Why do u hate sony??

I'm just wondering why everybody thinks Sony sucks. It is because you bought a sony product that was cheap and u think it sucks or is there a reason why sony isn't any good. Just wondering because i am getting ready to buy a cd player and a pair of speakers. ???????

The sony units dont last long, they dont have good quality, you can get way better for low cost, and they have cheaper parts

The cd player I'm lookin at is a sony and it $200. Can it be that crappy for $200????

yep, it can be that crappy for 200

Sony doesn't even make there car audio do they. Isn't it xploid and crutchfield. One other thing i just wondering , sorry to bother u, but have u seen the pioneer DEH P7500 and the sony CDX F5700, they are almost identical.

The pioneer is made better and I like its features more. xploid? What is that? Crutchfield is a dealer, not a maker. Sony just like most everyone else has their stuff made at a build house. VERY FEW speaker companies make their own stuff.

Xplod!! My bad. And forget that comparison thing i saw the wrong pic. Xplod is stamped on all of sony's car audio products.

Yeah, their new models are called xplods... cause they are likely to explode after playing for a bit. Anyhow i am too tired to continue this, it is 1 AM here. Good night

Xplod is just a name for a line of their products

Scary thing is you are more of a post whore than me

Hey i am trying to get a good CD player, Haibane!!!! I'll probably only be on this site until i get my cd player in about a week. Then u won't hear from me again. But thanks for answers my many questions!!

lol sony products are extremely overrated, quality sucks.. its just a name

yeah! sony xplod is totally s.... Pioneer is pretty good choice

sony sux...the only sony products that i would ever buy would be there tvs, dvd players, and their laptops...and i would rather have a toshiba over any of those so.....use caution, may XPLOD. and yes, pioneer is awesome, ive had a pioneer and a kenwood. been happy with both, my friend is really into sony, like you have no idea, and he still wont buy (any more) car/home audio s...tuff from sony.

hey mx6 which kenwood did you have? because before buying the 860mp i was thinking about the 2nd best (or the best) kenwood becasue the price on ebay was significantly lower than the alpines n stuff.. which one did you get? and how was it?

lol sony products are extremely overrated, quality sucks.. its just a name
exactly and wonderfully said. Since up till the time they started selling car audio, everything they made was quality, so everyone goes hey, its sony and its not 2 expensive lets buy it. I know so many people who have been dissapointed by SONY car audio its not funny. by now everyone knows to stay away from them. most people i know are sticking with pioneer and alpine.

i had the kenwood excelon KDC-X579...ran about $250, it sounded awesome and had great features plus it was an excelon for under 300 bucks. http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productTypeId=20&sortBy=price&productLineId=1&productId=2567
the kenwood was alittle bit harder to use/get used to, and the pioneed seemed to pick up stations better (they are known for that). If i had to choose, i think you got the better one. do you like it?

Sony Xplod Is WAYY Over-Rated

And yes, I OWN a Sony Xplod system so I am QUALIFIED and EDUCATED enough to say this. I've actually bought 2 Sony decks because of the coolness factor of the MP3CD playback (when they were relatively uncommon)...

Round 1... I was running this one to the factory speakers in my Ford Escort so of course I couldn't fault the deck itself. Then my shit got stolen (the thieves didn't TOUCH my factory speakers!).

Round 2... Ashamedly, I buy another Sony deck, Sony 444W Amp and Sony front 5-1/2" speakers (you know, the red plastic cone ones?). Well, let me say that the Ford speakers were NOT the only problem! Not only did the piece of crap Xplod speakers break (near the midrange tweeter, as you could probably guess) but before they went they sounded like absolute crap. At least I had enough sense to buy a Pioneer Sub, but it's currently being fed by the Sony amp until I can afford a new one.

That was my old vehicle... While I've kept (and am still using) the sony deck and amp, if/when they die/get stolen or when I have enough $ to replace them on a whim, I will be disinclined to allow 1 red cent to pass into the coffers of Sony Corporation.

I strongly recommend that those who are shopping for a SERIOUS system take my advice and steer clear of Sony. Their stuff used to be good (at least their NAME is good), but now it is sub-par at best.

Here is another recommendation for the serious sound enthusiast; STAY AWAY FROM WAL-MART when choosing a system! If they happen to have the one you KNOW you want, then fine. But there is no way you can make an educated decision inside that big 'ole cavernous warehouse that is Wally-World. Go to a few sound shops for a real-life demonstration of products that fall within your price range. I would also shop for the best price, but you may even be willing to pay a bit more if you can to a company that gives you good advice... after all, that's how they earn their livelihood!

