George's legacy.

http://www.ericblumrich.com/year.html

Oh,and Saddam's pistol for a souvenir. :rolleyes:

Good find, taranaki.

Was it really worth it, Bush? Was it? :( :disappoin

And here's a few more.


1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
11. Signed trade promotion authority.
12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
13. Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.
18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
20. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
21. Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
22. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
23. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
24. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
25. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
26. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
27. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.
28. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
29. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
30. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
31. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
32. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
33. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
34. Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
35. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.
36. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
37. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.
38. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
39. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed.
40. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
41. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
42. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
43 Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
44. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
45. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
46. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
47. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
48. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
49. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
50. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
51. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
52. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
53. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
54. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.
55. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
56. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
57. Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).
58. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.
59. Told the Congress and the world, "America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country."
60. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
61. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
62. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.
63. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
64. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals













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The pictures in that video can be viewed in a bunch of different senses. We don't know what was going on at that particular moment in that picture. Those explosions could be from suicide bombers, the Iraqi's with weapons could be Iraqi police or anti-insurgents. The picture of the women with one leg could have very easily been a woman who had her leg blown off by a land mine laid by her own country-men. The pictures are not in context.

What transpires below is one post by me, but had to be broken into pieces, as even cutting in half, it was too long to post - apparently. I've been trying to post it for the last half-hour.
1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
- of which at least 52% will eventually belong to only 1% of the population, or approximately 121 billion dollars will be going to only 1.4 million of our richest taxpayers - out of a population that will be approaching 300 million by then. Tell me what creative accounting you would do to float our country then.2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
- the below statements will cover the above "legacy":
Goodbye, Death Tax. Hello, Birth Tax!

We've all heard republicans whine about the estate tax. According to republicans, it isn't fair that people who are handed millions of dollars for the grand accomplishment of being born into a rich family should have to forego a single penny of this unearned income via taxation. After many tormented, sleepless nights, republicans in the House of Representatives decided to put an end to this unspeakable crime. They drummed up support for its repeal by giving the estate tax a fictitious nickname, the "death tax." Calling the estate tax the "death tax" is, of course, lying. All Americans die for free, and less than 2% die with estates that are taxed at all. Be this as it may, republicans decided to call this tax something really sinister sounding because nobody would support the repeal of the "Last Chance To Tax the Fattest of America's Fat Cats Before They Hand Over Enormous Piles of Cash to Their Lazy, Undeserving Children" Tax. And before you could say "campaign contribution kickback," the House of Representatives decided that those least deserving of a tax cut should have this unearned income handed over tax-free.

But now that billionaire heirs are giving the tax man the finger (if the House has its way), what do we do about the big hole in the budget that the estate tax used to fill? Cut programs? No way. Showing Americans the real budgetary priorities of the republican party would see it swept from Washington faster than Governor Bush could review a Texas death penalty case. Enter the second part of the republican tax scam: Instead of cutting programs to pay for this ridiculous tax cut, republicans simply decided to steal the money from the Social Security trust fund and borrow the rest to fill the shortfall.Continued below...

...Continued


But won't somebody have to pay interest on this huge pile of debt that republicans are racking up from all of this borrowing? Duh! And who do you think will pay it back? That's right, it will be you and me, our children, and their children. Every working American who has the misfortune to be born poor or middle class will enter the world owing the tax money that republicans are refusing to collect from the "Death Tax." Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the truly republican tax: The Birth Tax.

The Birth Tax is the interest paid on an enormous debt that republicans will create when they decide not to collect the estate tax anymore. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (http://www.cbpp.org/5-25-00tax.htm), the cost to the rest of us taxpayers for the elimination of the estate tax will be $294 billion over the next 10 years or so. At around 5% servicing costs per year, that means that after 10 years of borrowing money to offset the estate tax cut, those Americans who still pay taxes will see a permanent $14.7 billion annual increase in their tax bill. Of course, that bill will increase the next year. And the year after that. The Birth Tax will continue to grow as long as the government borrows money every year to offset the elimination of the estate tax.

Here is a fun comparison of the "Death Tax" with the Birth Tax:

1. While the "Death Tax" was paid from less than 2% of the of the richest estates, the "Birth Tax" will be paid by everybody who pays federal taxes, including those who are so poor that they pay only Social Security taxes.

2. While the "Death Tax" was only collected after rich folks were completely finished with the estates (They're dead, remember?), the Birth Tax will paid by the living, most of whom aren't finished with their incomes.

3. While the "Death Tax" generally reduced the amount an estate would hand to an heir (in other words, the heir's unearned income), the Birth Tax reduces the amount of earned income a hard-working American will keep.

4. While the "Death Tax" went into the general fund to pay for things like health care for the elderly and homeland security, the Birth Tax will buy absolutely nothing.

