Who's The Boss?

many may disagree but i myself beleive that we are in the years of the supercars

but who's the boss, all are favored by one person or another, but all out track and straightline
just all around performane. WHO'S THE BOSS

JAGUAR XJ220
MCLAREN F1
KOENIGSEGS CC8S
S7 SALEEN
CARRERA GT
FERRARI ENZO
PAGANI ZONDA C12

Well on a track my money is on the Enzo followed by the Carrera and the
CC8S.

BTW is my impresion correct that the Mclaren was never a great track car. from what I hear it has not rear roll bar and its downforce was sacrificed for aerodynamics.

For top speed it would be a battle between the Koenigseg and Mclaren especially with the new 800+Hp on the new Koenigseg.


BTW i would include the Mosler which IMO is far better than the S7

Well, considering the McLaren won Le Mans outright I'd say it was a pretty damn good track car.

But really, you can't compare all of these cars. Some are built for very fast cruising (like on the Autobahn or the Autostrada) like the XJ220 and the Zonda which have placed great importance on luxury as well as speed. Some are thinly disguised track cars that happen to be road legal, like the Carrera GT and Saleen S7. Some are just their company's celebration of technological, styling, and performance prowess like the McLaren F1 and Enzo Ferrari.

And the Konigsegg is an engineering excercise to see if the McLaren can be beat for less money.

Then, of course, you're leaving out so many other supercars in the same class and timeframe.

Bugatti EB110?

http://www.fast-autos.net/bugatti/eb11012.jpg

Laraki Fulgara?

http://www.fast-autos.net/laraki/03fulgura7.jpg

Mercedes CLK-GTR?

http://www.fast-autos.net/mercedes/clkgtr7.jpg

Porsche 911GT1?

http://www.fast-autos.net/porsche/911gt1.jpg

And I'm sure there's others I've missed.

out of those choices the koenigsegg cc8s


but of all time... favorite = f40

Well, considering the McLaren won Le Mans outright I'd say it was a pretty damn good track car.


My question would be though: How diffrent from the production model was the Lemans version on did It had any good competition at the time?


[QUOTE=Layla's Keeper]
Laraki Fulgara?

http://www.fast-autos.net/laraki/03fulgura7.jpg

Is it just me or that looks very close to a 360 Modena:eek7:

Interestingly enough, the McLaren F1's V12 was DETUNED to run at LeMans (although 75lbs were shaved off and a longer tail for less drag down the Mulsanne were introduced). It's competition, originally, were a mixture of WSC open cockpit cars and modified production supercars.

Some McLaren competitors....

Ferrari 333SP
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/627-1.jpg
Porsche Kremer K8
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/430-1.jpg
Lotus Elise GT1
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/283-1.jpg

The car was considered obsolete at the introduction of the Panoz Esperante GT1, 911GT1 and the CLK-GTR. Of course, the McLaren F1 and the Porsche 911GT1 remain the only GT1 cars to win Le Mans. The GT1 glamour year, 1999 (Toyota TSO20, Audi R8 coupe, Nissan R390GT1, Panoz Esperante GTR1, Porsche 911GT1 EVO, Mercedes CLK-GTR), was won by the BMW V12LMR.

I voted the keonigsegg CC58 but the true bad boy is the koenigsegg CCR :)

The McLaren, simply because it's the most perfect car I could ever imagine

Laraki Fulgara?

http://www.fast-autos.net/laraki/03fulgura7.jpg
360 Modena
http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/36016.jpg





Lotus Elise GT1
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/283-1.jpg


Noble M12 GTO
http://www.realdriver.com/gallery/albums/Noble/Noble_M12/m12_sk.jpg



Am I the only one who is seeing some serious copying here?

Sorry for the thread hijack but i could not help but notice.


