Wouldn't It Be Great
Flatrater
08-05-2004, 09:25 PM
WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR GEORGE W. BUSH OR JOHN
KERRY GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
My Fellow Americans:
As you all know, the defeat of Iraq regime has been completed. Since
congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in
Iraq is complete.
This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces
from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to
begin the reckoning.
Before me, I have two lists.. One list contains the names of countries
which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is
short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia, and Poland are some
of the countries listed there.
The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's
nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of
both lists later this evening.
Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those
nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved
during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the
Iraqi war.
The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world
Hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.
Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money
toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will
hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the
earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia
for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France,
Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring
from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.
I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN
diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking
tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and
crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps
have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or
watch your precious Benzes, Beamers, and limos be turned over to some of
the finest chop shops in the world.
I love New York.
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List # 2. Since we are likely
to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not
pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and
his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will
have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where
I am going to put em?
Yep, border security.
So start doing something with your oil.
Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty ---
starting now. We are tired of the one-way highway. It is time for America
to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens.
Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, "darn tootin."
Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the
world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the
planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate
homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you and we
won't forget. To the nations on List 2, a final thought. Drop dead.
God bless America.
Thank you and good night.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English,
thank a soldier.
KERRY GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
My Fellow Americans:
As you all know, the defeat of Iraq regime has been completed. Since
congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in
Iraq is complete.
This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces
from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to
begin the reckoning.
Before me, I have two lists.. One list contains the names of countries
which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is
short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia, and Poland are some
of the countries listed there.
The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's
nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of
both lists later this evening.
Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those
nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved
during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the
Iraqi war.
The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world
Hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.
Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money
toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will
hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the
earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia
for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France,
Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring
from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.
I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN
diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking
tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and
crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps
have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or
watch your precious Benzes, Beamers, and limos be turned over to some of
the finest chop shops in the world.
I love New York.
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List # 2. Since we are likely
to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not
pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and
his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will
have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where
I am going to put em?
Yep, border security.
So start doing something with your oil.
Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty ---
starting now. We are tired of the one-way highway. It is time for America
to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens.
Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, "darn tootin."
Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the
world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the
planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate
homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you and we
won't forget. To the nations on List 2, a final thought. Drop dead.
God bless America.
Thank you and good night.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English,
thank a soldier.
twospirits
08-05-2004, 09:33 PM
Damn, I was gonna say its the first time I agree with everything you said, but the part of "It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America." messed it up. Oh well 99.99 % I agree with can't be bad. :smile:
TS out
TS out
Cbass
08-06-2004, 02:48 PM
Wow, way to sum up all the ignorant, uninformed misconceptions and myths that are popular in the US these days! Oh wait, you forgot the one about the US saving everyone in WW2. :disappoin
WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR GEORGE W. BUSH OR JOHN
KERRY GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
My Fellow Americans:
As you all know, the defeat of Iraq regime has been completed. Since
congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in
Iraq is complete.
This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces
from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to
begin the reckoning.
And wouldn't it be nice if there was no national debt? Or if the US didn't have a massive problem with poverty in it's inner cities? That's not going away any time soon, and neither is Iraq.
Before me, I have two lists.. One list contains the names of countries
which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is
short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia, and Poland are some
of the countries listed there.
There is a very good reason that your first list is short, namely that the overwhelming majority of the world wanted to see some proof of US and British allegations before sending their citizens to die securing US interests in the middle east.
The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's
nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of
both lists later this evening.
Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those
nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved
during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the
Iraqi war.
How childish can you be? "You didn't help me hijack a country, so I won't give you any foreign aid!". Every western country contributed foreign aid, and expects nothing in return, why should the US be different?
Also, are you aware of exactly how much money the US spends on foreign aid? It's pathetic, $15 billion, of that $5 billion goes directly to Israel. $6 billion of the remaining $10 billion is actually government subsidy of arms sales to third world countries. Gee, that leaves $4 billion, or less than one third of the total ammount which actual goes to HELPING anyone. Also, it would take 10 years for the money saved by cutting foreign aid to equal what has been spent in Iraq already, and considering that the cost of the occupation is greater than $15 billion a year, the difference will only increase. Before you start reposting stupid shit like this, maybe you should actual consider the facts.
The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world
Hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.
Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money
toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home.
That's just great, considering that the US spending for humanitarian aid is miniscule compared to that of Canada, and my country is regarded as a stingy nation by European standards.
The $4 billion saved by this foolish ideal would not make a dent in the education, health care or social assistance problems which plague the US.
I will point out, there are few things more annoying to myself than the belief of the majority of Americans that somehow the US is incredibly generous to third world countries, yet never receives any thanks for it. I have already mentioned how in fact, the US is not that generous, but I should also mention the fact that the humanitarian contributions are usually weighted to support the governments the US favours. It is not so much a humanitarian effort as it is a political one.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.
Now it would have to be Kerry saying that, as Bush has already proven himself incompetent in cracking down on terrorism. Speaking of that, where's Bin Laden? Election time is coming, better pull him out of your ass, Georgie. You'll notice that France and China don't have major terrorism problems, maybe there is a reason for that.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
Brilliant, I don't know how Clinton and Bush could have failed at this so many times and not seen the light of your "Yo, boys" proposal. Think of how many lives could have been saved by those two words. :(
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France,
Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring
from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.
I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN
diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking
tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and
crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps
have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or
watch your precious Benzes, Beamers, and limos be turned over to some of
the finest chop shops in the world.
Ah yes, severing relations with France, the country that won the war of indepence for the US, and has been one of the countries most stalwart allies for centuries, all because they weren't willing to tow the line on Iraq.
Germany, a former enemy and only an ally for five decades, but still a powerful economy and one of the driving forces in the European Union. Let's just stop talking to them, nothing could go wrong there! Not like this would be instigating another cold war, one that the US cannot afford to fight.
Russia, ah yes, Russia. Former superpower, which after recovering from the collapse of the USSR and years of incompetence and corrupt that Yeltsin brought, is becoming more powerful every day, and is making it's presence known in conflicts across the middle east and Asia. Let's go piss them off even more, that sounds like a good idea!
I love New York.
Of course, can't forget the obligatory "I love NY" comment. Why not make the speech draped in the flag and standing in front of a picture of the WTC?
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List # 2. Since we are likely
to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not
pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and
his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will
have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where
I am going to put em?
Yep, border security.
So start doing something with your oil.
Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty ---
starting now. We are tired of the one-way highway. It is time for America
to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens.
Ah yes, Canada does nothing but spit in the eye of the USA. We sit here north of the border, just scheming about how we will confound and fight the US on every issue we can.
Canada is a country that doesn't go around starting wars. We send our soldiers to fight and die to protect the civilians of other countries, through peace keeping. We send a lot of them, and we send them into many nasty places that the US has refused to send their soldiers.
We do NOT pledge them to fight for the US whenever the whim strikes a President to invade another country on worthless pretenses. Get your head out of your ass.
NAFTA? Go ahead and see how many weeks the American economy can last without it. Also, note how the US has practiced illegal protectionist trade practices since day one with Canada and the US, and simply ties them up in the world trade courts for years with appeals. Know anything about the softwood lumber dispute? I didn't think so.
Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, "darn tootin."
Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the
world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the
planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate
homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
At that I can only roll my eyes. Maybe some of those massive subsidies to corporations, and huge tax cuts could have done that. One year of those costs more than the last hundred years of foreign aid combined.
To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you and we won't forget. To the nations on List 2, a final thought. Drop dead.
God bless America.
Thank you and good night.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English,
thank a soldier.
The rest of that doesn't even warrant a reply.
WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO TURN ON THE TV AND HEAR GEORGE W. BUSH OR JOHN
KERRY GIVE THE FOLLOWING SPEECH?
My Fellow Americans:
As you all know, the defeat of Iraq regime has been completed. Since
congress does not want to spend any more money on this war, our mission in
Iraq is complete.
This morning I gave the order for a complete removal of all American forces
from Iraq. This action will be complete within 30 days. It is now time to
begin the reckoning.
And wouldn't it be nice if there was no national debt? Or if the US didn't have a massive problem with poverty in it's inner cities? That's not going away any time soon, and neither is Iraq.
Before me, I have two lists.. One list contains the names of countries
which have stood by our side during the Iraq conflict. This list is
short. The United Kingdom, Spain, Bulgaria, Australia, and Poland are some
of the countries listed there.
There is a very good reason that your first list is short, namely that the overwhelming majority of the world wanted to see some proof of US and British allegations before sending their citizens to die securing US interests in the middle east.
The other list contains everyone not on the first list. Most of the world's
nations are on that list. My press secretary will be distributing copies of
both lists later this evening.
Let me start by saying that effective immediately, foreign aid to those
nations on List 2 ceases immediately and indefinitely. The money saved
during the first year alone will pretty much pay for the costs of the
Iraqi war.
How childish can you be? "You didn't help me hijack a country, so I won't give you any foreign aid!". Every western country contributed foreign aid, and expects nothing in return, why should the US be different?
Also, are you aware of exactly how much money the US spends on foreign aid? It's pathetic, $15 billion, of that $5 billion goes directly to Israel. $6 billion of the remaining $10 billion is actually government subsidy of arms sales to third world countries. Gee, that leaves $4 billion, or less than one third of the total ammount which actual goes to HELPING anyone. Also, it would take 10 years for the money saved by cutting foreign aid to equal what has been spent in Iraq already, and considering that the cost of the occupation is greater than $15 billion a year, the difference will only increase. Before you start reposting stupid shit like this, maybe you should actual consider the facts.
The American people are no longer going to pour money into third world
Hell-holes and watch those government leaders grow fat on corruption.
Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
In the future, together with Congress, I will work to redirect this money
toward solving the vexing social problems we still have at home.
That's just great, considering that the US spending for humanitarian aid is miniscule compared to that of Canada, and my country is regarded as a stingy nation by European standards.
The $4 billion saved by this foolish ideal would not make a dent in the education, health care or social assistance problems which plague the US.
I will point out, there are few things more annoying to myself than the belief of the majority of Americans that somehow the US is incredibly generous to third world countries, yet never receives any thanks for it. I have already mentioned how in fact, the US is not that generous, but I should also mention the fact that the humanitarian contributions are usually weighted to support the governments the US favours. It is not so much a humanitarian effort as it is a political one.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.
