Best Bang for Buck, Hands Down

I figured I would do this thread because everytime when someone says a car is fast, someone will come in and bring up a car thats 5000 dollars cheaper and argue that it would be faster with 5000 in mods. So my question is: What do you guys think is hands down the best performance buy, including the cost of the car and the modifications. No consideration of mileage, comfort, or style.

A few rules I thought I would implement in order to keep it "fair"

It has to have 4 wheels, you can get a used Suzuki GSR or other superbike for a few thousand dollars and outrun any ferrari or lambo.

No jet engines or some other wacky thing like that.

Keep it realistic, no taking the drivetrain out of a buick and putting it in a geo (Ive seen this before, but come on, if this is allowed this thread will venture into the realm of fantasy, not possibility)

It has to be street legal. If you cant drive it legally on a public road, theres no point.

For a drag race, I'm honestly gonna have to go with the Fox Body 5.0 Mustang. But the Camaro Z28 is great too.

Srt-4 (for new), 5.0 Mustang or Camaro Z28 (for older)

I think a Ford Festiva with a b6d put in the engine bay would be the best performance buy. You could do all of it for less then 1000 dollars including the perchase of the car, an extra 500 or so and you could turbo charge it. A ford festiva with 130 hp has the same power to weight as a 1999 plus mustang GT, and you could get one up to 150 hp with a 1500 dollar budget, including the price of the car. If you stripped out the interior you could have a car thats deep into the 13s for about 1500 dollars.

5.0 Mustang... very possible. But hands down, price of vehicle AND mods, 93-97 LT1. No question.

I think a Ford Festiva with a b6d put in the engine bay would be the best performance buy. You could do all of it for less then 1000 dollars including the perchase of the car, an extra 500 or so and you could turbo charge it. A ford festiva with 130 hp has the same power to weight as a 1999 plus mustang GT, and you could get one up to 150 hp with a 1500 dollar budget, including the price of the car. If you stripped out the interior you could have a car thats deep into the 13s for about 1500 dollars.

Very true! But...LT1 is there stock. If the cheapest route to 13 sec. car, that is not one, you are right. But past that point...good luck.

Camaro and mustang? Ehh...ok. Look in my sig. VERY cheap to pick up, good, strong, turbo'd engines, not too heavy, aerodynamic, etc. This is kind of a cliche topic though...there are tons of cars that are just as good as another. Also, are you talking about just power potential or what's best for a particular purpose? No one could pick just ONE car that's better than all the others. Z cars are awesome for potential and usually not too expensive to pick up. For the ultimate potential at the sacrifice of cost (over here, anyway...go to japan and the 2JZ and RBs are comparable to mustangs and camaros over here), pick up a 2JZ-GTE, RB26DETT, Grand National, or Corvette...they are definately as good as you can get for bang for the buck potential...no doubt. These could be followed close behind by the VG30s, SR series of engines, V-TEC engines, etc...I've seen civics running 10s ALL MOTOR...it's pretty expensive to get to this point though and that's why the SRs, VGs, and V-TECs aren't up closer to the 2JZs and RBs.

I know I'm gunna get ripped apart for this...but it's aight...bring it.

Hehe, in Japan, they do 'wangan' (top speed runs on un-policed highways) with their turbo Z cars. So they definitely have potential. But I think when it comes to drag racing, the best cars out there are the Mustang GT w/ 5.0 and the Camaro Z28 w/ LT1. For a cheap autocross or track car, I'd go with an older MX-5 Miata or 240SX; great handling right out of the box.

The Z is versatile enough to do all that. I've heard of auto cross Zs as well as 10 second Zs....in fact...read this. (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/kyl93nis30.html) 10 seconds, full interior, auto trans and ~3700 lbs. Zs can do the quarter...know of 3 or 4 11 second Z31Ts and one 8 second Z31T...again, with the full interior...

http://z31.com/racing/8secz.jpg

Granted, they aren't 1/4 mile cars, but Z's are still quite versatile...they can do a lot of things very well without TOO heafty of an investment. If you want a cheap 1/4 car, domestic is probably the way to go if you're on a REALLY tight budget...I saw an old, peesashit ford ranger pickup that someone put a huge engine in that was running 10s (or so I heard, at least)...talk about the ultimate sleeper. A Z will take you much further than a mustang or camaro will if you want to build a real sports car, though....not just a quarter mile queen.