My next unit will likely be a Pioneer or Kenwood. Perhaps Polk or Infinity speakers? I refuse to simply take people's word for it though... Next time I will INSIST that I hear it myself before shelling out any more clams! One more thing about MP3CD decks... BRING a disc of YOUR music to play in the stereo you are shopping for!

So there it is... I made a mistake, and unlike most people I am willing to admit it. So you Sony fans out there, don't send me hateful words. If you TRULY like your system that is great. But I think that if most Sony owners out there were to set aside their pride for a moment they'd see the light. Don't be so blindly devoted to the Sony nameplate just because it's Sony... It doesn't mean what it used to.

Well, that's my ($229.99 + $239.99 +$59.99 + $149.99 =) $679.96 worth!

LEGO

if you're not into turning your system up loud then sony isn't too bad...

if you're not turning your system up load then save your money because you dont need a system

hey i got xplod head unit and 12" pentagonal sub..and there shit POUNDS!!!!! i havent had ne problems with them yet and ive matched them to many other subs and its pretty good for the price i paid... there not like top of the line but im not trying to be a show stopper ... i think there products are pretty good.. well from waht ive seen.."u guys say poor quality" not trying to start ne thing.. but i havent seen ne one that has had complaints bout sony yet....... but i got pioneer 6x9's 220w... amazing.. hook up some of those man

Hmm... I didn’t say “poor quality”…

“Crappy speakers…" Yes, I did. I haven’t tried the Pentagon sub, so I can’t comment about that one. But I see you have bought Pioneer speaks. Admit it dude, they are…

“Sub-par at best…” Ok, getting warmer!

“Sony… it doesn’t mean what it used to…” Yep, I said that too!


But you've said it much more elequently than I could have...

…(they’re) “not like top of the line but im not trying to be a show stopper”

Hehehe… Relax, dude. I’m not trying to start anything either. I just wish someone had told me before I parted with that hard earned cash that could’ve been better spent.

At least I'm not rattling on talking crap about something I've never even given a chance! I have given Sony AMPLE chances and have been disappointed, that's all.

Peace!

LEGO

if you're not turning your system up load then save your money because you dont need a system


:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

People who have the best systems arent into turning them up loud IMO

People who have the best systems arent into turning them up loud IMO

Man, I love a good debate!!!

Hey, if you don't turn it up at least your shit might not get stolen! Bonus for Sony lovers everywhere!!!

(Yes, I see the irony in that my 1st shit got stolen, which was a Sony deck... But in my defense, they didn't take my CD's which PROVES that those Fudjin' thieves didn't have ANY TASTE!!)

BTW, if you'll notice the name of this forum is "WHY DO U HATE SONY??", not "WHY DO U LOVE SONY AND BUY THEIR PRODUCTS?"

If this topic pisses you off I can understand cuz I used to be just like you. NOBODY wants to be told their shit is really SHIT!! Everyone has to figure this out for themselves. I just hope that all you Sony "Lovers" out there will give a better brand your next wallet full of cash. And like I said before, at least I'm not coming from another perspective... I STILL OWN A SONY SYSTEM!!! SO CUT ME SOME SLACK!!! lol

Man!!!!

We need to get a life... all of us... seriously!!

Man!!!!

We need to get a life... all of us... seriously!!

I have a life, it's sitting in my car right now calling my name, "adam....come play me....you know you want to...."

I have a life, it's sitting in my car right now calling my name, "adam....come play me....you know you want to...."
Yeah, strangely my car says the same thing

Just thought I'd throw my $.02 in...

I agree for the most part that Sony is a few steps behind their competitors when it comes to car audio, but they have definitely come a long way in the past few years. I remember when reliability was the #1 concern when installing their amps or HUs... The M6XX series decks used to have horrible skipping problems, and their amps used to always throw the infamous "overcurrent" light and refuse to come out of protection. We actually pulled apart on of their two-channel amps to see WTF was the deal, and found a bad solder joint on the board. Once we re-soldered it, it worked again for another fews months and eventually failed. The name Xplod was synonymous with bitterness, and often got a few eyeballs rolling at work when it was mentioned out loud.