5. While the "Death Tax" was paid only once, the Birth Tax will be paid yearly and will likely increase yearly, forever.

6. While the "Death Tax" is traced back to Thomas Paine (http://www.pgtoday.com/PGT/Articles/mt_rushmore_and_a_history.htm), a REAL American patriot, the Birth Tax is given to us by pretend patriots, who proclaim that their love of America does not extend to funding America with their tax money.

If the republicans in the House have their way, we employed Americans will soon be enjoying our new Birth Tax. And we'll really enjoy knowing that this tax used to be paid by the very richest of estates after their former owners were finished with them, and that republicans decided to shift that burden to the rest of us instead.

The moral of the story: Republicans value rich guys, even dead ones, above all other Americans.

What was that statement by Senator McCain? "There was a time that Republicans stood for fiscal responsibility." - operative word being was.

...Continued below...

...Continued...

3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

Hmm. So from a surplus of government money, to a deficit in the trillions - helped by his billions spent on a questionable "war" - is a turnaround? I'll have to agree with you on that one, Yogs.

4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.

- Sounds like he's not happy with the power he has already.

Wait...this is a good thing?

5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.

This is one of the few things I like, that have come out of his administration.

6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.

- Excerpt from the House Small Business Committee "Progress Report - President Bush's Small Business Agenda"


President Bush seems to understand how important small businesses are to the health of the American economy. During his bid for the White House, he touted his credentials as a small business owner and promised, if elected, that his administration would be the most small business friendly ever.

To follow up on his pledge, in March 2002 President Bush unveiled his small business agenda. He said "this plan will free entrepreneurs to devote more time and resources to servicing their customers, developing their products and helping their employees." He then went on to outline five issue areas of critical importance to small business owners - tax incentives, health care, regulatory relief, fairness in federal contracting, and opening sources of information for small business.

I don't think anyone could argue with this, and in terms of the issues, President Bush was right on. We are not here to criticize his promises or his agenda, we are here to ask almost a year and a half later, where are the accomplishments? Where is the follow through? Where is the commitment?

I can tell you - there is none. This agenda is just another instance in which there is a large credibility gap between the rhetoric of this administration and the actions of it.

What we have instead of accomplishments are failures, current law represented as breaking new ground, and innovation repackaged as old policy. Because of this, the state of small businesses is abysmal - and getting worse by the day.

What does this inaction really mean? It means small businesses will continue to struggle. They have received no tax relief and any surplus that could have gone to help them is now long gone.

It means that small business owners, their families and their workers will have to continue to live one illness away from bankruptcy. As health care costs continue to skyrocket, many are forced to drop coverage.

It means that the confusing regulatory process will continue to drain small businesses of almost $7,000 per employee per year, which could be used to grow their businesses. While small businesses struggle to get the information they need to solve these problems.

It means that the best way for small businesses to grow - the $235 billion federal marketplace - the largest in the world - is in jeopardy as it remains largely closed to small businesses.

The failure of this administration and congressional Republican leaders have contributed significantly to the current slide facing our economy. It's not like when the President's party sets its mind to something, it does not get done. History has proven otherwise.

In the early 1990s, shortly after Republicans assumed control of Congress, they announced their Contract with America. And with dedication and hard work, they were able to get every agenda item on the House floor for a vote within the first 100 days of Congress, as promised.

The president certainly hasn't shown this same fervor for small business - even though they control Congress and the White House. So the progress report on the president's small business agenda is simple really - there has been no progress.


Anyhow, so how about those small-business bids for contractors in the Iraqi war? What happened?

7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.

Yes, of course. When you've raided the coffers, find somebody else to carry the finances.

8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.

I'll admit, Clinton's, and OSHA's rules on this one were a bit heavy-handed, and needed to be toned-down...not repealed. The word that Republicans wanted to avoid, whenever discussing this issue was "safety". But then again, "profit" comes before "safety", right?

9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.

THIS is why Kenneth Lay will be spending the rest of his crooked life in prison, right?

10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.

- Why the Dividend Tax Cut Will Cause Interest Rates to Raise (http://economics.about.com/cs/interestrates/l/aa012303a.htm)

I think Warren Buffet said it best (a multi-millionaire himself):

"Putting $1,000 in the pockets of 310,000 families with urgent needs is going to provide far more stimulus to the economy than putting the same $310 million in my pockets," Buffett added.

Oh,and Saddam's pistol for a souvenir. :rolleyes:

He got Saddams pistol? He always gets all the really cool stuff.

The pictures in that video can be viewed in a bunch of different senses. We don't know what was going on at that particular moment in that picture. Those explosions could be from suicide bombers, the Iraqi's with weapons could be Iraqi police or anti-insurgents. The picture of the women with one leg could have very easily been a woman who had her leg blown off by a land mine laid by her own country-men. The pictures are not in context.


the point of this is lost on you isn't it?

No, the point of this video is not right by me.

36. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
This is a joke right?