As for the first post's reference to the "$5000 will make mine faster than yours" thing, if I had $5000 to put into my Z31 right now, I pity the fool who comes up to me at a stop light...I don't care WHAT you're in.

im gonna have to go with the LT1 but whenever i see a thread like this i think cosworth for some reason. as for the japanese im sure you could get a super cheap one and keep finding mods for it while keeping the price down and having an insanely fast car, but no LT1 just look at its stats

1g AWD DSM
5.0Mustang(camaro and firebirds too but they arent as light as the stang is)
c4 vette
mk1 mr2
miata
CRX
88 fiero

The Z is versatile enough to do all that. I've heard of auto cross Zs as well as 10 second Zs....in fact...read this. (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/kyl93nis30.html) 10 seconds, full interior, auto trans and ~3700 lbs. Zs can do the quarter...know of 3 or 4 11 second Z31Ts and one 8 second Z31T...again, with the full interior...

Granted, they aren't 1/4 mile cars, but Z's are still quite versatile...they can do a lot of things very well without TOO heafty of an investment. If you want a cheap 1/4 car, domestic is probably the way to go if you're on a REALLY tight budget...I saw an old, peesashit ford ranger pickup that someone put a huge engine in that was running 10s (or so I heard, at least)...talk about the ultimate sleeper. A Z will take you much further than a mustang or camaro will if you want to build a real sports car, though....not just a quarter mile queen.

As for the first post's reference to the "$5000 will make mine faster than yours" thing, if I had $5000 to put into my Z31 right now, I pity the fool who comes up to me at a stop light...I don't care WHAT you're in.

Hmmmm. Such praise. :sly:

Hey, you wouldnt be trying to sell a Z on here would you? :smile:

If I was gonna use a Festiva as a base why not just put a 220HP SHO motor in one like the 50 SHOGUNS that were made?

Also a Z can be made into a 1/4 mile car just as easily as a Mustang/Camaro can be made a road track destroyer.

If I was gonna use a Festiva as a base why not just put a 220HP SHO motor in one like the 50 SHOGUNS that were made?

Also a Z can be made into a 1/4 mile car just as easily as a Mustang/Camaro can be made a road track destroyer.Or a SVT Contour motor ;) , I've heard a festiva with a Zetec swap could hit low 14's, Just think of what a bigger motor could do :o

A Z will take you much further than a mustang or camaro will if you want to build a real sports car.


:confused: :confused: :eek7: :confused: :confused:

I now can say I think your crazy... And I entirely DISagree with you. No way can a 2.8 or 3.0 leader be faster by ANY means due to double the displacement. And handling, anything under 3500 lbs, and a few parts bolted on handles substantialy well. Z, worthy competitor, VERY much so! Terminator of performance, not so... I still put my money on the F-Body. Come on people, throw some more in, I'd love to hear your ideas.

EDIT: NOT focusing this into an "Import - Domestic", thread. Just one sports car platform to another. I just happen to like F-Bodys, and my counter-part...Z's. In fact my favorite Import are Nissan Z's (300zx, 350z). Just trying to obviate this distinction. :smile:

correct me if im wrong but dont the 5.0 foxbodies weigh just abit over 3100pounds?

I always believe it to be 3,000-3,200. Can't imagine it being any more.

man... they just dont make them like they used too... :P

By bang do you mean pure numbers? or is fun a factor?


Becuase if you give me US$5,000 Ill build you a CRX will run 12s down the 1/4 (why you would want do I don't know) but also be a real thrill to drive on a real race track, and run times that would compete with much much more expensive race cars.

You simply can not beat light weight, and an engine that from the factory puts out an easy 100hp/L.