I still don't think their products are comparable to Pioneer or Alpine, but they have improved quite a bit. I don't think I've seen any problems with this year's lineup thus far, but time will tell... Leave it to Sony to introduce the new cosmetic fad; from the fire engine-red colour scheme to the whole 5-sided ordeal, but honestly, the new P5 mono amps are very stout for the money, and the subs are actually pretty decent when you consider that they're priced comparably with the entry-level Pioneer (TS-W305C, TS-W255C). That, and I haven't seen an amp come back with an over-current light on for some time... Who knows, maybe they'll turn around. :)

Here's some physics for the lamers who think that pentagonal subs produce better sound quality than their appearance.
If you don't believe me then look it up. The pentagon shape of the speakers distorts the sound and that's why they only use it for subs. Thus, they can only blast low range frequencies. In addition, that stops them from going loud, and you end up needing two subs in the place of one.

The pentagon just gives them a cool effect and nothing more. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Here's a comparison between the sony xplod 220W speakers and my 340W KOSS speakers. My speakers aren't show speakers but they' pretty nice. They're 4Way speakers (1 low range cone, 1 midrange speaker, 1 ceramic tweeter and 1 polysomething tweeter). In comparison with my friend's xplod system, my speakers go louder and sound more clear at maximum volume. The only difference is, they run for the same price as the sony's. However, i got mine on sale for $60 :P!

Here's some physics for the lamers who think that pentagonal subs produce better sound quality than their appearance.
If you don't believe me then look it up. The pentagon shape of the speakers distorts the sound and that's why they only use it for subs. Thus, they can only blast low range frequencies. In addition, that stops them from going loud, and you end up needing two subs in the place of one.

There is absolutely no physics in that argument....

Here's some physics for the lamers who think that pentagonal subs produce better sound quality than their appearance.
If you don't believe me then look it up. The pentagon shape of the speakers distorts the sound and that's why they only use it for subs. Thus, they can only blast low range frequencies. In addition, that stops them from going loud, and you end up needing two subs in the place of one.

There is absolutely no physics in that argument....

Sony subs just stink, especially that design, but not as bad as this gay side bar

There is absolutely no physics in that argument....


You're absolutely right, I didn't have time to do the math because I had to repair the AC Blower in my dad's impala.

Here's some math calculations to show what you're paying for. These calculations are based on 12" subs.

SONY XPLOD HEXAGONAL CONE
The cone is composed of 6 triangles. Since the subs are measured from side to side, and not vertex to vertex, each triangle's dimensions would be (Look at the image but it's not accurate, I'm horrible in paint and I didn't install photoshop):
http://fionex.com/subs.jpg
Height: 6"
Base: 6"
Area of triangle = 1/2 (Base * Height)
Area = 1/2 (6 * 6)
Area = 18 square inches

The total area of the cone would be 18 * 6 = 108 square inches

Circular Subs
Radius of a 12" sub is: 6"
Area of circle = Pi * Radius^2
Area = 3.14 * (6^2)
Area = 113" square inches.


CONCLUSION:
5 square inches might not seem alot to you but draw a square of 5" by 5" and tell me that you don't think it's alot. To the company, that's a mere $1 that they save on materials, but they sell you the 12" hex subs for the same price as the 12" circular subs. They end up making alot of money when selling mass quantities. In additon, the hexagonal shape distorts the sound due to interference patterns in waves. I don't know how to draw that in paint so bare with me :P.

OH, just a quick note on SQUARE subs:
They obviously produce the most surface area for the cone, and thus they produce sound waves of higher amplitude. However, my friend says their sound quality isn't too great espicially side by side to a pioneer (for testing purposes only).

My .02 cents... Square subs hit hard and loud not as clear, i own one its my 3rd setup for subs. 1 Kicker is Louder than 2 audiobahns and my old rockfords. Any how i have had sony decks, they sucked ass for the money they want. Only good thing was it was the cheapest deck with subout. My friend had a motorized one, oneday it decided from now on no button will do what is was meant to do. Now every button performs a random thing. Also their amps are so underpowered. I knew not to get their amps, his was goin in overcurrent randomly for no reason. Then we hooked up a 90 watt max 2 ch rockfordamp. I duno its RMNs probably like 45 watts bridged. Well that made his sub hit harder than the sony amp he was pushin. I also listened to their speakers @ bestbuy, and sounded like shit agains same priced pioneers. No one should buy their car stuff, its a waste of money. Spend another buck and get something twice as good.