Now it would have to be Kerry saying that, as Bush has already proven himself incompetent in cracking down on terrorism. Speaking of that, where's Bin Laden? Election time is coming, better pull him out of your ass, Georgie. You'll notice that France and China don't have major terrorism problems, maybe there is a reason for that.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
Brilliant, I don't know how Clinton and Bush could have failed at this so many times and not seen the light of your "Yo, boys" proposal. Think of how many lives could have been saved by those two words. :(
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France,
Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring
from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis.
I have instructed the Mayor of New York City to begin towing the many UN
diplomatic vehicles located in Manhattan with more than two unpaid parking
tickets to sites where those vehicles will be stripped, shredded and
crushed. I don't care about whatever treaty pertains to this. You creeps
have tens of thousands of unpaid tickets. Pay those tickets tomorrow or
watch your precious Benzes, Beamers, and limos be turned over to some of
the finest chop shops in the world.
Ah yes, severing relations with France, the country that won the war of indepence for the US, and has been one of the countries most stalwart allies for centuries, all because they weren't willing to tow the line on Iraq.
Germany, a former enemy and only an ally for five decades, but still a powerful economy and one of the driving forces in the European Union. Let's just stop talking to them, nothing could go wrong there! Not like this would be instigating another cold war, one that the US cannot afford to fight.
Russia, ah yes, Russia. Former superpower, which after recovering from the collapse of the USSR and years of incompetence and corrupt that Yeltsin brought, is becoming more powerful every day, and is making it's presence known in conflicts across the middle east and Asia. Let's go piss them off even more, that sounds like a good idea!
I love New York.
Of course, can't forget the obligatory "I love NY" comment. Why not make the speech draped in the flag and standing in front of a picture of the WTC?
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List # 2. Since we are likely
to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not
pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2. President Fox and
his entire corrupt government really need an attitude adjustment. I will
have a couple extra tank and infantry divisions sitting around. Guess where
I am going to put em?
Yep, border security.
So start doing something with your oil.
Oh, by the way, the United States is abrogating the NAFTA treaty ---
starting now. We are tired of the one-way highway. It is time for America
to focus on its own welfare and its own citizens.
Ah yes, Canada does nothing but spit in the eye of the USA. We sit here north of the border, just scheming about how we will confound and fight the US on every issue we can.
Canada is a country that doesn't go around starting wars. We send our soldiers to fight and die to protect the civilians of other countries, through peace keeping. We send a lot of them, and we send them into many nasty places that the US has refused to send their soldiers.
We do NOT pledge them to fight for the US whenever the whim strikes a President to invade another country on worthless pretenses. Get your head out of your ass.
NAFTA? Go ahead and see how many weeks the American economy can last without it. Also, note how the US has practiced illegal protectionist trade practices since day one with Canada and the US, and simply ties them up in the world trade courts for years with appeals. Know anything about the softwood lumber dispute? I didn't think so.
Some will accuse us of isolationism. I answer them by saying, "darn tootin."
Nearly a century of trying to help folks live a decent life around the
world has only earned us the undying enmity of just about everyone on the
planet. It is time to eliminate hunger in America. It is time to eliminate
homelessness in America. It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
At that I can only roll my eyes. Maybe some of those massive subsidies to corporations, and huge tax cuts could have done that. One year of those costs more than the last hundred years of foreign aid combined.
To the nations on List 1, a final thought. Thanks guys. We owe you and we won't forget. To the nations on List 2, a final thought. Drop dead.
God bless America.
Thank you and good night.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English,
thank a soldier.
The rest of that doesn't even warrant a reply.
YogsVR4
08-06-2004, 03:16 PM
Someone has a bug up their ass :rolleyes:
----------------------------------------------------
I was whole heartedly agree with It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
There are several things on that list I whole heatedly support. Troops on the boarder. Leave NATO. Anything that gets us closer to being out of the UN.
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----------------------------------------------------
I was whole heartedly agree with It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
There are several things on that list I whole heatedly support. Troops on the boarder. Leave NATO. Anything that gets us closer to being out of the UN.
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twospirits
08-06-2004, 03:30 PM
I was being sarcastic with my post above, but what is it with hating soccer?
SniperX13
08-06-2004, 05:06 PM
I was being sarcastic with my post above, but what is it with hating soccer?
I see nothing wrong with soccer... any sport that makes a girl so happy, that she just has to rip her shirt off..... is totally supported by me ;)
I see nothing wrong with soccer... any sport that makes a girl so happy, that she just has to rip her shirt off..... is totally supported by me ;)
YogsVR4
08-06-2004, 09:42 PM
I was being sarcastic with my post above, but what is it with hating soccer?
Somebody hates soccer?
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Somebody hates soccer?
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twospirits
08-06-2004, 09:53 PM
It was mentioned near the end of the first post above and I've seen it mentioned elsewhere in AF. I was just curious as to why, but thats for another thread.
Flatrater
08-06-2004, 09:54 PM
Cbass (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=10640)
On the subject of humanitarian aid.
http://www.usaid.gov/
http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/pk1/wwwh00120801.html
If you want do a goggle!
You are in Canada not in the US why do you care about our national debt?
"
As of July 2003, the Government of Canada had contributed the new funds to the following:
$15 million to support the operational budget of the Afghan Transitional Administration through the World Bank's Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund. $5 million to the United Nation's Mine Action Program for Afghanistan to support de-mining activities and to prevent injuries caused by land mines and other unexploded objects. $1.2 million to support civil-military cooperation projects. This will support small development initiatives that contribute to better living conditions for local Afghan communities in areas patrolled by the International Security Assistance Force. Looks like Canad is giving away tons of money!
I'm sorry I must of missed that in history class. I didn't know that only the French soliders fought in the war for America's indepence, I guess no Americans died during that war. BTW that was the only war France ever could be accussed of winning.
Who do you think is driving the Russian economy? The American companies.If it wasn't for other countries in Russia it would go belly up.
ANd what is so wrong with keeping my tax dollars in America? My money needs to help people in AMerica and not some other country that gives 2 shits about their people.
On the subject of humanitarian aid.
http://www.usaid.gov/
http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/pk1/wwwh00120801.html
If you want do a goggle!
You are in Canada not in the US why do you care about our national debt?
"
As of July 2003, the Government of Canada had contributed the new funds to the following:
$15 million to support the operational budget of the Afghan Transitional Administration through the World Bank's Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund. $5 million to the United Nation's Mine Action Program for Afghanistan to support de-mining activities and to prevent injuries caused by land mines and other unexploded objects. $1.2 million to support civil-military cooperation projects. This will support small development initiatives that contribute to better living conditions for local Afghan communities in areas patrolled by the International Security Assistance Force. Looks like Canad is giving away tons of money!
I'm sorry I must of missed that in history class. I didn't know that only the French soliders fought in the war for America's indepence, I guess no Americans died during that war. BTW that was the only war France ever could be accussed of winning.
Who do you think is driving the Russian economy? The American companies.If it wasn't for other countries in Russia it would go belly up.
ANd what is so wrong with keeping my tax dollars in America? My money needs to help people in AMerica and not some other country that gives 2 shits about their people.
Flatrater
08-06-2004, 10:03 PM
For a history of Canada's peace keeping which started in 1956 read here http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnmilitary/peacekeeping.html
taranaki
08-06-2004, 11:36 PM
Wouldn't it be nice?
only if everyone in America was a redneck.Then the rest of the world would be clammering to help set it up.The rest of the world can manage perfectly well without the kind of ignorant racists who create and distribute this cock-eyed garbage.
Thank God for the vast majority of normal civilised people in the States who don't buy into this kind of half-assed blame-the-rest-of-the-world racism dressed as patriotism.
God bless the true Americans,and fuck the retard that wrote that crap.
only if everyone in America was a redneck.Then the rest of the world would be clammering to help set it up.The rest of the world can manage perfectly well without the kind of ignorant racists who create and distribute this cock-eyed garbage.
Thank God for the vast majority of normal civilised people in the States who don't buy into this kind of half-assed blame-the-rest-of-the-world racism dressed as patriotism.
God bless the true Americans,and fuck the retard that wrote that crap.
RedLightning
08-07-2004, 01:26 AM
well i like it all pretty much except the "I love New York." (i guess im a redneck :flipa: )
a europeans defenition of a true american=one who does not see through their bullshit, one who only contributes to them, and one who loves them and does their every bidding.
the reason that ppl from other countries think this is stupid is because it would force them to help out in the world.
oh i like this- It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
Wouldn't it be nice?
only if everyone in America was a redneck.Then the rest of the world would be clammering to help set it up.The rest of the world can manage perfectly well without the kind of ignorant racists who create and distribute this cock-eyed garbage.
Thank God for the vast majority of normal civilised people in the States who don't buy into this kind of half-assed blame-the-rest-of-the-world racism dressed as patriotism.
God bless the true Americans,and fuck the retard that wrote that crap.
"There are clearly a wide range of political opinions being displayed in this forum.Some you may agree with,some you may not.Please remember that holding a different opinion to the previous poster does not entitle you to make personal attacks on them.If you think that their argument is unsupported,feel free to say so,but don't abuse them.It's tedious, and won't be tolerated.The user guidelines of AF apply in this forum,,please keep within them."-taranaki
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html
a europeans defenition of a true american=one who does not see through their bullshit, one who only contributes to them, and one who loves them and does their every bidding.
the reason that ppl from other countries think this is stupid is because it would force them to help out in the world.
oh i like this- It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
Wouldn't it be nice?
only if everyone in America was a redneck.Then the rest of the world would be clammering to help set it up.The rest of the world can manage perfectly well without the kind of ignorant racists who create and distribute this cock-eyed garbage.
Thank God for the vast majority of normal civilised people in the States who don't buy into this kind of half-assed blame-the-rest-of-the-world racism dressed as patriotism.
God bless the true Americans,and fuck the retard that wrote that crap.
"There are clearly a wide range of political opinions being displayed in this forum.Some you may agree with,some you may not.Please remember that holding a different opinion to the previous poster does not entitle you to make personal attacks on them.If you think that their argument is unsupported,feel free to say so,but don't abuse them.It's tedious, and won't be tolerated.The user guidelines of AF apply in this forum,,please keep within them."-taranaki
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html
Flatrater
08-07-2004, 12:57 PM
I really think its time for the US to solve its problems within its borders and stop meddling in other countries.
Isn't that what you have preached in the past? Isn't this topic a call to fix America's problems first and foremost. Why should we help end hunger in another country while we have hunger in America? Why should we worry about AIDS in another country while we have AIDS here? Why should we care about corrupt governments when you post repeatedly about how corrupt you think Bush is? Who cares who is killing who in another country while we have murders happening in the US? Shouldn't America's problems come first?