PS thanks Layla for the info :) . we can always rely on you for racing history

mclaren LM.... btw the buggatti doesnt come near any of those other cars... u were right about the porsche and mercedes though.

i diddn't think about the mercede's and i was going to add in the gt1 but figured i already had the carrera beast

I choosed the Ferrari Enzo, but I like more the Saleen S7.

none of these cars can touch the mclaren in wow factor for me. Voting on the poll was as easy as a dump with diahrea (sp)

Cannot say no to the saleen... I loved the saleen mustangs, but the S7 is such a new benchmark for supercars

yeah, with a 0-60 of 3.3 seconds, saleen has got to be doing something right.

i have a video of a mercialago vs a pagani zonda.
on paper it seems as if the mercialago and zonda are close in 1/4 mile times.
on this video i have, the Zonda outright destroys the lambo by, i kid you not a bus length and a half. and also killed it on the twisties by 6 seconds

ya i loved that video, it sounds so nice n rich when he revved it in the show room

it fuckin destroyed the lambo in the straightaway

My favorite of the supercars is the Saleen S7. My mustang has made me grow to love Saleen as a manufacturer, and even though the Mosler and Enzo may be faster (by a little), the Saleen can hold its own while having a more civilzed interior and also its by far the best looking car imo. The mosler and Enzo are fast, but they have stripped out interiors, but the Saleen seems to have a full interior (from pics Ive seen anyhow), if I could pay that much for a supercar, I might as well get a little civility with it.

mosler is faster than the s7 saleen?
why do i find that hard to beleive

mosler is faster than the s7 saleen?
why do i find that hard to beleive

Let me show you why:

Mosler Photon Curb weight: 1980 LBS
Sallen S7 curb weight: 2750 LBS


http://www.moslerauto.com/cgi-bin/mosler.pl?header=/mt900/header_pc.html&content=/mt900/photon.html

http://www.engine-power.com/saleen/s7.html




The mosler is just sick. It weighs only about as much as the US spec elise. That is simply insane. Of course except for AC comfort is not a word in the mosler dictionary. Its a pure raw car.

Mclaren F1. Gotta love German engineering. And damn that body! Makes me wonder if there's a body kit I can put on the Eclipse to make it look like the McLaren??? Hey I can dream.

Mclaren F1. Gotta love German engineering. And damn that body! Makes me wonder if there's a body kit I can put on the Eclipse to make it look like the McLaren??? Hey I can dream.


Well that is more british engineering, only the engine is german

the Saleen can hold its own while having a more civilzed interior and also its by far the best looking car imo.

u think the s7 looks better than this??? i dont
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/F1LM/lm_shop_3.jpg
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/F1LM/lm_road_front.jpg
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/F1LM/lm_road_side.jpg

nuetrino, the information you just gave me above actually says the s7 saleen is faster

mosler 1/4 mile at 12.0@118

while the s7 saleen is 11.3@127

mosler wieghs 800lbs less then the s7 saleen but also has 100hp less than the s7 saleen, actaully 115hp less

technically speaking, doesnt 10hp make up for every 100lbs? this i've heard by more than one person and mod

s7 saleen 550hp
mosler photon 435hp (with corvette's LS6? i didn't know that)

though mosler has a very nice 0-60 of 3.5 it doesn't quite touch the s7 saleen's 0-60 of 3.3 seconds tested my R&T

nuetrino, the information you just gave me above actually says the s7 saleen is faster

mosler 1/4 mile at 12.0@118

while the s7 saleen is 11.3@127

mosler wieghs 800lbs less then the s7 saleen but also has 100hp less than the s7 saleen, actaully 115hp less

technically speaking, doesnt 10hp make up for every 100lbs? this i've heard by more than one person and mod

s7 saleen 550hp
mosler photon 435hp (with corvette's LS6? i didn't know that)

though mosler has a very nice 0-60 of 3.5 it doesn't quite touch the s7 saleen's 0-60 of 3.3 seconds tested my R&T

Interesting, I'm curious why mosler choose those numbers. Maybe they like to underate too or maybe those are the numbers for the regular mosler and not the photon version.

Here are the Photon version's numbers as tested by a true pro..Justin Bell


http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0306_spdtest_060_z.jpg
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0306_spdtest_quartm_z.jpg

as you can see its acceleration is faster than the sallen, and weight counts even more in handling.

your absolutley right. thats a crazy car.

you heard of the s7r saleen. i seen it in person.

interior ripped out and ugly. but as far as the performance in its racing career it was 1st place like 8 times.

also the f-50 gt. ya know its specs

Umm, nope. S7's have yet to win ANYTHING in ALMS GTS competition. They've been hopelessly outclassed by the Corvette C5R and Prodrive 550GTO Maranellos, and barely can keep pace with the 575GTC Maranellos, Rafanelli Olive Garden 550 Maranellos (yes, there were, at one time, three different Maranellos running in GTS) and the newly introduced Murciealago R-GT.

