Power Package

Yo, i'm gonna start mod'ding my '98 Prelude and i was wondering if this would be a good first step :

http://www.2kracing.com/product_info.php/cPath/4_59_438/products_id/4197?osCsid=a02506d03ba9f5e925fc5bc428c3180c

My prelude is completely stock and it says it gives 21-27hp gains, so i figured this would be a good first step... what do you guys think?

input would be nice. Thanks

no, not that good of a deal... I could get u t hat setup for


aem cold air... 199$ (free shipping)
obx muffler ... 55$ (plus shping)
NGK sparkplugs.... 25 (plus shpping)

prolly be round 285-290 TOTAL
but if i were u id get FULL exhaust not just a muffler

There is no way a muffler alone will give you 8-10 HP. I'd get a CAI and cat-back exhaust, and then idk since it seems like you're on a budget, otherwise i'd get a GOOD header and hi-flow cat.

It'd be worth it if they were offering an actual catback. The so called "performance muffler" offers near to 0 gains.

With that setup, expect a (if you're lucky) 3-5whp gain.

Well said Signal. And most of that gain, if not all, would be from the CAI.

and you sure as hell don't gain 12-14 hp from a cai. 1-2hp max. they are OVER RATED!

no, coi prolly adds about 5 hp, the spark plugs, maybe 1 hp, and the muffler, maybe 2 hp... go on ebay, you can get the AEM cold air intake for 150 shipped, a full catback OBX exhaust for 300 shipped, and a header for 275 shipped, thats your best bet... if your only looking to spend around 350, get the cold air intake for 150 and the header for 275

Plugs are plugs. They don't do anything in terms of horsepower gain, and you have to replace them every 10k or so miles anyways :wink:. Any old CAI (bought or homemade) will give you the same gains, and OBX stuff blows. I would never use anything that has that brand's name on it.

well your statements arent correct, any cold air intake isnt the same, some intakes are called cold air intakes, but they end at the front of the engine bay and arent getting any colder air then the original intake... also the K and N filter is much better than generic brands... look at the DYNOs that have been done and you can see for yourself... obx is good, i have an OBX exhaust and have had several compliments from random people on the road... a guy in his bmw rolled his window down and complimented me on how good it sounded

There is no way a muffler alone will give you 8-10 HP.

Your wrong. Some mufflers are capable of giving 8-10 horsepower by themselves. 2.5" mufflers have dyno tested 8-10 horsepower many times. I work for a shop in KY that has a dyno machine, we advertise 8-10hp muffler gains, and we provide dyno slips to prove that....they sell pretty well and when we dyno test the cars we install them on, they come out legitamate.

Its really not that hard to understand, as a bigger muffler would get rid of more hot air faster than a smaller muffler. I personally have installed on my car, a custom cut 2.5" exhaust pipe, no reason to pay a lot of money for a cat-back exhaust when I can get the same power and effect with a lousy 2.5" pipe. I also have a test pipe in place of my cat converter, and it dyno tests 12hp...which I can't really say I understand that one.

The technological advances they are making these days are outstanding, and you (theorectically) can't advertise a product that WON'T do what it says it will.

My 2.5" exhaust pipe dyno'd 10hp
My Apexi N2 Muffler dyno'd 10hp
My test pipe dyno'd 12hp
and my racing header dyno'd 15hp

So, that's about 47hp in all out of 4 bolt on parts....all at 6500RPM
which isint bad....I wonder if they could make them generate more power.

Slap a 12hp intake on it, some 3hp spark plugs, a 8hp ground wire set, an ignition swap, and some other little knick knacks and you could build a respectable car before slapping on a turbo or supercharger, nos, and the rest of the crap we put on cars in desperation to be the fastest.

yea right, theres no way you are getting 47hp from a header and exhaust, sorry buddy, but your dyno machine is way off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why would anyone spend 4k on a turbo for 75hp, when your saying that 600 bucks would get you close to 50, thats bs

Show me the dyno of a HONDA PRELUDE, which already is finely tuned making close to 100 HP/liter N/A, gaining 47 WHP from a full exhaust, then I will believe you. Or just show me a dyno from a honda prelude where the muffler alone makes 10 HP. Maybe a turbo car or american muscle, but not a Honda.

yea right, theres no way you are getting 47hp from a header and exhaust, sorry buddy, but your dyno machine is way off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why would anyone spend 4k on a turbo for 75hp, when your saying that 600 bucks would get you close to 50, thats bs

hmm, well the dyno machine being way off is something to be considered possible, although terribly doubtful. We provide the dyno machine for the quarter track here, and its US Regulations sanctioned. Whichs means this nerdy guy with a clipboard tests it to be accurate. I seriously doubt (being as we bought a brand new one in January of this year) that our dyno machine is broken, but its possible.