Isn't that what you have preached in the past? Isn't this topic a call to fix America's problems first and foremost. Why should we help end hunger in another country while we have hunger in America? Why should we worry about AIDS in another country while we have AIDS here? Why should we care about corrupt governments when you post repeatedly about how corrupt you think Bush is? Who cares who is killing who in another country while we have murders happening in the US? Shouldn't America's problems come first?
Flatrater
08-07-2004, 01:01 PM
And I love New York since I was raised there! World cup soccer who cares!
This is about help those that help us. To me those people that help us should get the first crack at what we offer.
This is about help those that help us. To me those people that help us should get the first crack at what we offer.
taranaki
08-07-2004, 02:43 PM
"There are clearly a wide range of political opinions being displayed in this forum.Some you may agree with,some you may not.Please remember that holding a different opinion to the previous poster does not entitle you to make personal attacks on them.If you think that their argument is unsupported,feel free to say so,but don't abuse them.It's tedious, and won't be tolerated.The user guidelines of AF apply in this forum,,please keep within them."-taranaki
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html
Nice of you to quote me,dork,but it's getting rather tedious trying to get it through to people like you that I am not in any way insulting you personally when I make a statement about your worthless president or fake patriots such as the author of this obnoxious piece of shit.I don't take it personally when you pour criticism on the worthy values that I admire such as pacifism, multi-nationalism and civilised behaviour in general,If you'd rather follow the wrong path,that's entirely your own business.
If you choose to get upset because I believe George Bush to be a worthless twat,that's a problem for you to deal with in your own way.Nobody is sticking the label on you.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html
Nice of you to quote me,dork,but it's getting rather tedious trying to get it through to people like you that I am not in any way insulting you personally when I make a statement about your worthless president or fake patriots such as the author of this obnoxious piece of shit.I don't take it personally when you pour criticism on the worthy values that I admire such as pacifism, multi-nationalism and civilised behaviour in general,If you'd rather follow the wrong path,that's entirely your own business.
If you choose to get upset because I believe George Bush to be a worthless twat,that's a problem for you to deal with in your own way.Nobody is sticking the label on you.
RedLightning
08-07-2004, 04:45 PM
well agreeing with something is just like writing it. You guys say america should get out of other countries business but at the thougth that americans might actually want to just help themselves for a change you guys get all pissed off. You guys flip flop worse then kerry.
taranaki
08-07-2004, 10:59 PM
Well agreeing with something is just like writing it. You guys say america should get out of other countries business but at the thougth that americans might actually want to just help themselves for a change you guys get all pissed off. You guys flip flop worse then kerry.
Agreeing with something is NOT just like writing it.Even jackass crap like that requires a minimal amount of thought to prepare.Reading a simplistic and idealist ramble like that and agreeing with it wholesale requires absolutely no thought at all.
Clearly you have no idea what it is that is so offensive about this author's mindset.It's not what he proposes to do[some of the principals of the argument are actually very good] it's the attitude and the repeated misrepresentations....
Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
Pretending that only America gives international aid is stupid.American emergency aid would be far more useful if it came without strings,and was handed directly those who actually need it.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will
hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the
earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.Nice threat,but you've failed so far.Can't find your offender?picking on an outstanding agenda instead is not a solution.Quit bragging,find Osama.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia
for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
America makes a fortune selling weapons and weapons technology overseas.Perhaps if you stopped putting so much fuel on the fires they would die down a little.Keep your guns and dirty bombs for yourself.Let's see the Israelis come up with the technology to launch helicopter attacks into the civilian population if they can't get cheap helicopters.
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France,
Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring
from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis. NATO? Obsolete.Europe needs to consolidate on its own side of the Atlantic to counter lunatics like Bush.As for severing of diplomatic relations.....the authors is a loser,his idea of 'diplomatic relations' is probably the rest of the world doing as it's told by the Prez.
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List # 2. Since we are likely
to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not
pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2.
Just to make it clear what a useless racist dickhead the author is, he slaps down another couple of countries.Maybe the author should stick to his better ideas, instead of coating everything with a thick layer of ignorant prejudice.
I'd love to see America become a more insular state.If this clown chooses to promote it because it fits in with his dumb redneck mentality,fine.But I wish people like him would improve the world by shooting themselves in the head.
Agreeing with something is NOT just like writing it.Even jackass crap like that requires a minimal amount of thought to prepare.Reading a simplistic and idealist ramble like that and agreeing with it wholesale requires absolutely no thought at all.
Clearly you have no idea what it is that is so offensive about this author's mindset.It's not what he proposes to do[some of the principals of the argument are actually very good] it's the attitude and the repeated misrepresentations....
Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
Pretending that only America gives international aid is stupid.American emergency aid would be far more useful if it came without strings,and was handed directly those who actually need it.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will
hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the
earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.Nice threat,but you've failed so far.Can't find your offender?picking on an outstanding agenda instead is not a solution.Quit bragging,find Osama.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia
for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
America makes a fortune selling weapons and weapons technology overseas.Perhaps if you stopped putting so much fuel on the fires they would die down a little.Keep your guns and dirty bombs for yourself.Let's see the Israelis come up with the technology to launch helicopter attacks into the civilian population if they can't get cheap helicopters.
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France,
Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring
from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis. NATO? Obsolete.Europe needs to consolidate on its own side of the Atlantic to counter lunatics like Bush.As for severing of diplomatic relations.....the authors is a loser,his idea of 'diplomatic relations' is probably the rest of the world doing as it's told by the Prez.
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List # 2. Since we are likely
to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not
pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2.
Just to make it clear what a useless racist dickhead the author is, he slaps down another couple of countries.Maybe the author should stick to his better ideas, instead of coating everything with a thick layer of ignorant prejudice.
I'd love to see America become a more insular state.If this clown chooses to promote it because it fits in with his dumb redneck mentality,fine.But I wish people like him would improve the world by shooting themselves in the head.
YogsVR4
08-08-2004, 11:32 AM
Need help with a famine? Wrestling with an epidemic? Call France.
Pretending that only America gives international aid is stupid.American emergency aid would be far more useful if it came without strings,and was handed directly those who actually need it.
To imply that we think we are the only ones to provide emergency aid is disengenous and just setting up a straw man so you can take pot shots at it.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will
hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the
earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.Nice threat,but you've failed so far.Can't find your offender?picking on an outstanding agenda instead is not a solution.Quit bragging,find Osama.
If I can use your previous straw man logic, the only terrorist in the world is Osama. He is, alone, responsible for every terrorist act. His death and his death alone will stop terrorism.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia
for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
America makes a fortune selling weapons and weapons technology overseas.Perhaps if you stopped putting so much fuel on the fires they would die down a little.Keep your guns and dirty bombs for yourself.Let's see the Israelis come up with the technology to launch helicopter attacks into the civilian population if they can't get cheap helicopters.
Of course its the supply side with socialists. Never the demand side.
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France,
Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring
from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis. NATO? Obsolete.Europe needs to consolidate on its own side of the Atlantic to counter lunatics like Bush.As for severing of diplomatic relations.....the authors is a loser,his idea of 'diplomatic relations' is probably the rest of the world doing as it's told by the Prez.
Yeah - Europe has needed to go stand on its own for some time now. Its to bad that Germany went up in arms when the president wanted to close down the bases there.
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List # 2. Since we are likely
to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not
pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2.
Just to make it clear what a useless racist dickhead the author is, he slaps down another couple of countries.Maybe the author should stick to his better ideas, instead of coating everything with a thick layer of ignorant prejudice.
Racist? Either you're setting up another straw man or you don't have any idea what racism is. You don't know shit about the problem we're having with Mexico. The boarder is a sieve. Fox isn't doing a thing to stop the movement of people and drugs. We need to revamp our immigration and at the same time put troops on the boarder to enforce it.
I'd love to see America become a more insular state.If this clown chooses to promote it because it fits in with his dumb redneck mentality,fine.But I wish people like him would improve the world by shooting themselves in the head.
One last straw man. If only all people you disagree with would shoot themselves in the head, huh. Thats why we have such a good time here in America. We get to listen to all the facist statements.
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Pretending that only America gives international aid is stupid.American emergency aid would be far more useful if it came without strings,and was handed directly those who actually need it.
To imply that we think we are the only ones to provide emergency aid is disengenous and just setting up a straw man so you can take pot shots at it.
On that note, a word to terrorist organizations. Screw with us and we will
hunt you down and eliminate you and all your friends from the face of the
earth. Thirsting for a gutsy country to terrorize? Try France, or maybe China.Nice threat,but you've failed so far.Can't find your offender?picking on an outstanding agenda instead is not a solution.Quit bragging,find Osama.
If I can use your previous straw man logic, the only terrorist in the world is Osama. He is, alone, responsible for every terrorist act. His death and his death alone will stop terrorism.
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia
for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
America makes a fortune selling weapons and weapons technology overseas.Perhaps if you stopped putting so much fuel on the fires they would die down a little.Keep your guns and dirty bombs for yourself.Let's see the Israelis come up with the technology to launch helicopter attacks into the civilian population if they can't get cheap helicopters.
Of course its the supply side with socialists. Never the demand side.
I am ordering the immediate severing of diplomatic relations with France,
Germany, and Russia. Thanks for all your help, comrades. We are retiring
from NATO as well. Bon chance, mes amis. NATO? Obsolete.Europe needs to consolidate on its own side of the Atlantic to counter lunatics like Bush.As for severing of diplomatic relations.....the authors is a loser,his idea of 'diplomatic relations' is probably the rest of the world doing as it's told by the Prez.
Yeah - Europe has needed to go stand on its own for some time now. Its to bad that Germany went up in arms when the president wanted to close down the bases there.
A special note to our neighbors. Canada is on List # 2. Since we are likely
to be seeing a lot more of each other, you folks might want to try not
pissing us off for a change. Mexico is also on List 2.
Just to make it clear what a useless racist dickhead the author is, he slaps down another couple of countries.Maybe the author should stick to his better ideas, instead of coating everything with a thick layer of ignorant prejudice.
Racist? Either you're setting up another straw man or you don't have any idea what racism is. You don't know shit about the problem we're having with Mexico. The boarder is a sieve. Fox isn't doing a thing to stop the movement of people and drugs. We need to revamp our immigration and at the same time put troops on the boarder to enforce it.
I'd love to see America become a more insular state.If this clown chooses to promote it because it fits in with his dumb redneck mentality,fine.But I wish people like him would improve the world by shooting themselves in the head.