Here's some physics for the lamers who think that pentagonal subs produce better sound quality than their appearance.
If you don't believe me then look it up. The pentagon shape of the speakers distorts the sound and that's why they only use it for subs. Thus, they can only blast low range frequencies. In addition, that stops them from going loud, and you end up needing two subs in the place of one.

The pentagon just gives them a cool effect and nothing more. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Here's a comparison between the sony xplod 220W speakers and my 340W KOSS speakers. My speakers aren't show speakers but they' pretty nice. They're 4Way speakers (1 low range cone, 1 midrange speaker, 1 ceramic tweeter and 1 polysomething tweeter). In comparison with my friend's xplod system, my speakers go louder and sound more clear at maximum volume. The only difference is, they run for the same price as the sony's. However, i got mine on sale for $60 :P!
:disappoin

You're absolutely right, I didn't have time to do the math because I had to repair the AC Blower in my dad's impala.

Here's some math calculations to show what you're paying for. These calculations are based on 12" subs.

SONY XPLOD HEXAGONAL CONE
The cone is composed of 6 triangles. Since the subs are measured from side to side, and not vertex to vertex, each triangle's dimensions would be (Look at the image but it's not accurate, I'm horrible in paint and I didn't install photoshop):
http://fionex.com/subs.jpg
Height: 6"
Base: 6"
Area of triangle = 1/2 (Base * Height)
Area = 1/2 (6 * 6)
Area = 18 square inches

The total area of the cone would be 18 * 6 = 108 square inches

Circular Subs
Radius of a 12" sub is: 6"
Area of circle = Pi * Radius^2
Area = 3.14 * (6^2)
Area = 113" square inches.


CONCLUSION:
5 square inches might not seem alot to you but draw a square of 5" by 5" and tell me that you don't think it's alot. To the company, that's a mere $1 that they save on materials, but they sell you the 12" hex subs for the same price as the 12" circular subs. They end up making alot of money when selling mass quantities. In additon, the hexagonal shape distorts the sound due to interference patterns in waves. I don't know how to draw that in paint so bare with me :P.

Well first off the P5s are pentagons, not hexagons, but in either case the difference in Sd between either of those and a regular round cone is marginal, at best. It's certainly not audible... Even the L7s with their square cones don't really increase overall Vd by much because of their relatively small Xmax (although they do get hella loud). And if you can elaborate on how the shape of the cone "distorts the sound due to interference patterns in waves," that would be peachy.

Well first off the P5s are pentagons, not hexagons...

INF3RN0666 = :owned:

and 5 square inches Is not 5 inches by 5 inches. That's 25 square inches.

5 square inches =
1x5 inches or
2.236x2.236 inches (approximatly)

dont u love people who think they are experts on things they know nothing about

I just recently got a look at 3 aluminum sonys (dunno if they are custom or what) in the back of an integra and they seriously put space between the old p5s. but then again he had JBL 3 way components in front and back all amped too...

Well first off the P5s are pentagons, not hexagons, but in either case the difference in Sd between either of those and a regular round cone is marginal, at best. It's certainly not audible... Even the L7s with their square cones don't really increase overall Vd by much because of their relatively small Xmax (although they do get hella loud). And if you can elaborate on how the shape of the cone "distorts the sound due to interference patterns in waves," that would be peachy.


yay, someone who knows what's going on!

correct the Sd difference is very small, and they also don't get loud, but that has nothing to do with the fact that they're pentagons. They don't get loud because (like Brandish brought up) they have very small excursion, and they have a very small excursion because they're cheap. The reason they don't sound good also isn't because they're pentagons, it's because they're cheap. They're made cheaply, they're designed cheaply, and they were never built to be a competition SQ sub. Now one can argue that they do have more distortion than normal circular subs because as they move the cone doesn't flex uniformly, so the different spots of the cone give off ever-so-slightly different wave patterns which interfere with each other and mess with your response. Now how audible this is, I really have no idea, but it is a point to consider.