Not to mention if it hadn't been for rules disallowing the car from competing without heavy modification (which, by the way, the Scuderia is making) the Maserati MC12 would have absolutely destroyed EVERYTHING in the GTS class.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/1856-3.jpg

and of course the Targa road version, the MC12 Stradale.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/1952-2.jpg

wow those maserati's *drooling* ..... i was readin EVO magazine at the shop (2 cheap 2 buy it) and was lookin at the MC12 Stradale & some old guy (40+) standin next 2 me tells me not 2 bother with "euro crap" and asked if i had heard of the cadillac cien, which is what he says is a "REAL CAR". oh like this car is fake? yes i know what a cadillac cien is, and its an ugly overpriced tank. i didnt argue with him, mainly because on that particular occasion i didnt feel like makin a scene.

Umm, nope. S7's have yet to win ANYTHING in ALMS GTS competition. They've been hopelessly outclassed by the Corvette C5R.

2001 Saleen S7R won at the 12 hours of Sebring(ALMS GTS) and Terry Bouchler won the Drivers Championship with a Saleen S7R.(ALMS GTS)

The S7R has had trouble keeping up with the C5R since 2001 cause unlike the 2 C5R's teams, the S7R's are not factory race teams. The S7R teams are all customer cars.

hm koenigsegg CCR would fit better here, imho.

the bosses for me:

Dauer 962 Le Mans
http://www.autodrome-cannes.com/dauer-porsche_962lm_yellow2.jpg
ok, it's ugly but it takes 2.6s from 0-60

and... yeah, we know this one
http://www.glazok.ru/news/auto/archives/Bugatti-Veyron_1.jpg

only performance-wise... murciélago gt has the looks!
http://www.myevo.com/murcielagoGT.jpg

Ferrari 333SP
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/627-1.jpg


Omg there is another person who knows ferrari true performance car!! YEAH!! The 333 sp will beat a mclaren around the track sry guys but you all know it 1900 pounds (W/o D) 700 hp ultra light aluminium v12= :evillol:.

Il have to go with the saleen S7 jus because its my name and its the first supercar Ive ever seen in real life.

Btw on the half ass ferrari lookin car it looks like a 360 stretched but it has muricelago underscoops.

Top 20

1 Mclaren LM
2 Saleen s7 (R spec street version 03-04 models)
3 Ferrari 333 sp
4 Callaway c12
5 Pangani zonda c12-s (CF only)
6 Mercedes clk-gtr
7 Mercedes clk-dtm
8 Fioravanti f100 r
9 Ferrari 360gt
10 Gemballa 750 evo
11 Signal skyline r34 gtr with all body hks cf.
12 Jaguar xj220 v12 model only not ttv6
13 Ferrari f50 gt
14 Ferrari maranello 550 prodrive gt (0live garden)
15 Lamborghini diablo gtr lm
16 Porsche carrera gt
17 Ferrari F40 LM :eek:
18 Lamborghini r-gt
19 Aston martin db9 04 model race car gt version (prototype)
20 cause of performance the Dauer 962 le mans. (cf no paint)

Omg there is another person who knows ferrari true performance car!! YEAH!! The 333 sp will beat a mclaren around the track sry guys but you all know it 1900 pounds (W/o D) 700 hp ultra light aluminium v12= :evillol:.

i'm sorry but even if that is faster than the mclaren. who in there right mind would think of that as a street car. that thing is just ugly.


layal, thats what the paper read, and it had more than one win. i'll check it out next time i go up there, its about 20 min from my house

I dont care its the fastest and best track car unless U would like to get into f1 cars other wise its the fastest.

I dont care its the fastest and best track car unless U would like to get into f1 cars other wise its the fastest.

Yea but can you ever drive it on the street? Can you ever go cruise downtown in it? No you can't cause it's a full race car and nothing else.

UMMMMM.... huge oversight people.... how could anyone forget the worlds fastest people mover? yes, im talking about the legendary E-SPACE F1....