One last straw man. If only all people you disagree with would shoot themselves in the head, huh. Thats why we have such a good time here in America. We get to listen to all the facist statements.
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Cbass
08-08-2004, 01:54 PM
Cbass (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=10640)
On the subject of humanitarian aid.
http://www.usaid.gov/
http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/pk1/wwwh00120801.html
If you want do a goggle!
Wow, I didn't see any actual hard numbers in your links, just a bunch of feel good bs.
http://cfrterrorism.org/policy/foreignaid.html
This link has some real hard numbers, especially in comparison to other countries. Sure, the US contributes twice as much foreign aid as some other countries, but when compared to the relative budgets of these countries, it quickly becomes apparent that the US is pretty tight about foreign aid.
You are in Canada not in the US why do you care about our national debt?
Because my country does 80% of it's trade with the US, and there is only so much that can be done to insulate the Canadian economy from the US economy's woes. When the US economy tanks, Canada feels the effects. It's a pretty simple matter of economics. :rolleyes:
"
As of July 2003, the Government of Canada had contributed the new funds to the following:
$15 million to support the operational budget of the Afghan Transitional Administration through the World Bank's Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund. $5 million to the United Nation's Mine Action Program for Afghanistan to support de-mining activities and to prevent injuries caused by land mines and other unexploded objects. $1.2 million to support civil-military cooperation projects. This will support small development initiatives that contribute to better living conditions for local Afghan communities in areas patrolled by the International Security Assistance Force. Looks like Canad is giving away tons of money!
Those funds are a very small part of Canadian foreign assistance, which totals just under $2 billion annually. When you consider how much of the Canadian budget that is, compared to that of the US contribution, it becomes apparent that Canada is much more generous. Even then, we are considered stingy in comparison to most western European nations.
I'm sorry I must of missed that in history class. I didn't know that only the French soliders fought in the war for America's indepence, I guess no Americans died during that war. BTW that was the only war France ever could be accussed of winning.
Did I ever say that only the French fought in the war of independence? Of course not, what I stated was that they won the war for the colonists. Which they did, without the help of France, the US would likely be a colony to this day.
If you had ever paid attention in history class, you'd know that the French have done quite well against the Spanish, the English, the Germans, and countless peoples that they colonized. It took most of the powerful countries in Europe to stop Napoleon at the beginning of the 19th century.
Who do you think is driving the Russian economy? The American companies.If it wasn't for other countries in Russia it would go belly up.
Who do you think is driving the American economy? :disappoin
ANd what is so wrong with keeping my tax dollars in America? My money needs to help people in AMerica and not some other country that gives 2 shits about their people.
What a noble and selfless sentiment! I'm willing to bet you're not a tremendous fan of health care of state sponsored post secondary education either.
On the subject of humanitarian aid.
http://www.usaid.gov/
http://usembassy.state.gov/posts/pk1/wwwh00120801.html
If you want do a goggle!
Wow, I didn't see any actual hard numbers in your links, just a bunch of feel good bs.
http://cfrterrorism.org/policy/foreignaid.html
This link has some real hard numbers, especially in comparison to other countries. Sure, the US contributes twice as much foreign aid as some other countries, but when compared to the relative budgets of these countries, it quickly becomes apparent that the US is pretty tight about foreign aid.
You are in Canada not in the US why do you care about our national debt?
Because my country does 80% of it's trade with the US, and there is only so much that can be done to insulate the Canadian economy from the US economy's woes. When the US economy tanks, Canada feels the effects. It's a pretty simple matter of economics. :rolleyes:
"
As of July 2003, the Government of Canada had contributed the new funds to the following:
$15 million to support the operational budget of the Afghan Transitional Administration through the World Bank's Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund. $5 million to the United Nation's Mine Action Program for Afghanistan to support de-mining activities and to prevent injuries caused by land mines and other unexploded objects. $1.2 million to support civil-military cooperation projects. This will support small development initiatives that contribute to better living conditions for local Afghan communities in areas patrolled by the International Security Assistance Force. Looks like Canad is giving away tons of money!
Those funds are a very small part of Canadian foreign assistance, which totals just under $2 billion annually. When you consider how much of the Canadian budget that is, compared to that of the US contribution, it becomes apparent that Canada is much more generous. Even then, we are considered stingy in comparison to most western European nations.
I'm sorry I must of missed that in history class. I didn't know that only the French soliders fought in the war for America's indepence, I guess no Americans died during that war. BTW that was the only war France ever could be accussed of winning.
Did I ever say that only the French fought in the war of independence? Of course not, what I stated was that they won the war for the colonists. Which they did, without the help of France, the US would likely be a colony to this day.
If you had ever paid attention in history class, you'd know that the French have done quite well against the Spanish, the English, the Germans, and countless peoples that they colonized. It took most of the powerful countries in Europe to stop Napoleon at the beginning of the 19th century.
Who do you think is driving the Russian economy? The American companies.If it wasn't for other countries in Russia it would go belly up.
Who do you think is driving the American economy? :disappoin
ANd what is so wrong with keeping my tax dollars in America? My money needs to help people in AMerica and not some other country that gives 2 shits about their people.
What a noble and selfless sentiment! I'm willing to bet you're not a tremendous fan of health care of state sponsored post secondary education either.
Cbass
08-08-2004, 02:06 PM
well i like it all pretty much except the "I love New York." (i guess im a redneck :flipa: )
a europeans defenition of a true american=one who does not see through their bullshit, one who only contributes to them, and one who loves them and does their every bidding.
Wow, what an enlightened point of view! I can tell you're well versed in international politics and diplomacy. So what constitutes "their bullshit" in your eyes? The notion that as the most priviledged people in the world, we have a moral obligation to help those that we exploit through global economics?
the reason that ppl from other countries think this is stupid is because it would force them to help out in the world.
You really don't have a clue what you're talking about on this, do you? See the link in my post above this one. :banghead:
oh i like this- It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
Football is a far better game than most of the popular sports in the US, it requires far more skill, and actual teamwork. Just my two cents. :2cents:
"There are clearly a wide range of political opinions being displayed in this forum.Some you may agree with,some you may not.Please remember that holding a different opinion to the previous poster does not entitle you to make personal attacks on them.If you think that their argument is unsupported,feel free to say so,but don't abuse them.It's tedious, and won't be tolerated.The user guidelines of AF apply in this forum,,please keep within them."-taranaki
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html
How trite.
a europeans defenition of a true american=one who does not see through their bullshit, one who only contributes to them, and one who loves them and does their every bidding.
Wow, what an enlightened point of view! I can tell you're well versed in international politics and diplomacy. So what constitutes "their bullshit" in your eyes? The notion that as the most priviledged people in the world, we have a moral obligation to help those that we exploit through global economics?
the reason that ppl from other countries think this is stupid is because it would force them to help out in the world.
You really don't have a clue what you're talking about on this, do you? See the link in my post above this one. :banghead:
oh i like this- It is time to eliminate World Cup Soccer from America.
Football is a far better game than most of the popular sports in the US, it requires far more skill, and actual teamwork. Just my two cents. :2cents:
"There are clearly a wide range of political opinions being displayed in this forum.Some you may agree with,some you may not.Please remember that holding a different opinion to the previous poster does not entitle you to make personal attacks on them.If you think that their argument is unsupported,feel free to say so,but don't abuse them.It's tedious, and won't be tolerated.The user guidelines of AF apply in this forum,,please keep within them."-taranaki
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html
How trite.
MagicRat
08-08-2004, 02:23 PM
I shake my head in wonder at the position taken by the Americans in this thread. The American economy is thoroughly interdependent on many nations that were on this idiotic list #2 and with NAFTA. Such stupid egotistical posturing would severely harm the US economy and their international relations.
I sincerely thank Cbass and naki for effectively pointing out the flaws in the arguments of the Americans here.
I sincerely thank Cbass and naki for effectively pointing out the flaws in the arguments of the Americans here.
Cbass
08-08-2004, 02:43 PM
To imply that we think we are the only ones to provide emergency aid is disengenous and just setting up a straw man so you can take pot shots at it.
If you listen to the gist of nameless dork's rhetoric, it implies just that. No straw men here Yogi, just a whole lot of crowing. :icon16:
If I can use your previous straw man logic, the only terrorist in the world is Osama. He is, alone, responsible for every terrorist act. His death and his death alone will stop terrorism.
Not the only terrorist surely, but the one who is, at least according to the white house, responsible for the deaths of nearly 4000 Americans and Africans through terrorism. He is supposedly the catalyst for the "War on terror", so you'd think he'd have top priority.
The fact that he's still alive has probalby not done much to discourage would be terrorists.
Of course its the supply side with socialists. Never the demand side.
It's obvious the demand is there, perhaps if the supply wasn't, there wouldn't be such a problem.
If you listen to the gist of nameless dork's rhetoric, it implies just that. No straw men here Yogi, just a whole lot of crowing. :icon16:
If I can use your previous straw man logic, the only terrorist in the world is Osama. He is, alone, responsible for every terrorist act. His death and his death alone will stop terrorism.
Not the only terrorist surely, but the one who is, at least according to the white house, responsible for the deaths of nearly 4000 Americans and Africans through terrorism. He is supposedly the catalyst for the "War on terror", so you'd think he'd have top priority.
The fact that he's still alive has probalby not done much to discourage would be terrorists.
Of course its the supply side with socialists. Never the demand side.
It's obvious the demand is there, perhaps if the supply wasn't, there wouldn't be such a problem.
Flatrater
08-08-2004, 03:22 PM
Wow, I didn't see any actual hard numbers in your links, just a bunch of feel good bs.
http://cfrterrorism.org/policy/foreignaid.html
This link has some real hard numbers, especially in comparison to other countries. Sure, the US contributes twice as much foreign aid as some other countries, but when compared to the relative budgets of these countries, it quickly becomes apparent that the US is pretty tight about foreign aid.
From your link "In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid." You can't spend percentages only dollars. 11.5 billion isn't enough for you. What you want the US to give away triple of the rest of the world. If a country has poor managment skills when it comes to their economy they need to learn how to make it on what they have and not expect hadouts to run their country. How much money have you given to help other countries, what is the percentage of your income going to others? And I guess you didnt't bother to read my links if you did you would of seen the dollar amounts given away.
Because my country does 80% of it's trade with the US, and there is only so much that can be done to insulate the Canadian economy from the US economy's woes. When the US economy tanks, Canada feels the effects. It's a pretty simple matter of economics. :rolleyes:
Have you ever heard don't put all your eggs in one basket? The US isn't the only country in the world, Canada needs to trade with the rest of the world.