People would spend 4k on a turbo for 75hp because most people are stupid, and can't grasp the idea of anything different than turbo.

#1 you can find the SAME brand new Greddy or HKS Turbo for MUCH lower than $4,000.00. The trick is, getting to know the companies, putting in the time, going to car shows, offering to help out....I get parts WAAAY cheaper than any of you do, plus I work for a shop that does NOTHING but this, all day, everyday.

#2 a 75hp turbo increase sucks, you can easily get 100hp out of a supercharger if you find one that can produce 100hp, and they exist...you just have to know where to look.

#3 All these terribly high horsepower imports you hear about, how do you think they build these engines? How do you think they gain 800hp BEFORE the nitrous shot? They snap their fingers and make it happen?

No...I will explain it to you.

lets do this with a civic, because we're working on one at the shop right now:

1998 Honda Civic EX Base Model
Completely Stock.

Custom 2.5" Exhaust Pipe (10hp)
Apexi N2 Muffler (10hp)
DC Sports Test Pipe (12hp)
DC Sports 4-2-1 Header (15hp)

that's what we've done so far, so that model comes stock with 127hp
lets do the math = 174hp.

we're doing today:

DC Sports DAC (Direct Air Charger) (15hp)
Skunk 2 OBD1 Z1 Conversion (8hp)
Skunk 2 Conversion Harness (4hp)
MSD SCI Ignition Swap (8hp)
Skunk 2 Cam Gears (optomizes torque and hp)
Skunk 2 Camshaft (lightens car 3lbs + ^^)
Lightended Flywheel (lightens car 5lbs)
ACT Racing Clutch (makes for faster shifting, better hp@rpm ratio)
Short Throw Shifter (makes for faster shifting)
Racing Valves (2hp + lighter weight)
Titanium Retainers (2hp + lighter weight)

now, this is all we're doing to this civic...because that's all this kid wants. He said in a few months he might want a full zex direct-port nitrous injection system, w/remote bottle opener...so.

in all, that's 213hp and 9lbs lighter.....a faster shifting system, better ignition for way better sparking....and all this costs about $700 + labor.

So go get your 4 grand turbo charger, and add 75hp to what you've already built....213 + 75 = 288hp.

that's not 800....now, smart ass.
tell me how to get 800hp from a Civic or Prelude w/out nos
after all these parts, and the small power they generate.
800hp cost about 10 grand in all. :)

apexigod, you better stop while you're ahead.

You don't want me to get started on you, believe me.

hmm, well the dyno machine being way off is something to be considered possible, although terribly doubtful. We provide the dyno machine for the quarter track here, and its US Regulations sanctioned. Whichs means this nerdy guy with a clipboard tests it to be accurate. I seriously doubt (being as we bought a brand new one in January of this year) that our dyno machine is broken, but its possible.

People would spend 4k on a turbo for 75hp because most people are stupid, and can't grasp the idea of anything different than turbo.

#1 you can find the SAME brand new Greddy or HKS Turbo for MUCH lower than $4,000.00. The trick is, getting to know the companies, putting in the time, going to car shows, offering to help out....I get parts WAAAY cheaper than any of you do, plus I work for a shop that does NOTHING but this, all day, everyday.

#2 a 75hp turbo increase sucks, you can easily get 100hp out of a supercharger if you find one that can produce 100hp, and they exist...you just have to know where to look.

#3 All these terribly high horsepower imports you hear about, how do you think they build these engines? How do you think they gain 800hp BEFORE the nitrous shot? They snap their fingers and make it happen?

No...I will explain it to you.

lets do this with a civic, because we're working on one at the shop right now:

1998 Honda Civic EX Base Model
Completely Stock.

Custom 2.5" Exhaust Pipe (10hp)
Apexi N2 Muffler (10hp)
DC Sports Test Pipe (12hp)
DC Sports 4-2-1 Header (15hp)

that's what we've done so far, so that model comes stock with 127hp
lets do the math = 174hp.

we're doing today:

DC Sports DAC (Direct Air Charger) (15hp)
Skunk 2 OBD1 Z1 Conversion (8hp)
Skunk 2 Conversion Harness (4hp)
MSD SCI Ignition Swap (8hp)
Skunk 2 Cam Gears (optomizes torque and hp)
Skunk 2 Camshaft (lightens car 3lbs + ^^)
Lightended Flywheel (lightens car 5lbs)
ACT Racing Clutch (makes for faster shifting, better hp@rpm ratio)
Short Throw Shifter (makes for faster shifting)
Racing Valves (2hp + lighter weight)
Titanium Retainers (2hp + lighter weight)

now, this is all we're doing to this civic...because that's all this kid wants. He said in a few months he might want a full zex direct-port nitrous injection system, w/remote bottle opener...so.

in all, that's 213hp and 9lbs lighter.....a faster shifting system, better ignition for way better sparking....and all this costs about $700 + labor.

