Where do you shift?

Ok, so I was reading this on 3si:

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=221403

synopsis: discussion about shifting before or after redline
some thought the power dropped off after 4500-5000 because the turbos don't hold boost to redline, so they shifted short of redline(~6000).
Others thought the torque was higher in 1st at any rpm than it would be in 2nd, so they say take 1st to 7200, 2nd to a bit over redline, and so on. I get the feeling from the posts that most were refering to 5spd, but I didn't check.

Typically if I am actually full out racing, I take each gear to redline. So assuming still stock conditions, where do you guys fall on this argument?

I would tend to think that the 2nd argument would hold more ground, and judging by the torque curves, taking it a bit above redline would still be shifting into the idle powerband, but personally, I don't think I'll be taking my baby past redline.

i beleive whe make our 300 and 320hp at 6000 rpm. i would shift at 6800 and pretty much do that through all the gears exept 3rd. i'd take 3rd gear all the way to redline simply because 4th gear doesn't pull like 3rd does. this is speaking from a 5 speed

Since I am jsut learning to drive a stick I have a hard time getting into first from a stop (especially uphill! :eek:), how do you get into first real quick? I'm afraid I'll fuck up something if I try it too fast. Any hints for a shifting noob?

Yea, just keep practicing. On hills, I used to hold the brake in while letting the clutch out slowly. Then when I felt it was catching, I'd let go of the brake and give some gas. (While still letting the clutch out slowly) It all just takes time and practice. You should have it within a few weeks.

Just let the clutch out real slowly at first. You'll gradually get faster and faster. Just remember not to give the car too much gas. You'll grow fond of the smell of burning clutch.

I've heard of some people holding the e-brake while on hills. I never did that though and wouldn't recommend that.

Good luck.

EDIT: Don't try and race your car right away. Wait untill you know where, exactly, the clutch catches.

Oh yea Third Gear Pulls the hardest besides 1st gear in the VR4's. But basicaly after 2500RPM it's all HP anyways. The thorque in second gear is hardly noticable. If ur good enough u can maybe make ur tire give a slight bark when shifithing into second i only did that once and cant get it agian dont know why.l

I usually shift between 3000 to 3500 RPM. One time on a slight slant, my car kept dying and I was stuck there for 3-4 turn lights. Man it was embarrassing.... LOL I also heard about the whole deal with using the e-brake on a hill though I've never tried it myself.

Anyways, today when I was coming home from school, my gear wouldn't go into first but eventually I thought it went in so I tried taking off and it started grinding. Awe man, my poor babie.... :(

Try doing the drivetrain oil change, but if that doesn't help, your synchros might be getting to the point of replacement. Slade it all comes from practice. The day i got my vr4, the guy I bought it from lived on a hill, so that was embarassing enough, I rolled back 2 or 3 times before just giving it way too much gas and rocketing up the hill. Then closer to home, I managed to lauch at 4500rpms at a red light by accident, so everyone thought I was showing off, but I just hadn't gotten used to the gas/clutch feathering pts of the car yet. It happens, and with practice it will become 2nd nature.

EDIT: my original post was talking about racing, and I'm still interested in what you guys think about that argument.

the one problem i had was my thermostat was on its way out an my engine an trans was gettin too hot an the clutch wouldnt fully disengage so it would not go into gear even with my foot all the way to the floor - so i checked everthing an it was all tight except for the fact my temp was always high - so i went to town an on my way there i overheated... an i walked to the parts store got a new thermostat an put it in on the side of the road an - wouldnt ya know it - i let the car run a few minutes the engine cooled down an then the clutch worked great - so if anyone ever has a prob with the car overheating an the clutch not letting you go into gear check the thermostat an make sure it is working an not seized up ..... yeah i started drivin standards like the1namedmarc explained it seems to be the best way to start an the easyest an its how i have taught people how to drive from then on...... later guys....

yeah my turbos seem to hold the boost alway past redline an i dont loose power at all - it is such an amazing car - i love it more than my pets.... shes my baby an i will always love the features she has an the power an handling... :)

Try doing the drivetrain oil change, but if that doesn't help, your synchros might be getting to the point of replacement. Slade it all comes from practice. The day i got my vr4, the guy I bought it from lived on a hill, so that was embarassing enough, I rolled back 2 or 3 times before just giving it way too much gas and rocketing up the hill. Then closer to home, I managed to lauch at 4500rpms at a red light by accident, so everyone thought I was showing off, but I just hadn't gotten used to the gas/clutch feathering pts of the car yet. It happens, and with practice it will become 2nd nature.

