Before I buy.....

I've been looking through these forums for the past 2 weeks and found tons of info in helping me decide to buy a 300zx. I understand that the maintenance can be pretty expensive and they're tough to work on but that's not what I'm worried about. I've been wanting to buy a second car (for weekend driver) and I wanted something REALLY nice and it's come down to a 300zx or a 3rd gen RX-7. Both are pricey and require a decent amount of $$ to maintain. In all my driving years a mechanic has NEVER, EVER touch any of my cars which is what worries me about the 300zx. Has anyone here replaced the turbos themselves, or changed the timing belt? Is it possible to do everything by myself? People have told me that to replace the turbos the engine has to be pulled out. Is this true? I really want a TT but I don't want to take to some shop to work on my car.

talk to broke as **** he's replaced/replacing turbo's and has done quite a bit of work on his VG, he's the man..

yeah i think u do have to take the engine out to replace the turbos but im not 100 percent sure as i do not have a tt 300zx.

''' cu62677 '' why don't u replace VG engine with corvette engine so you don't have to change turbos lol....

hey now.. stop givin the new guy idea's about bastardizing the ZX

Because thats even more expensive KK.

Anyway, supposedly Nissan left enough room and access to pull the turbos if you work at it from top and bottom. I can tell you now, its not going to happen. While you might actually be able to get to the 2 or 3 of the 4 bolts attaching the turbo assembly to the exhaust manifold, you'll never get at the myraid of tubes and hoses that surround the turbo much less be able to remove the turbo if you did get it loose.

Pretty much straight up, unless you are really comfortable with pulling apart all the stuff under your hood and trusting yourself to get it running again, you won't be able to anything other than maybe an oil change and check the plugs. I have access to a small shop worth of tools, including such essentials as an engine lift and stand, and a mechanic of 30+ years on speed dial. And even with all the false confidence I can gather, looking at the now empty engine compartment and seeing all the various wires and hoses on the walls, imagining what its going to be like trying to hook all that back up when its packed wall to wall and top to bottom with VG30, it still makes me pause.

Now, if you can do that and want to proceed then the work is not really that hard. Armed with some basic knowledge and the service manual you can do much of the work yourself. Its all just thinking it through and following the instructions. Timing belt requires alot of front end parts to be removed but otherwise is not that hard. Good thing too because if you plan on keeping it for a few years, you'll probably being doing atleast once or twice. Even if it still has that fresh rubber smell and is certified to be good for another million miles by god himself, change the timing belt at the recommended mileage, before that if you drive it hard. Basic maintence is fairly easy, anything else requires atleast some experience.

If you don't think you want to even try playing with all the hoses and sensors under the hood (a TT has about twice as many as an NA), then find a good local shop, preferably one that specializes in Nissans or even Zs specifically if you can find one. Warning: labor is harsh on a Z32, parts are expensive, down times are long. Even if my motor was in the car right now I couldn't drive it, I've been waiting for a driveshaft part for almost 2 months. TTs are budget supercars and require supercar maintence. Half the miles a Ferrari logs in back and forth from the shop, if it can make it on its own power at the time.

The good news is that a Z32 is a remarkably stout and durable machine. A well cared for VG30DETT can last 150K+ easily. Start seperating the wires and hoses out into specific systems and its much less imtimidating. I've spent hours just sitting with the service manual going over what each hose and wire is for and where it goes, that helps alot, especially when you know not only how it works but why it works that way. BTW: Factory manual is your best friend here. Nissan manuals are very good and very easy to use.

All in all: Its not a great car for people just starting out. But if you can afford it and maybe even do the work yourself, you can reap the huge benefits of TT Z ownership. And as we all know, the ladies are big Z fans:

http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/paladin13/bounceenissan.gif

I've noticed that vg30det engines run around the $1,700 range. Would it be a good idea to find a TT with high milage and a decent price and just put a new engine in it? Also, I wouldn't even mind the n/a 300zx just because of the fact that it's such an awesome car so is there a lot of maintenance for it and is it expensive? Can a person maintain an n/a themselves? Unlike the TT that has to be taken somewhere if the turbos go out.

