explain countersteer

alright, I searched the forum and only one post came up with it, so I thought I would ask being new and all. Someone explain countersteering to me. From what I understand if you apply inward pressure towards the right on the left bar you will go left. So pushing in on the left side will push you left, which makes no sense to someone who hasnt tried it, i.e. me. Do I have it right? And can you do this on any bike, including my 1982 Yamaha xs650? Also, give me some pointers on how to tell if I am doing it right. Thanks

Push right go right, push left go left. It is NOT something that you need to work on or practice. Its a part of riding that comes natural in order to get the bike to turn. This is the funny thing about MSF that they try to make you learn this. Its dumb in my opinion. I mean they can tell you the basics and what not but to actually tell you to turn the bars a certain way is stupid because this one dumb girl was doing fine until the instructor told her to turn the bars to the left and she turned to hard and lowsided. So know the concept but dont go out and try to practice cuz really it is not something you should be thinking about. Put it this way, if your not doing it, your not turning the bike givin that your going about 20 MPH or more.

they tried to teach me the same at my course,and to be honest i don't have a clue whether i do it or not.

it was explained to me as;
when you push on the right bar the weight of your body and that of the bike is now off centre to the right and your body is now in the right position to lean to the right. therefore you have started to turn the bike just by shifting the weight and aligning yourself to turn right.

After the gyrocscopic effect starts on the front wheel, turning the handlebars to the right actually moves the traction path to the left side of the wheel where the roundness of the wheel alters the lean of the bike and makes the bike turn that direction.

Become very comfortable with countersteer before really trying to ride hard at a track day.

ummm, translation? :screwy:

If you're asking for the physics of the process, R1-rider is on the
right track, although "gyroscopic effect" only pertains to the "feel" of
the steering, not how it actually occurs. The movement of the contact
patch is, in fact, the basis for 2-wheeler steering. I can try
explaining in detail, if you like.

Otherwise, if you're asking HOW to do it, don't overly concern
yourself. You countersteer without even realizing it. You even
countersteered your bicycle as a kid.

Once you're comfortable riding, and heading down a straight road,
gently nudge one side of the bars forward. You'll go in that direction.
It's that simple.

Leaning your body doesn't cause the bike to turn. Leaning your body
causes you to shift the bars slightly. It's all done unconsciously.

It's important to teach countersteering because you can become a better
rider. If you condition yourself to countersteer, you'll have crisper
handling and quicker emergency manuevering. (...and we've all needed
that at times.)

Racers don't flick the bike side-to-side in corners by shifting their
weight. (At least the FAST ones don't.) They flick the bike by
countersteering. The leaning and hanging-off is to fine-tune the
handling and re-adjust the center-of-mass. ...but that's a whole
different subject.

Hope this helps,
Keith

Yay, Keith! You f-ing ROCK!!! :D

wow, thanks Keith, that really helped, the gently nudging the bar forward bit was perfectly clear. Thanks again guys, I will try it tonight.

gently nudge one of the bars forward? im new, but that just sounds like
"turn the bars one way and wow! you turned that way!"....

am i missing something?? :D

um ok. I'll try that tomorrow.

gently nudge one of the bars forward? im new, but that just sounds like
"turn the bars one way and wow! you turned that way!"....

am i missing something?? :D

don't you mean push the handlebar forward, making the wheel turn one way, and make the bike lean a bit and turn the other way (the side where you pushed the bar)? that'd be why it's called "counter"-steer.

for instance, push the right handlebar forward, the front wheel yaws left, the bike leans to the right, making it turn. Isn't this right people?

i was having a dig at R1. with all that physics crap above i thought i had gone to a nerd party. I thought all the nerds sat at computer talking to other nerds about useless stuff. oh wait aaah shit i'm a squiddly nerd :loser: :banghead: :slap:

Well???

Did you experiment?

Feedback is requested.

Keith

Beginners will learn it without thinking about it just by riding around. I also had teachers who were trying to teach this while only myself and another student were already lisenced riders the rest of the class wasn't so we actually felt sorry for them. If I was to think about it I would probably forget how to ride while concentrating on it. :biggrin: It is nonsense that they try to explain it. It is just balance. If more weight is on the left side the bike will go left or fall over. Simple. If you are going straight and you put your weight on the right side the bike will go right. Simple. If you are riding straight and just turn the handlebar to the right the tires will go right and the weight will be on the left side of the bike now and you will then turn left. Simple. :iceslolan

Tech, good work, that explained it for me :D

all except that last bit..