EDIT: my original post was talking about racing, and I'm still interested in what you guys think about that argument.


I'm still confused with what type of oil changes I'll have to do to my car..... And well, how much does it cost to change your synchros? Is it possible to do it yourself or will I have to take it to a shop since it's complicated? Where's it located?

I shift at 6000 rpms and if I am up against a serious opponent then 6500 rpms. I used to own some DSMs I raced alot and shifted at redline. its fine because it wont kill the motor but it reducess the life of your engine. Redline is the highest safe point to which your engine can rev. a.k.a. the limit. if you push a motor constantly to its limit you will cut its life short. I could be wrong, maybe its totally safe but then again rebuilding my 6G72 once is like rebuilding my 4G63 four times! I dont wanna risk it. also as for going past redline, any pro will tell you not to. look at a horsepower band, there is a peak and then a drop, most cars start to drop HP right before redline. My cars Dyno pull showed a drop after 6200rpm. from factory its 222HP@6000rpms. no need to rev higher Id say.

Since I am jsut learning to drive a stick I have a hard time getting into first from a stop (especially uphill! :eek:), how do you get into first real quick? I'm afraid I'll fuck up something if I try it too fast. Any hints for a shifting noob?

Ugh! Thourun, this is my "first" car and i haven't even driven it yet. It's a manual so i'm also gonna have to learn. Luckily i have my big bro to teach me; he's been driving stick for i'd say .... about 5 years. My cousin told me he got it the first day he got his car. I mean of course he wasn't a perfect driver, but he got the basics and now he drives just fine. My bro also told me the same, that he got the basics in one day. Hopefully i'll get it really fast too lol. I have driven, or better said, "have tried" to drive my friends manual civic. My very first time i stalled out once, but after that, i got into 2nd gear just fine, after 15min.

Hey what do you guys think about shift lights? Would that help get through the learning curve a little quicker? Or should i just save myself the money.

http://www.2kracing.com/product_info.php/cPath/7_67_202/products_id/664

You guys think i can learn to drive manual in say ...... less than 2weeks? Well, not perfectly, but i mean lol just enough not to be embarassed :)

I sitll stall in trafic going up a hill like once every two days now but just because I was being stupid lol. Nitro, it's intimidating at first but I tought myself, got the plates and jsut took her around the block a few dozen times, the hard part is as you said getting going in first from a dead stop, especially on a hill, you'll pick it up in under two weeks easy, I was confident to drive it anywhere after the second day driving it. I may not be able to get going in first from a dead stop very quickly but I can keep up with the rest of trafic jsut fine by now. It's loads of fun! Good luck!

Yeah, the best way to learn is to just have someone show you hte basic idea, ie, clutch and shifting, then just go out and do it. 2 weeks is plenty of time to not embarrass yourself constantly. I mean you obviously wont be teh best you can be, but you will have the basics and probably a few races down by then. My first few races in a stick, I blew the shifts almost everytime, but you get better as you try. So just go practice and have fun. You'll probably still stall every once in awhile at 2wks, but you'll be able to drive.

Nitro...no need for a shift light. As far as I know, that is for shifting during a race, not everyday driving. You'll learn when and where to shift with time. When I first got my car, I'd keep it in gear until higher rpms, and just race around everywhere, now with gas prices, I shift as low as possible. It all comes with practice, but the only way to learn is to try. Good luck

the first day i got my 91 sl 5 spd i drove around town learning how to drive it..i stalled a buncha times but after about 3 hours of driving i got the hang of it and ended up driving all the way down the long island expressway. its easy

Ha, I forgot the best/most frustrating part of the first day in my vr4. So this was the first 6spd I'd ever sat in...let alone driven. So all was good until I went to get the pictures taken for insurance. I then had to back up out of the parking spot for the first time..........how the hell do you get this in reverse. I swear I started and stalled it 6 or 7 times in 6th gear looking for reverse before I finally figured it out. I was on the brink of going back into the shop and asking for help. But being that my girlfriend was there and I had my ego to salvage...I had to try an 8th time...and apparently the 8th time was the charm.

driving stick is hard at first, i try to relate it to driving a dirtbike (i used to when i was young) clutch in to start, make sure the clutch is ALL the way in when you shift as to avoid grinding etc etc. My first stick experience was with a 95 eclipse, i shifted from 1-2 fine 2-3 ok and then i come to a stop sign... stall, oops gotta remember the clutch. You'll get it, for some reason eventually whether you drive manual transmission constantly or not, you will get the understanding with age.

