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Help Lumina idle/miss w/Haynes codes


elfin3
08-07-2004, 05:02 PM
Hello,
I have been searching so many threads that I'm not sure where to start. I have a 90' Lumina Euro, and I have been getting this idle problem for about 1-2 weeks. It wouldn't idle at normal speed/RPM, while idle, stopping, if it's hot out... so on. It would rev at 2,000 RPM while starting cold or hot, not drop down to normal, then while pulling out in drive- it would either sputter( very low RPM) or then go to 2,000 RPM and pull like a train. At stops, or braking the RPMs drop drastically and very rough idle or go to stall. At times I could swear the cruise control is stuck on even at 10 mph!
It was at the shop for 3 days, while the mech. could not find anything wrong, said they drove it every way you could and it acts good. Cruel joke our cars play on us. While it was there, I read as much as I could here and tried to learn. I asked him if he tried several of these diagnostic checks, but he said there isn't a problem w/ each one I tell him. I'm to call him when it acts up again.
I picked up the car( they're closed), and it stalled(at stop light) on the highway w/in 8 blocks. But it was very hot out.
I tried that paper clip ECM diagnostic test( learned about it on one of your posts), and got codes 33 and 44, and do not know what they mean(no Haynes Manual). I'm hoping someone knows what they mean.
Two things also, 6 weeks ago, the battery went dead. I had it jump started but didn't know about the Relearn Idle. Should I do that now? Mech. says it has nothing to do with it, but I drive about 10 miles total every week or less. Really short store trips.
Second thing happened a week before this. I ran out of gas, although it read that I had a little. It ran out in my parking space overnight. It didn't 'die' on me, it just would not do a thing and the needle then moved to E. The emergency gas put in was not my normal gas, and from a different gas station. I only use Sunoco gas in this car because it always seemed to never have problems with that brand. I put dry gas in it the day I took it to the mechanic, could that have made it run well for him? And could the summer gas additives/mixture be a problem as well? 3 neighbors had each of their fuel filters go in the last 2 weeks( one has replaced 2).They add dry gas.
If any clues or something I can check myself( I do not know what all of these acronyms stand for yet), please do let me know. I am sure someone has had this problem and got it fixed!
Thanks so much,
Lori

300+
08-07-2004, 08:40 PM
I don't have a 90 lumina but based on my 95 lumina APV 3.1 I am giving this info.

33 is for MAP sensor
44 o2 sensor detects lean mixture

Vacuum hose leak to MAP maybe for code 33 and 44.

MAP (manifold air pressure sensor) ~$30 in Thottle Body

02 Oxygen sensor ~$20 in exhaust manifold

Advanceautoparts.com has pictures of their parts
Dry gas wont fix a filter.
Disconnecting the MAP will put it in a default mode and would produce a code 34, I think, and it would no longer be used in the computer for determining fuel delivery. Could eliminate this as the problem or identify it.
First check for vacuum hose leaks and connections to MAP, clear codes and see if 33 and 44 come up again. Or did 44 only come on after stalling.
My 02 sensor caused me problems of misfiring when hot and replacement did solve problems. The code 33 though makes me doubt the o2 at least initially.

elfin3
08-08-2004, 06:39 PM
Hi there and thanks for responding.
I looked up the MAP online and don't have a meter( voltimeter?).
Do you want me to remove the vacuum hose to the MAP, and then do that paperclip test while it's disconnected? Or do you want me to buy one/ or find a store that helps do diagnostics? I'd like to try to do the first( remove the vacuum if it's safe to try). Do I run the test as normal with it disconnected? Do I put it back on if I have to drive it? How do I clear the codes?
The codes both came up in one test, after I got it back from the mech., which is when it stalled for the first time. I only ran that test once so far.
What exactly is a misfire/how different than an engine miss?
Is the O2 sensor hard to check or fix by yourself?
Do you know if I should relearn the idle/ jump-started battery 6 weeks ago( my fault, left light on)?
Thanks for helping..

tlharman
08-09-2004, 12:33 PM
Replace the intake gaskets. they're leaking and sucking in air & so the computer says hey I need more fuel etc.

300+
08-09-2004, 04:56 PM
That is certainly a likely source of the problem since it seems common with these.
I was saying to look for vacuum line leaks first.
As far as the MAP. If you disconnect the electrical connector it would go to a default value. If not better then gasket leak probable.
Disconnecting battery will clear codes and all other presets.
Not sure how easy the intake leak is to find. Maybe tlharman or others know.

elfin3
08-09-2004, 05:19 PM
Thank you both for helping..
Where is the MAP sensor on your lumina? I see the pictures on Advance auto parts, but I can't match it up with my car.. It's a 1990 Lumina 3.1, and I don't have a manual.
I found two yellow copper coated wires disconnected, frayed and oily( located passenger side, lower part of car, under the belts). I can't find where they connected to, but I followed the line in through those heat shield black covered tubes into the left front side of the engine.
There is a fluid leaking near it, I'm trying to get the fluid on cardboard.
Does anyone know where the MAP sensor is physically located on their Lumina or on a Chevy? Or any diagram online(I searched and could not find).
Thank you so much for any help!
Lori L.