Kickers do get very loud and in many people's opinions they don't sound good, again not necessarily because they're square, just because they were never designed with sound quality in mind. Their total displacement is actually quite high though, they start off with more Sd because of the square cone, and their excursion is very large. Now the linear excursion isn't all that impressive, but who said we were going for linear excursion (we already said they don't sound too good, so why not throw in some more distortion ;)) I'm not sure what the Xmech numbers are on the squares, but I do know it's very high, in the high 20's at least.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/wtf.gif (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&s=#)
why the f?ck are people still interested in sony car audio
f?ck it, if they still wanna buy 'em
they obviously don't know enough
to know that they don't know enough
so f?ck 'em then, they'll learn...

p.s.
excuse my language, but I am a sailor...

Thank you all for trying to prove the point about the subwoofers. I especially liked the Pentagon with 6 sides! :) But thanks dude... you are WAY smarter at math than I am!

Here's an easy way to look at SONY that shouldn't offend anyone...

If you want THE BEST system for YOU, do your homework before spending one cent. Here are some pointers;

1. Be true and HONEST in your research, without any PRECONCIEVED ideas about NAME BRANDS... (to be fair, even disregard negative opinions about SONY. And don't believe HYPE!)

2. Go with what SOUNDS the best to YOUR ears and you will be happy.

3. SAVE your money until you can afford the system you REALLY want! If you buy strictly on PRICE or what you can afford at the time you may be quite disappointed. Don't buy based on emotion! If you like one deck over another (all things being equal) don't settle for the cheaper one if its not the better of the two! You might spend $100.00 trying to save $20.00 (or in my case, $680.00 because I tried to justify my bad decision to buy SONY by buying more Sony components. Now I'm looking to replace 'em all!).

4. REALISTIC DISPLAY MODELS: Don't select your deck or speakers based on the WEAK ass display at Wal-Mart or you may be quite surprised when you install them in your car! (Hint: Wal-Mart is a HUGE Sony pusher! That's where I bought mine! Here's another hint: you shouldn't be able to buy GROCERIES at the same place you buy a quality stereo system!! Man, that may be the best arguement I've made yet!) Go to a REAL audio shop to pick a deck, speakers and amp. Write down the model number of the one you want if you'd like to shop for price later.

5. LEARN from your mistakes! If you are unhappy with your selection, no matter what it is, SELL it on eBay or SOMETHING but don't buy matching components from of the SAME BRAND simply because they'll match (like I did). Often times it's the mix/matched systems that sound best anyways!

6. NO REALLY, LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES! If this still isn't clear, see #5 above. Still have questions? Stick your head in a microwave oven... I'm sure you'd just as well like the sound waves that come out of those! j/k

Ultimately, each of us have to live with our own decisions. At the moment, I own a Sony Xplod deck and amp. :( Frankly, I wish it would Xplod so I'd be forced to install a better system. I guess my ears are really finicky, but I DON'T LIKE SONY.

I will be taking my own advice as soon as I can afford it!

(LEGO is a hypocrite, but he's learned from his mistakes!)

yay, someone who knows what's going on!

correct the Sd difference is very small, and they also don't get loud, but that has nothing to do with the fact that they're pentagons. They don't get loud because (like Brandish brought up) they have very small excursion, and they have a very small excursion because they're cheap. The reason they don't sound good also isn't because they're pentagons, it's because they're cheap. They're made cheaply, they're designed cheaply, and they were never built to be a competition SQ sub. Now one can argue that they do have more distortion than normal circular subs because as they move the cone doesn't flex uniformly, so the different spots of the cone give off ever-so-slightly different wave patterns which interfere with each other and mess with your response. Now how audible this is, I really have no idea, but it is a point to consider.

Considered... Well here's my take on this, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just what I've understood... Cone shape doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things when it comes to subwoofers, because really it's all just about pistonic movement. Now whether the cone is a cone, square, flat or whatever, you're still displacing air in the same manner. Whether or not the cone is flexing uniformly or not, if it's flexing at all it's still adding distortion to the output. The cone on the P5 should actually be stiffer than a standard cone due to the vertices.

Kickers do get very loud and in many people's opinions they don't sound good, again not necessarily because they're square, just because they were never designed with sound quality in mind. Their total displacement is actually quite high though, they start off with more Sd because of the square cone, and their excursion is very large. Now the linear excursion isn't all that impressive, but who said we were going for linear excursion (we already said they don't sound too good, so why not throw in some more distortion ;)) I'm not sure what the Xmech numbers are on the squares, but I do know it's very high, in the high 20's at least.
I've never heard an L7 in person, but the story is pretty much universal with them: they get loud and sound like balls. The square approach is definitely a step forward for maximizing cone area, but they need to combine that with a better motor, a la XBL2 or something similar. I mean a 13mm Xmax is hardly anything to write home about... There are drivers out there capable of over 30mm LINEAR that sound decent (W7 for example). A large Xmech doesn't really matter if Xmag is anything smaller. Once the coil leaves the gap, there's no more force, so having all that extra travel in the suspension is redundant. It'll absorb whatever inertia the cone has and throw it back. Also, consider you're dealing with a traditional LGLC design for the L7 vs XBL2 for the Brahma. Motor force is gonna drop significantly as the coil moves from rest...