What transpires below is one post by me, but had to be broken into pieces, as even cutting in half, it was too long to post - apparently. I've been trying to post it for the last half-hour.

- of which at least 52% will eventually belong to only 1% of the population, or approximately 121 billion dollars will be going to only 1.4 million of our richest taxpayers - out of a population that will be approaching 300 million by then. Tell me what creative accounting you would do to float our country then.
- the below statements will cover the above "legacy":Continued below...

Thank you Dick Tracey! It makes sense that the people paying the highest bills will get the biggest break. Or are you of the feelings that successful people should be punished by the government? Work hard. Get taxed more. Good thinking :rolleyes: Instead of focussing on the income side, perhaps a look at expenses is in order.

.... I can tell you - there is none. This agenda is just another instance in which there is a large credibility gap between the rhetoric of this administration and the actions of it. ....

Nice set of facts there. I can tell you that there was some. Do you own a small business? Help run one? In-laws have been doing it for twenty years now. I'll take their word over yours.

Hmm. So from a surplus of government money, to a deficit in the trillions - helped by his billions spent on a questionable "war" - is a turnaround? I'll have to agree with you on that one, Yogs.

Though you claim to be a conservative, this statement is clear proof that you are not. "surplus of government money" no conservative believes its the governments money. Aside from that glaring fact, I once again point out expenditures. War or no war, there are to many entitlement programs that eat to much of the 3 TRILLION dollars annually collected in taxes in this country (federal, state and local).

And for the line item veto.
- Sounds like he's not happy with the power he has already.

Wait...this is a good thing?

You don't think adding the ability to limit spending is a good thing? Wait, we already reestablised the fact you are not a conservative.

On Social Security
Yes, of course. When you've raided the coffers, find somebody else to carry the finances.

Welcome to the problem of giving government to much money. They spend it. Another reason to cut taxes further and eliminate programs. The government is inefficient at running businesses. Social Security is the second biggest scam after income taxes being run on this country. Government takes your money and on the off chance you live long enough to get some of it back, it might make 1% growth.

I think Warren Buffet said it best (a multi-millionaire himself):

"Putting $1,000 in the pockets of 310,000 families with urgent needs is going to provide far more stimulus to the economy than putting the same $310 million in my pockets," Buffett added.

Buffet knows damn well he can cut a check to the IRS any time he wants regardless of what taxes are required of him. This goes for you and anyone else who doesn't like their taxes lowered. Send in a check, but keep out of my pocket book. (another great example of why you should stop calling yourself a conservative)













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Thank you Dick Tracey! It makes sense that the people paying the highest bills will get the biggest break. Or are you of the feelings that successful people should be punished by the government? Work hard. Get taxed more. Good thinking :rolleyes: Instead of focussing on the income side, perhaps a look at expenses is in order.

So...a 2-dollar loaf of bread is worth the same for a family that's making 20K a year, as it does to a family worth even a hundred thousand?

How do you want to be remember after you die? As somebody that "kapt careful watch of his pockets"?

Nice set of facts there. I can tell you that there was some. Do you own a small business? Help run one? In-laws have been doing it for twenty years now. I'll take their word over yours.

LOL

Your staunchness to support your chosen candidate has made a usually intellectual person as yourself start to assume things of another - usually not smart trait.

Aside from the fact that my dad is an executive type, and is more likely to profit from the Bush plan, as much as most anybody I know, he also owns a couple of small businesses. I was a kid, practically living in my mom/dad's shipping warehouses.

Also, I have a few friends that own their own small-business.

Though you claim to be a conservative, this statement is clear proof that you are not. "surplus of government money" no conservative believes its the governments money. Aside from that glaring fact, I once again point out expenditures. War or no war, there are to many entitlement programs that eat to much of the 3 TRILLION dollars annually collected in taxes in this country (federal, state and local).

LOL

Fine. "The people's money" When was the last time you had a real say in how it was spent?

As for my ideals that you will are now attacking, I was born somewhat privileged, from a staunchly Catholic family. This is where my conservative side hails from.

The fact that I have done actual missionary work, when I was studying Theology with the Jesuits is where my "softer-side" hails from.

All tempered by the fact that I eventually became an Airman with the USAF, and served during GHW Bush's version of this conflict.