MKIV supra RZ..... the power u could get out of that car for so little money, and the rest of it is so strong.... the 6 speed gearbox can handle over 600hp stock, the engine internals can easy run 500hp stock, (power figures at engine)... but if u upgrade the internals, u could easily get 700hp for a lot less money thatn u think... it is a bit heavy, but it will be very quick anyway and all that weight is because of the cars strength. and with some simple mods u could make a 700hp supra handle decent too. and all considered, supras arent that expensive.... and they have heaps of comfort and everything else. japanese turbo engines will give u the best power return dollar for dollar. easy

No way can a 2.8 or 3.0 leader be faster by ANY means due to double the displacement.

I'm crazy? I wince when I hear that statement. It's SO wrong. A turbo'd engine running 15psi has effectively doubled it's displacement. A good turbo'd engine will ALWAYS have the upperhand on a normally aspirated engine. Read this (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=244431), then come talk to me. You'll never want anything but a turbo'd car again.

Hey, you wouldnt be trying to sell a Z on here would you?

No.

Also a Z can be made into a 1/4 mile car just as easily as a Mustang/Camaro can be made a road track destroyer.

How I'd love to see that. I've never seen either of those do anything all that impressive when turning or stopping were involved without boat loads of money being spent.

Turbo Power!!!

I'm crazy? I wince when I hear that statement. It's SO wrong. A turbo'd engine running 15psi has effectively doubled it's displacement. A good turbo'd engine will ALWAYS have the upperhand on a normally aspirated engine. Read this (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=244431), then come talk to me. You'll never want anything but a turbo'd car again.

Okay, but what's the point of using forced induction to emulate twice the displacement when you can just use twice the displacement? You'll get a smoother power curve, put less stress on the engine, and probably get better mileage.

How I'd love to see that. I've never seen either of those do anything all that impressive when turning or stopping were involved without boat loads of money being spent.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you. Every autocross event I go to, I see 5.0's and Z28's with just light mods leading the way.

I'm crazy? I wince when I hear that statement. It's SO wrong. A turbo'd engine running 15psi has effectively doubled it's displacement. A good turbo'd engine will ALWAYS have the upperhand on a normally aspirated engine. Read this (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=244431), then come talk to me. You'll never want anything but a turbo'd car again.


Oh my ricer ricer friend how retarded you prove yaself once again. Simple question if engine is 3.0L and running at 15psi of boost and another engine is 7.0L(427) running 15psi which will make more HP?

The botom line is there is no replacement for displacement you can turbo a 7.0L motor just like you can turbo a 3.0L motor. That was what he was talking about.




How I'd love to see that. I've never seen either of those do anything all that impressive when turning or stopping were involved without boat loads of money being spent.


Next why don't you see Maxium Motorsports or Griggs Racing who wit bolt ons make Mustangs(1+G in skidpad) that out handle Ferrari's? Once agian learn something before you speak about it.

:bananadie :owned:

:bananadie HEHE... :smokin: I wanted to do it too! And about the whole turbo -- double displacement... in your theory 3.0 x 2 = 6.0 -- 5.7 x 2 = 11.4 -- 5.0 x 2 = 10.0 ..... I think you understand where this is going.

Turbo Power!!!
:gay: :greddy2: :gay:

for example, here where i live, theres a shop that will take ur MKIV supra to 530hp for less than $US 7000 including labor... and capable of 11's..., stuff is probably cheaper in US, and if u do it urself u could easily have this for $5000.

I love the Supra TT, but it's so damn expensive. I could get a used SVT Cobra for a lot less and make it a lot faster :o

A large displacement engine will almost always provide more performance for the money then a smaller displacement engine. I figured this trend would produce itself when I started this thread. Frankly I dont see how you could call a SR20 or Vtec swap a performance bargain. You would have to invest 2-4 thousand dollars for a good condition engine, and even though your car would have impressive performance, but still not up to par with most stock v8's.

You would have to invest 2-4 thousand dollars for a good condition engine, and even though your car would have impressive performance, but still not up to par with most stock v8's.


Really?