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/444-1.jpg


yeah it'll get beat round a track.... but u can get 7 people into it :), ok i know the engine is now where the back seats were, but its still awesome...

GTStang ~ VERY NICE AVATAR!!

hey layla's keeper, how did Nissan R390 GT1 fair in the competitions? Wasn't there a production road version as well for over a $1 mill? thanks.

hey layla's keeper, how did Nissan R390 GT1 fair in the competitions? Wasn't there a production road version as well for over a $1 mill? thanks.

yea but its ugly ~

http://www.fast-autos.net/nissan/r390gt1.jpg

http://www.autosea.by.ru/Zagigalka/AUTOmost/most_dear/ase_nissan-r390_gt1.jpg

saleen s7 is ugly, mcLaren f1 knockoff. lol.

saleen s7 is ugly, mcLaren f1 knockoff. lol.

Dream on the S7 is pure originalitly NO ?'s ASKED. its 2 am here damn.

1998 was the year of the GT1 car. Here's the finishing order.

1 Porsche AG McNish-Aiello-Ortelli Porsche GT1 98 26 =351=
2 Porsche AG Muller-Alzen-Wollek Porsche GT1 98 25 =350=
3 Nissan Motorsports Hoshino-Suzuki-Kageyama Nissan R390 GT1 32 =347=
4 Gulf Team Davidoff McLaren Sugden-O'Rourke-Auberlen McLaren BMW F1 GTR 40 =343=
5 Nissan Motorsports Nielsen-Lagorce-Krumm Nissan R390 GT1 30 =342=
6 Nissan Motorsports Comas-Lammers-Montermini Nissan R390 GT1 31 =342=
7 Panoz Motorsports INC Brabham-Wallace-Davies Panoz GT-R1 45 =335=
8 Doyle-Risi Racing Taylor-van de Poele-Velez Ferrari 333SP 12 =332=
9 Toyota Motorsport Katayama-Suzuki-Tsuchiya Toyota 27 =326=
10 Nissan Motorsports Motoyama-Kageyama-Kurosawa Nissan R390 GT1 33 =319=
11 Viper Team ORECA Bell-Donohue-Drudi Chrysler Viper GTS-R 53 =317=
12 Kremer Racing Agusta-Copelli-Pompidou Kremer Porsche K9 16 =314=
13 Viper Team ORECA Beretta-Lamy-Archer Chrysler Viper GTS-R 51 =312=
14 Moretti Racing Inc. Moretti-Theys-Baldi Ferrari SP 3 =311=
15 Courage Competition Terada-Freon-Thevenin Courage Porsche C41 24 =304=
16 La Filiere Pescarolo-Grouillard-Montagny Courage Porsche C36 15 =300=
17 Roock Racing Hurtgen-Ligonnet-Nearn Porsche 911 GT2 64 =285=
18 Michel Nourry Nourry-Perrier-Ricci Porsche 993 GT2 Evo. 69 =276=
19 Chamberlain Engineering Turner-Ayles-Hugenholz Chrysler Viper GTS-R 56 =270=
20 ELF Haberthur Racing Graham-Poulain-Maury-Laribiere Porsche 911 GT2 68 =268=
21 Chamberlain Engineering Amorim-Gomes-Mello-M.Bryner Chrysler Viper GTS-R 55 =264=
22 Roock Racing Ahrle-Warnock-Schirle Porsche 911 GT2 65 =247=
23 Larbre Competition Goueslard-Chereau-Yver Porsche 911 GT2 72 =240=
-- Toyota Motorsport Boutsen-Kelleners-Lees Toyota 29 =330= Retired
-- Toyota Motorsport Brundle-Collard-Hélary Toyota 28 =191= Retired

Whoa, Nissan took quite a lot of trophies home, I'm surprised one of them got the 3rd spot over all the European cars.

Dream on the S7 is pure originalitly NO ?'s ASKED. its 2 am here damn.

Of course it's original, it's the cheapest crap, supercar you can find in the world.... and all from the maker of overpriced $175K Mustangs. Like they say, nothing compares with Saleen performance. :D

True, the R390 did quite well in '98, though it's hilarious that the then 5 years old Ferrari 333SP and McLaren F1 were still capable of taking the fight to the latest GT1 cars.

