash into the ground outside of the track).

The CLK-GTR did well enough to take an FIA GT championship in 1997, but it was hardly a world beater. As a race car, the McLaren F1 was already three years old when the CLK first appeared at Le-Mans in 1998.

By the way, not one Benz finished Le Mans in 1998.

So much for the great CLK-GTR.

The ignorance!!! 9eleven, your argument is based around 1/4 mile times?!?!? Get real.

Mercedes very clearly designed the CLK GTR for drag racing. Why do you think it had a 20 litre V20 and a Solid rear axle?




Oh........

i wasn't purely basing it around quarter mile times. i mentioned them because that was the only figure i had. if you read the last line of my second post, you'll see that i did mention the fact that it may handle badly, but i didn't make any other comments about that because i didn't know how it handled and i didn't want to sound stupid making any random claims. i mean the whole reason i posted this thread was because i DID NOT know much about the clk-gtr and i wanted to ask you guys about its handling characteristics, popularity, etc.....i'm not trying to act like i know all about the car and that it must necessarily be right up there with the f1. in fact, i wanted you guys to correct me and tell me whatever info i was missing, and now that you have, i thank you

hmmm, that's not what the title of the thread seems to say....

i know the title's a stretch but i needed a strong statement to attract people to reply to this thread......when i said 'defeated' i just meant in the quarter mile.....like i said before, i have no idea how it handles comparatively

20 liter V20...Say what?

Fuck thats crazy...

20 liter V20...Say what?

Fuck thats crazy...


He was sarcastic

layla always has some good answers

top fuel dragsters can do the 1/4 in under 5 seconds...why arent they comparing those to the mclaren?
*much sarcasm*

sheesh, i told you guys already that i wasn't comparing solely on quarter mile....its just that that's the only data i had about the car and so i couldn't give any other numbers (i was hoping you guys would be able to provide the handling data for me)......i was comparing them because both cars are part of the hyperexotic, hyperexpensive, race bred supercar group. hell, if i was comparing quarter miles only, i wouldn't waste my time talking about clk-gtr's.....i'd be talking about 7-8 second supras, mustangs, and camaros. if you look at the other car comparisons on this forum, straight line acceleration is almost always discussed, often times without any regards to handling......its ok for people to make threads about who would win in a street race between a riced out civic and a maxima but not for these cars.....so since for some reason comparing acceleration or top speed bothers you guys so much, if it makes you happy, from here on in just compare them in terms of handling and track times

The Enzo and F1 were built to be road cars.

The CLK-GTR was designed to compete in the GT1 series. There was a rash of barely road legal 25 production only cars in that period. Toyota GT-One TS020, Porsche GT1, Panoz Esperante GT1, they're all from that era and all virtually impossible to drive on the roads. They were built only to homologate them for the GT1 series.

So you can't really compare them to proper production cars.

news from the CLK DTM AMG:

It was on TV here yesterday.
there are only one hundred of them tuned/built by AMG and they're already sold by now :grinyes:

the CLK DTM:
http://www3.mercedes-benz.com/omb/amg/en/cars/specials/clkdtm/index.htm
the original:
http://www.teamamg-mercedes.de/impressions/mai2004/e3.jpg

He was sarcastic
Noooooooooooooooo...............





;) :thefinger