Those funds are a very small part of Canadian foreign assistance, which totals just under $2 billion annually. When you consider how much of the Canadian budget that is, compared to that of the US contribution, it becomes apparent that Canada is much more generous. Even then, we are considered stingy in comparison to most western European nations.
So you are saying the US should spend 50 billion on aid while we have hunger, unemployment, homeless and the rest of the world combined will spend 20 billion total? How about this every country spends the same amount!
Did I ever say that only the French fought in the war of independence? Of course not, what I stated was that they won the war for the colonists. Which they did, without the help of France, the US would likely be a colony to this day.
No the Americans won the war with France's help.
If you had ever paid attention in history class, you'd know that the French have done quite well against the Spanish, the English, the Germans, and countless peoples that they colonized. It took most of the powerful countries in Europe to stop Napoleon at the beginning of the 19th century.
After napoleon France has sucked when it comes to winning wars.
Who do you think is driving the American economy? :disappoin
American businesses are driving the economy. Democracy is driving the economy.
What a noble and selfless sentiment! I'm willing to bet you're not a tremendous fan of health care of state sponsored post secondary education either.
It depends on what aspect of health care you are talking about. I am against state sponsored programs. The government needs to stick with governing the nation and not on handouts. I believe in less government and not more.
http://cfrterrorism.org/policy/foreignaid.html
This link has some real hard numbers, especially in comparison to other countries. Sure, the US contributes twice as much foreign aid as some other countries, but when compared to the relative budgets of these countries, it quickly becomes apparent that the US is pretty tight about foreign aid.
From your link "In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid." You can't spend percentages only dollars. 11.5 billion isn't enough for you. What you want the US to give away triple of the rest of the world. If a country has poor managment skills when it comes to their economy they need to learn how to make it on what they have and not expect hadouts to run their country. How much money have you given to help other countries, what is the percentage of your income going to others? And I guess you didnt't bother to read my links if you did you would of seen the dollar amounts given away.
Because my country does 80% of it's trade with the US, and there is only so much that can be done to insulate the Canadian economy from the US economy's woes. When the US economy tanks, Canada feels the effects. It's a pretty simple matter of economics. :rolleyes:
Have you ever heard don't put all your eggs in one basket? The US isn't the only country in the world, Canada needs to trade with the rest of the world.
Those funds are a very small part of Canadian foreign assistance, which totals just under $2 billion annually. When you consider how much of the Canadian budget that is, compared to that of the US contribution, it becomes apparent that Canada is much more generous. Even then, we are considered stingy in comparison to most western European nations.
So you are saying the US should spend 50 billion on aid while we have hunger, unemployment, homeless and the rest of the world combined will spend 20 billion total? How about this every country spends the same amount!
Did I ever say that only the French fought in the war of independence? Of course not, what I stated was that they won the war for the colonists. Which they did, without the help of France, the US would likely be a colony to this day.
No the Americans won the war with France's help.
If you had ever paid attention in history class, you'd know that the French have done quite well against the Spanish, the English, the Germans, and countless peoples that they colonized. It took most of the powerful countries in Europe to stop Napoleon at the beginning of the 19th century.
After napoleon France has sucked when it comes to winning wars.
Who do you think is driving the American economy? :disappoin
American businesses are driving the economy. Democracy is driving the economy.
What a noble and selfless sentiment! I'm willing to bet you're not a tremendous fan of health care of state sponsored post secondary education either.
It depends on what aspect of health care you are talking about. I am against state sponsored programs. The government needs to stick with governing the nation and not on handouts. I believe in less government and not more.
Cbass
08-08-2004, 05:29 PM
From your link "In raw dollars, however, the United States is now the world’s top donor of economic aid." You can't spend percentages only dollars.
So you don't see any difference between a guy who works a minimum wage job giving money to a charity, and someone who makes $100K a year giving slightly more money to that charity? Who's contribution holds more virtue, the one who can easily afford it, or the guy who's just scraping by, who still gives his last buck to help someone else? The massive difference of what the US can give, compared to what the US does give is pretty apparent when you compare the US to a country like France or Canada.
11.5 billion isn't enough for you. What you want the US to give away triple of the rest of the world. If a country has poor managment skills when it comes to their economy they need to learn how to make it on what they have and not expect hadouts to run their country.
$11.5 billion is a lot of money to be sure, but the US could easily give more. So far, Bush has spent $130 billion in Iraq. That's in one year, and he has spent more than ten years foreign aid. Where is that money going to come from? Why are you not bitching about spending so much on that war, which you idealistically support, while you gripe and moan about contributions to some of the least able countries in the world? That's a vicious double standard.
I hear the old right wing rhetoric of social politics again, applied to global economics. Sometimes, things are not as cut and dried as they seem. In Africa, climate change is devastating many countries, as famine has, disease has, colonial occupation, etc. They need our help, because they CAN'T help themselves and magically create economies out of sand and dust.
How much money have you given to help other countries, what is the percentage of your income going to others? And I guess you didnt't bother to read my links if you did you would of seen the dollar amounts given away.
I saw some numbers for Afghanistan alone, which I would not even want to touch with a ten foot pole if I were you. Afghanistan was bombed and invaded by the US, remember? There is a slight obligation involved there.
My link contains some actual hard numbers about how much is spent, and how that relates to the spending of other countries.
Have you ever heard don't put all your eggs in one basket? The US isn't the only country in the world, Canada needs to trade with the rest of the world.
I agree, but unfortunately a succession of corporation friendly prime ministers have done everything in their power to bring Canada economically closer to the US, and now Canada is hooped.
So you are saying the US should spend 50 billion on aid while we have hunger, unemployment, homeless and the rest of the world combined will spend 20 billion total? How about this every country spends the same amount!
Sigh... Obviously not every country can contribute as much as the RICHEST country in the world can. How about this, everyone contributes a flat percentage of their budget, how about the same that France or Germany contributes? That would be fair, now wouldn't it?
The rest of the world contributes considerably more than the US does even when they can't afford nearly as much, so get off your high horse.
If you are so gravely concerned about domestic issues and the funds necessary for them, perhaps you should see this link.
http://costofwar.com/
No the Americans won the war with France's help.
France kept the US from being blockaded, shelled and invaded with the full might of Britains armies. The colonists would have had no chance if Britain wasn't courting war with France at the time, and considered the defence of the homeland far more important than some petty colony overseas. Britain had many colonies at the time, if you recall.
After napoleon France has sucked when it comes to winning wars.
And your point is? Exactly, you don't have one, you're just spewing more of the sort of claptrap this article imbues.
American businesses are driving the economy. Democracy is driving the economy.
Foreign dollars and inflated numbers drive the US economy. The national debt is unsustainable, the employment rate is abysmal, professionals, tradesmen, and scientists are out of work, while the "new jobs" are all part time two shift a week mcjobs. Democracy doesn't drive the economy, greed does.
It depends on what aspect of health care you are talking about. I am against state sponsored programs. The government needs to stick with governing the nation and not on handouts. I believe in less government and not more.
That's pretty much what I figured. After all, why should everyone get the chance to do what they want for a living? Fuck the poor, only the well off should have the priviledge of post secondary education.
So you don't see any difference between a guy who works a minimum wage job giving money to a charity, and someone who makes $100K a year giving slightly more money to that charity? Who's contribution holds more virtue, the one who can easily afford it, or the guy who's just scraping by, who still gives his last buck to help someone else? The massive difference of what the US can give, compared to what the US does give is pretty apparent when you compare the US to a country like France or Canada.
11.5 billion isn't enough for you. What you want the US to give away triple of the rest of the world. If a country has poor managment skills when it comes to their economy they need to learn how to make it on what they have and not expect hadouts to run their country.
$11.5 billion is a lot of money to be sure, but the US could easily give more. So far, Bush has spent $130 billion in Iraq. That's in one year, and he has spent more than ten years foreign aid. Where is that money going to come from? Why are you not bitching about spending so much on that war, which you idealistically support, while you gripe and moan about contributions to some of the least able countries in the world? That's a vicious double standard.
I hear the old right wing rhetoric of social politics again, applied to global economics. Sometimes, things are not as cut and dried as they seem. In Africa, climate change is devastating many countries, as famine has, disease has, colonial occupation, etc. They need our help, because they CAN'T help themselves and magically create economies out of sand and dust.
How much money have you given to help other countries, what is the percentage of your income going to others? And I guess you didnt't bother to read my links if you did you would of seen the dollar amounts given away.
I saw some numbers for Afghanistan alone, which I would not even want to touch with a ten foot pole if I were you. Afghanistan was bombed and invaded by the US, remember? There is a slight obligation involved there.
My link contains some actual hard numbers about how much is spent, and how that relates to the spending of other countries.
Have you ever heard don't put all your eggs in one basket? The US isn't the only country in the world, Canada needs to trade with the rest of the world.
I agree, but unfortunately a succession of corporation friendly prime ministers have done everything in their power to bring Canada economically closer to the US, and now Canada is hooped.
So you are saying the US should spend 50 billion on aid while we have hunger, unemployment, homeless and the rest of the world combined will spend 20 billion total? How about this every country spends the same amount!
Sigh... Obviously not every country can contribute as much as the RICHEST country in the world can. How about this, everyone contributes a flat percentage of their budget, how about the same that France or Germany contributes? That would be fair, now wouldn't it?
The rest of the world contributes considerably more than the US does even when they can't afford nearly as much, so get off your high horse.
If you are so gravely concerned about domestic issues and the funds necessary for them, perhaps you should see this link.
http://costofwar.com/
No the Americans won the war with France's help.
France kept the US from being blockaded, shelled and invaded with the full might of Britains armies. The colonists would have had no chance if Britain wasn't courting war with France at the time, and considered the defence of the homeland far more important than some petty colony overseas. Britain had many colonies at the time, if you recall.
After napoleon France has sucked when it comes to winning wars.
And your point is? Exactly, you don't have one, you're just spewing more of the sort of claptrap this article imbues.
American businesses are driving the economy. Democracy is driving the economy.
Foreign dollars and inflated numbers drive the US economy. The national debt is unsustainable, the employment rate is abysmal, professionals, tradesmen, and scientists are out of work, while the "new jobs" are all part time two shift a week mcjobs. Democracy doesn't drive the economy, greed does.
It depends on what aspect of health care you are talking about. I am against state sponsored programs. The government needs to stick with governing the nation and not on handouts. I believe in less government and not more.