So go get your 4 grand turbo charger, and add 75hp to what you've already built....213 + 75 = 288hp.

that's not 800....now, smart ass.
tell me how to get 800hp from a Civic or Prelude w/out nos
after all these parts, and the small power they generate.
800hp cost about 10 grand in all. :)

Ok, I'm ready to bash this n00b, I can't wait any longer.

What is your shop called? and what track is it located at?

People spend 4 grand on turbo kits because they really DO give 75+whp, unlike your claimed 47whp out of basic bolt-ons, which in reality will give you 15+ if you're LUCKY.

Are you claiming that a turbo is only limited to a 75hp increase and that a supercharger is better at 100hp? Both turbos and superchargers can be built and tuned to 200+whp. Where in the world did you get that information?

Ok, now on to your parts list;

First of all, your 2.5 piping is a little large for a n/a motor.
Second, Theres no such thing as an apexi N2. By putting those two parts together, you've essentially made a catback, which in no possible way would produce 20whp as you stated. And DC Sports doesn't make test pipes.

Whats is the difference between an OBD1 Z1 Conversion and a Conversion Harness? Those are the same thing. And you don't gain 12 horsepower from converting your car to OBD1. Give me a reason why any car would gain 12hp from that.

Cam Gears? That amazes me that you would have more than one cam gear, considering the car is a sohc.

Camshaft, yes, power, but you're the first person i've seen associate camshafts with weight. 3lbs lighter, wow, thats gonna make a huge difference.

Lighter Flywheel eh? What brand is it? You obviously don't know what a lighter flywheel is used for, since the only thing you can again associate it to is making your car lighter.

ACT Racing Clutch. Makes for faster shifting? Since when do clutches make you shift any faster? You will shift, as fast as you will shift. A clutch on the other hand, will *GRAB*, more efficiently, what you have throw at it. This part has nothing to do with shifting "faster". And please explain to me this.. HP@RPM Ratio; Are you saying that with a clutch, you'll reach peak hp faster? You obviously don't work at a dyno shop.

Racing Valves, what brand? 2hp? Titanium Retainers, what brand? 2hp?
What about valve springs? Theres Valves, Retainers, but no valve springs? What weird type of valvetrain buildup is this?

Ok, throughout your posts, you mention putting NOS. Now you're mentioning you're gonna put Zex? NOS and Zex are two different companies, which one are you gonna put? When you refer to nitrous oxide as NOS, you do realize that NOS stands for Nitrous Oxide Systems and not that actual product type? Its like saying you're gonna put some apexi on your car when you're trying to say you're gonna put on a catback.

You're building this motor without any type of fuel management?

Then you talk about adding on a turbo to what you already built. How is that gonna work? You can't keep the Intake and Header anymore. What was the point in getting those in the first place if you're gonna get rid of them.

Ok, so you claim its not possible to build a civic, prelude, or whatever to 800hp without nitrous.

Tell me how you would set it up for 800hp, all-motor, *with* nitrous. What are you gonna put on there? a 600 shot?

Well said Signal

well your statements arent correct, any cold air intake isnt the same, some intakes are called cold air intakes, but they end at the front of the engine bay and arent getting any colder air then the original intake... also the K and N filter is much better than generic brands... look at the DYNOs that have been done and you can see for yourself... obx is good, i have an OBX exhaust and have had several compliments from random people on the road... a guy in his bmw rolled his window down and complimented me on how good it sounded

No, a CAI is a CAI. And a short ram intake is a short ram intake. You are grouping the filter-on-a-pipe with a CAI, which extends below the resonator. You can make a CAI from Home Depot pipes and a filter. OBX just blows. From their wires to exhaust to their headers. This is just my own opinion however, and you are certainly entitled to yours.

And a few quick comments on Apexigod's posts. Those numbers are pure speculation. A 50 shot of nitrous, for example, certainly will not dyno at exactly 50whp. However, to play Devil's Advocate, I'd like to mention the SMSP header, which has been proven to generate a 22whp on a dyno. This is from a single header.

I'd also like to point out the flexibility of a turbo kit versus a supercharger kit. A 100hp (for a Prelude? nonexistent. but anyways...) is consistently trapped at that, 100hp. Decrease is possible with an adjustable wastegate, but an increase is never possible. With the exception of pulleys, but there certainly is a limit to that as well. Turbochargers are only limited to the exhaust pressure.