So, what does your support of all this wasted money say about your ideals?


~~~~

I am busy at work right now, so I will revisit the rest of your attacks later.

Nice diversion though - cast a shadow on the messenger, when you don't like the message - I think the last member that was banned because of this forum tried that too.

So...a 2-dollar loaf of bread is worth the same for a family that's making 20K a year, as it does to a family worth even a hundred thousand?

How do you want to be remember after you die? As somebody that "kapt careful watch of his pockets"?

:sly:
At least it was good sentence structure.

LOL

Your staunchness to support your chosen candidate has made a usually intellectual person as yourself start to assume things of another - usually not smart trait.

Get back to this on your "attack" comment at the end of your post :rolleyes:

Aside from the fact that my dad is an executive type, and is more likely to profit from the Bush plan, as much as most anybody I know, he also owns a couple of small businesses. I was a kid, practically living in my mom/dad's shipping warehouses.

Also, I have a few friends that own their own small-business.

Then you know that they are better off. That or you don't know if they are. In either case the excerpt you copied was wrong.


Fine. "The people's money" When was the last time you had a real say in how it was spent?

The entire point is that it should stay as our money - not the governments.

my ideals that you will are now attacking, I was born somewhat privileged, from a staunchly Catholic family. This is where my conservative side hails from.

The fact that I have done actual missionary work, when I was studying Theology with the Jesuits is where my "softer-side" hails from.

All tempered by the fact that I eventually became an Airman with the USAF, and served during GHW Bush's version of this conflict.

So, what does your support of all this wasted money say about your ideals?

Take a break from your righteous indignation and focus on the points I’ve been making about money being wasted by the government and that more tax cuts are needed. The government is wasteful. Programs need to be taken out of its control and the money left in the hands of the people who earned it in the first place.


I am busy at work right now, so I will revisit the rest of your attacks later.

Nice diversion though - cast a shadow on the messenger, when you don't like the message - I think the last member that was banned because of this forum tried that too.

Attack the messenger? You are no messenger. You are the one claiming to be conservative yet you are the one who used the term "government money". You are the one quoting Buffet as to how he doesn't need the money. And, don't bother with vague threats with "last member that was banned because of this forum tried that too". Its really pathetic.













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lets look at this all from bush's point of view, ALL OF THE DEATHS IN THE PAST 3 YEARS PREVENTED ANY TERRERIST FROM HITTING US AT HOME HERE. Now who wants to go vote bush in for round two of "how to kill almost as many people as hitler and get away with it, because all the soccer moms out there in their H2's are afraid of being killed by someone a world away."

Read up on some real slaughters and get some perspective http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/killers.htm flippent comparison like that.













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Hmmm, it is somewhat ironic that in bush's terrorist induced frenzy to stop terrorism, that he has probably ended up having more people killed than the terrorists would have killed in that period of time, had we just concentrated on making our country safer from within - it's also ironic that he has done his best to take away from us the very rights he says that the terrorists want to destroy.
And in the end, Osama is still at large and we've wasted billions on capturing a worthless dictator who wasn't even a threat to us.
Personally I don't see the difference between spending billions of tax dollars on a worthless war and just handing it over to welfare recipients - at least if it were going to welfare recipients, the money would be spent on something within the U.S.
They might as well have just burned all that money.

The pictures in that video can be viewed in a bunch of different senses. We don't know what was going on at that particular moment in that picture. Those explosions could be from suicide bombers, the Iraqi's with weapons could be Iraqi police or anti-insurgents. The picture of the women with one leg could have very easily been a woman who had her leg blown off by a land mine laid by her own country-men. The pictures are not in context.

Exactly, its not in context. How bout all the crazies running around with rifles, RPGs, and swords? A sane person cannot say that those guys are all cops. Pictures of burning Humvees in the background. Whats in front of that truck? A bunch of guys dancing and having a blast.

No, the point of this video is not right by me.

i didn't ask if it was right. i asked if you understood what the point was.
this is an anti war message, not an anti bush. you jumped so quick in to defence mode you must of missed it.


Exactly, its not in context. How bout all the crazies running around with rifles, RPGs, and swords? A sane person cannot say that those guys are all cops. Pictures of burning Humvees in the background. Whats in front of that truck? A bunch of guys dancing and having a blast.

it doesn't matter the message is still the same. war causes death and pain. you do notice all the americans being burnt and dragged right. and the arabs with missing limbs and holes in them.:shakehead

Hmmm, it is somewhat ironic that in bush's terrorist induced frenzy to stop terrorism, that he has probably ended up having more people killed than the terrorists would have killed in that period of time, had we just concentrated on making our country safer from within - it's also ironic that he has done his best to take away from us the very rights he says that the terrorists want to destroy.
And in the end, Osama is still at large and we've wasted billions on capturing a worthless dictator who wasn't even a threat to us.