I could go out tomorrow and buy a car with a DOHC VTEC engine, or Turbo SR20DET already in it, factory fitted, for your 2-4 grand. And it would run 14s (again why?) and be extremly fast on the road, fast enough that it would easily out run most stock V8s.
To buy a fast V8 here would cost me a lot of money, there are some well build older Fords and Holdens at bargin prices, but when you have to put gas in them and replace the tires they suddenly lose the "buck" part of the equation, and while cheap to buy, are not cheap to run.



To much of what is being discussed in this thread is relevent to only certian parts of the world, unforunatly this is a global forum, and whats cheap in the US, Europe or Japan might not be else where.

If you want to talk about true bang for your buck then you need to look at cars that were sold globaly.
That means cars like the Toyota Corrola, Mazda 323/Ford Lazer/Escort, Honda Civic/CRX/Integra Holden Comodore/Opel Omega/Chevy whatever etc etc.

All are cars that are avliable in some form almost anywhere in the world, and all have some sort of high performance version avliable with fast parts that can be swapped for minimal cost into the lesser versions.



And it dosn't matter how much hp you can make out of a V8, the laws of physics mean it will generaly be more than an equivlant 4cyl, but it will nearly always be more expensive. There are more parts to replace, and often more work that needs doing.

True bang for your buck cars are generaly small light weight and 4cyl.
Cars like a Lotus 7 replica, or classic RWD Japanese cars like the old Toyota Corrolas or Mazdas, or Honda's of the late 80s early 90s.
Also British cars like the entire European Ford Escort range, from the first RWD Mk1, to the last FWD RS based losely on the Mazda 323.

Really?

I could go out tomorrow and buy a car with a DOHC VTEC engine, or Turbo SR20DET already in it, factory fitted, for your 2-4 grand. And it would run 14s (again why?) and be extremly fast on the road, fast enough that it would easily out run most stock V8s.
To buy a fast V8 here would cost me a lot of money, there are some well build older Fords and Holdens at bargin prices, but when you have to put gas in them and replace the tires they suddenly lose the "buck" part of the equation, and while cheap to buy, are not cheap to run.



To much of what is being discussed in this thread is relevent to only certian parts of the world, unforunatly this is a global forum, and whats cheap in the US, Europe or Japan might not be else where.

If you want to talk about true bang for your buck then you need to look at cars that were sold globaly.
That means cars like the Toyota Corrola, Mazda 323/Ford Lazer/Escort, Honda Civic/CRX/Integra Holden Comodore/Opel Omega/Chevy whatever etc etc.

All are cars that are avliable in some form almost anywhere in the world, and all have some sort of high performance version avliable with fast parts that can be swapped for minimal cost into the lesser versions.



And it dosn't matter how much hp you can make out of a V8, the laws of physics mean it will generaly be more than an equivlant 4cyl, but it will nearly always be more expensive. There are more parts to replace, and often more work that needs doing.

True bang for your buck cars are generaly small light weight and 4cyl.
Cars like a Lotus 7 replica, or classic RWD Japanese cars like the old Toyota Corrolas or Mazdas, or Honda's of the late 80s early 90s.
Also British cars like the entire European Ford Escort range, from the first RWD Mk1, to the last FWD RS based losely on the Mazda 323.
Umm....Didn't the Mk1 (and the Mk2 for that matter) Escort pre-date the 1st 323? Hold that thought, after a check, I found that they both did.
So if there is any common relationship between the two cars, then the 323 is based loosely on the Escort:)

Just a little correction ;)

I think a Ford Festiva with a b6d put in the engine bay would be the best performance buy. You could do all of it for less then 1000 dollars including the perchase of the car, an extra 500 or so and you could turbo charge it. A ford festiva with 130 hp has the same power to weight as a 1999 plus mustang GT, and you could get one up to 150 hp with a 1500 dollar budget, including the price of the car. If you stripped out the interior you could have a car thats deep into the 13s for about 1500 dollars.

lol that would be so damn funny seing one of the ugliest cars in the world (Festiva) beating a car like a Mustang GT. But I wouldn't be caught dead driving around in a Festive I don't car how fast it is lol. But I guess the thread started mentioned nothing matters but all out performance so it is infact very cheap with that engine swap to go fast. How bout a tubbed out gremlin with a big block in it! lol that would haul ass.

