apex seals

i don't know anything about them except how important they are, lol. but i read somewhere that an N/A engine with the right seals could rev safely up to 11grand! that seems quite nice to think about, lol. so what kind of seals, EXACTLY, would i need? also, to rev that high, what other engine components would have to be built or replaced or what have you...?

-jason

thanks in advance fellas..

You would need an ignition system to keep up. the stock ignition system cant handle it. And for that matter, why would you want too?? Your stock power curve has long since dropped off. 11k is reserved for b and p ported motors.

if your revving much over 7k on a stock non-turbo then your wasting your time because the power drops off

unless you're a PP motor, 20B NA, or a wicked 787B car, then don't bother thinking about revving that high.

an extended bridgey could have some power left at 11k rpm
but dont expect the engine's life to be long, (ppl are talking about race weekends because its unthinkable to use those engines in streetcars) so lets say 2 weekends for an extended bridgeported engine revin' at 11k.. (i say it will blow before 5 000 miles or it will start leaking and badly in need of a rebuild)
the seal you wanna use are Carbon Seals, and they last about 20 000 miles, and they dont seal good under 8k, and they dont work good under boost or in nitrous engines.

well... there goes that idea...thanks guys. lol. i don't care to rev that high at the cost of shortened engine life!!!!

LONG LIVE THE ROTARY, lmao...just fucking with ya

well... there goes that idea...thanks guys. lol. i don't care to rev that high at the cost of shortened engine life!!!!

LONG LIVE THE ROTARY, lmao...just fucking with ya

whats funny is that piston engines cant even rev that high even with numerous mods, it will just break and you'll find your 1300$ piston set in the bottom of your oilpan.

it has been proven that rotary engines, under extreme circumstance, are so much more reliable than piston engines,
for example, in dragracing, a V8 will need a rebuilt per run when a rotary can do 8 runs

whats funny is that piston engines cant even rev that high even with numerous mods

That's what F1 engines are for.

That's what F1 engines are for.

imo,
F1 engines arnt modded engines, they are fully built by engineers and stuff.

Well, some Honda JGTC engines are, and they rev pretty high. But i get your point

imo,
F1 engines arnt modded engines, they are fully built by engineers and stuff.

ok a sport bike engine then. :biggrin:

In F1 cars, they shorten the connecting rods to reduce the piston travel, and thus the acceleration seen by the pistons. This prevents the connecting rods from breaking. Compression ratio decreases (worse than the pre-RX-8 rotaries), but the power delivery from a properly designed high-rev engine is unsurpassable, even with poor efficiency. Starting torque is poor, but real racers don’t give a ****.

They totally should use rotaries in racing. As always, the motorcycle scene is a step ahead.

In F1 cars, they shorten the connecting rods to reduce the piston travel, and thus the acceleration seen by the pistons. This prevents the connecting rods from breaking. Compression ratio decreases (worse than the pre-RX-8 rotaries), but the power delivery from a properly designed high-rev engine is unsurpassable, even with poor efficiency. Starting torque is poor, but real racers don’t give a ****.

They totally should use rotaries in racing. As always, the motorcycle scene is a step ahead.

rotaries have been banned from F1 in 82 or 84

Why, are thay that much better?

whats funny is that piston engines cant even rev that high even with numerous mods, it will just break and you'll find your 1300$ piston set in the bottom of your oilpan.

it has been proven that rotary engines, under extreme circumstance, are so much more reliable than piston engines,
for example, in dragracing, a V8 will need a rebuilt per run when a rotary can do 8 runs

One, piston engines have been revving that high for a while. Sport bikes have already been mentioned. Even street car piston engines have ben revving higher than stock 13Bs and 20Bs for years, from the '68-69 Chevy DZ302 in the Z/28 of those years. Stock they were capable of 8000 rpm, and with very few mods, they were streetable 9000 rpm pushrod V8 engines. Modern OHC engines can do that as well.

Second, the piston engines that need rebuilding after every run are the ones putting out well over 2000 hp in the top racing classes. Funny car and Top Fuel both make 4000-5000 hp. Yes, they need rebuilds after nearly every run, but can the rotary even MAKE 4000 hp? Didn't think so.