Personally I don't see the difference between spending billions of tax dollars on a worthless war and just handing it over to welfare recipients - at least if it were going to welfare recipients, the money would be spent on something within the U.S.
They might as well have just burned all that money.

If you dont spend billions now, cleaning up a disaster the terrorists caused will cost trillions. Spending a buck to save a hundred is alot better.

He killed alot of people, but look at what has happened. Libya has given up on its WMD program. Terrorists left and right are being killed by the boat load. Terrorists are surrendering to Saudi authorities, though I wonder if thats good or bad. Good stuff is happening.

Bad things, yeah troops die. YOu know what, those troops took an oath to die. They are doing thier duty, and that is very important. Supporting the troops and not supporting the war is the same as not supporting the troops. This is what they train to do. This is what they are there for. That being said, your always going to have a bunch that liberal media is going to put on a pedastool and say they did it just for college. Joining the military for college is dumb. Its not a college fund, its national service. War is the troops profession, and you have to support that to support the troops.

And grandma with her leg blown off, who knows when that happend. But I can bet that some collateral damage is better than none. If Bush would have done nothign after 9/11 and decided to isolate the US, we would have been seen as weak. We would have been the Spain of the world because we gave in to terrorists. And that would not have stopped them. They could easily slipped into the US from Mexico. And I bet they really are. Arabs look alot like Mexicans.

Instead, we took the fight to them, something they didnt count on. When the USS Cole was attacked in Yemen, what did the US do? Nothing. The US Navy decided that vessels could not refuel or even approach Yemeni waters. Instead, they heavily instituted at-sea refueling. They cut the Navy off from other ports and restricted refuel points to a select 4 locations. They decreased thier presence.

The first WTC attack, what happened? Nothing. We sent a crippled terrorist to prison. Beirut 1983, almost 300 Marines were killed, and what happened, we pulled out of Lebanon, and the country destabilized for almost 20 more years. Pan Am 103, again nothing. Libya got sued for something like 3 billion dollars. Doubtful if they actually will pay.

Terrorists have lots of examples where countries and governments pulled out of thier interests and further isloated themselves. And all George Bush is doing is waging war legaly. He doesnt have to go to the UN for approval. The UN is not my elected government. Its just a place for diplomats to go and hang out. Nothing gets done. They ignore genocide. They have ignored it for the last 60 years of its existance. My life may have been inconvieninced by the Patriot Act, but I would rather live, even if it means longer check points and searches in an airport or seaport.

i didn't ask if it was right. i asked if you understood what the point was.
this is an anti war message, not an anti bush. you jumped so quick in to defence mode you must of missed it.




it doesn't matter the message is still the same. war causes death and pain. you do notice all the americans being burnt and dragged right. and the arabs with missing limbs and holes in them.:shakehead

I noticed it. And I will tell you that that doesnt bother me. Those men knew the risks. We dont have a draft. Everyone is a volunteer. They knew that signing the contract, I knew it, and everyone else after them will know that too.

Anti-war=Anti-Bush=Anti-troops

sure buddy what ever you say.:screwy:

who is more anti-troop. the guy sending them to get killed over a bunch of lies or the guy who wants them around to protect their borders.

^ you couldnt understand. YOur not an American.

Borders? Thats why we have border patrol and National Guard. Just because the US/Canadian border is just something on a map, doesnt mean there isnt anyone there protecting it.

WTC attacks=Osama=Al Qaeda=Terrorists
ok so let's see here, after the world trade center attacks, Osama was blamed and they went to Afghanistan and waged war on the country...No Osama and Al Qaeda still exists. Money well spent :thumbsup:
Saddam=WMD=Threat to US
The states waged war once again with allegations of Saddam in possesion of WMD. After over a year, no WMD=no evidence of threat to US. Sure the dictator is gone....but there goes another couple of million dollars to waste.

Pessimissm will get you nothing. The world is better off now. Its pussy countries like Canada and Spain that keep terrorists going

I forgot the French

The world is better off now
How so? And better for who might I add?
Its pussy countries like Canada and Spain that keep the terrorists going
I guess bombing these countries would get rid of that probem now wouldnt it?
:rolleyes:

I guess bombing these countries would get rid of that probem now wouldnt it?
:rolleyes:

I never thought of that. With an agressive foriegn policy, I think the US could rid the world of worthless countries. Ill have to forward that to my congressperson.

^ you couldnt understand. YOur not an American.


your right i am not american. i am a canadian. so what that border patrol going do againest a 1000 armed mexicans?

all that is happening is we are making the next gen of terrorists. one day they will have a WMD and they will use it. then how will the powers that be responde. more bombings, invade more countries? any one else see the cicle here?

Armed Mexicans? I can tell you that happens, and if they happen to wander around in Texas, they get killed. So what. The border patrol is well armed too. Plus they are mobile, illegals have thier two legs. No match for a Bronco headed right at them

I never thought of that. With an agressive foriegn policy, I think the US could rid the world of worthless countries. Ill have to forward that to my congressperson.
All humour aside...theres still the first two questions that remain to be answered