I could go out tomorrow and buy a car with a DOHC VTEC engine...factory fitted, for your 2-4 grand. And it would run 14s and be extremly fast on the road, fast enough that it would easily out run most stock V8s.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :grinno: :grinno:


That means cars like the Toyota Corrola, Mazda 323/Ford Lazer/Escort, Honda Civic/CRX/Integra Holden Comodore/Opel Omega/Chevy whatever etc etc.

:confused: ... I don't think these compare on the same level as the other cars spoken...even though their more plentiful doesn't mean that they would be a formitable challenge.


And it dosn't matter how much hp you can make out of a V8, the laws of physics mean it will generaly be more than an equivlant 4cyl, but it will nearly always be more expensive. There are more parts to replace, and often more work that needs doing.

Everyone I know all say it's more expensive to squeeze every last small incriment of hp out of a smaller displacement engine, rather than freeing up a large gain hidden in a much larger engine. I think the Z previously talked about would hold it's own MUCH better than those cars.

And it dosn't matter how much hp you can make out of a V8, the laws of physics mean it will generaly be more than an equivlant 4cyl, but it will nearly always be more expensive. There are more parts to replace, and often more work that needs doing.


I would diagree with this statement in the U.S. because for example a sey of JE pistons for a V8 will cost the same or less than for like a 4-cylinder Honda even though the V8 requires 4 more slugs. This is just one example but there are many many more where the V8 stuff is cheaper ie., rods, cranks, heads.

But in England as I found out from Skyline, SBF(302) parts are a lot harder to come by with more limited choice and costong more $$$ than here in the U.S. So some of this depends on where you live.

Mustang parts are cheap as hell here in America, cheaper than parts for any Honda or Toyota. :)

i gotta agree with the statement above... Mustangs have a large base of aftemarket parts and are cheap as hell... Good none the less

Umm....Didn't the Mk1 (and the Mk2 for that matter) Escort pre-date the 1st 323? Hold that thought, after a check, I found that they both did.
So if there is any common relationship between the two cars, then the 323 is based loosely on the Escort:)

Just a little correction ;)


I think you must have translated it into Italian, then back into English.

What I said was from the first RWD Mk1, to the last FWD RS based losely on the Mazda 323.

The statenment clearly seperates the early MK1 and MK2 into RWD models, and the later MK3 into a FWD model, which shared the same platform as the Mazda 323/Ford Lazer.
Ford had no interest in Mazda during the MK1 and MK2s life cycles, but had taken a strong interest just before the MK3 was released.




As for the "American V8 rules all crowd" your welcome to your opinion, but try thinking outside the bourders you live in.

Heres a Mustang for sale here in NZ: http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=306372&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27FORD%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27MUS TANG%27%2C+%40StateCode%3D%27New+Zealand%27%2C+%40 OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=3&PageNo=1&chkRows=500


Its the only car I could find with a price, the other two were POA (i.e. more than they are worth).


And heres a Twin Turbo Supra for a fraction of the cost: http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=356251&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27TOYOTA%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27S UPRA%27%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=13&PageNo=1&chkRows=500


Hmmm, let me see, what car do you think has the most bang for your buck.

One is a NZ$67,000 V6 low costs sports coupe based on an ageing Ford Falcon platform, and the other is a Tiwn Turbo 6 making more hp in a more modern design for only NZ$15,000.
Assuming I could afford either car, then the Supra (faster out of the box to begin with) would leave me with over NZ$50,000 to invest in making it faster.


Or, since were talking about large amounts of money how about a GTR Skyline, http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=346697&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27NISSAN%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27S KYLINE%27%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=114&PageNo=1&chkRows=500

With NZ$20,000 worth of mods it would easily be reaching into the 11s, probobly the 10s not to mention its ablity to dance around a race track.


How about we go for the "buck" angle, say a price limit of NZ$10,000.