300+
08-10-2004, 08:16 PM
Mine is on the front of the air cleaner (round). Little squarish thing. Has a 3 wire electrical connector and a vacuum from Throttle Body.

elfin3
08-12-2004, 12:22 PM
I took her to the mech. and cleared the codes. A removed/disconnected MAP sensor gives a code 34. Does that mean it is something in that area? I've got a new MAP sensor and IAC sensor/motor(not sure which it's called). The vacuum line that goes directly into the MAP sensor is cracked at the top of the line(the rubber connector elbow). The mechanics said that wasn't a problem and I told them I thought it was. He had it running very good, and it drove home fine. Two hours later, it drives really really bad, low idle, SES lights on, when in drive it's so strong that it pulls like a tank, and you literally have to fight it and ride the brake.. it pulls faster and faster. The code that came up was only a code 33 this time. Do I take it back and demand that vacuum line be replaced? Can one little crack there cause it to act that way? Or is there something else??? Any ideas? I want to tape/glue/seal that crack until I get a new one on. Would it be hard for me to do that myself? (Buying a new vacuum line and installing)

Kooterskkar
08-14-2004, 12:16 AM
If theres a crack in a vacuum line it should be replaced. Plain and simple. I wouldnt take my car to that mechanic again if I were you. Check all the vacuum lines and replace any that are cracked or dry rotted. If you think its questionable replace it anyway, because you never know.
Code 33: map sensor signal voltage high. Means you got a vacuum leak. Go to advance, autozone, someplace like it. Pull the hose off of the map sensor. then disconnect the other ende from the T-fitting connected to the other hoses. Take it inside and ask for some vacuum hose thats the same size as that. You should get it just slightly smaller so it will seal good when you put it in the car. get like 5 feet of it. and replace every line you can find thats that size. Itl take alot more than 5 feet to replace every line in the car but that should get most of them. Replace the ones that look the worst first.

Mine is on the front of the air cleaner (round). Little squarish thing. Has a 3 wire electrical connector and a vacuum from Throttle Body. Thats a MAF sensor, it serves the same purpose but its completely different. The MAP sensor should be mounted in the middle of the firewall. Its a little box about 3 inches long and 1 inch wide, with a 3 wire connector stickin out of it, and a vacuum line coming out of the bottom.

elfin3
08-16-2004, 01:03 AM
Haven't made it to Autozone yet to get the vacuum hose/ line, but that's what I'm going to do. The night after I got the IAC(new one) put on, it was acting horrid( after the codes were cleared I got code 33 and 35). The RPMs just went to 2500 then down to stall and up again every few seconds. I called the Autozone guy who's helping, and he said did they drive your car at 40 MPH for a few miles, and they hadn't. I got it to a road and did that after I taped up the crack in the vacuum line off of the MAP sensor, and I guess it set. It just acted normal RPM-wise.
It is still stalling but I know it's probably that crack in the vacuum line. Do I have to take the top of the engine off to get to all of these lines to replace them? I googled it online and saw people that have replaced them all, but couldn't find a Lumina..
Would it cost alot for labor if I had to pay a mechanic? (A different one).
I have few tools.
Oh, big question, if you take the vacuum line/hose off of the MAP sensor and try to suck air out of it, should there be a vacuum, or will air come through?
Thanx--- Lori

jeffcoslacker
08-16-2004, 09:58 AM
I think you are on the right track, the problem sounds common to a massive vacuum leak. Easiest method I've found is to spray anything (water, carb cleaner, WD-40) everywhere, and as soon as the motor reacts to it, by either idling down or up, as the liquid is drawn into the leak it stops it momentaraly, causing the system to work properly for a couple of seconds. Then you've found the area, just need to pinpoint the leak.

elfin3
08-16-2004, 04:34 PM
Ok, i replaced the MAP sensor vacuum line/hose. Autozone told me which mech. close-by could do that.I am still getting code 33. Idle still rough sounding, car still stalling, engine still seems to have a miss. The other vacuum lines that I can see seem alright but I haven't checked the ones where you take off the cover of the engine.
How do you check the vacuum hose to the vacuum resevoir( is that the ball under the driver's side bumper)? Do you disconnect and suck on the hose to see if there is air coming out? Can that cause a code 33?
What else can cause a code33 that I can check without many tools?
I buy new tools as needed but am not a mechanic, but might be by the time you guys get me through this. Every person that I've called(autozone, other mechanics, other parts stores) says a mechanic that doesn't check the codes when you tell him the SES light comes on , and doesn't think a cracked vacuum hose(to the MAP sensor) would affect a car's ability to run correctly says do not go back there.
Now I am going to try with the carb. cleaner, I sprayed it yesterday and the idle smoothed out. Just have to do it again and find what area it was. ( I thought I was just spraying to get off any build-up because I saw a mechanic do it, and watched the idle smooth out. I didn't know it could really help show where the problem was located.)

elfin3
08-16-2004, 04:48 PM
Another question to Kooterskkar and all,
The MAP sensor has a little thing to the right of it. It's not exactly a box but some component with wires connected to it. Does anyone know what this is?
Putting on the new MAP sensor hose, we had to take off both of these things to get to where the Hose connected. Does the car have to reset Idle if these are disconnected and then reconnected? Any methods if so? When I reset the IAC, there was a complete differnce in RPM and idling. If this is a sensor or main part, I thought there might be something you have to do to reset it. (There's a bolt you take off and both come off together.)
Also, I now keep the cruise conrol wires disconnected, not the vacuum hose, but the electrical ones. Just to eliminate it as a problem( because it originally seemed to me the cruise control was "stuck" on when it was taking gas by itself, and pulling like a tank.) Can I keep it disconnected without causing errors, or should I reconnect it ? I was trying to eliminate things I don't need to run the car , so that I could really focus on the really necessary parts, and focus on the problems through elimination.

jeffcoslacker
08-16-2004, 05:15 PM
Your cruise is disabled at any speed below about 25 mph, so you can rule it out. You shouldn't need to reset idle, it will relearn after running for a while on its own. Before we knew how to reset them, we would just leave 'em running in drive with the E-brake on and the wheels chocked, and the idle would always stabilize on its own.

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