That's pretty much what I figured. After all, why should everyone get the chance to do what they want for a living? Fuck the poor, only the well off should have the priviledge of post secondary education.
YogsVR4
08-08-2004, 06:11 PM
If you listen to the gist of nameless dork's rhetoric, it implies just that. No straw men here Yogi, just a whole lot of crowing. :icon16:
If I were talking about you guys my comment would have been different.
Not the only terrorist surely, but the one who is, at least according to the white house, responsible for the deaths of nearly 4000 Americans and Africans through terrorism. He is supposedly the catalyst for the "War on terror", so you'd think he'd have top priority.
The fact that he's still alive has probalby not done much to discourage would be terrorists.
I'd say the same for Arafat too.
Did I ever say that only the French fought in the war of independence? Of course not, what I stated was that they won the war for the colonists. Which they did, without the help of France, the US would likely be a colony to this day.
Thats the same poor logic used when any American says "And you'd all be speaking German now." or "Canada was founded by the losers of the revolutionary war." Its taking a fact and reaching an unsubstantiated conclusion. Winning the war with the French was easier then without them. It doesn't mean it couldn't be won without them.
What a noble and selfless sentiment! I'm willing to bet you're not a tremendous fan of health care of state sponsored post secondary education either.
I am against any state sponsered health care. I am against state sponsered post secondary education. I am against money going through beaucratic channels to be divied up as they see fit. If a real busness ran the way any government runs one, they would fall apart in a few years. The governments just take more money to prop up a bad busines. Price controls drive up costs. Then people cry that the government should do more. They put in more price controls. More price increases. When it gets high enough the government steps in and rations what people get. Hello managed health care. No thank you. Education is another topic altogether, but price controls will run anything into the ground.
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If I were talking about you guys my comment would have been different.
Not the only terrorist surely, but the one who is, at least according to the white house, responsible for the deaths of nearly 4000 Americans and Africans through terrorism. He is supposedly the catalyst for the "War on terror", so you'd think he'd have top priority.
The fact that he's still alive has probalby not done much to discourage would be terrorists.
I'd say the same for Arafat too.
Did I ever say that only the French fought in the war of independence? Of course not, what I stated was that they won the war for the colonists. Which they did, without the help of France, the US would likely be a colony to this day.
Thats the same poor logic used when any American says "And you'd all be speaking German now." or "Canada was founded by the losers of the revolutionary war." Its taking a fact and reaching an unsubstantiated conclusion. Winning the war with the French was easier then without them. It doesn't mean it couldn't be won without them.
What a noble and selfless sentiment! I'm willing to bet you're not a tremendous fan of health care of state sponsored post secondary education either.
I am against any state sponsered health care. I am against state sponsered post secondary education. I am against money going through beaucratic channels to be divied up as they see fit. If a real busness ran the way any government runs one, they would fall apart in a few years. The governments just take more money to prop up a bad busines. Price controls drive up costs. Then people cry that the government should do more. They put in more price controls. More price increases. When it gets high enough the government steps in and rations what people get. Hello managed health care. No thank you. Education is another topic altogether, but price controls will run anything into the ground.
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Flatrater
08-08-2004, 07:58 PM
So you don't see any difference between a guy who works a minimum wage job giving money to a charity, and someone who makes $100K a year giving slightly more money to that charity? Who's contribution holds more virtue, the one who can easily afford it, or the guy who's just scraping by, who still gives his last buck to help someone else? The massive difference of what the US can give, compared to what the US does give is pretty apparent when you compare the US to a country like France or Canada.
No I see no difference. We are all given the same opportuniy in life what one chooses to do with it is his problem. Sounds to me like someone nees to apply themselves to better themseleves and quit looking for handouts saying poor me!
$11.5 billion is a lot of money to be sure, but the US could easily give more. So far, Bush has spent $130 billion in Iraq. That's in one year, and he has spent more than ten years foreign aid. Where is that money going to come from? Why are you not bitching about spending so much on that war, which you idealistically support, while you gripe and moan about contributions to some of the least able countries in the world? That's a vicious double standard.
Since you brought it up instead of 11.5 billion since you corrected me it should be at 145.5 billion. You state we spent 130 billion in Iraq but how much money has this war produced for the world? I bet its well over 130 billion. Not just the US has made money from the war.
I hear the old right wing rhetoric of social politics again, applied to global economics. Sometimes, things are not as cut and dried as they seem. In Africa, climate change is devastating many countries, as famine has, disease has, colonial occupation, etc. They need our help, because they CAN'T help themselves and magically create economies out of sand and dust.
I perfer to be the right wing instead of the wrong wing! Is that the problem going on in Sudan right now. What nation on this planet is the biggest producer of diamonds, gold and so on and so on. SOme governments are corrupt and hordeing the money then crying poor mouth.
I saw some numbers for Afghanistan alone, which I would not even want to touch with a ten foot pole if I were you. Afghanistan was bombed and invaded by the US, remember? There is a slight obligation involved there.
"Years of civil war, compounded by Taliban rule and the worst drought in memory, have devastated Afghanistan. At the time that the Taliban was forced out of power, half of Afghanistan's people lived in absolute poverty and were unemployed. Virtually all of the country's institutions and much of its infrastructure were destroyed." That was even before we invaded Afghanistan. Now earlier in your post you mentioned some countries had cases of famine and disease and now you are knocking the US for helping out. You can't have it both ways.
I agree, but unfortunately a succession of corporation friendly prime ministers have done everything in their power to bring Canada economically closer to the US, and now Canada is hooped.
Who's fault is that can't blame Bush now.
Sigh... Obviously not every country can contribute as much as the RICHEST country in the world can. How about this, everyone contributes a flat percentage of their budget, how about the same that France or Germany contributes? That would be fair, now wouldn't it?
I agree Kuiwait, Saudia Arabia should give more money. Add Omar and the rest of the oil producing natoins. Sure the US makes a lot of money but we also have the most needs, we have more people to feed, clothe and shelter.
The rest of the world contributes considerably more than the US does even when they can't afford nearly as much, so get off your high horse.
Got proof on this statment? The US is the biggest donor to aid programs in the world.
If you are so gravely concerned about domestic issues and the funds necessary for them, perhaps you should see this link.
http://costofwar.com/
Amusing!
And your point is? Exactly, you don't have one, you're just spewing more of the sort of claptrap this article imbues.
As long as I state the opposite of you you will call it claptrap, yet your drool is totaly acceptable. Isn't that a double standard.
Foreign dollars and inflated numbers drive the US economy. The national debt is unsustainable, the employment rate is abysmal, professionals, tradesmen, and scientists are out of work, while the "new jobs" are all part time two shift a week mcjobs. Democracy doesn't drive the economy, greed does.
The economy works in cycles but right now umeployment is the lowest it been in years. The national debt has nothing to do with unemployment. In my area we have new office jobs,new factory jobs. Hard work, smart business drives the economy.
That's pretty much what I figured. After all, why should everyone get the chance to do what they want for a living? Fuck the poor, only the well off should have the priviledge of post secondary education.
Yes I agree fuck the poor! FYI I grew up as one of the poor. My hard work made me what I am today. I worked 40 hours a week while in school, worked my ass off and still do. I went to a private college and paid the bill myself with no help. So don't spout off that hogwash. The poor stay poor because they want to, because they don't want to get off their lazy ass and make something of themselves. The US is an amazing place you can be whatever you want to be only if you try.
No I see no difference. We are all given the same opportuniy in life what one chooses to do with it is his problem. Sounds to me like someone nees to apply themselves to better themseleves and quit looking for handouts saying poor me!
$11.5 billion is a lot of money to be sure, but the US could easily give more. So far, Bush has spent $130 billion in Iraq. That's in one year, and he has spent more than ten years foreign aid. Where is that money going to come from? Why are you not bitching about spending so much on that war, which you idealistically support, while you gripe and moan about contributions to some of the least able countries in the world? That's a vicious double standard.
Since you brought it up instead of 11.5 billion since you corrected me it should be at 145.5 billion. You state we spent 130 billion in Iraq but how much money has this war produced for the world? I bet its well over 130 billion. Not just the US has made money from the war.
I hear the old right wing rhetoric of social politics again, applied to global economics. Sometimes, things are not as cut and dried as they seem. In Africa, climate change is devastating many countries, as famine has, disease has, colonial occupation, etc. They need our help, because they CAN'T help themselves and magically create economies out of sand and dust.
I perfer to be the right wing instead of the wrong wing! Is that the problem going on in Sudan right now. What nation on this planet is the biggest producer of diamonds, gold and so on and so on. SOme governments are corrupt and hordeing the money then crying poor mouth.
I saw some numbers for Afghanistan alone, which I would not even want to touch with a ten foot pole if I were you. Afghanistan was bombed and invaded by the US, remember? There is a slight obligation involved there.
"Years of civil war, compounded by Taliban rule and the worst drought in memory, have devastated Afghanistan. At the time that the Taliban was forced out of power, half of Afghanistan's people lived in absolute poverty and were unemployed. Virtually all of the country's institutions and much of its infrastructure were destroyed." That was even before we invaded Afghanistan. Now earlier in your post you mentioned some countries had cases of famine and disease and now you are knocking the US for helping out. You can't have it both ways.
I agree, but unfortunately a succession of corporation friendly prime ministers have done everything in their power to bring Canada economically closer to the US, and now Canada is hooped.
Who's fault is that can't blame Bush now.
Sigh... Obviously not every country can contribute as much as the RICHEST country in the world can. How about this, everyone contributes a flat percentage of their budget, how about the same that France or Germany contributes? That would be fair, now wouldn't it?
I agree Kuiwait, Saudia Arabia should give more money. Add Omar and the rest of the oil producing natoins. Sure the US makes a lot of money but we also have the most needs, we have more people to feed, clothe and shelter.
The rest of the world contributes considerably more than the US does even when they can't afford nearly as much, so get off your high horse.
Got proof on this statment? The US is the biggest donor to aid programs in the world.
If you are so gravely concerned about domestic issues and the funds necessary for them, perhaps you should see this link.
http://costofwar.com/
Amusing!
And your point is? Exactly, you don't have one, you're just spewing more of the sort of claptrap this article imbues.
As long as I state the opposite of you you will call it claptrap, yet your drool is totaly acceptable. Isn't that a double standard.
Foreign dollars and inflated numbers drive the US economy. The national debt is unsustainable, the employment rate is abysmal, professionals, tradesmen, and scientists are out of work, while the "new jobs" are all part time two shift a week mcjobs. Democracy doesn't drive the economy, greed does.