Hmmm, Ok this is a rebuilt show car, but 12sec's for 10grand isnt bad: http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=325783&Criteria=%40PriceFrom%3D0001+%2C+%40PriceTo%3D1000 0+%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=500&PageNo=1&chkRows=500


How about a WRX: http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=360661&Criteria=%40PriceFrom%3D0001+%2C+%40PriceTo%3D1000 0+%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=500&PageNo=1&chkRows=500

An equivlant year, but MUCH slower Ford V8: http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=300378&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27FORD%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27XR8 %27%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=8&PageNo=1&chkRows=500
But, its also NZ$6,000 over budget.


Infact, you won't find a newish V8 Ford for under NZ$10,000, unless you want a basket case car in need of a rebuild.


So how about a V8 Holden, well heres a 92 Clubsport: http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=344737&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27HOLDEN%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27H SV%27%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=12&PageNo=1&chkRows=500

Only its 18grand, and still slower than the 10grand WRX.

A 2002 Monaro will out run the WRX, but then it costs 8 times as much: http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=299250&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27HOLDEN%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27H SV%27%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=12&PageNo=1&chkRows=500


Shit, I can buy a V8 BMW for the cost of a cheap Holden: http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=303792&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27BMW%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27540% 27%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=23&PageNo=1&chkRows=500

or
http://www.autopoint.co.nz/marketplace/UsedCarDetail.asp?ID=356259&Criteria=%40Make%3D%27BMW%27%2C+%40Model%3D%27540i %27%2C+%40OrderBy%3D%27P2%27&NoOfRecs=19&PageNo=1&chkRows=500





And Note, that everything above is dealer prices.
i.e. a little on the high side.

The simple fact is that in a lot of places in the world (i.e everywhere thats not the US) you can buy a 4 or 6 cyl car and have it running faster than most V8s for the cost of the V8.
Yes a V8 will in the end generaly go faster, but when its bang for your buck they really can't compete.

As for the "American V8 rules all crowd" your welcome to your opinion, but try thinking outside the bourders you live in.

I hope you haven't put me in that crowd, since I buy Japanese imports only. I'm just open-minded enough to accept the fact that a V8 muscle car is the most appropriate vehicle to build a drag racer out of.

that a V8 muscle car is the most appropriate vehicle to build a drag racer out of.


I couldn't agree more.
Only this isnt a thread about what makes the best drag racer.

Its about the best "bang for your buck".

And when it comes down to it I don't think most V8s offer that great a bang for your buck. They are generaly more exensive to buy and more expensive to modifiy, especialy when compared with a lot of performance 4 and 6 cyl cars avliable from Europe (including the UK) and Japan.
The only real exception to this is the US, where a variety of factors including culture, industry practices and trading laws mean that performance V8s are disproportionaly cheaper.

A large displacement engine will almost always provide more performance for the money then a smaller displacement engine.
no, it may make more power, but that doesn't always translate into better performance.
look at this article (http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0205scc_coblot/)

that elise is powered by a bone stock type r integra engine(1.8L). however it obliterates the 5.4L S/C Mustang Cobra R in every possible aspect. 1/4 mile, braking, 0-60, slalom speed, lateral grip. not bad for a 190 hp engine when compared to one with 385 horses. that cobra has 3 times the displacement of the 1.8L elise and it still got whooped. not only does the cobra have the advantage of displacement, it's got forced induction too and it still got whooped by a little N/A 1.8L 4 banger. there are replacements for displacement; forced induction, nitrous oxide and/or weight reduction are 3 ways to get significant increases in performance without increasing the displacement. it's all about the application. if you wanna get the most power though, i will give it to you that displacement is the best way to accomplish that, but when comparing two different cars thecar with more displacement doesn't always turn out the fastest. i've been in my friends GSR powered civic coupe and put it on some GT stangs.

i reckon weight reduction is the best way to improve a cars performance: better acceleration, braking, cornering, handling everything. and as far as stripping interiors and stuff, its free.

I think you must have translated it into Italian, then back into English.

What I said was

The statenment clearly seperates the early MK1 and MK2 into RWD models, and the later MK3 into a FWD model, which shared the same platform as the Mazda 323/Ford Lazer.
Ford had no interest in Mazda during the MK1 and MK2s life cycles, but had taken a strong interest just before the MK3 was released.