Of course, in 1999, the GT1 party ended because of a shift in ACO rules towards open cockpit cars (to curtail the raising costs of GT1 cars).

1 - Team BMW Motorsport,
BMW V12 LMR - Joachim Winkelhock, D Pierluigi Martini, Yannick Dalmas, F
DNS (Res.) Hans-Joachim Stuck Jnr, 365 laps
2 - Toyota Motorsports/TTE, J/D
Toyota GT-One - Ukyo Katayama, Keiichi Tsuchiya (yes, THAT Keiichi Tsuchiya), Toshio Suzuki, LMGTP 364 laps
3 - Audi Sport / Joest Racing,
Audi R8R - Frank Biela, Didier Theys, Emanuele Pirro,
DNS Yvan Muller, LMP 360laps
4 - Audi Sport / Joest Racing,
Audi R8R - Michele Alboreto, Rinaldo Capello, Laurent Aiello, LMP 346laps
5 - David Price Racing / Bscher Racing,
BMW V12 LM98 - Thomas Bscher, Bill Auberlen, Steve Soper, V12 LMP 345laps
6 - Courage Compétition,
Courage C52 - Nissan - Alex Caffi, Andrea Montermini, Domenico 'Mimmo' Schiattarella, DNS Xavier Pompidou, DNS Didier Cottaz, DNS Marc Goosens, DNS Jérôme Policand, LMP 342laps
7 - Panoz Motorsports / Tony W. Fox, USA
Panoz LMP-1 Roadster S - Ford - David Brabham, Eric Bernard, Butch Leitzinger, DNS (Res.) Klaus Graf, LMP 334laps
8 - Nissan Motorsports (NISMO), J
Courage C52 (G-Force) - Nissan Infiniti - Didier Cottaz, Marc Goossens, Fredrik Ekblom, LMP 334laps
9 - Pescarolo Promotion Racing Team,
(La Filiere ELF, F)
Courage C50 - Porsche - Henri Pescarolo, Michel Ferté, Patrice Gay, LMP 327laps
10 - Viper Team ORECA,
Chrysler Viper GTS-R - Olivier Beretta, Karl Wendlinger, Dominique Dupuy, DNS David Donohue, DNS Justin Bell, GTS 325laps
11 - Panoz Motorsports / Tony W. Fox, USA
Panoz LMP-1 Roadster S - Ford - Johnny O'Connell, Jan Magnusen, Massimilliano 'Max' Angelelli, LMP 323laps
12 - Viper Team ORECA, F
Chrysler Viper GTS-R - Tommy Archer, Justin Bell, Marc Duez, DNS Karl Wendlinger, DNS Soheil Ayari, GTS 318laps
13 - Manthey Racing GmbH, D
(Porsche semi-works)
Porsche 996 GT3 - Uwe Alzen, Patrick Huisman, Luca Riccitelli, DNS Olaf Manthey, DNS Bob Wollek, GT 317laps

-24 DNF - Team BMW Motorsport, D
BMW V12 LMR - Tom Kristensen, J.J.Lehto (Jyrki Järvilehto), Jörg Müller, DNS Yannick Dalmas, LMP 304laps Accident damage
-28 DNF - Konrad Motorsport, D
(Talkline Racing for Holland)
Lola B98/10 - Ford - Jan Lammers, Peter Kox, Tom Coronel, LMP 213laps Gearbox
-29 DNF - Audi Sport UK Ltd, GB
Audi R8C - James Weaver, Andy Wallace, Perry McCarthy, LMGTP 198laps Gearbox
-30 DNF - Toyota Motorsports / TTE, J
Toyota GT-One - Thierry Boutsen, Ralph Kelleners, Allan McNish, LMGTP 173laps Accident
-35 DNF - Nissan Motorsports, J
Nissan R391 - Michael Krumm, Satushi Motoyama, Eric Comas, DNS Masami Kageyama, LMP 110laps Electrical
Engine ?
-36 DNF - Toyota Motorsports / TTE, J
Toyota GT-One - Martin Brundle, Emmanuel Collard, Vincenzo Sospiri, LMGTP 90laps Accident
-38 DNF - AMG Mercedes, D
Mercedes CLR - Bernd Schneider, Franck Lagorce, Pedro Lamy, LMGTP 76laps Withdrawn
-39 DNF - AMG Mercedes, D
Mercedes CLR - Christophe Bouchut, Nick Heidfeld, Peter Dumbreck, LMGTP 75laps Accident