The economy works in cycles but right now umeployment is the lowest it been in years. The national debt has nothing to do with unemployment. In my area we have new office jobs,new factory jobs. Hard work, smart business drives the economy.
That's pretty much what I figured. After all, why should everyone get the chance to do what they want for a living? Fuck the poor, only the well off should have the priviledge of post secondary education.
Yes I agree fuck the poor! FYI I grew up as one of the poor. My hard work made me what I am today. I worked 40 hours a week while in school, worked my ass off and still do. I went to a private college and paid the bill myself with no help. So don't spout off that hogwash. The poor stay poor because they want to, because they don't want to get off their lazy ass and make something of themselves. The US is an amazing place you can be whatever you want to be only if you try.
MagicRat
08-08-2004, 07:58 PM
I am against any state sponsered health care. I am against state sponsered post secondary education..
ANY kind of state sponsorship?
This issue is not quite so simple. State sponsored health care and post secondary education benefits society as a whole as well as the individual. Therefore society should pay a reasonable portion of it.
Education: More and better educated people produces a more competitive, productive and effieicient work force. That nations economy is more competitive and is able to compete better in a global economy. This means more money, more jobs, more prosperity - and more tax dollars to help pay for that post secondary education.
There are many nations around the world whose primary resource is the education and skill of their workforce. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan come to mind. They have few natural resources but very prosporous economies, in part due to the efforts of the state to educate the workforce.
Finally, better educated people are less likely to turn to a life of crime, since more economic options are available to them. As your country has a significantly higher crime rate per capita than any other industrialised nation, perhaps this is something that more Americans should consider.
Health: Well, you must be healthy and have insurance or you would not feel this way.
What would you do if you lost your health insurance, and had a dabilitaing and expensive disease. Would you sell your house? Okay, after your house is gone, your savings are gone, yopur relatives are not able to lend/give you money, what would you do. Die homeless in the street.
This is not far fetched. Millions of Americans have no health insurance, and are just one big medical bill away from being destitute.
Society suffers too, if millions cannot get decent medical care. Parts of the workforce die prematurely or cannot work due to disability. People sell homes and businesses to pay the medical bills, and end up being welfare cases. Or they die and their workforce skills are lost to society forever.
Since the state benefits, the state should pay, not necessarily all the bills but a reasonable portion.
I am against money going through beaucratic channels to be divied up as they see fit..
This is what we elect governments to do. The alternative is no government at all; total anarchy.
If a real busness ran the way any government runs one, they would fall apart in a few years. The governments just take more money to prop up a bad busines. Price controls drive up costs. Then people cry that the government should do more. They put in more price controls. More price increases. When it gets high enough the government steps in and rations what people get. Hello managed health care. No thank you. Education is another topic altogether, but price controls will run anything into the ground.
I agree with you to a certain extent. However, just because there is possibility for future abuse of government policies does not mean those policies should be excluded altogether.
It is flawed to assume a government will take a policy to extremes. Virtually all reasonable, democratic governments recognise reasonable limits in their policies.
If they exceed these limits (by, say, a wasteful expensive invasion of another soverign nation) they will not be re-elected.
ANY kind of state sponsorship?
This issue is not quite so simple. State sponsored health care and post secondary education benefits society as a whole as well as the individual. Therefore society should pay a reasonable portion of it.
Education: More and better educated people produces a more competitive, productive and effieicient work force. That nations economy is more competitive and is able to compete better in a global economy. This means more money, more jobs, more prosperity - and more tax dollars to help pay for that post secondary education.
There are many nations around the world whose primary resource is the education and skill of their workforce. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan come to mind. They have few natural resources but very prosporous economies, in part due to the efforts of the state to educate the workforce.
Finally, better educated people are less likely to turn to a life of crime, since more economic options are available to them. As your country has a significantly higher crime rate per capita than any other industrialised nation, perhaps this is something that more Americans should consider.
Health: Well, you must be healthy and have insurance or you would not feel this way.
What would you do if you lost your health insurance, and had a dabilitaing and expensive disease. Would you sell your house? Okay, after your house is gone, your savings are gone, yopur relatives are not able to lend/give you money, what would you do. Die homeless in the street.
This is not far fetched. Millions of Americans have no health insurance, and are just one big medical bill away from being destitute.
Society suffers too, if millions cannot get decent medical care. Parts of the workforce die prematurely or cannot work due to disability. People sell homes and businesses to pay the medical bills, and end up being welfare cases. Or they die and their workforce skills are lost to society forever.
Since the state benefits, the state should pay, not necessarily all the bills but a reasonable portion.
I am against money going through beaucratic channels to be divied up as they see fit..
This is what we elect governments to do. The alternative is no government at all; total anarchy.
If a real busness ran the way any government runs one, they would fall apart in a few years. The governments just take more money to prop up a bad busines. Price controls drive up costs. Then people cry that the government should do more. They put in more price controls. More price increases. When it gets high enough the government steps in and rations what people get. Hello managed health care. No thank you. Education is another topic altogether, but price controls will run anything into the ground.
I agree with you to a certain extent. However, just because there is possibility for future abuse of government policies does not mean those policies should be excluded altogether.
It is flawed to assume a government will take a policy to extremes. Virtually all reasonable, democratic governments recognise reasonable limits in their policies.
If they exceed these limits (by, say, a wasteful expensive invasion of another soverign nation) they will not be re-elected.
MagicRat
08-08-2004, 08:26 PM
The economy works in cycles but right now umeployment is the lowest it been in years. The national debt has nothing to do with unemployment.
I must correct you on this. Any first-year economics student will tell you this statement is wrong.
Here goes:
The national debt goes up when the government spends more money than it takes in.
Often the government increases spending on government programs, hires people and buys goods and services. Doing this increases employment, as more people are required to produce these goods and services.
The US government has been using government spending to influence employment rates since the 1930's. They use spending as a tool to moderate the economic cycles that you mention.
For example: Have you heared of FDR's 'New Deal' from the 1930's? The government realised that government spending, on anything, was their best way to relieve the crushing poverty of the Depression.
The government build and improved the highway system, built the Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate bridge and many other public projects, in part to get people employed, get them money so they could spend it and boost the economy.
Cbass made a reference to the national debt as being 'unsustainable' What he meant (I suspect) was this:
The the national debt needs 'servicing' that is, interest must be paid out on the loans that constitute the national debt, (Treasury bills, Government bonds etc.) The higher the national debt, the more interest to be paid and the lower the government spending available to boost a large portion of job growth.
At present, the economy in the US is doing very well partly because, the government has embarked in the largest rate of public spending increase since WWII.
I must correct you on this. Any first-year economics student will tell you this statement is wrong.
Here goes:
The national debt goes up when the government spends more money than it takes in.
Often the government increases spending on government programs, hires people and buys goods and services. Doing this increases employment, as more people are required to produce these goods and services.
The US government has been using government spending to influence employment rates since the 1930's. They use spending as a tool to moderate the economic cycles that you mention.
For example: Have you heared of FDR's 'New Deal' from the 1930's? The government realised that government spending, on anything, was their best way to relieve the crushing poverty of the Depression.
The government build and improved the highway system, built the Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate bridge and many other public projects, in part to get people employed, get them money so they could spend it and boost the economy.
Cbass made a reference to the national debt as being 'unsustainable' What he meant (I suspect) was this:
The the national debt needs 'servicing' that is, interest must be paid out on the loans that constitute the national debt, (Treasury bills, Government bonds etc.) The higher the national debt, the more interest to be paid and the lower the government spending available to boost a large portion of job growth.
At present, the economy in the US is doing very well partly because, the government has embarked in the largest rate of public spending increase since WWII.
driftu
08-08-2004, 10:36 PM
No I see no difference. We are all given the same opportuniy in life what one chooses to do with it is his problem. Sounds to me like someone nees to apply themselves to better themseleves and quit looking for handouts saying poor me!
sure, we all get the same opportunity. so the kid coming into multi-million dollar family has the same chances as the kid being raised by a single teenage mother.
Since you brought it up instead of 11.5 billion since you corrected me it should be at 145.5 billion. You state we spent 130 billion in Iraq but how much money has this war produced for the world? I bet its well over 130 billion. Not just the US has made money from the war.
right destroy a country and it's people to make it rich. good for you i hope you feel good about it.
I perfer to be the right wing instead of the wrong wing!.
of course if they don't agree with you then it most be wrong.
I agree Kuiwait, Saudia Arabia should give more money. Add Omar and the rest of the oil producing natoins. Sure the US makes a lot of money but we also have the most needs, we have more people to feed, clothe and shelter.
lol, that's funny.
As long as I state the opposite of you you will call it claptrap, yet your drool is totaly acceptable. Isn't that a double standard.
and what is it that you keep spitting out here. seems you aren't hearing his point either.
Yes I agree fuck the poor! FYI I grew up as one of the poor. My hard work made me what I am today. I worked 40 hours a week while in school, worked my ass off and still do. I went to a private college and paid the bill myself with no help. So don't spout off that hogwash. The poor stay poor because they want to, because they don't want to get off their lazy ass and make something of themselves. The US is an amazing place you can be whatever you want to be only if you try.
describe poor? did you go days without food? did you ever have to sleep outside under a brigde or doorways?
i say good for you got educated and a good job. but don't piss on the guys who may never have a chance to do it. times change and as they change things get harder on the lower class. school costs more. jobs are harder to find. rent is higher.
sure, we all get the same opportunity. so the kid coming into multi-million dollar family has the same chances as the kid being raised by a single teenage mother.
Since you brought it up instead of 11.5 billion since you corrected me it should be at 145.5 billion. You state we spent 130 billion in Iraq but how much money has this war produced for the world? I bet its well over 130 billion. Not just the US has made money from the war.
right destroy a country and it's people to make it rich. good for you i hope you feel good about it.
I perfer to be the right wing instead of the wrong wing!.
of course if they don't agree with you then it most be wrong.
I agree Kuiwait, Saudia Arabia should give more money. Add Omar and the rest of the oil producing natoins. Sure the US makes a lot of money but we also have the most needs, we have more people to feed, clothe and shelter.
lol, that's funny.
As long as I state the opposite of you you will call it claptrap, yet your drool is totaly acceptable. Isn't that a double standard.
and what is it that you keep spitting out here. seems you aren't hearing his point either.