i didn't ask if it was right. i asked if you understood what the point was.
this is an anti war message, not an anti bush. you jumped so quick in to defence mode you must of missed it.

The original title of this thread is George's legacy, so yes it is anti-Bush.


I understand the point and I'm certainly not pro-war. I'd much prefer to have our buddies back home and safe. But I am pro-action and I still think we did the right thing by dealing with Iraq. There are pictures og joy and hope that can be posted,too. But much of this forum focuses on the negative in Iraq.

Its good for the economy. It directly benifits the military industrial complex

The original title of this thread is George's legacy, so yes it is anti-Bush.


I understand the point and I'm certainly not pro-war. I'd much prefer to have our buddies back home and safe. But I am pro-action and I still think we did the right thing by dealing with Iraq. There are pictures og joy and hope that can be posted,too. But much of this forum focuses on the negative in Iraq.

I knew I wasnt the only one that advocated action against terror. Of course, Ill still be the only one attacked personally for my views.

I knew I wasnt the only one that advocated action against terror. Of course, Ill still be the only one attacked personally for my views.

Hey, it's been happening to a number if us long before you were here. Just be ready for a shit-fight.

Hey, it's been happening to a number if us long before you were here. Just be ready for a shit-fight.

Its a shit fight for sure! Whackos advocating human rights and decency for terrorists. That cracks me up. Im sure youve been threatened with banning a few times. I know I was last thread. Mods just cant hack critics against them when there is an opposing view.

I look forward to a show down! Ah, shit-fight. Ill use that one again, i like it.

The pictures in that video can be viewed in a bunch of different senses. We don't know what was going on at that particular moment in that picture. Those explosions could be from suicide bombers, the Iraqi's with weapons could be Iraqi police or anti-insurgents. The picture of the women with one leg could have very easily been a woman who had her leg blown off by a land mine laid by her own country-men. The pictures are not in context.

10,000+ Iraqis and 770+ Americans have died as a result of George Bush attacking a country instead of a terrorist organisation.The principal offender in thWTC bombings,one Osama Bin Laden is still at large.Coincidentally the Bin Ladens and the Bushs are buddies from way back.Iraq has been bombed back into the middle ages,and will be a shithole to be fought over by sundry groups of religious fanatics for years.Bush has created a new Vietnam that he cannot possibly hope to control.


Context enough for you Pick,or do you still intend to hide behind your 'it's about terrorists' comforter?

Im an American, and so is Pick. Im sure he cares more about the millions of Americans that can be killed in a single attack then the 10k or so that have been killed in a year. Hid behind the terror comforter, because its a just war. Call it the Crusades or whatever, but this is a fight to the death.

no WMD=no evidence of threat to US. Sure the dictator is gone....but there goes another couple of million dollars to waste.


NOT TRUE

there was a mortar shell fired by insurgents that contained the nerve agent Sarin :nono:

Iraq is a huge country. There is bound to be stuff hidden away. These terrorist rat bastards will accidentally stumble into them and start using them. Should the US leave Iraq, these will be used against different factions. Personally, I say let them kill each other off. Then we can let the French and Germans handle it.

NOT TRUE

there was a mortar shell fired by insurgents that contained the nerve agent Sarin :nono:
Well can you bring up that site again, there was something I wanted to highlight

Are you going to highlight the fact that the gas was so old that it was rendered ineffective. If so, thats not the point.

Before you assume anything, post that link again

What link?

not talking to you, it was directed to FireBball972

Im an American, and so is Pick. Im sure he cares more about the millions of Americans that can be killed in a single attack then the 10k or so that have been killed in a year. Hid behind the terror comforter, because its a just war. Call it the Crusades or whatever, but this is a fight to the death.

Your opinion indicates a sheeplike willingness to swallow whatever cock and bull propaganda your government throws at you....Bush told America that Saddam was an immediate threat. this,as we all know now was not true.Yet he continues to compound lie after lie to try to justify his error.The man had masses of evidence from independant experts that there were no WMD in Iraq,yet he chose to highlight a British report[based on a college kid's flawed thesis] that argued differently.You call this a war?no,it's an invasion,an occupation,a theft of sovereignty and a carve up of resources.This is only a fight to the death if you are an Iraqi.For America,it's just a matter of sacrificing enough troops to seize control of a strategic asset.


Ask yourself this...How many terror attacks have there been since WTC/ How many daft warnings of impending doom have been isssued,and come to nothing?These 'terrorists' are a propaganda exercise to keep America scared while Bush helps himself to whatever takles his fancy.I f you support Bush,you are supporting the biggest terrorist of modern times.

Im with Bush either way. Call him a terrorist all you want. If anyone could prove he was a terrorist, then file a suit and take him to the Hauge. Good luck with that. You could line Bush, Blair, every Isreali Prime Minister alive, if that were true. But it will never happen because its not true.

:sly:
At least it was good sentence structure.Whoop-te-doo.

The one time I had no time to proof-read my typos (typing semi-fast), because, just like I said, I was at work, and busy as hell.

Now back to the topic at hand...Get back to this on your "attack" comment at the end of your post :rolleyes:Okie-doke.

Now back to the topic at hand...(2nd attempt)Then you know that they are better off. That or you don't know if they are. In either case the excerpt you copied was wrong.LOL