The twin turbo engine is the VG30DETT...dunno if you didn't know that or if you just left off a T. I wouldn't mess with a swap. I can't help but think that this subject comes up every day. Some people think it's doable...I wouldn't do it. I'd just buy a TT in the first place if I wanted a TT.

Haha, sorry about that. I did mean VG30DETT. But my question was not swapping an n/a for a TT but swapping a high milage TT with another engine all together instead of messing with the turbos. I mean, if the engine has to be pulled out I'd might as well replace the whole thing.

You're still doing a swap...removing one engine and putting in another...and in most cases, I wouldn't want to mess with that. It kinda depends...if it has to be pulled, *I* would rebuild it...new pistons, new rods, re-deck it, valve job, over bore, balance the crank, etc. Ideally, if you have the money and it HAS TO BE pulled out, then yank it and ship it to SGP Racing for one of these engine building services. (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/9096300zxttna.html) Why buy a clip and engine and all when you can just have yours rebuilt? It costs about the same (depending on which level of service you actually get, of course) and the end result is more or less a new, bullit proof race engine as opposed to just another stock engine. Wonder if they will do that work on VG30ETs...hmmm....<light bulb goes on>

*smashes the light to pieces*

You heard the man, no one works on Z31s.

YOU ARE UNWANTED!



Although I'm sure you can find someone to rebuild your engine if you wanted it badly enough, a good automotive machine shop can do just about any engine, parts may be another matter though.

You're still doing a swap...removing one engine and putting in another...and in most cases, I wouldn't want to mess with that. It kinda depends...if it has to be pulled, *I* would rebuild it...new pistons, new rods, re-deck it, valve job, over bore, balance the crank, etc. Ideally, if you have the money and it HAS TO BE pulled out, then yank it and ship it to SGP Racing for one of these engine building services. (http://store.yahoo.com/sgpracing-store/9096300zxttna.html) Why buy a clip and engine and all when you can just have yours rebuilt? It costs about the same (depending on which level of service you actually get, of course) and the end result is more or less a new, bullit proof race engine as opposed to just another stock engine. Wonder if they will do that work on VG30ETs...hmmm....<light bulb goes on>


Thems fightin words!

Seriously though, my opinion was that the VG30E wasn't the greatest engine to start squeezing power out of. It just seemed to me that the DE would be a far better base to start building on as it already has 42 off hp more stock. I don't think you can find a better naturally aspirated power-to-capacity or torque-to-capacity engine on the market. Not many anyhow.

I'm definitely a torque man. I want torque as soon as I jump on the pedal. I want to jam my foot down and instantly the tyres start screeching. I've never been a big fan of turbos (no pun intended), even with no lag. I just don't like the idea that I have to wait for my power to come on, even if it is a second or two. This is why the VG30DE seemed so attractive to me. It was going to be upgrade the VG30E to VG30ET, with all the cams, exhaust system, chipped ecu etc., or get a stock VG30DE. With the VG30DE I'd have less total power, but I'd instantly have more torque as soon as I stamped down on the pedal. Besides, I could always do all that shit to the VG30DE down the track anyway.

-Mike

I put a motor in my tt 2 weeks ago.......1 man less than 24 hours.....Whats the big deal?........No special tools......left the trans in the car....installed motor with all the goodies still bolted on. All done in my carport. So $8500.00 and you can buy mine......check my other posts theres a link to the swap.

Thats alright E Honda, we all think you're as great as you think you are.
Some people who aren't the greatest mechanics may not feel comfortable taking the whole engine out and putting a new one in. It could really be a 4 hour job, maybe less if you do this sort of thing all the time but evidently whoever it was that you were directing your comment towards doesn't.

-Mike

Thems fightin words!

Seriously though, my opinion was that the VG30E wasn't the greatest engine to start squeezing power out of. It just seemed to me that the DE would be a far better base to start building on as it already has 42 off hp more stock. I don't think you can find a better naturally aspirated power-to-capacity or torque-to-capacity engine on the market. Not many anyhow.