As for the "American V8 rules all crowd" your welcome to your opinion, but try thinking outside the bourders you live in.
Oh.....I see, carry on- My feeble hung over brain wasn't ready for punctuation clearly. :p


Anyway, I think the car offering best bang for buck out of any is a Lotus 7 replica, I mean it's light, there's all sorts of engines you can put in one and the handling is amazing if you build it properly.

Though over here, a Lancia Delta HF Turbo is pretty good BFYB, as is a FIAT Uno Turbo, Citroen Saxo VTS, BMW E30 325i and Peugeot 205 GTi. However we don't have an open market of hotted Japanese cars, which is where the best Bang for buck really is, with cars like the SW20 MR2 GTS, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III, R32 Nissan Skyline GTR, Subaru Impreza STi etc.

And when it comes down to it I don't think most V8s offer that great a bang for your buck. They are generaly more exensive to buy and more expensive to modifiy, especialy when compared with a lot of performance 4 and 6 cyl cars avliable from Europe (including the UK) and Japan.

That's the thing, it depends where you live. If I lived in Japan, I'd say that a used Supra RZ or STi is the best bang-for-buck. But since I live in America, it's hard to top the Mustang 5.0 and Camaro Z28.

Man you guys are nuts. Best bang for your buck (HP compared to dollars) is a Turbo Buick. You can't beat it for the power and modification potential. to get a GN in the low 12's all you need is slicks 15 dollar boost controller and alcohol injection. For less than 1,000 bucks, you have a car that is knocking on the 11'sec door. Not only that but it would still be fully streetable. AC, power doors/locks nice sound system. You honestly can't beat it.

^^^ But DAMN it is U G L Y ... lol plus we dont have them here where i live... dont just assume that every1 lives in US... i know u guys find it hard 2 believe, but there are other people in the world apart from america and canada

Man you guys are nuts. Best bang for your buck (HP compared to dollars) is a Turbo Buick. You can't beat it for the power and modification potential. to get a GN in the low 12's all you need is slicks 15 dollar boost controller and alcohol injection. For less than 1,000 bucks, you have a car that is knocking on the 11'sec door. Not only that but it would still be fully streetable. AC, power doors/locks nice sound system. You honestly can't beat it.
a freind of mine just finished restoring an 84 GN. it's got a cadillac 4.1L V6 bored .20 over to a 4.3. turbo and intercooled. i'll get pics. it's absolutely beautiful and the whole back end of the car whips out to the left once full boost is attained. i would agree that regal t types/GN's are on the top ten list of bang for your buck vehicles.

whats cheap in the US, Europe or Japan might not be else where.

And this is why I wish I was in Japan. I like the cars there much better.

Not trying to pick a fight but I've noticed that regardless of where it is or what its about any "V-8 vs Everything else" discussion seems to always get centered on 1/4s and max power stats by the V-8 guys. True go with what your strengths are but this approach also ties in with the statements along the lines of "America is about the only place in the world V-8s are cheap". Anyway, that said, I have to say that once you get to the point of changing out pistons and connecting rods and adding roll cages you've no longer have whatever car you started out with and now have a project. Money can make anything fast, how much is spent and on what is subjective. Do the chassis and suspension upgrades that V-8s need to equal a light 4 bangers handling equal the power upgrades needed for the smaller car to keep up with the larger engine? This is where people start breaking out magazine comparos, stock spec sheets and aftermarket part serial numbers...this and that will give you X performance and etc and so on...

I guess I can't really add to much to this thread because no one car can be the best in every situation. And any time you take the car beyond daily driving duties and start spending money on it then its a toy, and with toys its whatever floats your boat. A 5.0 Mustang is ridiculously outdated to a Ricer. A engine swapped CRX is a waste of money to a V-8 guy. Anyway, I hope everyones projects go well.

And this is why I wish I was in Japan. I like the cars there much better.