My point was you assumed, and you assumed wrong.The entire point is that it should stay as our money - not the governments.Well, although I was for the original attack on Iraq, the extension, and consequent waste of human-life, and our money, is what galls me.Take a break from your righteous indignation and focus on the points I’ve been making about money being wasted by the government and that more tax cuts are needed.So you admit it then? That Bush has been a wastrel with our money?

I won't disagree with you about the tax cuts, but the WAY he's doing it (at the expense of my children, and their children), is utterly irresponsible.The government is wasteful. Programs need to be taken out of its control and the money left in the hands of the people who earned it in the first place. LMFAO

You're sitting here righteously indignant, I might add, about these "wasteful programs", yet have absolutely no remarks against the BILLIONS Bush has spent towards his "war", and the millions he was paying towards the interim Iraqi government who, I might add, are composed of not a few oil-rich Iraqis.Attack the messenger? You are no messenger. You are the one claiming to be conservative yet you are the one who used the term "government money".Still hung-up on terms, I see. If that's all that defines what a conservative is, or isn't for you, then you're shallower than I ever imagined.You are the one quoting Buffet as to how he doesn't need the money.Well? He doesn't, doesn't he?

Look, I have NO problems whatsoever, with these "hard-working" millionaires getting the lion's share of the tax cuts, but the fact of the matter is, these same people are laying-off all these "lazy" (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif) medium-to-minumum-wage workers, so they can get away with their 25-million-dollar Christmas bonuses, and quarter-billion-dollar "severance packages".

These are also the same people that are swindling the US out of its tax-money with their off-shore tax shelters.

Do you REALLY believe they need THAT much of a break, where basically the rest of the country supports the land they are getting rich off of?And, don't bother with vague threats with "last member that was banned because of this forum tried that too". Its really pathetic.That wasn't a threat Yogs. That was a show of dissappointment, especially from somebody I respected, as to how low you can get, when your beloved candidate, the same one that's wasting our money, is being threatened with the facts, of all things.

To the sad little fuckface who landed some anonymous negative rep on me for this thread,please,grow some balls you yellow pile of shit. If I am 'blinded by hate' as you suggest,then it is a hatredof seeing innocent people slaughtered by lying asshholes in the White House.This administration is as bent as a nine dollar note,and I for one won't miss them when the true patriots put them out come November.God bless America,rid her of these liars and murderers.

To the sad little fuckface who landed some anonymous negative rep on me for this thread,please,grow some balls you yellow pile of shit. If I am 'blinded by hate' as you suggest,then it is a hatredof seeing innocent people slaughtered by lying asshholes in the White House.This administration is as bent as a nine dollar note,and I for one won't miss them when the true patriots put them out come November.God bless America,rid her of these liars and murderers.

Yep, got some negative points from this thread too...

Not that I care...It's just childish...must be a Bush supporter.

To the sad little fuckface who landed some anonymous negative rep on me for this thread,please,grow some balls you yellow pile of shit. If I am 'blinded by hate' as you suggest,then it is a hatredof seeing innocent people slaughtered by lying asshholes in the White House.This administration is as bent as a nine dollar note,and I for one won't miss them when the true patriots put them out come November.God bless America,rid her of these liars and murderers.
I take it you're not going to love 4 more years of Bush, then. There's no way Kerry will win.

They are doing thier duty, and that is very important. Supporting the troops and not supporting the war is the same as not supporting the troops. This is what they train to do. This is what they are there for...

Their duty is to protect the United States - I don't see how stomping on the dilapitated military of a third world country that posed no threat to us is protecting us. Iraq was a waste, we could have just continued doing what we were doing in Afghanistan and saved money and lives and our reputation.

My life may have been inconvieninced by the Patriot Act, but I would rather live, even if it means longer check points and searches in an airport or seaport.

And the right for the government to hold you indefinately without access to a lawer or public courts... (until just recently when the Judicial Branch kicked in and noticed that we have a constitution - something the executive branch obviously has no knowledge of).
A government that has no regard for the foundation it was built upon is not a government worthy of guiding a nation.

I take it you're not going to love 4 more years of Bush, then. There's no way Kerry will win.

Let's wait and see.You may be surprised at how few people share your point of view.Bush is not God. :grinno:

editmore gutless anonymous comments in my rep box..

07-14-2004 07:41 PM Lets wait and see. Maybe your Girlfriend will suck my cock

Maybe your boyfriend will ask to suck mine.And I wouldn't bother puting out any more rep points,because you don't have enough reputation of you own to actually change anything. :rolleyes:

Whoop-te-doo.

The one time I had no time to proof-read my typos (typing semi-fast), because, just like I said, I was at work, and busy as hell.

Once again you missed my point. What you said made no sense, but I was commenting on how well you wrote it.


My point was you assumed, and you assumed wrong.Well, although I was for the original attack on Iraq, the extension, and consequent waste of human-life, and our money, is what galls me.So you admit it then? That Bush has been a wastrel with our money? I won't disagree with you about the tax cuts, but the WAY he's doing it (at the expense of my children, and their children), is utterly irresponsible.LMFAO