I'm definitely a torque man. I want torque as soon as I jump on the pedal. I want to jam my foot down and instantly the tyres start screeching. I've never been a big fan of turbos (no pun intended), even with no lag. I just don't like the idea that I have to wait for my power to come on, even if it is a second or two. This is why the VG30DE seemed so attractive to me. It was going to be upgrade the VG30E to VG30ET, with all the cams, exhaust system, chipped ecu etc., or get a stock VG30DE. With the VG30DE I'd have less total power, but I'd instantly have more torque as soon as I stamped down on the pedal. Besides, I could always do all that shit to the VG30DE down the track anyway.

-Mike

Few things in there don't make much sense. You say in the beginning that you don't think the VG30E doesn't seem like the best for getting power out of, but then later on in the post you say how you wanted to upgrade your VG30E with cams and whatnot. Thought you didn't like the VG30E...

Your disliking of turbos is odd. Turbos are the single most effective power adder that can be done to an engine...better than nitrous, better than a supercharger, better than displacement, better than stroking the engine, anything...turbos are the best way to make a powerful engine. Read the "turbo vs. supercharger" thread in the Forced Induction section of the Cars in General forum.

I say screw all that and just drop a helicopter turbine in the car.

500+hp and 700+lbs of torque from dead start all the way to 50,000+ rpm redline. Imagine only needing one gear :D

Apologies in advance for this huge post.

Few things in there don't make much sense. You say in the beginning that you don't think the VG30E doesn't seem like the best for getting power out of, but then later on in the post you say how you wanted to upgrade your VG30E with cams and whatnot. Thought you didn't like the VG30E...


Its not that I hated them, I just didn't think they were the best engine to start modding considering there were engines out there with a better power-to-displacement (like the VG30DE).


Your disliking of turbos is odd. Turbos are the single most effective power adder that can be done to an engine...better than nitrous, better than a supercharger, better than displacement, better than stroking the engine, anything...turbos are the best way to make a powerful engine. Read the "turbo vs. supercharger" thread in the Forced Induction section of the Cars in General forum.

Yes they are effective at adding power. They do it very well, but having a lot of power doesn't really mean as much as most people think. The torque curve is a better measure of an engine's performance, but there are still other issues, such as how available that torque is at any given moment.

An increase of displacement means that that torque is always available. At any given rpm range, at WOT, thats exactly how much torque you're going to have. Turbos skew this torque curve by bringing a third dimension into the graph; intake pressure. Because the intake pressure of a turboed engine cannot be directly derived from the rpm of the engine, you also have to factor in things like: how long you've been at WOT, how much exhaust the engine has expelled, the rpm the engine has been running at and how quickly this rpm is increasing (due to load on the engine etc.)

Supercharging in theory is a direct analogue of increasing displacement. Ideally a supercharger will maintain a constant intake pressure, thereby literally raising the torque curve up. Of course there are issues such as frictional torque losses, increase of intake heat and so on. However, these issues can be overcome.

Forgetting that the main reason i can't have turbos is due to a lack of space in my engine bay, I would still rather supercharge my engine as it gives me this torque on tap. At any given rpm I can stamp on the pedal and the point on the torque curve that corrosponds to my rpm is at my wheels NOW.

Lets form an example. I'm going down a hill, engine braking, and suddenly a little riced up hyundai screams past me. Not wanting the 3 topless girls in my car thinking I'm any less of a man, I feel the urge to show this punk some real car. I slam my foot down on the pedal.

Turbo car: Because I've had a high RPM but no real exhaust (due to almost no intake air passing into the engine) the turbo's aren't spooled. The turbos take a second or 2 to spool up, making that beautiful whine that makes the hyundai driver start to shit his pants. The power comes on soon after.

Supercharged car: The wheels instantly start screeching. Because the rotational speed (and hence intake pressure at WOT) from the supercharger is directly proportional to the engine's RPM (whether I've previously had closed throttle, or WOT), that power is at my wheels NOW. The hyundai looks in his rear view mirror, and sees my car sideways producing a very nice tyre smoke cloud. All the topless girls start getting it on. The hyundai driver crashes into a telegraph pole because he was checking my sideways action in his rear view mirror too long.