But anyways, sorry for rambling w/the techno babble and all...

Considered... Well here's my take on this, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but just what I've understood... Cone shape doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things when it comes to subwoofers, because really it's all just about pistonic movement. Now whether the cone is a cone, square, flat or whatever, you're still displacing air in the same manner. Whether or not the cone is flexing uniformly or not, if it's flexing at all it's still adding distortion to the output. The cone on the P5 should actually be stiffer than a standard cone due to the vertices.
Right on, like I said I really don't know if the difference would be audible or not. I doubt it would be, but audio can do some pretty strange stuff at times. Either way, if it was audible, it would most likely be at very high frequencies that a sub doesn't play anyway. To cut to the chase though, the sonys sound bad because they weren't designed to sound good, it has very little, if anything to do with the pentagon shape.

I've never heard an L7 in person, but the story is pretty much universal with them: they get loud and sound like balls. The square approach is definitely a step forward for maximizing cone area, but they need to combine that with a better motor, a la XBL2 or something similar. I mean a 13mm Xmax is hardly anything to write home about... There are drivers out there capable of over 30mm LINEAR that sound decent (W7 for example). A large Xmech doesn't really matter if Xmag is anything smaller. Once the coil leaves the gap, there's no more force, so having all that extra travel in the suspension is redundant. It'll absorb whatever inertia the cone has and throw it back. Also, consider you're dealing with a traditional LGLC design for the L7 vs XBL2 for the Brahma. Motor force is gonna drop significantly as the coil moves from rest...

Well with the brahma, the motor force practically drops to 0 right before the xmech, so it's very very hard to bottom out the driver. That's mainly attributed to the XBL^2 motor which holds the BL nearly flat up until the very end of the excursion. I don't see this happening on very many other subs though, most of them have a parabolic BL curve, and even after Xmag is passed the motor still has quite a bit of force left and can push the cone out even farther with enough power. Take the DD drivers, the 9515 has a pretty pathetic xmax if I remember right (probably comparable to the L7 drivers, but I forgot exactly what it is off hand), yet they can move close to 2" or more when fed enough power. When you're just going for output, xmax doesn't really mean much. Yes subs can be designed with a very very high xmax (w7, brahma, xxx, A, idmax, etc), but in order to do that everything in the driver must be improved and optimized which raises the cost considerably. That's where the kickers prevail, the cost is very low when you consider the output you get. Of course it won't sound all that good, but again if you're going for sound quality kicker is not exactly the company you want to be looking at.

Very good points...

I won't get into the SQ argument only because it's far too opinionated (for good reason). :) But anyways I just remembered that Xmag I think is rated at somewhere around 70% of rest Bl, so you're right about the Brahma... After that point there's pretty much nothing left where motor strength is concerned, whereas a driver with a more parabolic Bl curve (a la DD9515) may still have some life in it. I mean in theory, a motor like XBL2 should make for higher SPL numbers simply because it can sweep more volume more efficiently... You'd think. But then most pro sound drivers you see have maybe 9-11mm Xmax at most, and rely more on efficiency and cabinet design than swept volume. Plus you're dealing with many thousands of watts... Anyways, with respect to cost, I actually found that Kicker ain't all that competitive. I looked up the
12L7 on Crutchfield (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3IwpfrFkTsu/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=67700&I=2064S12L7&o=p&a=0&cc=01&avf=N&search=kicker), compared it to the Brahma 12 bought direct from Adire's online store (http://www.adireaudio.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AA&Product_Code=2101&Category_Code=2000) and found the Brahma to be priced about $20 less than the L7, so a decent XBL2 driver isn't gonna cost you any more. Now when you get into the W7 things change obviously because of all the custom parts involved in its design...

wow I didn't know the kickers were that much authorized....I guess I just get so used to ebay prices that I forget we're comparing non-warranted products from ebay to factory direct products with a full warranty straight from the manufacturer with ID, Adire, etc. I guess they aren't that great of a deal then....except that you can find them for cheap on ebay whereas the only places you're going to find the others listed is through one of their authorized dealers or used. Anyway, all good points, I agree completely :)

Now, I'm pretty savvy with a wrench and do most of my own work. I'm a DIY'er by nature, and usually do a very good job. So when it comes to replacing my front speaks I say "no sweat"! Then I go to Best Buy...