"Simple. If you are riding straight and just turn the handlebar to the right the tires will go right and the weight will be on the left side of the bike now and you will then turn left. Simple."

so if i turn right, its good turn left? thats what it sounds like to me, can you elaborate? :D

good = going, sorry just got back from night shift, tired :)

If you are riding straight and just turn the handlebar to the right the tires will go right and the weight will be on the left side of the bike now and you will then turn left. Simple. :iceslolan

Ya I'd like to have this explained as well, because this only happens if I wanna lean the bike or swerve fast. Not for turning left or going below 20-25 mph. Below that, steering is like riding a bike. There is steering and counter-steering, two different methods of turning.

It would be much easier to explain with pictures but....If you are riding straight down the road and do not lean at all and you turn your handlebars to the right you tires start taking a path to the right. Well if you are not trying to lean either way and the tires start taking that path to the right your weight will now be on the left side and you will be forced to turn the handlebars left or crash. Just think of it in terms of balance. If your wheels are to the right your weight is on the left which is the way you will turn unless you enjoy crashing. It is much easier and proper to hop on a cycle and ride it around. Thinking about this will only distract you if you are a beginner. I miss my bike now. :rolleyes:


Edit: The only difference in steering and countersteering is one you shift your weight and then follow with the bars the other you use the bars to shift your weight for you and they follow with a normal turn. I really can't explain it better sorry.

yes I agree, but my point there is a certain speed, where below that, counter-steering is not possible. This is where you have to shift your weight and steer. If you get your bicycle to go above 20 mph, which isn't too hard, counter-steering could be done. And in fact, it has a swifter execution, since the rider weighs 5 times as much as the bike.

hrmmm ok, ok... so, im going pretty fast and i turn right with the bars, before my body goes to throw itself to the left from the force (correct so far?)
i position my weight more to the right of the bike to keep the turning flow even?? ...

how did i do?

lol, I have no idea what you just said. Get the bike, it will come to you automaticly and unconsciously at first, before you realize, you'll be doing it.

ahahahahaha ok ok... im just trying to learn, but obviously its one of those things you have to find out for yourself... :)

but for the record, i think i made sense :P

ok I'll give it one more try:

counter-steering:

when you're going in a straight line, let say around 30 mph, you push your right handlebar a few degrees, which makes the wheel turn to the left. right? with me so far? so what follows is, since the weight has been shifted to the right side (since you turned the wheel to the left), the bike starts to lean. and by now, the wheel that was turned left, will automaticly turn right or the direction you're leaned/turning to. if you try to stop the wheel from turning to the right, you'll crash. counter-steering just initiates the turn, but in the end, it's the front wheel turned at whichever direction determines where you're going obviously. below 20 mph or so, I think you're stuck steering in the regular fashion, like bicycle. with counter-steering, the motorbike does the weight-shifting for you.

so above 20mph, you shift your weight slighty to the side you wish to turn, as well as turning the bars that same way? because if you didnt shift your weight, the bike would maybe highside?

(please be right *crosses fingers*)

turning the bar should shift the weight for you. remember, push right, go right; push left, go left.

hrmm... i was thinking like in a car, hang a hard left, and your body is thrown to the right..

now change that example to two wheels, and if you turn left, your thrown to the right, which will then bring the bike from turning left to suddenly turning right, maybe resulting in a crash? so you've got to stop that by leaning left with the turn... correct??

if thats not right, ill give up right now

bikes follow the laws of physics differently than what most are use to. Because you can lean a bike you accomplish more turn than you'd expect from the wheel turned as little as it is. For the most part lean is what makes a bike turn at higher speeds because you really can't just turn the wheel to make a turn, your body and upper bike momentum would fight you and throw you off the opposite way you want to turn. So you have to lean to get the bike to actually go in that direction. When you do so your actually turning the bars a tad in the opposite direction you want to go but not much because once you get the bike to lean you countersteer (typically comes natural) to allow the lean to be stabilized. At slower speeds you don't really rely on much countersteering. This is pretty confusing stuff to understand but luckily your brain is very good at keeping itself balanced.

Well speed does have alot to do with it. Because of where the contact patch is (thanks to the front wheel caster) you can sit on your cycle without moving and turn the handlebars right and you will tip over right. That is thanks to the contact patch moving to the left so you are right speed is definitely a factor. :iceslolan

lol, turning the bars the opposite way your actually trying to turn? ok ok, ill leave it at that and just hope it comes natural when i get my bike :) thanks for all the technical explainations guys :D

Don't listen to me I am just confusing myself. :screwy: :lol: Have fun riding.

hahaha sall good, thanks for trying dude :D appreciate it

A garbage truck infront of me once had trash flying off it while
I was on a bike! I gotta say countersteering saved my bike from getting mucky!

hahahaha

hey, i go 40 mph on my bicycle
this "deserted" road in the park, its so fun...

I went out and tried it and it works great. I have a lot more confidence going into turns now.

Unfortunately my ignition switch died on me and the bike is yet again grounded. I got the pleasure of pushing the bike about 4 miles to the local bike shop. great fun.