Of course it's original, it's the cheapest crap, supercar you can find in the world.... and all from the maker of overpriced $175K Mustangs. Like they say, nothing compares with Saleen performance. :D

0-60 3.2 sry bud I think your supposed saleen shit performance is alittle off. All carbonfiber body and only a v8 still keeps pace with the f1.

well I don't like the scoop-anywhere style of McLaren and Saleen.
That's why I'd choose a Murciélago GTR instead of them, remember we aren't racing pilots.
and the Audi R8R/333 SP/Dauer 962 flounder style is just plain ugly, hence their performance.

0-60 3.2 sry bud I think your supposed saleen shit performance is alittle off. All carbonfiber body and only a v8 still keeps pace with the f1.

let me quote laylah's keeper:

Umm, nope. S7's have yet to win ANYTHING in ALMS GTS competition. They've been hopelessly outclassed by the Corvette C5R and Prodrive 550GTO Maranellos, and barely can keep pace with the 575GTC Maranellos, Rafanelli Olive Garden 550 Maranellos (yes, there were, at one time, three different Maranellos running in GTS) and the newly introduced Murciealago R-GT.

I'll believe it when they start knocking off some major Euro-super cars. At least R390 and TS020 had better luck in the competition. There's more to it than 0-60 for a $400K super car, it means ziltz, not even F1 can has quick acceleration as S7, but a superior car in every way.

well I don't like the scoop-anywhere style of McLaren and Saleen.
That's why I'd choose a Murciélago GTR instead of them, remember we aren't racing pilots.
and the Audi R8R/333 SP/Dauer 962 flounder style is just plain ugly, hence their performance.

I don't know about the McLaren but I imagine it stems from the same thing as the S7. The scoop everywhere is not a look thing. All those scoops help the S7 create more downforce than the weight of the car at 140mph. So wether or not you like it which I do is ok. But it's the old saying "Form follows function"

I don't know about the McLaren but I imagine it stems from the same thing as the S7. The scoop everywhere is not a look thing. All those scoops help the S7 create more downforce than the weight of the car at 140mph. So wether or not you like it which I do is ok. But it's
the old saying "Form follows function"

yea thats very true now a days. but the hood scoop is an air intake there fore it is 1 of the most important elements of the car "cooling'. No air no cool no air fuel mixture no run :grinno:.

The scoop everywhere is not a look thing
I know that. As I said, ugly flounder style, hence their perfomance.(not sure about the language tho)

maybe you only talk about performance, but I like to look at all aspects of a car. Unless you do that, you could answer all of those "who's best" threads with a simple "any Formula 1 car"

The Enzo, e.g., has a totally radical design. Just look at it's profile, I don't think this looks good:

http://www.ferrariaz.com/photos/enzo03/enzo%20side.jpg
looks fast, yes. but this long nose and the boring rear side, just not my taste.

I think the perfect car for me would be a Murciélago Barchetta
http://www.mcarsweb.com/lamborghini/murcielagobarchettae.jpg
the main differences are shorter body overhangs (sp?) and less radical forms. I think it's just more elegant overall.

compared to that murciélago, an enzo is more a nissan r390.

now imagine yourself driving to the cinema, just for an example :)
it's already dawn and there are many people on the streets.
ok, you could go there with an Enzo, but honestly, isn't it a bit too extreme?
that's like using nuclear weapons to shoot a rabbit :D

even if a car is the fastest, rarest, bad assest one on earth, I still want to drive it normally, and that's possible with a Lago or a Modena.
The Koenigsegg CC8s or CCR is the limit (cause of their scoopless, sleek shape), I couldn't drive an F1, a Zonda or an S7 in "normal" cases, they're too extreme one the looks/behavior :)

I heard the S7 is a bitch to drive sometimes it took the guy 5-7 times on C&D mag to get it started cause he was always staulin it out its a icky mofoe better track car the street.