Rotaries were banned from a lot of racing classes simply due to the inability to agree on an actual displacement. F1 is based around displacement, and when the actual displacement was set at 1.5 liters, the 13B rotary was classed at 2.6 due to essentially being a 2 stroke design. When moved to 3.5 liters and no turbos, it simply isn't competetive (the 13B is rated at 2.6 liters, and cant make enough power without turbos, and the 20B is rated at 4 liters which is too large even without turbocharging. And again, without turbos, it simply doesn't make enough power).

stock V8's redline at 8k? LOL dude, I've never seen a camaro redline over 6500... my friends 96 Z28 redlines a5 either 5200 or 5500 I can't remember exactly, my other friends 86 is about the same, and another guy I know(not exactly a friend lol) has a late 60's Z28 that redlines at 6500 I believe... maybe they can rev to 8k and not blow, but wow, a 13B NA can rev to 10k for 10 minutes straight on one rotor before it goes... theres a video around here somewhere of some idiots doing it

I hit 8800 on my stock motor all the time..

stock V8's redline at 8k? LOL dude, I've never seen a camaro redline over 6500... my friends 96 Z28 redlines a5 either 5200 or 5500 I can't remember exactly, my other friends 86 is about the same, and another guy I know(not exactly a friend lol) has a late 60's Z28 that redlines at 6500 I believe... maybe they can rev to 8k and not blow, but wow, a 13B NA can rev to 10k for 10 minutes straight on one rotor before it goes... theres a video around here somewhere of some idiots doing it

Man, you need to actually do some research. Check out the '67-69 Chevy DZ302. A 4" bore and a 3" stroke, designed specifically for high rpms. Yes, the factory marked redline was 6500, but the engine itself was plenty capable of 8000 rpom in stock form, and 9000 rpm all day long with very minor mods. I've built an engine like that for a car of mine, and there were 5 of those Camaro's autocrossing in my sports car club.

Where you get off thinking that they have anything to do with a modern 350 cid engine is anyone's guess.

Now, I have yet to see a 13B in stock form rev past 7500, and Iv'e yet to see a streetable 13B go to 10. And 1ok on one rotor? Not going to move a car very well doing that. 10 minuted before it blows? Not very reliable.

Sory, been working with rotaries for way too long to be fooled by that stuff. I've dealt with rotaries that could twist well over 10k rpm in race form. I know whow long they last, and how driveable they are. I've been doing this for a couple decades, my friend.

any rotary on one rotor isn't gonna work very well, and holding the car at 10k+ rpms for 10 minutes is pretty freaking good... how can you say you've never seen a 13B rev past 7500? they redline at 8000, they can rev plenty higher, theres just no reason to

Now, I have yet to see a 13B in stock form rev past 7500, and Iv'e yet to see a streetable 13B go to 10. And 1ok on one rotor? Not going to move a car very well doing that. 10 minuted before it blows? Not very reliable.

Sory, been working with rotaries for way too long to be fooled by that stuff. I've dealt with rotaries that could twist well over 10k rpm in race form. I know whow long they last, and how driveable they are. I've been doing this for a couple decades, my friend.

If you've been working with rotaries for so long, then you should know what a stock form rotary can do. True, a stock rotary motor won't last long revving 8000+ rpms but what motor can in stock trim? If you studied Wankel's concept of the motor, the rotary motor is the most mechanically efficient motor design ever made. Minimal friction and moving parts made to rev VERY HIGH. The only problem is heat. HEat is a adversary for all of us. But what piston motor do you see can rev as high as a rotary? I'd like to see one.

BTW Soyo, I have that video you're talking about. Its a guy name Brandon and his friend. They bought a S5 convertible with a blown apex'i seal and revved the sucker to hell. They wanted to see what would happen since they were doing a turbo swap anyways. If I remember correctly, they held the motor at 9000rpms for 9 minutes and 45 seconds, and they HAD to stop because the exhaust flared up near the gas tank and could have caused a nasty fire. I'm sure that motor was warped into the next dimension.

Kevin