America makes the cars I prefer, but I would not like to live there because my Corvette would not seem as unique in the US as it is in Australia. :biggrin:

And Moppie:
I’m surprised at how cheap those Japanese cars you listed are. :eek7:
Especially that $15,000 TT Supra. In AUS you pay that for a N/A engined MkIV. Supra TT's and Skyline GTR's of similar year can cost between $40-60k.

Why are they so cheap in NZ? :confused:

Man you guys are nuts. Best bang for your buck (HP compared to dollars) is a Turbo Buick. You can't beat it for the power and modification potential. to get a GN in the low 12's all you need is slicks 15 dollar boost controller and alcohol injection. For less than 1,000 bucks, you have a car that is knocking on the 11'sec door. Not only that but it would still be fully streetable. AC, power doors/locks nice sound system. You honestly can't beat it.


My only arguement to this would be I have never seen a decent upkept GN less than $7,000 around here also T-type are $5,000+.

As far as America/Canada vs Europe/Japan etc.., as far as what is available an dprices I can only comment on what I know cause I live here not there. But I definetly understand your point.

Why are they so cheap in NZ? :confused:


A couple of reasons:
We have no import tarifs :D
The cars are generaly of higher milage than whats sold in Aus
There are so damn many of them that the dealers have to run low margins to even get a sale.
And, we probobly pay a more accurate representation of what the cars cost to get out of Japan, where they are even cheaper.

Hey GTStang...the GN is the mack daddy when it comes to the 1/4 mile. If I had to drive a domestic car, that would be the one I'd want. I've seen them run ~9s on street tires. I remember Hypsi from the Grand National forum, as a matter of fact, so he knows his shit when it comes to Grand Nationals (at least).

This is kind of a cliche topic though...there are tons of cars that are just as good as another.

Need I say that I agree with your post, Broke?

America makes the cars I prefer, but I would not like to live there because my Corvette would not seem as unique in the US as it is in Australia.

Sure wouldn't....

My only arguement to this would be I have never seen a decent upkept GN less than $7,000 around here also T-type are $5,000+.

Yep, for $7000 you can easily get a blown and intercooled 5.0 'Stang.

Hey GTStang...the GN is the mack daddy when it comes to the 1/4 mile. If I had to drive a domestic car, that would be the one I'd want. I've seen them run ~9s on street tires. I remember Hypsi from the Grand National forum, as a matter of fact, so he knows his shit when it comes to Grand Nationals (at least).


That's great and all but what does this have to do with anything I posted?

GTSTANG... is ur sig a joke???

It's a joke, and it's one of my favorite sigs on this forum.

mine too

Well, I have a unique view on bang for the buck. I had the choice between a $600 ready to roll CRX and a $450 in need of new steel patches on everything that wasn't a subframe 1970 MGB GT.

I took the MGB without hesitation or regret.

Now, honestly, my little 1800cc OHV four needed that big honkin' Weber carburetor and ANSA header and thinner head gasket to keep pace with that CRX, and a lot of my import friends (and just about all of my muscle car friends) thought I was pretty damn crazy for choosing my Layla for my project.

But no car I could've owned for the money would've put a bigger smile on my face than her. She's a whole different breed of car. When I drive her (which due to one mechanical problem or another, hasn't happened in a year) she just comes alive in my hands. The manual rack & pinion steering, the old friction shocks, the knock-off wire wheels, the carbureted engine and straight cut gears, she's unique and requires a bit more thought and attention to drive than other cars I've slipped behind the wheel of. She loves to be pushed, and rewards spirited driving with a happily slipping tail and plenty of good feedback.

Doubtless, her sisters are like that. Triumphs, Sunbeams, MG's, Austin-Healeys, and even the estranged German, Japanese, and Italian cousins, all have that lively soul to them. No car I've driven built past 1980 has an ounce of the distinct character of behavior that the vintage sports cars do. You want bang for the buck? Seek out a Triumph Spitfire or an MGB or a Fiat X1/9 or Datsun 240Z or Porsche 914 or Saab Sonnet or Opel GT. I guarantee you you'll be out dragged by your neighbor's Taurus sedan, and I guarantee you that you'll be having too much fun to care.