As someone else mentioned you want to shift jsut after your peak HP. the longer after that point you wait the more HP you loose.

On the TT cars(stock) that posint is in the 6800-6900 range. A more modded car will peak higher and thus you'd need to figure out where the peak is and use that as a guide.

As someone else mentioned you want to shift jsut after your peak HP. the longer after that point you wait the more HP you loose.

On the TT cars(stock) that posint is in the 6800-6900 range. A more modded car will peak higher and thus you'd need to figure out where the peak is and use that as a guide.


Is that for racing only or for daily driving as well? Where should we shift if we want to save gas (assuming there's such a thing)? Hehe :)

to save gas shift low, like 2500 would be the lowest I would shift, any lower and the gear might not catch smoothly, regular driving I shift at 2800-3000 rpms and the 6500-6900 is strictly for racing, or for when you forgot to get your girlfriend flowers on your aniversary or something, and she will be home in five minutes and the flower store is like 10 blocks down the street.

when I'm crusing I normally shift in the 3000-3500 range. (might be different with a 6 spd). THe key to saving gas is to keep the RPM's low while crusing. 6's are better for milage. If you want milage:
keep off the gas.
use the cruise control.
turn the AC off if you don't really need it.
keep the rpm's as low as possiable(min 2200~)

I got 25mpg with the TT on the way to the NG and thats with the AC on and I'm still running rich from a untunes AFC.

If i wanna save gas I shift at 1800rpms, every gear will enagage fine and drive if you shift just before 2000, I suggest shifting lower and lower until you find your 'sweet spot' where you can shift without stalling/bucking/bogging. If I am low on gas/trying to conserve, I literally shift at 2k or lower, I haven't found a need to take it to 2200 or 3000.

Slade..that is for racing...for daily driving...you don't want to continualy take your car to redline.

If i wanna save gas I shift at 1800rpms, every gear will enagage fine and drive if you shift just before 2000, I suggest shifting lower and lower until you find your 'sweet spot' where you can shift without stalling/bucking/bogging. If I am low on gas/trying to conserve, I literally shift at 2k or lower, I haven't found a need to take it to 2200 or 3000.

Slade..that is for racing...for daily driving...you don't want to continualy take your car to redline.

you can really shift that low?? i dont like to bring my car really below 1800 rpms because then ur in 3rd gear going like, 15 mph and if ur hittin the gas hard even the littlest bit its not too good for ur tranny, especially if u mash it down in that high a gear at that low a rpm..so basically i shift so after i do my rpms are back around 2200 or so

Typically I shift at 2500 for daily driving, under 2000 is only when I'm on my last 1/4 tank and the fuel light comes on for the first time, I shift that low, but I don't mash the gas if I am doing that. I just cruise really slow.
If I am feeling like going a bit quicker I shift at 5k, and if I'm racing I take it to right around redline.

when going up hill hold your emergencey brake on and give gas and to just get moving out of first well... thats just something you have to practice .... you must be syncronized

...the 6500-6900 is strictly for racing, or for when you forgot to get your girlfriend flowers on your aniversary or something, and she will be home in five minutes and the flower store is like 10 blocks down the street.

LOL Good to know I'm not the only. Hehe I spilled water mixed with rose food (don't know what it's called) all over my sister's Eclipse trying to make it back to my gf's apartment on time on our anniversary. :)

[QUOTE=The1NamedMarc]Yea, just keep practicing. On hills, I used to hold the brake in while letting the clutch out slowly. Then when I felt it was catching, I'd let go of the brake and give some gas. (While still letting the clutch out slowly) It all just takes time and practice. You should have it within a few weeks. QUOTE]


Yea a lot of people do that, hold the e-brake until it catches then let it off and go.