Yes I agree fuck the poor! FYI I grew up as one of the poor. My hard work made me what I am today. I worked 40 hours a week while in school, worked my ass off and still do. I went to a private college and paid the bill myself with no help. So don't spout off that hogwash. The poor stay poor because they want to, because they don't want to get off their lazy ass and make something of themselves. The US is an amazing place you can be whatever you want to be only if you try.
describe poor? did you go days without food? did you ever have to sleep outside under a brigde or doorways?
i say good for you got educated and a good job. but don't piss on the guys who may never have a chance to do it. times change and as they change things get harder on the lower class. school costs more. jobs are harder to find. rent is higher.
taranaki
08-08-2004, 11:16 PM
To imply ....... is disengenous and just setting up a straw man so you can take pot shots at it.
.
And that is EXACTLY what this whole article does.It's all complete garbage,false assumptions,what if's and redneck wanking fantasy.But of course,if you see the author's point of view as credible, you wouldn't dream of accusing him of of setting up straw men,would you?:rolleyes:
Shoot the fucker in the face Isay,he's a worthless cunt and the world would be better off without people like him.And before you criticise me again for this attitude,Yogs,you were nowhere to be found on the countless occasions that your fellow right wingers were suggesting far worse against others.
.
And that is EXACTLY what this whole article does.It's all complete garbage,false assumptions,what if's and redneck wanking fantasy.But of course,if you see the author's point of view as credible, you wouldn't dream of accusing him of of setting up straw men,would you?:rolleyes:
Shoot the fucker in the face Isay,he's a worthless cunt and the world would be better off without people like him.And before you criticise me again for this attitude,Yogs,you were nowhere to be found on the countless occasions that your fellow right wingers were suggesting far worse against others.
Popeye2
08-08-2004, 11:53 PM
To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
Hey Flatrater, Thanx ! nicely written !
BTW, we can talk about soccer, as long as it's not in the same sentence as the word "SPORT" JMO !
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.
Hey Flatrater, Thanx ! nicely written !
BTW, we can talk about soccer, as long as it's not in the same sentence as the word "SPORT" JMO !
YogsVR4
08-09-2004, 09:46 AM
ANY kind of state sponsorship?
This issue is not quite so simple. State sponsored health care and post secondary education benefits society as a whole as well as the individual. Therefore society should pay a reasonable portion of it.
Education: More and better educated people produces a more competitive, productive and effieicient work force. That nations economy is more competitive and is able to compete better in a global economy. This means more money, more jobs, more prosperity - and more tax dollars to help pay for that post secondary education.
Why should society pay for it? You obviously know why its needed, and I'm not suggesting that it not be suported. I am saying that the government should not collect taxes for them. It should not dictate the curriculum that they teach. Most people who graduate are generous to their alma matter. Leave more money in their pockets, and you might be surprised at how much more the schools take in.
There are many nations around the world whose primary resource is the education and skill of their workforce. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan come to mind. They have few natural resources but very prosporous economies, in part due to the efforts of the state to educate the workforce.
Its all true. However, you may notice that the US is still far and away the most successful economy in the world.
Finally, better educated people are less likely to turn to a life of crime, since more economic options are available to them. As your country has a significantly higher crime rate per capita than any other industrialised nation, perhaps this is something that more Americans should consider.
You don't get any arguement from me on the importance of an education. The arguement is where the funding comes from. When an organization gets tax revenues, they are also getting some price controls. Price controls drive up costs - all the time.
Health: Well, you must be healthy and have insurance or you would not feel this way.
What would you do if you lost your health insurance, and had a dabilitaing and expensive disease. Would you sell your house? Okay, after your house is gone, your savings are gone, yopur relatives are not able to lend/give you money, what would you do. Die homeless in the street.
This is not far fetched. Millions of Americans have no health insurance, and are just one big medical bill away from being destitute.
There is a big difference between not having health insurance and not receiving health care. Your right that there are millions without insurance - are there millions dieing penniless in the streets? Of course there isn't. Health care is not a right. Its a service. Its one that people should consider very important. So important in fact, that they work hard to either afford it or get a job that provides it.
I do not suffer lazy fools who skip through life so they can suck off those of us who work our asses off. Their choices led them to where they are. I support charity work that helps those that are looking for it, but no handouts to freeloaders.
Society suffers too, if millions cannot get decent medical care. Parts of the workforce die prematurely or cannot work due to disability. People sell homes and businesses to pay the medical bills, and end up being welfare cases. Or they die and their workforce skills are lost to society forever.
Lets see if I can get this old saying right. If, ifs and buts where candy and nuts, it'd be Christmas every day. Playing the what if game can lead to any conclusion you want to make. The reality is that people don't plan or prepare for their own well being. Its not societies job to pick up their slack.
Since the state benefits, the state should pay, not necessarily all the bills but a reasonable portion.
This is what we elect governments to do. The alternative is no government at all; total anarchy.
There is no "reasonable portion". Either you pay for what goods you get or you don't.
I don't suggest that there is no government. Immigration, national defense, justice system, environmental policy are just a few places where its needed. It does not belong in the pocket books of the country though. Things like social security need to go. HUD needs to go. The IRS needs to go (no income taxes - only use taxes).
I agree with you to a certain extent. However, just because there is possibility for future abuse of government policies does not mean those policies should be excluded altogether.
It is flawed to assume a government will take a policy to extremes. Virtually all reasonable, democratic governments recognise reasonable limits in their policies.
If they exceed these limits (by, say, a wasteful expensive invasion of another soverign nation) they will not be re-elected.
Not likely. The way 99% of politicians stay in power is that they promise to spend more money on their constituants. They never say where they're going to get the money but they make the promises. The Big Dig in Boston is 15 BILLION dollars over budget (started at 4 billion so its way the hell over). Why is there no uproar in Boston? Because Kennedy worked an amendment into a bill that he knew that would pass so that the country as a whole picked up the slack. Shit like that happens all the time. Has he been bounced? Obviously not. Unless I move to Massachusetts, there is nothing I can do about it either.
I am not a communisit or socialist. I do not believe its societies responsibility to take care of everyone from the cradle to the grave. I feel its my responsibility to take care of me, my family and anyone else that I feel needs my help. I do not want the government dictating who gets what and how much. I do not want the government taking money from my income - burdening me on the work that I'm doing. The federal, state and local governments take in over 3 TRILLION dollars in tax money right now. I do not think they need another half TRILLION more to ruin health care.
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This issue is not quite so simple. State sponsored health care and post secondary education benefits society as a whole as well as the individual. Therefore society should pay a reasonable portion of it.
Education: More and better educated people produces a more competitive, productive and effieicient work force. That nations economy is more competitive and is able to compete better in a global economy. This means more money, more jobs, more prosperity - and more tax dollars to help pay for that post secondary education.
Why should society pay for it? You obviously know why its needed, and I'm not suggesting that it not be suported. I am saying that the government should not collect taxes for them. It should not dictate the curriculum that they teach. Most people who graduate are generous to their alma matter. Leave more money in their pockets, and you might be surprised at how much more the schools take in.
There are many nations around the world whose primary resource is the education and skill of their workforce. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan come to mind. They have few natural resources but very prosporous economies, in part due to the efforts of the state to educate the workforce.
Its all true. However, you may notice that the US is still far and away the most successful economy in the world.
Finally, better educated people are less likely to turn to a life of crime, since more economic options are available to them. As your country has a significantly higher crime rate per capita than any other industrialised nation, perhaps this is something that more Americans should consider.
You don't get any arguement from me on the importance of an education. The arguement is where the funding comes from. When an organization gets tax revenues, they are also getting some price controls. Price controls drive up costs - all the time.
Health: Well, you must be healthy and have insurance or you would not feel this way.
What would you do if you lost your health insurance, and had a dabilitaing and expensive disease. Would you sell your house? Okay, after your house is gone, your savings are gone, yopur relatives are not able to lend/give you money, what would you do. Die homeless in the street.
This is not far fetched. Millions of Americans have no health insurance, and are just one big medical bill away from being destitute.
There is a big difference between not having health insurance and not receiving health care. Your right that there are millions without insurance - are there millions dieing penniless in the streets? Of course there isn't. Health care is not a right. Its a service. Its one that people should consider very important. So important in fact, that they work hard to either afford it or get a job that provides it.
I do not suffer lazy fools who skip through life so they can suck off those of us who work our asses off. Their choices led them to where they are. I support charity work that helps those that are looking for it, but no handouts to freeloaders.
Society suffers too, if millions cannot get decent medical care. Parts of the workforce die prematurely or cannot work due to disability. People sell homes and businesses to pay the medical bills, and end up being welfare cases. Or they die and their workforce skills are lost to society forever.
Lets see if I can get this old saying right. If, ifs and buts where candy and nuts, it'd be Christmas every day. Playing the what if game can lead to any conclusion you want to make. The reality is that people don't plan or prepare for their own well being. Its not societies job to pick up their slack.
Since the state benefits, the state should pay, not necessarily all the bills but a reasonable portion.
This is what we elect governments to do. The alternative is no government at all; total anarchy.
There is no "reasonable portion". Either you pay for what goods you get or you don't.
I don't suggest that there is no government. Immigration, national defense, justice system, environmental policy are just a few places where its needed. It does not belong in the pocket books of the country though. Things like social security need to go. HUD needs to go. The IRS needs to go (no income taxes - only use taxes).
I agree with you to a certain extent. However, just because there is possibility for future abuse of government policies does not mean those policies should be excluded altogether.
It is flawed to assume a government will take a policy to extremes. Virtually all reasonable, democratic governments recognise reasonable limits in their policies.
If they exceed these limits (by, say, a wasteful expensive invasion of another soverign nation) they will not be re-elected.
Not likely. The way 99% of politicians stay in power is that they promise to spend more money on their constituants. They never say where they're going to get the money but they make the promises. The Big Dig in Boston is 15 BILLION dollars over budget (started at 4 billion so its way the hell over). Why is there no uproar in Boston? Because Kennedy worked an amendment into a bill that he knew that would pass so that the country as a whole picked up the slack. Shit like that happens all the time. Has he been bounced? Obviously not. Unless I move to Massachusetts, there is nothing I can do about it either.
I am not a communisit or socialist. I do not believe its societies responsibility to take care of everyone from the cradle to the grave. I feel its my responsibility to take care of me, my family and anyone else that I feel needs my help. I do not want the government dictating who gets what and how much. I do not want the government taking money from my income - burdening me on the work that I'm doing. The federal, state and local governments take in over 3 TRILLION dollars in tax money right now. I do not think they need another half TRILLION more to ruin health care.
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