This example wasn't to try and prove to anyone that turbos are shit, or that superchargers are better in every circumstance, but that in some instances, superchargers are better than turbos, contrary to what most people seem to believe.

Its just personal preference, but I prefer the the advantages and shortcomings of superchargers over that of turbochargers.

Besides, 3 topless girls getting it on in my car, how could I resist? :D

-Mike

^ I love the way this guy explains things :D

P.S. You still have telegraph poles where you live?

hey mike man those last few comments have made a shit day i little better

the turbo VS supersharger debate has raged for a long while. perdonally i love the feel and sound etc... of turbos. However superchargers definatly have their advantages.
it comes down to personal preference i think.

yeah that's all fine and dandy... why not put both on? other than lack of space, there shouldn't be a reason why you can't do it, of course you might overspin the supercharger at high rpm's, but there are ways around this... it'd take some crazy plumbing work and quite a bit of engine bay space, but i'm sure it can be done, it has been done before, just not on a ZX to my knowledge

I've seen S/C + Turbo jobs...the one I saw was built by a rocket scientist...that should tell you something about the practicality of this. It's pointless.

I don't have the time to read that whole post right now, but I think I got the jist of it. I think you're basically saying that you prefer S/Cs because they don't have lag, right? That's all fine and whatnot, but what you don't realize is that a well designed turbo system can/will have VERY little to NO lag at ALL. I've actually seen one turbo'd car that made boost at idle! Turbos are very versatile and give you many more options than S/Cs. This results in turbos having the ability to be designed and set up for any application and purpose. A well designed and executed turbo system (system...not just a big turbo slapped onto an engine...a SYSTEM...everything being considered...intercooler, the turbo itself, fuel system, ignition system, all piping, exhaust system, etc all working together...) will always be a superior option to using a belt or gear driven supercharger.

Read the artical "Turbos vs. Superchargers" in the Forced Induction section of the Cars in General forum...you'll never think about using a S/C again.

Just read the article mentitioned above and thats some good info. Turbos have been called pretty much the closest thing ever to free horsepower and its true because you're not making more power, you're just taking wasted power and putting it to use. And as shown with even off the shelf components (Like JWT 530BBs :D) you can setup a turbo system to have virtually no lag. An optimized exhaust system and quick spooling turbos will make boost almost immediately. And you don't have to be making 20 psi to have power. Even just 5 psi will add plenty of power and feed the turbos even faster.

I enjoyed the tire section at the end too. I've known that size and even compound is not directly proportional to traction (as LSDs are not traction multipliers in the huge sense that most people think they are). Nice to finally see the math behind that though.

will always be a superior option to using a belt or gear driven supercharger.

Superior in what respect? Superchargers are superior at delivering what I personally want in my engine. Again, as I have said before its all personal preference. I've driven turbo cars and supercharged cars and I know what I like.

I'm not saying that you're shit, or that turbos are shit, so stop acting so defensive. You aren't going to change my opinion.

-Mike

I am actually thinking about buying a z32, then tuning it in my garage for a year or so. I might wait a year just so insurance is slightly less. I have read though, this is a really reliable car. =] Hopefully I won't have to change that many parts.

Superior in what respect? Superchargers are superior at delivering what I personally want in my engine. Again, as I have said before its all personal preference. I've driven turbo cars and supercharged cars and I know what I like.

I'm not saying that you're shit, or that turbos are shit, so stop acting so defensive. You aren't going to change my opinion.

-Mike

A turbo is a very versitile option...it can be set up for anything you want. This is why I say it's superior. It's better in many ways...you usually get better gas mileage, it's easier to change the boost, it's more efficient, it takes less power away from the engine, etc, and a well designed turbo system will have very little to no lag at all...just like a S/C...why would anyone want a S/C?

i prefer turbos too but you have to look at things from other perspectives too. Maybe a SC would be sufficient enough for the type of driving one wants to do, and building a properly designed turbo set up of the performance may be out of that person's price range.