First, I think the speaker salesman (I'll call him "dude") knows what he's talking about because he starts rambling in a language I cannot understand about crossovers, and such (well, that was one of the words I understood), so I asked him his opinion of what sounded the best. He recommended that I buy Kenwoods. "Best bang for $100.00" he said (that was my budget). He says that Polk is crap (which he does not sell, by chance) and that Infinity's are too power hungry for my application (I just wanted to run off the Sony deck which is 52Wx4). He sells me on the Kenwood because I like the sound and they are within my price range, and then he proceeds to CHECK THE COMPUTER KIOSK to CONFIRM that the 6-1/2"s that I chose will fit the Element. "It will", he says.

Round one. I buy the Kenwoods, and I'm so excited that I forget to buy the adapter for the speaker wires (which "dude" could have reminded me of, had he been thoughtful), so I go around to the back of the store to the service department and buy a set. Now, I'm not the type that can wait to get home, no-sir-ee bob! I pop the front cover off with my bare hands and get to work. Left front speaker is in now... everything is great... sound is much improved from the passenger side! Now to just put that old cover back on... hmm... lemme try this side first.... nope still wont go on all the way... DANGIT, these speakers stick out too far!!

Round two (and mind you, I have my two little girls with me at the time. They're REALLY getting irritated, especially with Daddy!) I wait in line... and wait... and wait until FINALLY I get my money back. I figure I'll give it one more shot. This time I am smart and bring the stock speaker into the store with me. So I go back to the sales "dude" and I explain my situation. He hems and sighs a bit... checks the computer once again... checks the shelves and says... "Ah-Ha! Here's the one! Due to the space restrictions, unfortunately these are the ONLY choice you have, my friend!" He points me to a pair of Rockford Fosgate T162C's and he GUARANTEES they will fit. Um... price? "A bit more for $119.00/pair, and by the way, these are VERY power hungry so make sure they are hooked up to an amp or they'll sound like crap", he says. Luckily, I already have a 1/2/3/4 channel amp that is currently powering ONLY the sub in the rear, leaving 2 open channels for the front speaks. I can see the disapointment on the "dude"s face when he hears that he wont be selling me an amp today... I think over the Rockford's for a moment. Sure they are practically flush mount, but they are HUGE! Once again, "dude" assures me they will fit, so I agree and I am again on my merry way. I head to my car and figure I'd better at least CHECK for fit while I'm in the parking lot. Immediately I can tell there is a problem... the baffle is in the way. I go back in the service dept to explain and "dude" tells me this is normal, and that I have to cut the baffle out. Ok, I tried, and it was very easy to do, but STILL no fit. These dang Rockfords are just TOO FAT to fit into the hole! And who knows about the depth? I roll my window down just in case I can get it into the hole, but it's all pointless. THEN I notice that I left one of my speaker wire adapters on one of the speakers that I just returned!!!! Damnit!! I go back in and ask them if they wouldn't mind retrieving it from the Customer Service dept. at the front of the store, which they did in a brisk 10 minutes. My kids are getting fussy now... hot, tired, hungry... so I turn on the car and crank the A/C. I am so pissed off!! Forget it... stock speakers for tonight! I put it all back together, and repackage the Rockfords. As soon as "dude" returned with my speaker wire adapter I go back into the store (up front, of course) and get to WAIT some more!!! 3 people in front of me and the dang moron at the desk is taking a personal call... I kid you not!!!

Got my money back. Done for the day.

Moral of the story. Just when you think you've done your homework, think again. Don't believe everything you hear. Don't pay with a check unless you want to wait 2 weeks to have YOUR money sent back to you in the mail. Keep your receipt. Don't take your kids with you. Watch out for "dude" at your nearest Best Buy!

All this makes me also want to suggest "have your speakers professionally installed" but I am too proud for that. Besides, who knows what "dude" will do to your vehicle!! I'll try again later after I do more homework.

LEGO