It’s irresponsible how the entire government from federal to local wastes so much money. That’s what’s irresponsible. It’s not a Bush problem. It’s an entitlement problem.

You're sitting here righteously indignant, I might add, about these "wasteful programs", yet have absolutely no remarks against the BILLIONS Bush has spent towards his "war", and the millions he was paying towards the interim Iraqi government who, I might add, are composed of not a few oil-rich Iraqis.Still hung-up on terms, I see. If that's all that defines what a conservative is, or isn't for you, then you're shallower than I ever imagined.Well? He doesn't, doesn't he?

This war was necessary and will pay dividends for decades to come. Its money well invested – not wasted. It appears that you no nothing more about being a conservative then a definition because you have shown little to no traits of being one.


Look, I have NO problems whatsoever, with these "hard-working" millionaires getting the lion's share of the tax cuts, but the fact of the matter is, these same people are laying-off all these "lazy" () medium-to-minumum-wage workers, so they can get away with their 25-million-dollar Christmas bonuses, and quarter-billion-dollar "severance packages".

To use your own phrase – show me the proof. Who was layed off in order to get 25 million dollar (or any other figure like that) bonuses to hard working millionaires? Did companies make layoffs. Yes. Do some companies overpay their executives? You bet they do. My response is to not purchase their products and not invest in their companies, not increase the tax rate.

These are also the same people that are swindling the US out of its tax-money with their off-shore tax shelters.

That’s a smart thing to do. The government set up this atrocious tax code and I don’t begrudge anyone for using any of its rules to keep their own money. The answer is not to condemn the people, the answer is to change the tax code.

Do you REALLY believe they need THAT much of a break, where basically the rest of the country supports the land they are getting rich off of?

I do not think anyone needs a break. I think its their money. Its not up to the governments to decide how much they need or don’t need. The government should go back to the basics and write up a tax plan to fund those services. They spend to much time using taxes as social engineering and inciting jealousy.

That wasn't a threat Yogs. That was a show of dissappointment, especially from somebody I respected, as to how low you can get, when your beloved candidate, the same one that's wasting our money, is being threatened with the facts, of all things.

In the same vane that I get tired of the pure hatred I’ve been reading on this forum. Using clever synonyms like ‘beloved’ just shows that you understand me very little. I have only one beloved thing in this world and its damn sure not a politician. All politicians are weasels who couldn’t spend a dollar that isn’t theirs and that they don’t have. If you want to wage an argument on the wastefulness of government then get the poles ready Quixote. But, these threads haven’t been about that. Its been about singling out the president and attributing what’s wrong with government solely on his shoulders. That’s disingenuous.

And lastly, it was a veiled threat. “cast a shadow on the messenger, when you don't like the message - I think the last member that was banned because of this forum tried that too” is a show of disappointment? Please.













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You guys are crying about negative rep points in the same sentence that you say you don't care.

For Christ sake! I've got a ton of negative feedback on this forum with comments like "typical idiodic american", "stupid redneck", "dumb fucker" and this is the first time I've brought it up only to show that you're not the only ones getting shit like that.

If you really don't care then don't say anything. :disappoin If you only care that someone said something rude then go to Igor and have him tell you who it was and if its a bannable offense, then oust them.

I think that some protest to much.













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You guys are crying about negative rep points in the same sentence that you say you don't care.

For Christ sake! I've got a ton of negative feedback on this forum with comments like "typical idiodic american", "stupid redneck", "dumb fucker" and this is the first time I've brought it up only to show that you're not the only ones getting shit like that.

If you really don't care then don't say anything. :disappoin If you only care that someone said something rude then go to Igor and have him tell you who it was and if its a bannable offense, then oust them.

I think that some protest to much.
Seriously, I've gotten all kinds of bad rep points. "Stupid typical American shitface" and "get some balls", just to name a few. Get the fuck over it. Not everybody is going to agree with your opinion. And I personally think tha tmost of you are wacko. But whatever.......get over it!

Let's wait and see.You may be surprised at how few people share your point of view.Bush is not God. :grinno:

editmore gutless anonymous comments in my rep box..

07-14-2004 07:41 PM Lets wait and see. Maybe your Girlfriend will suck my cock

Maybe your boyfriend will ask to suck mine.And I wouldn't bother puting out any more rep points,because you don't have enough reputation of you own to actually change anything. :rolleyes:

I din't send you those rep points, but I take that that is a personal attack on me? :disappoin

By the way, I just thought that all of AF should see what its higher ranking members are writing to a person who did nothing to them.........

"YOu yellow pile of shit. Dont you ever send me bad rep again. Ill ban you so fast youll think you just saw Allah"

How come I get no comments for my negative rep points :( ?
:lol: anyways, back tot the topic on hand, I still await to see how this war was not a waste, like the one in Afghanistan